Not to get too far off topic here but don't forget the body guys that hammered out the beautiful bodies for the Indy cars...
But.... they wern't confined to the Indy scene exclusivly.
Guys like Emil Deidt built the beautiful bodies for Reventlows Scarabs.
They built bodies for most of the California 'Specials" that ran in the SCCA and So Cal.
Lesovsky, Deidt, Ewing, Meskowski, Pelly, Kuzma, Epperly, et. al., were the heart and soul of the body design of the 1950's/60's........

Was ANYTHING more sensuous than the Ewing knock off for Dean Van Lines for Eddie Sachs?
Or the Scarab's by Deidt?
Not in my book........
They deserve a book by themselves!

ZOOOM

The things one finds, in a daily newspaper of all things!!!


THE CHARLESTON DAILY MAIL, FRIDAY EVENING, MAY 21, 1948

You'll Blow Mental Gasket Tracing Parts of Racing Car

INDIANAPOLIS, (AP) — You can blow out a mental gasket trying to trace the history of a race car.
Take Car No. 9 at the Indanapolis motor speedway—a likely money winner in the 500-mile race May 31.
H. C. (COTTON) HENNING, Indianapolis m a s t e r mechanic, and George Connor, San Bernardino, Calif., driver and engineer, put it together. Connor will drive it.
Riley Brett built the chassis in 1939 and it was powered originally with a 16-cylinder Sampson engine. Bob Swanson finished sixth with it in 1940.
The engine now in the rebuilt Henning-Connor car is an eightcylinder Miller built for the 1938 race. It was in the car bill Cummings started, only to go out with radiator trouble. Then Ted Horn wheeled it to fourth place in 1939 and 1940 and Chet Miller drove it to sixth in 1941.
If you stop right there, it isn't too complicated. Ask Cotton Henning what happened to the leftover parts of other cars and it gets involved.
"Well," says Cotton, "The chassis our engine came out of is one Paul Russo is driving for Tom Saranoff of Terre Haute, Ind., this year. It's the car Jimmy Jackson ran second with in 1946 and took fifth with last year."
THE ENGINE of the Saranoff car was in Bill Cummings' 1936 front-wheeler that broke the clutch at the starting line and finished sixth in 1937. The engine was then put in a car Chet Miller drove in 1938 and 1939. The second year it was in a three-car wreck that killed Floyd Roberts. Only the engine was salvaged. It was installed in a car that Mike Boyle bought from Harry Hartz and Frank Wearne took seventh money in it in 1940.


Can you follow?

Anyway, it confirms a few of my assumptions, and gives quite a bit of additional info. It's too late :yawn: for a complete analysis today, so I'll get back to that tomorrow.

There are several interesting aspects contained in that article:

1) it gives us a very clear idea of what happened with the 1930 Indy winner, the original Miller-Hartz: it was scrapped!

For many years, I had been riddled by what the (arguably) most authorative source for its racing history, Mark Dees and his "Miller Dynasty", concluded after the 1939 accident: Yet, I could never find a trace of it thereafter!

Now, we have an even more authorative source, its owner/chief mechanic at the time - Mike Boyle may have been the de facto owner and team boss, but it was unquestionably Cotton's team! And more to the point, the source is also chronologically close enough to the time in question as to allow for an accurate memory, as well as far away enough as to avoid a scenario where his assessment could be called premature, as in "Wait a minute, let's look at it again, maybe we can still use it..." And Cotton Henning clearly says: "Only the engine was salvaged"! That is good enough for me.

There's also another aspect in this: it is well known that the original Miller-Hartz was built upon the remains of the 1927 Pete de Paolo front-drive Miller, as detailed by Dees, and also already mentioned by Harold F. Blanchard in "The MoToR", June 1930. Which, of course, means that the car currently parading as such in Historic Racing circles can only be called a "recreation".

Meaning this beauty: http://www.milleroffy.com/miller_pdp_4.jpg, supposedly a 2003 "restoration".


2) the engine talked about in the last paragraph is one of the very first Offenhauser Big Car engines, and it is interesting to see how it already changed from right-hand exhaust to left-hand for the front-drives it powered, and back again to a rear-drive layout! It is also interesting because it makes it possible to trace this particular engine for almost twenty years in front-line racing!

As most of you probably know, Fred Offenhauser started his business in late 1933 by acquiring some of the assets of the Miller bankruptcy auction, and setting up his "speed shop" in LA. In late 1934, he started building his famous Midget engines, and in 1935 turned out the first two Big Car engines for customers Kelly Petillo and Gil Pirrung, who would go on to place first and second in the Indy 500 that year, a debut unparalleled until the advent of the IRL, and the Oldsmobile Aurora in 1997. Yet still, Oldsmobile had almost a full field going for them, while Offenhauser had only those two cars!

We know that Offenhauser numbered Big Car and Midget engines seperately, so this engine here could possibly be #3, but also any other number up to #11, as Fred built nine Big Car engines in 1936. Like the Pirrung engine the year before, this one was meant to go into a front-drive chassis, which is probably the reason why Fred had new patterns made for the engines, which were essentially identical to the latest Miller 4-valve designs, except for the fact that they allowed a reverse exhaust layout. It also seems that a very few engines (incl. the Pirrung) had only two valves per cylinder.

At this point I have to say that I have no idea how this was accomplished, as I have never seen a drawing office, nor a machine shop from the inside! Was the water jacket designed to provide the same cooling for the inlet ports, which would seem a bit of a waste, or was the engine block swapped over from side to side on the crankcase, with provisions for the gear tower on both ends? Somebody know, perhaps one of our Mr. Andersons?

