Amon is being done to death here, and he never won a title! But Jack Brabham did and he did so three times, in each of them having a significant contribution to the engineering and design of the car.
He even persuaded Repco to build an engine along lines he felt would do the job in 1966, and was right.
On the circuit, however, he was no Moss or Clark, apparently. Or was he?
Who's got a view on this?

While we're at it, let's put in an appropriate picture... 1955, Port Wakefield, South Australia (note the really inviting background scenery), winning his first Australian Grand Prix in a car he had raced in the British GP earlier in the year.
The word around at the time in England was: "Here comes Jack Brabham round the bend!" And the reply: "Oh, and which end of the car is first this time?"
Or so it says in one of these books I have here, probably 'All But My Life"



I don't think the car finished any other races with Jack driving, maybe one at Orange. He had put it together himself at Coopers, stuffing the 2-litre Bristol inline 6 into a little sports car made for a Climax 4, and with a central seating position had himself a GP car.
He had his luck... Reg Hunt broke a rocker or something in the Maserati that was quickest car there, but it only counts at the chequer...

Well, I'll say what is expected of me- Moss considered himself to be better. But I like Jack very much (as if anyone cares!). I think Jack's great advantage was his love for machinery (I guess we have to thank J. Cooper for that), he understood driving allright, but he knew how to make the car to suit him. I've read Moss comment of his Warrwick Farm performance in very positive light- here's the starting point too (somebody pleaaase enlighten me on the matter). I've also read about Cooper, Jack and Bruce McLaren putting cars together, sipping ales. Come to think of it, Cooper had a good nose for drivers, he ensured himself drivers that understtod the cars, and were not very likely to break them apart in 'the heat of the battle'. Thanks to Bernie we'll have no more of that!

Later on he had Rindt in his team... not necessarily a car-saver. But Jack's devotion to the car and knowing the car, I'm sure, goes back to his speedway days. He won lots of events with a car with an air-cooled twin JAP engine.

Jack Brabham, to me, was a true "blue collar" racer.
He was as connected to the car, as grease to wheel bearings.
He lived to drive sideways and as everyone soon found out, he had a very wide car. His later relationship with Ron Tauranac was made in heaven. Jack was a "car friendly" driver and Ron built "driver friendly" cars!!!
How could they lose??? But, I think during the late '60's, Jack was on the home voyage of his career and the trip took longer than expected. Every year was supposed to be Jack's last.
1970 was an especially good year for "Black Jack" fans, the old man wasn't going anywhere without a fight. I think he surprised a lot of people that year.

I always liked Jack!!!

Far from being jingoistic/patriotic/etc, you'd have to say Jack was amongst the best, both from a driving perspective but clearly and obviously from a mechanical and engineering perspective.

What he achieved in terms of constructing his own cars and winning will almost definately never be achived again for a variety of reasons, not least because of money.

That he also did it at a time when all of us here regard as being against the best drivers ever is just another point.

What burns me is that he probably doesn't get the recognition of being three time world champion. He is streets ahead of Hakkinen yet statistically they probably rate close to each other.

Like Fangio, some of his most ferocious - or is it tenacious - races came at the end of his career. Doggedly hanging on to beat Rindt at Monaco, so close to the limit that he slipped up... running out of fuel within sight of the line in the British GP.
Yet another consideration: His attitude to Gurney in 63 to 65 saw him giving Dan the best as though he felt Dan would make the most of it. Such a shame they didn't do better in those years. That Spa loss must have hurt them deep inside!
And as for his relationship with Ron Taurenac, that goes back further than just the MRD days, they were close in Australia in the mid-fifties, too.
Don't forget that he won at places like Monaco and the Nurburgring as well as at Silverstone and Rheims, and didn't I see in the Solitude thread that he won there in 1963?
He also won at Bathurst, but against lame opposition after a problematic practice day, at Warwick Farm he beat FJ... that was a drivers' circuit... Longford he made McLaren work for that AGP something severe, copping interference from Phil Hill.
And much of this against a backdrop of being a prophet who would never be accepted in his homeland. Sure, some accolades went his way, but nothing like he would get today. In this, he helped greatly in making motor racing more publicly acceptable in Australia.

