I saw the hill climb for the first time last night on ESPN2. Do you think the Toyota/Rod Millen unlimited entry is a bit much? 850 hp to go up the mountain. It looks like it could win at LeMans. The in-car camera of Per Eklund was amazing. Instead of run-offs, walls and catch fencing they used spectators, trees and sheer drops. That is some crazy racing.

That's not off topic at all... these long hillclimbs, rare as they are these days, public roads, no fences and all that, are among the few strands that hold the past together with the present. May they endure long, I say.
850 bhp too much? Ask Millen, I'm sure he'd say "No!"
No action pics?
That in-car footage would be great, assuming the car's not too sideways too often or for too long.

OT, NO WAY,

I am going to visit the Pike's Peak Hillclimb for sure! Before Audi made it's assault to the top, I had never heard of it. Peugeot next with their 405 T16. And now Rod Millen. This is really great stuff. We should have more of this on the Forum.

Marco.

Anyone know of any good PP videos? No such thing as too much HP by the way.....

Check out;
http://ppihc.com/2000/index.html
This web site has all the Pikes Peak info, plus a great arcive.

The hill climb is an amazing race to attend. My favorite viewing spot is the Devils Playground at about the 12,000 foot mark (3657 meters). It's on a long straight and you can see the cars coming from quite a ways away. Then they go screaming past to a section called the Bottomless Pit spraying gravel under oppisite lock. It's great fun.

Your right, Just as the handle implies;
There's No Substitute For Horsepower.
TNSFH

millen needs that 850 sea level hp, as it drops considerably as he goes up (down to something like 500 at the top). i understand it is actually the old toyota IMSA motor. Also look at the size of the gound effects tunnels on the vehicle (I refuse to call it a truck). It must suck the gravel right off the track!

Ray the in car shot was of his hands and feet. Very quick.

Here's a couple of pics from the site.

I may be nuts but riding on a side car looks like a blast.[p][smallfont][Edited by Treeface on 07-25-2000][/smallfont]

Mad or not, I'm with you... it's something I've always wanted to do, ride on a dirt-track outfit!
Those openwheelers at Pikes Peak are another issue, a lot of science going into them for this, and they're not always right.
It's a long time since I saw anything in depth on openwheelers that run there, maybe 33 years... what's actually been happening (apart from wings)?

If you want to see how it was done in 1963, take a look at Parnelli Jones in this picture:

http://www.dfphotoservices.com/galleries/stock/stock3.jpg

One can only wonder at why you'd do it in a car like that! Anyway, I want to know about the open wheelers...

Ray,
The open wheel cars are called "OPEN COMPETITION". Basically there are no rules except for safety. Lots of horsepower and a racing transmission, and they all burn Methanol. Great fun watching them race, throwing rooster tails all the way up the mountain.

Best place I can send you to to learn about them is;
http://www.chcaracing.com

There is also a junior class of open wheel car. This class regulates engine size and horsepower.

Yes, I realise they don't have to have open wheels to be openwheelers, more or less. That the rally cars etc run against the sprint cars... but what of developments in the openwheelers to meet this challenge?
Surely they could do it, the rules seem totally open.

Does the Audi Quattro rally car from late 80's still hold the record for the open class? I know they were trying to break either the nine minute or ten minute barrier.

Ray,
What are you thinking of? Some Gorden Murray-esque design innovation for the open wheelers perhaps? I just read the rules and ground effects seem to be out of the question (not that I'd want to try them on a gravel road ) Moveable wings? Moveable ballast? Great big helicopter rotor on top pushing the car down? My hands on experience with race cars is somewhat limited, so I don't know what's practical. I guess what I'm wondering is if you got someone with Ron Dennis's budget and resources, what would he produce and/or try? Or would he come up with the Audi Group B rally car?)