Well, I have been researching this for over one year now, and it's still not entirely clear for me, but what the heck, I'll post it anyhow!

Indy car constructors of the Thirties (10)

Duesenberg (1)

One of the great names of all time in racing, Fred Duesenberg started out as...

Read on at http://www.oldracingcars.info/marques/indy/duesenberg/

Indy car constructors of the Thirties (11)

Duesenberg (2)

Augie's Duesenberg, by contrast, was a...

Read on at http://www.oldracingcars.info/marques/indy/duesenberg/

Indy car constructors of the Thirties (12)

Duesenberg (3)

Duesenberg is always good for a mystery or two, check out Wilbur Shaw at the 1931 Indy 500...

Read on at http://www.oldracingcars.info/marques/indy/duesenberg/

Indy car constructors of the Thirties (13)

Reed & Mulligan

Stanley L. Reed was a power boat racer from...

Read on at http://www.oldracingcars.info/marques/indy/reed-mulligan/

Hi Michael.
Thanks for all your excellent contributions to this thread. Is now a good time to remind you of your above quote (from July 2003)? Does the site exist yet?

Well...

Obviously, I didn't get it started later that year, and I'm afraid it's not going to happen any time soon. Well, at least not in the fashion I was going to do it in 2003, that is! Frankly, I'd still LOVE to do it, but my day has only 24 hours, unfortunately...

If you've followed TNF the last few months, you may have learned that I have recently promised again to work on a website, hoping to have it ready by the end of the year... But, to be honest, even if it will happen this time, it's not going to include an A-Z of racing cars, Indy or otherwise, although I'm hoping to include some tables with a few car specs. It would still be possible to amend that later, but be advised NOT to hold your breath...

One of the reasons I am posting this stuff here is that I am aware of the need for it to be done, and yet another is that I'm trying to get off the hook with my earlier promise...

Indy car constructors of the Thirties (14)

Talbot

Not to be confused with the English and French racing cars of the same name!

Another power boat racer to dabble in car racing during the thirties was...

Read on at http://www.oldracingcars.info/marques/indy/talbot-j/

Indy car constructors of the Thirties (15)

Coleman

The Coleman Motors Corp. of Littleton, a suburb of Denver (CO), was...

Read on at http://www.oldracingcars.info/marques/indy/coleman/

Indy car constructors of the Thirties (16)

Miller (1)

Harry Miller moved from Wisconsin to California around the turn of the century...


Read on at http://www.oldracingcars.info/marques/indy/miller/

Indy car constructors of the Thirties (17)

Miller (2)

Whatever the Schofield managers had in mind to steer Miller (the company) over the rocky roads ahead without Miller (the man) was...

Read on at http://www.oldracingcars.info/marques/indy/miller/

Indy car constructors of the Thirties (18)

Miller (3)

One doesn't know whether to admire Harry Miller for his guts...

Read on at http://www.oldracingcars.info/marques/indy/miller/

fines, you've been busy and are obviously the answer to the title of the Thread.
Thanks for all the good work.

Miscellanous ramblings on Roger Valentine's first post of July 31, 2003 on this very thread.

I always thought that the designers and car builders were a very important and essential element of the motor racing scene. In any really comprehensive attempt to know and understand automobile racing, it is absolutely mandatory and necessary to include them. Likewise the technological development of the cars is a major aspect also. The equipment used in motor racing and the actual track format and venues are always undergoing constant change. Here the sport varies vastly from baseball, golf, or football which are much more stable and static in their format. And more boring too.

It was very remiss that the AAA Contest Board did not ever record the Championship car chassis makes. The problem really dated from 1930 on, when the AAA junk formula came into existence, for with it, began the oddity perhaps of the motor manufacturer being totally different in most cases, from the chassis maker. And with the introduction of the junk formula, the cars were usually given names that had nothing to do with the car's make or marque. This trend had actually begun somewhat in the late 1920s. Here perhaps Cliff Durant can take some advanced prior credit because, as we all know, he even earlier ran Stutz and Miller vehicles under the false labels of "Chevrolet" and "Durant". However, sponsorship money for a racing team could be raised if a sponsor's name or its product was the same as the vehicles' name. Such doings might generate some advertising value and perhaps somehow, a small return for one's financial investment. Using race cars as advertising bill boards was a convenient ploy also, for the car owners, to assert to the IRS that such expenses were actually a business advertising venture, not part of a personal hobby.

SPEED AGE's coverage of the AAA and USAC Championship level racing (i.e. 1950-1958) was somewhat deficient because it never really mentioned, included, or talked about the chassis makes or the car builders. From the very first day that I witnessed a Championship contest (May 30, 1953) I knew that the U.S. passenger car manufacturers did not design or construct the racing cars. So I wondered who did design and construct them, and where did they indeed all come from? At the time and even later, I would have greatly appreciated some background-biographical information or data on the AAA and USAC Championship designers and constructors like Eddie Kuzma, Frank Kurtis, Lujie Lesovsky, Wally Meskowski, A.J. Watson, etc., but little was forthcoming or at hand.