Surely Brabham (just the name....) must rank way up there on the list of most under rated that we did to death a few weeks back. The guy won a hat trick of crowns in three different eras, he was about the first to get to grips with 1.5litres and mid-engines, the first to succeed with the new 3 litre catagory and the first to truely combine big tyres and wings - just look at the difference in the machinery between his first and last GP win..... yet how many people have him in their personal top 10 "best" drivers list, most have GV and many Amon but Jack gets forgotten.

Always going sideways, as at Goodwood last year when it bit back.......

The first time he drove that McLaren, at Adelaide, he was asked what it was liked. "The McLarens never handled when we raced against them, and this one's the same!" he said.

I don't suppose Queen Mother knows much about motor racing, but I think he recieved knighthood (OBE- as Moss did). So, please reffer to him as 'Sir Jack'.;)
'Nemo propet in patria' i.e. 'Nobody is prophet in his contry' as Romans would say it.

Jackie Stewart once used an analogy to describe Sir Jack's ability...he said that Brabham could paint a perfect reproduction of a Picasso if someone showed him how to do it. So I take that to mean, in Stewart's view, that Sir Jack may not have been very imaginative in figuring out how to drive a race car but once he figured out a way around a circuit he could execute it rather flawlessly.

Isn't that how races are won? Putting in consistent laps, not necessarly the quickest, doing the same thing in each turn over and over again with a minimum of mistakes.

What impresses me most about SJ is his performance in 1970. 44 years old, ancient by race driver standards, and he's running as fast or faster than the most talented youngsters of the day. Wow.

Dave

Jackie must have nicked it from Moss' 'All but my life'. As I gather, the same was said of Bruce McLaren.
As can be seen from another thread I used him as example of sportmanship we miss today. On NZ GP he lent Moss a halfshaft, and as Moss said- 'He'd have helped put it on if I'ad asked him.'.
There's a great photo of him in 'Cruel Sport', brooding after his cars first outing (a mechanical failure has ended it).

Don't forget that with just a little more luck on his side, Jack could have won the world championship in 1967 and 1970. Even with five world titles under his belt I would bet that the British journos in particular still wouldn't rate him!
He also, as Ray points out, tossed away a couple of years of his own career to help Dan Gurney
And Jack has told me more than once that the biggest mistake he ever made was letting people convince him he was too old for GP racing and should retire. He says now, looking back, that he had a few more good years left in him.

And why not? Juan Manuel was 46 when that Rouen photo was taken, and his best was yet to come.
As for Jack and Fangio, they met again in 1978 at Sandown Park, JMF in a W196 (about which I could wax lyrical) and Jack in the 1966 car.
I spoke to him on that occasion, and he said: "It gives you a lot of heart to see him drive like that at his age."
I know I've posted this before, but there are some new boys on the block... twelve years later, when Jack was that age, he was invited to a Brabham day at a circuit in England. The innocent owner of a BT36 let him use his car for a few demo laps, and Jack was very pleased. Or at least, you'd think so... he didn't stop when the flag was hung out... or for the next three laps... and lapped seconds quicker than the owner.
Just as Fangio did back in the early sixties, when he jumped into a Brabham some Argentinian encouragement team had bought, no helmet, no racing clobber, just into the car and under the lap record!

Brabham was one of those drivers who didn't have the ultimate speed of some of his rivals but who achieved superior results by his ability to develop a car and by sheer determination. It is easy to forgat that sheer speed (by the standards of the very best) is neither necessary nor sufficient for a successful racing driver. The subject of a certain long running thread is an example of the converse to Brabham.

It is significant that he was world chsmpion twice at he end of the 2.5litre formula and again at the start of the 3litre formula. He won no championship races under the 1.5litre formula. Was this because he was better with more powerful cars, or because he subjugated his own driving career to that of Dan Gurney from '63 to '65?