I think Rod Millen now holds the outright record in his Toyota Celica (not your standard Celica!) at around 10m04s, or something like that. He could've broke it this year in the car that you can see in the first post, but he ran into technical difficulties... Interesting to note, his son won a class up there this year, so the Millen family name should continue up at Pikes Peak for years to come. And wan't Millen a Kiwi? I'm sure that was him an a Group A Mazda battling Ross Dunkerton's Ralliart Lancer at Rally Australia a decade ago, and if so, he is one!

With regard to videos, Climb Dance was done at Pikes Peak, and I think a video is released of the event every year.

And a final note about the guys on the sidecars: All this time I've been thinking the guys that raced sidecars at the Isle of Man were the crazy ones

According to my knowledge the record is held by Rod Millen in a Toyota at 10.03 min or something like that. If you look at the winning time by Per Eklund this year it is way behind the 10.03 min time. Now, I've talked to Per Eklund a couple of times and have seen him race lots of times and he's a very fast driver and the equipment he had this year seemed to be competitive as well, a Saab 9-3 Turbo based on his rallycross car delivering approximately 700+ hp. I think that either the track length has changed since Walter Röhrl broke the record in 1987 in the Audi Quattro or the Audi was even more awsome than I thought...

/C F Eick

I just went to the Pikes Peak site that is mentioned in an earlier post (thanks TNSFH, love the name!) and Millen set the record in 1994 in this:



At 10:04.06 up the hill, as I said, it's not your average Celica

I don't know much about the classes that the cars run in at Pikes Peak, but Rod Millen was running in the Unlimited class and was around 35 seconds up on Per Eklund's split time, Per running in the Pikes Peak Open Class. Millen didn't make it to the top, but Eklund recorded a 11:12.58, and I know Per is a good driver, but there has to be a difference in the classes, either that or track knowledge means everything up there.

Like the climb itself, the rules make the event a real renegade, which is fabulous.
Without further knowledge, I would say that the basic safety rules and four wheels are the only parameters... what could someone come up with?>
Although, earlier, I was just wondering what people have done to date to meet this 4WD rally-car type challenge.

We need to enjoy this race while we can. About 6 months ago, there was a news report about an environmental group (Sierra Club?) that wants to get the road paved and the race cancelled because all of the gravel thrown off of the road is threatening the trees an/or wildlife. I haven't heard recently how much success their effort has had. Hopefully, very little.

How would the driver aids of the '92 Williams apply to the Pikes Peak cars? Would traction control work? I would think rally drivers might call it sacrilege and I'm sure it would require a totally different approach to driving.

As to too much horsepower, let me try to quote from Mark Donohue when he was asked if the 917 (I think) had too much horsepower, "When you can lay down big fat black marks from the apex of one corner to the braking point of the next corner, than you've got enough horsepower." Feel free to correct me on the quote, I don't remember it exactly. Reading that somewhat opened my eyes to the fearlessness of race car drivers and what they would be prepared to accept in a race car. I mean, I thought the 917 had something like 1000 BHP and he wanted more, a lot more. Wow.

Sounds like something I'd like to see, too!
As I say, I've never heard a driver complain about having too much, neither have I heard an engine developer say he had found enough.

The number I have heard was 1100 HP @1.3 bar boost pressure. When th Porsche engineers truned it up to 2 bar, the dynometer stopped at 1500 HP. The dyno stopped, _not_ the engine!

Marco.

Wonder if that made Mark happy?

BAR is approx 18 psi right?

14.2, I think... something close to that, anyway.

14.5038 to be precise.

A man with horsepower on his mind would: A. be reading this; b. know the figures; and, c. kindly give them to us... I'm sure Alfi will appreciate that, TNSFH.

My understanding is that the climb has remained the same course for a large number of years. Each year it is treated with some sort of Calcium compound to bind it. This and the weather make the times (or at least "quickness") at PP quite variable from year to year.

Millen is no slouch and his Toyota based vehicles are well developed with lots of tech on board. Monster Tajima (sp?) has been keeping him honest in various Suzuki based equipment over the years.