The earlier racing chassis builders of the 1930-1941 era are largely unknown entities so far as their lives and personalities are concerned. Names like Clyde Adams, Herman Rigling, Myron Stevens, Phil Summers, Louis "Curly" Wetteroth, etc. In the case of Ernie Weil, I don't even know his full or proper name! Jack C. Fox's THE INDIANAPOLIS 500, first published in 1967, contains the very earliest information on the AAA and USAC Championship car chassis makes from 1930 to 1966. I don't know where Mr. Fox obtained all this very rare, obscure, important, and most valuable data. Nor do I know exactly how reliable or accurate it all is. But whatever, what Mr. Jack Fox compiled and collected here, is pure gold. However in the U.S. it is an odd fact that during the years 1930 to 1965, no one seemed much concerned about the almost total vehicle make identity effacements or what individuals actually constructed the cars. After World War II (1939-1945) Frank Kurtis, it is true, made a big name for himself (mostly during 1948-1955) and later A. J. Watson (during 1956-1964), but these two were very abnormal exceptions. At the present time, only the expert historical investigator Mr. Michael Ferner, seems seriously concerned about the AAA Championship car constructors of the 1930s and 1940s.

Back in the early 1970s, I wanted a complete and accurate listing of all the AAA National Championship races, along with their winning car makes. I worked on this project for years and finally with the outstanding help and expertise of Ken McMaken, I put something together which Englishman Gordon Kirby published in his PPG INDY CAR WORLD SERIES 1981 annual, on pages 124 to 136. In working on this statistical essay I had utilized some actual eye-witness, I thought, testimony. For example I talked to driver Charles Van Acker (1912-1998) and asked him who had constructed the chassis on his winning car in the Milwaukee 100 of July 27, 1947. Without batting an eye Van Acker told me he himself had put it together. And Art Sparks (1901-1984) said many times, that all his Championship cars had had chassis constructed only by Clyde Adams. But both the Van Acker and Sparks information here is totally incorrect.

So far as Van Acker is concerned, he had actually purchased the chassis from George Lyons and the car had originally been put together by Myron Stevens. With regard to Art Sparks' assertion, in my later conversations with Myron Stevens, he stated that he and Phil Summers had built the 1934 Sparks-Weirick two-man Champ car in early 1934. About three days later after talking to Myron about the 1934 Sparks-Weirick two-man machine, he showed me photographs of the car under construction in his shop, taken in early 1934. Well that was good enough for me! Gene Banning in his book SPEEDWAY, HALF A CENTURY OF RACING WITH ART SPARKS (1983) on page 287, also talks about the chassis make on this machine and concludes it was made by Stevens. The vehicle in question here won the 1934 Mines Field 200 (December 23) with Kelly Petillo and the 1936 Goshen 100 (June 20) with Rex Mays. After the McMaken/Printz list of the AAA Championship winning chassis makes was published in 1981, publicist Ronnie Allyn, sent me a letter stating that we had erred in four instances. Allyn also and quite correctly, stated that the 1934 Sparks-Weirick car was a Stevens and not an Adams. Anyway, it all shows the difficulty in obtaining correct information on the chassis makes, because the AAA itself kept no records on the matter.

The AAA Championship chassis car makes 1930-1955, are just another irritant and headache for a would-be AAA racing historian. On one occasion a man was standing just outside the door of the Old Timer's Trailer at the Speedway, who had been an ex-employee of Harry A. Miller. His name was Lloyd "Shorty" Barnes and he thought he was talking about the year 1936. Barnes was saying that he had been a crew member with Billy Winn (1906-1938) that year, when Winn had won two Championship races at Springfield and Syracuse. My ears immediately gave Shorty full attention. I knew that the year here was actually 1935, but I didn't say anything because I wanted to hear what Barnes was about to say, without his having any interference or misdirection. Barnes said that Winn had a Duesenberg chassis but no motor, while Harry A. Miller, who was then down and out, still had in his possession a 255 cubic inch 4. So Miller and Winn got together and put the 255 in the Duesenberg chassis. I was able later to confirm that the winning 1935 Springfield and Syracuse car was indeed powered by a 255 cubic inch Miller 4, and ran as the "Harry A. Miller Special". But about the Duesenberg chassis part of the story, I never was able to get any collaborative evidence. I still wonder about it's correctness. But still, and only on Mr. Barnes' testimony alone, I have listed a Miller/Duesenberg as the 1935 Springfield (August 24) and Syracuse (September 2) winner.

In fact, not only the car constructors and their machines, but the whole of AAA National Championship racing history 1933 to 1948 itself, remains in a state of hazy obscurity. Back in the early 1970s, by using Catlin's HISTORY and Borgeson's GOLDEN AGE, it was possible to have an idea of major AAA racing activity from 1909 to 1929. And by using the once famous MOTOR (U.S.) annuals, which contained survey articles on the previous year's Championship activity for 1928-1933, one could add on the 1930-1933 AAA Championship seasons. Then there ensued and followed a huge and missing gap for the AAA years, 1933 to 1948. By using the back issues of SPEED AGE, one could start up again in 1949 and continue on for 1950 to 1955. But the 1933 to 1948 era was largely a total blank, except for the Indianapolis 500. There was not even a listing anywhere of the AAA's National Championship races from 1933 to 1948.

Even in the early 1970s, I was still under the mistaken notion that the AAA ran a dozen or so Championship races per annum, in the 1930s and early 1940s. I was quite perplexed for a long while, as to just why I couldn't find them! As my investigations progressed, it took me some years to adjust and wake up to the fact, that it was not so. So much for preconceived ideas! Anyway, one reason for the lack of information on AAA Championship racing during the Great Depression (1929-1939) certainly, is that very few Championship events were actually run. The worst year was 1938 when only two were held, i.e. Indianapolis and Syracuse. Even now, I say, the history of the AAA Championship divison remains largely unwritten for the years 1933-1948. And again the only man, outside of the deceased Mark Dees, who has advanced the knowledge of this very dark era, is Michael Ferner. Michael deserves much credit.