I believe he went through three different periods of stress in the 1.5-litre F1:
First, the Ferrari year, clinging to Cooper after their previous successes and wearing the problems the Brits brought on themselves.
Then, upreparedness as 1962 came in led to being off the good books at Climax.. Clark had arrived and was showing speed that meant the C-C boys would give him the best engines.
Finally, getting Dan into the car probably helped getting Coventry-Climax back on side, but for Jack it meant ensuring that Dan had the best... and teams weren't either financed or operated then as today. There were no teams with two number ones... in fact, when Chapman announced this of Clark and Hill for 1967 it was a revolution.
His preparedness for 1966 showed that he had learned the lesson of 1961, and it stood him in good stead for two years.
The really interesting thing is his competitiveness in 1970. But once again we must look at his team mates for 68 and 69... were they again getting the treatment Dan did? I think so...

From Somewhere on the Road in America....

Black Jack was Damn Good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think he was unappreciated and largely overlooked since few realized that it was not just the car in 1959 & 1960...

He is one of those I have always enjoyed watching. Personally, I was delighted when he won the WDC in 1966. He earned it and the moments at Zandvoort before the start were great....

Ciao!!!

Don't seem to have one of the beard, so during the race will have to do... sliding round the dunes of Zandvoort:

nearly as good as the world champion when twice his age and in his final season. can't say that about most retirees.
And whats this about him not being quick? nonsense.
How does anybody get to win three w/champs without being quick, and being the only season long competitor to Rindt in his last year.
Black Jack was only as quick as he needed to be.

Talk about quick! He ran off with his secretary (I actually typed 'secretarty' and had to fix it!) when he was about seventy... the boys don't love him for that!

Jack Brabham had a big influence in race car design here
in the states after he ran a rear engined car at the Indy
500 Mile Race.They might still be running front engine
roadsters today if Jack had not run the 1961 Indy race in
a Cooper-Climax Special. He had a 9th. place finish with
an engine with -84.3 cubic inch displacement difference
from Offenhauser Engine.
Jochen Rindt ran a RB-Repco Brabham in the 1968 Indy 500
Race.

With kind regards,
Gary Trobaugh

Bingo! This is a great analysis of Jack. He was a great driver and much like Carroll Shelby was, not by pure speed by knowledge of cars and having the talent to develop them. Although Shelby was known more as a car builder, he was a damn fine racer too before a heart attack prematurely ended his career. I think I read somewhere that Carroll won some 40 SCCA races in the span of a couple of years.

From what I have heard, Jack was a great oval driving talent too. I think it was total BS where Motorsport ranked him in their top 100--not in the top 60 from what I remember.

Sorry, I've been away, but I just had to comment on this one. Black Jack was a great driver, perhaps not in pure native speed, but in the sense that he could set a car up like few others (unlike numerous other names we could mention), AND he was a racer, meaning that he would contest every position with every driver he came in contact with. Jim Clark was faster, no doubt, but Clark rarely raced anyone. When he had the fastest car he dominated like few others, when he didn't, he didn't really put much on the line,did he. Fearless John, not known for waxing eloquent about many drivers, rates Jack as one of the great racers, and that's good enough for me. Jack was a tiger always. FJ once said of Clark, "he was a tiger, when he knew he had sharper teeth." Jack got the very best from his considerable ability, and while that third title may have been the result of a gift from Dragoni, Jack still wasthe man who grabbed the opportunity and didn't let go. He is one of the most underrated drivers of all time, and his poor placing was one of the reasons I considered the Motorsport "Top 100" to be the most ridiculous list ever assembled on this or any other planet.

Fast One,

how many races can you name whenJim Clark didn't "put much on the line". I'll be astonished if I can't name more that he won when the Lotus was not the best car.

Your evaluationo Brabhamis prety good, though.