I was very suprised to see the 11min time for Eckland and the SAAB but it was the first year there. If they come back next year I too would expect to see some serious times out of them.

A year back there was a Ford RS200 based vehicle that was announced with much noise, which seems to have disappeared completely. Its results were non existant.

Millen and Tajima will not be an easy beat for anyone who tries and they have lots of experience at a unique motorsport challenge.

There has been an environmental debate going on for a large no of years. Some people want the event stopped. Some want the course paved and others equally passionately (and environmentally argued) want it left dirt.

Tajima and Millen run in the Unlimited class, which I presume to mean as it says - unlimited capacity, unlimited aero aids, unlimited damn near everything! Per Eklund was running in a different class, Pikes Peak Open from memory, so I'm assuming that the cars are not as technologically advanced or something like that, can't find the right words at the moment, so even if Eklund comes back next year with more experience and an improved car, I doubt he will be able to get near the times of Tajima and Millen, who funnliy enough, both retired this year before they got to the top.

The open class is for cars which are based on a production silloheutte, without wings, with an engine derived from the same manufacturer as the body. Drive is free. Seriously open with the exception of the wings.

Unlimited do really seem to be quite unlimited, so long as they can persuade the scrutineers the car is safe. Millen's own vehicle is no longer a production silloheutte, and has serious wings. So certainly he gets an aero advantage out of that - for the rest of it, it would seem to be "open" in the extent of the modifications.

Nobuhiro (monster) Tajima was actually running a Suzuki based "open" this year. I cannot remember what class he was running in in previous years.

Certainly the Audi and Pug efforts were unlimiteds with wings and ground effects.

http://www.ppihc.com is a fairly good official site.

My point above was how unique the event is to have an unlimited, unburdened class. To give the entrant total freedom to achieve whatever he can. Unique in a world of over-regulation.

Worth a bump!

There's a nice article on Michele Mouton - and Walter Rohrl with the legendary Quattro in '87 here: http://www.clubvw.org.au/audis_at_pikes_peak.htm

I wonder if the egos of the PP stalwarts have recovered from being beaten by a woman after all these years

BTW - Youtube doesn't seem to turn up anything, but are there any decent videos on the 'web of the likes of Rohrl or Vatenen at 'the peak?


Justin

Do a Youtube search for 'climb dance'

That the Cannes (or Nice) festival entry?

I'm not sure, but the intro of the movie does list some prizes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PTNcU_MNUw

Climb Dance was the most requested motor racing footage Channel 9 ever showed when they were following the GPs...

Used as a filler a few times when things went awry at Adelaide. Great stuff!

Last summer during my 15,000 mile three month motorcycle ride around the US, I rode my bike to the top of Pike's Peak...........and scared myself to death. Riding a fully loaded 650 lb touring motorcycle up a steep hill covered with gravel over a compacted washboard surface was no fun. And coming down was even worse. 1st gear all the way. I presume the race takes place on the gravel section only and doesn't take in the lower tarmacced two thirds?

If I'm not mistaken the course has been partially paved with tarmac over the last few years. But they do still run on those parts. It can been seen on recent videos of the event that are on youtube as well.

Google maps :

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=pi...0.4319&t=h&om=1

As part of a 4 month trip around the US in 1975 we thought we were going up Pikes Peak but it turned out it we got the wrong road, the road we went on was tarmac all the way and did not 'dead end' but the Ford Econoline camper sure had trouble getting to the top of whatever mountain we had gone up. Besides flying it was the highest I have ever been. Course the camper didn't quite have 600+ HP but did have quite a bit of weight and an auto gearbox....

Pike's Peak reaches up to 14,110ft, two thirds is tarmac, the remainder gravel. You might have gone up Mount Evans, only a few miles away, and at 14,260ft is the highest tarmacced road in North America. Of course, I had to do that one as well! The bike wouldn't tick over at those altitudes......