In my nosing around in the late 1970s, looking for AAA and early USAC Championship car makes, I was repeatedly told that the man to consult was Bob Mount. Mount lived in Lebanon, IN and was a florist by trade. I finally made contact with him at the Speedway and he was a gent about the same age as myself. He invited me out to his house, so one night I took him up on it. There he showed me his various notebooks on the AAA chassis makes and we compared notes. As I remember Mount was mostly interested in the cars that had run at the Speedway and it is my present understanding that Bob has long since been deceased. However Mr. Mount was about the only person in the 1970s and 1980s I could find, who was much concerned about the AAA and early USAC chassis makes. My trip to Mount's home, c. 1982 (?) I would guess, was the only time I was ever in Lebanon, IN.

In my travels, during the years 1975-1985, I had some contact with the car constructors Bignotti, Brawner, Dreyer, Halibrand, Kurtis, Kuzma, Lencki, Lesovsky, Stevens, Watson, and even the Englishman Eric Broadley (b. 1928) of Lola cars. If it is proper to include A.J. Foyt because of his Coyotes and Dan Gurney because of his Eagles, then I can add two more individuals to my list. Frank Kurtis was a giant of a man and very tall but remained very trim, while Eddie Kuzma by contrast, seemed a small wiry midget. Kuzma was totally unpretentious. I asked Kurtis why he quit building Indy cars and he replied, "Well the Watson cars starting beating my cars, and rather quickly no one wanted to buy mine." Frank said this without any bitterness and just as an offhand statement of fact. In that estimate, and as a fact, I totally agree. Kurtis was the perfect gentleman and was very courteous to me. Lujie Lesvosky looked like a Russian grand master chess player and was a straight talker. Lujie had worked for Curly Wetteroth before World War II, but I didn't know that at the time I met and talked with him. Otherwise I might have been able to get some real information on Wetteroth. Joe Lencki was still full of fire in his old age and never ever stopped talking or jabbering! I never saw or spoke with Eric Broadley at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, but he use to come to the Michigan International Speedway annually for the CART 500 mile Indy car race, where I talked with him in the garage area.

Another car constructor that I had conversations with was a fellow whose last name was Templeton. I never jotted down his first name, as I thought I would always remember it. Now I can't recall what it was. My best guess is Harry Templeton. Anyway Mr. Templeton asserted that he constructed some of the Sumar team's Championship cars in the 1950s, which Pat O'Connor (1928-1958) had used. However, as it developed, Mr. Templeton had a big beef with author-historian Jack C. Fox. Templeton told me that Fox didn't give him credit for the vehicles he had built in his Indianapolis 500 book, but they were all listed under other constructors! Templeton asked me to talk to Jack as to why he wouldn't correct these errors. I said I would. Later, when I questioned Mr. Fox about the matter, he was not at all sympathetic! Fox replied with emphasis (quote), "He's been pestering me about this for some time. Even if HE DID built the cars, they were merely copies!" Oddly perhaps, I have always thought that Jack Fox here, was at least half right! The McMaken/Printz Championship race winners list does give a Templeton built car, a win at the Darlington 200 held on July 4, 1956, with Pat O'Connor as the chauffeur.

In the summer of 1984, CART official Jan Shaffer, requested that McMaken and myself provide a historical section to the upcoming 1985 CART MEDIA GUIDE. So we then had the opportunity to upgrade and correct our mistaken Championship winning car chassis manufacturers as printed back in 1981. I am currently unaware of anything being incorrect, as regards chassis makes as listed in our 1985 MEDIA GUIDE reckonings, but there is no 100 per cent guarantee of complete accuracy either.

If anyone can supply a more proper name for Ernie Weil, or knows Mr. Templeton's first name, or can throw more light on Winn's 1935 winning car at the Springfield and Syracuse races, I would be most grateful for the information. Sincerely, J. G. Printz

I worked with Wayne Ewing and Kent Fuller building acid dipped pro stock Dodges for a fellow named Dick Landy in southern California. I myself never heard anybody call him "fatboy". Ewing also built dragster bodies for Fuller. He lived in North Hollywood, California. His business card read Wayne Ewing, Racecar Imagineneering, gave his street address in North Hollywood, and no phone number.
A. J. Watson gives Ewing credit for the double nostril nose on the 2nd generation Watson Roadsters with a statement along the lines of "he just did it when we were off racing" there was no formal design or drawing etc. It was also the style he used for his dragster supercharger scoops. He told me he was inspired by a Lockheed test jet (possibly the XF-90 which had twin engines and inlets) not a mid engine F1 Ferrari.
Mario's first rear engine Indy Car was built by Ewing also, the Dean Van Lines Special.
I really doubt if Ewing would care one bit about being remembered for the Indy cars he built, he was far more fascinated with model aircraft engines when I knew him.

Frank Kurtis didn't really retire but faded into a contract with Lockheed Aircraft Corp. to build starter carts for the YF-12 / SR-71 aircraft which was far more profitable than building Indy cars.

Probably Ewing's most famous bodywork is the Greer, Black, Prudhomme front engine dragster. It was built by Kent Fuller, tuned by Keith Black, and driven by Snake Prudhomme. It's well documented on the web if you want to see it.

Thanks, Tom, for your interesting contributions, and thanks John for your nice words - but please don't underestimate your own contribution to the knowledge we have today! You have brought much light into the darkness, not least with your articles here on TNF.