While Clark certainly put it on the line occasionally, I agree that it wasn't as often as many of his contemporaries. Look at Longford in 1965. Phil Hill passed him coming off the Long Bridge. Clark was in this slipstreaming battle all the way, mostly with Graham Hill, but when the chips were truly on the table, the others would get by.
His race-long run with Matich a week later at Lakeside certainly took guts, too, but his Warwick Farm drive was an eye opener in this context.. after some headstrong action like this:



That's G. Hill in the Scuderia Veloce Brabham in the lead, and he held it for quite some time, while Clark has got it right on the limit. He's about to start braking where he is (this is my fabled bit of the Farm, the bit just after where I flag waved for years.. Frank Matich is just passing my flag point), and that is a position I never once saw a car in in my time there... except Jane in the Mustang, I think, and he kept on going... sideways, backwards, round and round.
Anyway, the report goes on to say that Clark was 'putting wheels in the dust out of every corner' as he nailed Hill and pushed him harder and harder... until he ran off the road with three laps to go.
The Sandown race saw him chase Brabham hard until his engine went off song. So there were times he put it on the line... but in F1 he usually had a superior car (1962 - 1965 and 1967).. maybe some recollections of his 1966 drives would turn up some good ones.

I have read the comments on Black Jack and I wish the press had made the same comment in 1966. From my associated experiances Jack was a brilliant sorter of problems. He never seemed a "wild one" behind the wheel, he sneaked around with average lap times but did a good time on every corner bar one, then just before time, he did a fast one and got poll. I remember the night in Australia he was expected on National TV but he stayed in the workshop, in his overalls and drank iced water from a workshop dispenser and spent several hours going over that day and anticipating the next day. He actually got hold of the small electric porting machine and smoothed out all the rough interior of the RB V8 water manifolds to give himself something to do. He and Frank Matich were the same, although Matich was a more aggressive driver. Give either a car and they would tell you how good it was, how much HP it had, and would tell Repco, "I want more horsepower !!". Only the very best drivers have the ability to use all the horsepower. Jack used the Repco engines with the ignitio locked up, the ignition timing was static. He reckoned he could feel the auto advance through sweeping corners and he did not like it so we locked up the distributor shaft. That is a pretty good indication of his feel for equipment.Owl.

Interesting comment, Rodway, and thank you for gracing my thread with your very first post. You might now go to the 'introductions' thread and tell us some more of your apparently interesting life.
And tell us more about Matich some time, even start a thread about him with some snippet from his past... I need material for my book about him, so let's get it going.

Ray,
Without success I tried to find Burpengary in Queensland, Austalia on the map coming with the July issue of National Geographic.

Any suggestions where to look?

38km north of Brisbane on the Bruce Highway, the main road up the coast. But by the time you find that I'll be moving to my new home in Harden, NSW, that's between Yass and Young, west of Canberra. You might find that it's called Harden-Murrumburrah or just Murrumburrah.
Have fun with maps? I have stacks of them... where are you?

... where are you? [/B][/QUOTE]

Ray,
I live in Waikiki, Hawaii - about 15 minutes from the beach if you walk Hawaiian style. You can't get lost here unless you had too much tequila.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ray Bell
[B]38km north of Brisbane on the Bruce Highway, ........
.......Harden, NSW, that's between Yass and Young, west of Canberra. You might find that it's called Harden-Murrumburrah or just Murrumburrah.
Have fun with maps? I have stacks of them...

Will answer last question first. I have a few maps. Was always interested in geography. Sounds funny but I am a mental traveller. Never been to Austalia, but you are not too far away from Waikiki in Hawai'i.

I found Burpengary on the map. What a name! Sounds to me like Gary was burping. Cannot find you new place west of Canberra. Must be north-west of Namadgi National Park.

Thanks, for your e-mail. Yes, I will reveal myself. Feel kind of intimidated amongst you young guys.

It would be over 100km west of Canberra, only about 30km from Young, which is a major centre.
As for 'young guys,' you'll find on the 'how old are you' thread that only two or three are older than me... but there are a few not far behind... you won't be out of place.