[in Stewart Little voice]

I would love to see what the good ole boys from the current WRC could achieve

Paul,

I am sure that you are correct. Oh the memories! Must get out the old diaries and get those old slides scanned! We headed south from Mt. Evans to "canyons of the ancients national monument" and Las Vegas (for a bit of a change from camp grounds) and then Grand canyon etc etc..

Sorry, gone quite of topic here ....

My friend Paul Dallenbach is a bit of a PP specialist, having held the record there (the outright one, I think) quite a few times over the last decade-and-a-bit.

Here are some pics which he's sent me over the years; sorry, but I haven't a clue regarding their copyright...













One of his monster machines actually started life as the Rahal-Hogan Indycar! It's the third & fourth one down I think.

The Unser family used to have a mortgage on PP didn't they?

http://www.ppihc.com/ is a good web site to look at. Also has links to lots of photos

Amazing stuff! Thanks!


Justin

Hi, Can anyone help out to get this PPIHC overall records list completed? In 1993 "Monster" Tajima drove 10:44:22mins with his Suzuki Sport TwinEngine Cultus T2 to win the Unlimited Division, but claimes on his website that he was just 2nd Overall. Therefore, there must have been another track record in that year, possibly set by Paul Dallenbach in an Open Wheeler. Any information about that available? And was there any competitor ever under 12mins before 1985?

1985: Michèle Mouton (F), Audi Sport quattro, 11:25:39mins
1986: Bobby Unser (USA), Audi Sport quattro S1, 11:09:22mins
1987: Walter Röhrl (D), Audi Sport quattro S1 "Pikes Peak", 10.47:85mins
1988: Ari Vatanen (FIN), Peugeot 405 Turbo 16 "Pikes Peak", 10:47:22mins
1993: ???
1994: Rod Milen (NZ), Toyota Celica Turbo "Pikes Peak", 10:04:06mins
2007: Nobuhiro Tajima (J), Suzuki Sport XL7 Hill Climb Special, 10:01:408mins

Thanx to mother Google I’ve found this:

1968: Bobby Unser (USA), Rislone Special, 11:54:90mins
1979: Dick Dodge Jr. (USA), Hoffpauir Wells Coyote Chevy, 11:54:18mins
1982: Bill Brister (USA), Woziwodzki Wells Coyote Chevy, 11:44:82mins
1983: Al Unser Jr. (USA), Woziwodzki Wells Coyote Chevy, 11:38:30mins
1985: Michèle Mouton (F), Audi Sport quattro, 11:25:39mins
1986: Bobby Unser (USA), Audi Sport quattro S1, 11:09:22mins
1987: Walter Röhrl (D), Audi Sport quattro S1 "Pikes Peak", 10:47:85mins
1988: Ari Vatanen (FIN), Peugeot 405 Turbo 16 "Pikes Peak", 10:47:22mins
1993: Paul Dallenbach (USA), Davis Chevrolet, 10:43:63mins
1994: Rod Milen (NZ), Toyota Celica Turbo "Pikes Peak", 10:04:06mins
2007: Nobuhiro Tajima (J), Suzuki Sport XL7 Hill Climb Special, 10:01:408mins

Rod Millen is always a very popular and very competitive vistor to Goodwood Festival of Speed.

Roger Lund.

AFAIK the pic shows his Toyota Celica in 1995 outfit, not in the 1994 record scoring livery. And Rod’s son Rhys Millen is also for many a year a regular at the PPIHC.

All I know is that he's run what he's brung, and mighty impressive it is too, in whatever livery or spec. The programme lists Rod as entrant and driver. The photo in the programme shows it in a white livery, but the car is slated as 1994 record car.
RL

I guess it was the same car for 1994 as well as 1995, just another livery (and possibly some other modifications?).

1994 PPIHC pic: http://ppihc.artemisimages.com/Big/ppih0836.JPG

1995 PPIHC pic: http://ppihc.artemisimages.com/Big/ppih0842.JPG