I'm not sure about Templeton (though Harry sounds about right), and Ernie Weil's name I have seen as Ernest A. Weil (but I think I have also seen Ernest C. Weil!), but I can definitely help with Billy Winn's "Harry A. Miller Special": it was indeed a Duesenberg, and I can even track it for several years of its history. Although contemporary reports do not mention the chassis make, I have seen newspaper pictures of it showing the typical Duesenberg frame lines, and an article in late 1935 mentioned that Chet Gardner bought the car from Winn. Pictures of Gardner in it show the special radiator shell, and thus it's possible to identify the car as Lou Moore's 1933 Indy ride:



Lou Moore in 1933 © IMS




Chet Gardner in 1936 © Artemis Images


It was one of the four cars Augie Duesenberg built in 1930, based on the earlier 2-litre single-seaters. As it was entered by Henry Maley that year, it may be presumed that it was originally the car Ira Hall qualified in 1928, and that was wrecked by Jack Petticord in Turn 1, but that is far from certain. It was apparently driven by Deacon Litz in 1930, and possibly also by Chet Gardner and/or Bill Cummings - it may have been the car that won the 1930 Syracuse championship race. In 1931, Litz was again the driver at Indy, but Bill Cummings wrecked it driving relief, and fighting for the lead late in the race, incidentally. Babe Stapp and/or Wilbur Shaw seem to have driven it the rest of the year, and Freddie Winnai drove it a couple of times in 1932, including Indianapolis, before Lou Moore finished third at the 1933 Indy 500, now with a Miller engine. Guy Deulin may have driven it at Mines Field in 1934, before Winn got hold of it. Gardner then bought the chassis, with Winn keeping the 255 CID engine, and Chet ran it initially with a Miller 220, then with a new Offenhauser 255 engine. Gardner had some moderate success with this combination at Indy and various dirt tracks, and also at the Vanderbilt Cup races, where Chuck Tabor finished 11th in 1936 and Chet himself 12th the following year. After Gardner's death in September of 1938, it was entered one more time at Indy by his widow the following year, as #57, but no driver made a qualifying attempt, if it actually ever appeared at the track that is! I have no idea what happened to it after that.

I, too, am under the impression that the information in the Jack Fox book(s) is the earliest data on Indy Car chassis manufacturers for the period mentioned, and like John Printz I feel that this data is pure gold for the researcher. However, there's a snag involved with this, as I have discovered while trying to enlarge and improve on this bonanza. I can't be sure, but I believe this information was collated, perhaps in collaboration with IMS historian Bob Laycock, from filled-out entry blanks and/or IMS "Technical Committee Data" sheets. The former are filled out by the respective entrant, and usually include engine data like bore and stroke, "name of car", "model", year of manufacture, weight, colour, race number and AAA registration number. I suspect that the engine data was subsequently checked by the Technical Committee, along with several other items such as weight, wheelbase, track etc., while other information from the entry blank (which it was not possible to measure) was merely recorded for posterity, i.e. in order to check if car and registration number were in accordance. However, over the years there may have been variations as to the procedure as well as to the amount of info on the entry blank and/or TC data sheets.

There are several potential problems arising from this procedure: for one thing, it was apparently perfectly possible for the owner of a, say, Miller car to describe his chassis as a Duesenberg on the entry blank, if he so wished, and I suspect that a scenario of this ilk has happened on at least one occasion. Far more troubling than such a rather eccentric way of obscurantism is another problem: during the thirties, most cars were specials in almost every way, meaning they were generally built from parts sourced from various other cars, some of the racing and some of the stock type, and perhaps some specially fabricated items from one or two of the emerging "speed shops". The owner/entrant was now faced with the problem to describe his car in one or two words on the entry blank, and from the "results" of this procedure in the Jack Fox book one can sense the different approaches to this conundrum by the different entrants: some described the source of the frame, some the speed shop that hammered out the body, and some apparently simply duplicated the engine information, i.e. the entrant of a car built from parts of a multitude of "donor cars" and by perhaps a multitude of speed shops/mechanics too, chose the easy way out and declared his "XYZ Special" to be of a "Model A Duesenberg" or "Fronty-Ford" type or model, according to its engine!

The result is a hotchpotch of information, and a goldmine for the researcher - but hardly "official" data on car/chassis manufacturers. Yet the trouble is, exactly that's the way this info is treated these days, as a sort of official source for Indy 500 car makes, when it's actually just the raw fodder for further research! And, on top of that, the info is quite unreliable too, with many cars changing their "make" back and forth, like the case I recently demonstrated with the ex-Cooper front-drive. Quite obviously the result of different entrants/owners giving different information on the entry blank, and this info going straight and unchecked onto the TC data sheets!

Apart from the confusion caused by these anomalies, the result of this procedure is a number of quite ridiculous Indy Car "makes" like Whippet and Willys-Knight (which, by the way, are accorded to the selfsame cars to boot!), and a lot of, say, Duesenberg chassis that weren't really Duesenbergs but specials built from Duesenberg (and other) parts, while some of the "works" Duesenbergs are given different chassis names because of components that were outsourced to one of the aforementioned speed shops. In short: a mess!

Nosing around a bit, trying to get a clearer picture of the fate of the four two-man "speedway" Duesenbergs of Augie D. (as opposed to the two "semi-stock" Dueseys of Fred D.), I found some interesting information about Henry W. Maley who, according to a "MoToR" article in 1930, was jointly responsible with Augie Duesenberg for the building of these cars, presumably by contributing the "dough" to enable Augie's speed shop to commence construction. Maley was heir to a fortune made in the lumber industry by his eponymous grandfather, and executive of the Maley-Wertz Lumber Co. in Evansville (IN), but while his companion in this company was running for office in his spare time, Maley was more interested in fast cars - and fast women, it seems! His marital problems provided news fodder for several years, including a "kidnapping" of his wife and son for an extended automotive trip through Indiana at "a furious pace", during which he was apparently seeking reconcillation. On March 23 in 1935, Maley and an at first unidentified "auburn haired woman companion" were killed in a road accident near Fowler (IN), the reason for the accident given merely as "excessive speed" (the speedometer was apparently "locked at 80 mph" when the wreck was examined). The woman was later identified as the estranged wife of a US army officer. By that time, Maley had already disposed of his interests in his former racing team, which was eventually taken over by Lou Moore to win the Indy 500 five times between 1938 and 1949.