Yes Ray, you are not the oldest here.
I was already eyeballing the other sex when you were not even thought of.

Either you had a wandering eye very young or you're about 70!
That makes you older than Art... and he got chucked off the board!

I will reveal myself as soon as I finish my Why?-question for the ongoing 8w contest.

I will then come out of the closet, so tho speak.

You're starting to worry me! Find Harden yet? Look for places like Boorowa (to the North), Jugiong (to the South) and Binalong (to the East)...

I only found Harden and Boorowa on the map, the other two places are not shown. Scale is only 1:6,766,055.

You have a good magnifying glass, apparently, congratulations... when I get there I'll email you pictures.
Looking for your post in introductions..

The post below refers to a picture, but it appears only as the traditional red X...

Well, this is it:

A pic from Ray.....

Ray,
That photo of Clark with the tail out at Warwick Farm - wasn't the story that he had broken a gear and had to keep the wheels spinning to keep the revs up in the next higher gear?
By the way (and making sure I mention Jack Brabham in his thread), I expect to be seeing young Jack at dinner this Saturday night. Would you like me to tell Lady Margaret what you said a few posts back?
It is interesting that so many people remember Jack as a safe, sure, unspectacular driver. In his early days of road racing in Australia and again in England, he was known as a wild young ex-dirt track racer who knew nothing other than flat out and sideways.
You don't suppose he matured?
A famous Gene Kelly quote about dancing could apply to Jack's later GP driving, "If you look like you're working hard, you ain't been working hard enough".
I find it odd, also, that Jochen Rindt was known as a real racer and one of the greats, yet an older driver could race him wheel to wheel and often beat him and be referred to as "safe and steady".

You always were a name dropper, Barry!
I don't think she'd see the humour in that, do you? Maybe you'd better concentrate on bringing them up to date on your pursuit of pictures of his early career.
And as to the pic at Point M1, yes, Jimmy did have to drive around a missing gear, third it was, and I can tell you he wasn't in third at this point, although the report says he still had to go through the gate each time, so maybe this is his little phase in neutral on the way down from fourth to second.
I really think we're fortunate that Chris Snowdon was on the spot for this moment... and do you remember who owned that Triumph 2000 in the background?

There is a bell ringing back there somewhere but, no, I can't remember who owned the Triumph 2000.

Well, Geoffrey had one, but I don't think that one is his... there was another one hanging around the place. Now that the page has turned over, I think I'll post that pic that didn't come up for Alfisti... it's Jack and his three sons in Brabhams at Adelaide at Easter this year... no hats..

Sort of in keeping with the theme of this thread (the poster actually celebrates Denny Hulme's WDC
and Brabham's WCC in '67), a potential screen saver for my friends
down under and elsewhere

That's the 740 engine, I would say, certainly ?40, with the central exhausts, single cams and Heron heads. I don't recall them being that gold colour... but the advertising people are wonderful, aren't they?
What did that appear in?

Ray,

I was using a new search engine http://www.google.com
to see what if any nuggets I could find for the Amon thread and I stumbled across
this homepage of this group of Finns http://warpedracing.figc.net/ (click on the
"info" bar on the left) that participate in a) GPL league.
This group of Finns run as Repco-Brabhams. Finland! Black Jack casts a long shadow! When I saw the graphic I thought it was too cool not to share.[p][smallfont][Edited by AyePirate on 07-30-2000][/smallfont]

Looks like it was from a European trade journal then.

I really enjoyed meeting Jack and talking with him recently when we did his introduction to 'Dan Gurney'. He took me through the 1969 season, the one when he reckoned he should have won another championship -- and I can see why!

I would love to 'do' Jack very soon in my series of driver books but Haynes just can't imagine that anyone would be interested, unless perhaps in Australia. I find that seriously disappointing. I'll keep trying!

I think Barry has plans there, Karl. And there are certainly publishers here who would do it.

The 69 season??? I checked out the 69 season on FORIX and Jack wasn't even close. Not even in 1970 which everyone says was a ripper of a season for him.

Please explain?