In 1930, the four cars were officially entered by three different entities, but apparently ran pretty much as a team effort. Only three of them qualified at Indy (and all of them amongst the top ten in speed), but what happened to the fourth is less clear - most statistics show the car as a DNQ with no driver assigned, perhaps it couldn't be readied in time. There's a strong possibility that it was "earmarked" for Freddie Winnai, who ended up driving relief in one of the semi-stock Duesenbergs. Freddie had been 8th in the final 1929 AAA National Championship points, driving a Duesenberg, and that was probably the reason why the other team car was carrying #8 in 1930. For some reason, however, the #8 car was assigned to Babe Stapp at Indy, leaving Winnai out in the cold. Stapp was more experienced and held in somewhat higher regard by the racing fraternity, so the substitution makes sense. Apparently, Winnai had driven a #8 Duesenberg to a 3rd place finish at the Langhorne 100-miler on May 3, although it is not exactly clear if it was the same car that Stapp drove at Indy - it may have been a single-seater, perhaps one of the 1927 "lowline" cars as driven by Winnai in 1929. In the Phil Harms box scores, this entry shows up as a "Freedom Oil Special", named after a Pennsylvania Oil company - the only other mention of a "Freedom Oil Special" I could find was for Louis Schneider at the Toledo 100-miler just three weeks later, and a day after qualifying had begun at Indianapolis, although it's not certain the car actually appeared in Ohio. Given the later happenings at Altoona, where Winnai drove Schneider's new two-man "Bowes Seal Fast Special", it is even possible that Freedom Oil was a short-lived sponsor for the Schneider entry, before Bowes Seal Fast (an Indiana company) stepped in. Schneider had already qualified at Indy the day before the Toledo event, while Stapp in the #8 Duesenberg did not qualify until three days later.

So, it's probably reasonable to assume that these pictures show the cars at their first competitive outing, the Indy 500 qualifying:



#8 Babe Stapp, entered by Augie Duesenberg, colour blue/silver, engine capacity 2336 cc, qualified May 28 (10th fastest) - the riding mechanic in the actual race was apparently J. M. McCormick




#12 Deacon Litz, entered by Henry Maley, colour cream/gold, engine capacity 2458 cc, qualified May 28 (8th fastest), riding mechanic Lloyd "Shorty" Barnes (he's probably STANDING in the cockpit! ) - in the background we see #8 again, apparently with chief mechanic Cotton Henning next to it, and that's Freddie Winnai in the overalls standing next to #12, and maybe Mr. Maley to his right?




#18 Chet Gardner, entered by James Booth, colour green, engine capacity 2458 cc, qualified May 24 (7th fastest) - riding mechanic in the race was possibly Chet's brother Ray, and in the background we can see Skinny Clemons's "Hoosier Pete", driven by Rick Decker, and apparently the "Romthe" Studebaker of J. C. MacDonald


All pictures © Artemis Images


The latter car, named the "Buckeye Special" and officially entered by various individuals during a time span of several years, was actually owned/sponsored by an Eastern Ohio business- and sportsman by the name of Gibson Bradfield, coming from a family that had made its fortune in tobacco, grocery stores and banking. Bradfield himself was a noted motor boat racer, and at one time was said to have the 1925 Indy 500 winning engine in his 151 CID class hydroplane. After retiring from active competition, he served several years as the president of the APBA (American Power Boat Assoc.). Born April 30 in 1892, he died on March 10 in 1959 after a short illness. The "Buckeye Special" Duesenberg was probably the same chassis that was driven by Howdy Wilcox and Joe Boyer in their fatal accidents at Altoona in 1923 and '24, respectively. In 1926, it was fitted with an experimental two-stroke supercharged Duesenberg engine, but crashed yet again.

After the promising showing in qualifying, all three cars were out of the '500' within minutes of the start. Chet Gardner didn't even make it through Turn 1, having spun in front of three dozen other cars he hit the inside wall hard enough to retire on the spot. Babe Stapp stopped on three consecutive laps to try to fix a carburettor problem, losing several laps in the process before the race got going properly. Coming off Turn 3 a few laps later, he was confronted with the spinning "semi-stock" Duesenberg of Pete de Paolo, who had handed the controls over to relief driver Fred Roberts after only eight laps. Stapp hit Roberts hard enough to render retirement for both cars. Running just behind these two, Marion Trexler lost control of his Lycoming Special, and was "collected" by Deacon Litz in similar fashion. The only "works" Duesenberg now left in the race was that of rookie Bill Cummings, another "semi-stock" racer based on the famous Model A Duesey. Cummings had been a prominent independent dirt track racer in the Midwest, but was hardly known outside of Indiana and a couple of neighbouring states. On May 3, he had gone to Langhorne in Pennsylvania for his first AAA start, and caused quite a stir by smashing the lap record in qualifying, and then leading every lap of the 100-mile National Championship race on the ultra-tough dirt track circle. A few days later, he was signed by de Paolo to drive the second Duesenberg team car, and on the Monday before the big race qualified sensationally with the 4th fastest time overall, more than twenty seconds faster than de Paolo, and faster than all the "speedway" Duesenbergs. Almost needless to say, he was also far and away the fastest of all the "semi-stock" cars at the Speedway. During the 500 miles, he ran comfortably in the top ten all day, except for a short relief stint by Fred Winnai in the car, and ultimately finished 5th. After the race, he was now third in the National points standings, with 369 markers behind Billy Arnold (600) and Louis Schneider (415).

Good! Good! Good!

Well with Shorty Barnes' eye witness testimony and Mr. Ferner's detailed research, I think everyone can assert without any further doubts, that the vehicle which won the 1935 AAA Championship races at Springfield and at Syracuse, was indeed a hybrid Miller/Duesenberg. Knowing that, I will again be able to sleep at night. It thus follows that Billy Winn never drove the Miller/Duesenberg hybrid at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. Mr. Barnes also told me that for 1936, Winn replaced the Duesenberg chassis with a new one constructed by Ernie Weil. Such was the vehicle, I believe, that Winn drove at Indianapolis in 1936 and 1937; and also at both Vanderbilt Cup races for 1936 and 1937. I had always been afraid that Winn's vehicle, used at Indianapolis in 1936 was perhaps his also his 1935 Springfield and Syracuse winner. Obviously Winn's 1936 Indianapolis mount didn't sport a Duesenberg chassis. Now we know because of Michael, that Chet Gardner drove the ex-Winn owned Duesenberg chassis at Indy in 1936, i.e. the exact same one that Billly had used to win at Springfield and Syracuse in 1935. Anyway I have wondered about all this for years and am very elated that Mr. Ferner has cleared it all up for me.

Michael's further remarks about the "Junk Formula" Duesenbergs and about the Jack Fox chassis designations are interesting, informative, and learned.

I have always wondered if the Indianapolis Motor Speedway during its (1909-1955) AAA days, kept their own records and had their own tech sheets, which were quite apart and distinct from those of the AAA Contest Board itself. And if so, has any of this material survived. Mr. Donald Davidison certainly could answer that question. I myself never attempted to examine anything directly owned by the IMS or USAC. The Speedway itself made it almost impossible for anyone to look at or see any of it's past and surviving race record information. McMaken had considerable problems when allowed to do so, and Bob Laycock even accused him, later to me, of outright theft. I absolutely do not believe that. But its a good example of what can happen when one tries to do a little basic research. I could also cite my own case, about supposedly providing CART with "totally made up" data in 1985. And it would very interesting if such AAA era Speedway tech sheets had a line or space for the car make. Very good questions indeed, but I myself have no information about such matters. But Mr. Ferner above post of October 10, 2010 certainly raises all these basic questions.

I had many discussions with both Mr. Fox and Mr. Laycock but I don't remember them ever mentioning each other. I think that Mr. Fox's chassis make designations may have been mostly from his own efforts and investigations, as remarkable as that may seem to be. Fox deserves much credit if that is so. Jack also was VERY CONCERNED about the paint jobs and colours of the past Champ-Indy cars and I was present more than once, when he questioned individuals about such matters, even though the car in question went back more than 30 years in the past! Jack kept a small notebook with him at all times, and jotted down immediately, what data he had just collected on the spot!

It gratifies me deeply that you will be able to sleep again at night; John but please stop here for a moment: the car Billy Winn drove at the two Vanderbilt Cup races was a single-seater, which is well documented by a number of pictures of the events! This car was apparently also built by Ernie Weil, and it was the same car Billy drove to win the 1937 Syracuse National Championship 100-miler and several other races at Milwaukee, Atlanta and probably other tracks as well in those years. I'm not exactly clear about when it was built, maybe in 1935 or 1936, or maybe it was an even older car with a previous history unknown to me. I'm also unclear on what happened to Winn's cars after his death, the two cars built by Ernie Weil and the 1930 Sampson that he had bought in 1937 and which was driven at Indy that year by Billy Devore for him. I think one of the cars (perhaps the single-seater) ended up with Bill Corley in 1940, to be driven by Wes Crawford at Indy that year (DNQ) and also Billy Devore, Paul Russo and possibly Bill Holland. After the war, Corley campaigned two former Indy winners, the 1935 Kelly Petillo car rebuilt as a single-seater, and Lou Moore's 1938 car for Floyd Roberts.

To Dear Michael and all other interested parties;

WINN'S 1936-1937 MILLER/WEIL CAR. My current thinking on the matter is that Winn took the Miller 255 out of the Duesenberg chassis and installed it in his new 1936 Weil chassis. Then this new vehicle combination, in a two-man car guise, was used by Winn at Indianapolis in both 1936 and 1937. In another body format or configuration, this same 1936 Weil chassis, ran as a single seater at the Vanderbilt Cup races of 1936 and 1937; and at the Syracuse 100 on September 12, 1937. Billy modified the Weil built car as proved useful and perhaps expedient, for the different type of races and their varying formula requirements. Maybe, when run as a single seater, there was a real weight loss advantage of some sort. Anyway I don't think that Winn's altering of his Miller/Weil machine for given and altered sets of circumstances, is at all implausible or improbable. Such anyway in my current understanding or theory about the 1936 Miller/Weil machine. It may certainly contain some totally gratuitious assumptions, but AAA data for the period 1933 to 1948 is very hard come by. It's not impossible that Winn's new Miller/Weil was actually put together in late 1935, as some sources mentioned a new Winn owned "Miller" which cost him $10,000 in August 1935. It almost has to be the same car.

Lurking in the wings, I think, was always Harry A. Miller, as Winn and Miller joined forces and linked up somewhat beginning in mid-1935. Winn was among the six pilots originally named as the drivers of the new 1935 Indianapolis Ford-Miller front drives. The others nominated being George Barringer, Cliff Bergere, Peter DePaolo, Dave Evans, and Ted Horn. Winn's connection with Miller prevented Billy from making the 1938 Indianapolis starting lineup. Harry's new advanced "Art Nouveau" styled 1938 vehicles were not tested and/or well prepared, and Winn as a driver with the team, got caught and could not qualify an example.

THE 1936 AND 1937 AAA CHAMPIONSHIP FORMULAS. The 1936 Vanderbilt Cup (October 12) race was an endeavor to put the AAA Championship speedway cars in direct competition with European Grand Prix cars. Since most of the European equipment were single-seaters, the AAA Championship ruling of requiring only two-man cars had to be waved to have any race at all. The 1936 Vanderbilt Cup event was the first AAA Championship contest allowing single-seat racing cars to compete, since the 1930 Bridgeville 100 of July 4. At all the other 1936 AAA Championship races, there were just four total, required that the vehicles be two-man cars. However now the riding mechanics were totally barred from riding in them in the 1936 Championship level dirt track races, because it was now deemed too dangerous to put them at risk in this manner. As such only two 1936 AAA Championship contests are directly involved here, i.e. the Goshen (June 20) and Syracuse (September 15) 100 mile races.

For the 1937 AAA Championship season, single seat cars, could run in the Championship dirt events. However the Syracuse 100 run on September 12 was the only Championship dirt surfaced race for 1937. Here both the two-man cars and the single-seat jobs were allowed to run together. I believe that in some AAA non-Championship events staged in the early 1930s at the Oakland and Langhorne tracks, both single seat and two man cars competed against each other on occasion. That may have been the case also at Milwaukee in the mid-1930s. In 1937 also all three of the season's AAA National Championship races, i.e. Indianapolis, Vanderbilt Cup, and Syracuse, allowed the use of superchargers.

JAMES M. "BILLY " WINN (1906-1938). Winn was a starter in four Indianapolis 500s, i.e. 1931, 1932, 1936, and 1937 and was a relief driver in the 1933, 1934, 1935 and 1938 races. In 1933 Billy relieved Wesley Crawford (1901-1961) for circuits 122-147; for 1934 he took over for Shorty Cantlon for laps 39-76 and also Cliff Bergere on laps 131-141, and in 1935 he piloted Shorty Canton's car for laps 67-129. For 1938 Winn relieved Ronnie Householder (1908-1972) in one of the new Joel Thorne cars for laps 139-154. Winn was actually piloting the car when it retired with engine problems after 154 circuits. Winn's highest ranking in the 500, among his four starts, was 9th in 1932. Winn's account of his first 500 in 1931 was (quote), "The 1931 race was lost due to an explosion. I blew up at 300 miles."

However the Cantlon-Winn combination placed 6th in 1935. Billy described his 1935 Indy event as such (quote), "That was a half and half car Shorty and I drove. The chassis belonged to him. I owned the motor, and we borrowed the gasoline." As poor as his Indianapolis record is, Winn was always ranked among the top dirt track aces during 1935-1938, with such stars as Bill Cummings, Mauri Rose, and the young new upstart, Rex Mays.

Winn was a better than average AAA Championship driver and I think it would be very good if his circumstances during the 1930s could be cleared up in a little more definite fashion. James M. Winn was a native of Kansas City, MO and began his racing at the Riverhead, Long Island (New York), Fairgrounds' 1/2 mile dirt track oval in the mid or late 1920s, i.e., not long after Billy quit school. Here he is said to have been under the tutelage of driver Bob Robinson (1898-1930). The earliest newspaper reference to Winn that I can find is dated June 26, 1928, where he is stated to have entered races to be staged at the Warren Fair grounds (PA) on July 4th. The article states that Billy was just recently married and had just recorded recent victories in races at Riverhead, Long Island and at Ho-Hokus, NJ.

Winn's first start in the AAA Championship division was at Indianapolis in 1931. Billy was primarily known as a "big-car" pilot and was long remembered for being able to "mix it up" and stay with the European contestants at the 1936 Vanderbilt Cup event in his very diminutive and unimpressive looking dirt car (Miller/Weil). At the Syracuse 100 of September 12, 1937 Winn posted a new record clocking of 1:08:34.71 (87.49 mph) which long remained the record there, even in the post World War II era. It was finally lowered by Jack McGrath (Offenhauser/Kurtis) on September 6, 1952 with a posting of 1:07:21.64 (89.224 mph).

After marrying Joe Russo's widow, originally Miss Helene Yockey from Detroit, Winn stated his occupation as a furniture store executive and for 1935-1938, Winn listed his residence as Detroit, MI. Billy was a very popular pilot and always sported a flaming red shirt and helmet when in competition. Winn died after an accident at Springfield IL (i.e. Illinois State Fair), in a non-AAA Championship 100 miler run on August 20, 1938, when a tire blew on the 4th lap. The car overturned and Winn was then thrown clear, but suffered a fractured skull, internal injuries, and never regained consciousness. He died during the night of August 21.

Winn was the winner of four AAA Championship contests, i.e. the 1934 and 1935 Springfield 100s and the 1935 and 1937 Syracuse events. At the 1935 Syracuse 100 Winn won from the pole, having posted the fastest qualifying trial of 42.88 secords or 83.955 mph. For the 1936 AAA Championship season Billy was eliminated by mechanical ills at Indianapolis, the Vanderbilt Cup, and at Syracuse, but placed 5th in the Goshen 100. Winn's highest AAA Championship seasonal rankings were 5th in 1935 and 10th in 1934.