For a minute there (before you added the second pic and added the text) I thought you were doing
a new BT34 cutaway, because you couldn't find the original

Fitting that the 1000th post in this thread should be yours Tony, keep going!

Tony
Fantastic work, as all your cutaways!
Do you know that in my architectural projects, do I still work faster in the drawing board of the one what in AutoCad?
I am of the transitory generation...
rgds

In post 30 in this thread Doug Nye seems to say that Michael Badrocke is best known for
aeronautical cutaways.

THAT'LL be the day, Marc!

Darn!

Tony beat me to The Ton - and Marc beat me to the very fittinng congratulation of Tony!

When I started this thread I had never imagined it would grow to over 1000 posts - but then I had never expected The Great Tony to come out of the woodwork...




A pretty little car, Lafferty's 75 F2 chamionship winning Martini-BMW. I've never seen a cutaway of it before - any chance of us seeing the finished work here, Tony?

Congratulations to all for the 1000 posts.

To compare, another Tyrrell P34 cutaway. Werner Buhrer (prototype), Bruno Betti (1976), Piola (1977) and another from Bruno and Giulio Betti / Auto Zeitung scanned from Car and Driver february 1977. What a pity its not full color but a reddish shade.
Any more?



Tony, how you can put lot of detail in a drawing not so big? What size is it? It seems to be 50x70cm aprox. ?
Do you have extra super power lens on your glasses?
Fantastic photos.


Ibsen
http://public.fotki.com/ibsenop/

What do the Buhrer and 76 Betti look like Ibsen ?

The Betti Tyrrell P34 cutaway



Buhrer Tyrrell P34 cutaway



Ibsen
http://public.fotki.com/ibsenop/

Can anyone identify this sharknose artist ? The way it is positioned it might be an Allington.

I rarely bet, Marc, but I'd put money on that being a Betti, but which one? Jim's version was from a similar angle, but higher and steeper, i.e the centre-line was nearer to 30° - 35° to the base-line.

Thanks Ibsen, do you know of other cutaways Buhrer did ?
He is mostly known for his two page-spread sketches of F1 and Can Am cars in Road & Track IIRC.

At QuattroRuote Speciale Ferrari F1 December 1990 this cutaway (Ferrari 156 Shark Nose) is credited to Giulio Betti.

Cutaways in this magazine - two pages size each

Ferrari 125 1948 - Giulio Betti - color
Ferrari 500 1952 - Bruno Betti - P&B
Ferrari Lancia D50 - Bruno Betti - color
Ferrari Dino 246 1958 - without credit - color
Ferrari 156 Shark Nose - Giulio Betti - color
Ferrari 158 1964 - Bruno Betti - color
Ferrari 312 T 1975 - Bruno Betti - color
Ferrari 312 T2 1977 - Bruno Betti - color
Ferrari 312 T4 1979 - Bruno Betti - color
Ferrari 641/2 1990 - Bruno Betti - color

Engine Cutaways - one page size each

Ferrari 4 cil 2000 - Cavara - P&B
Ferrari 312 3000 Boxer - Giulio Betti - color
Ferrari V12 3500 - Bruno Betti - color

Ibsen
http://public.fotki.com/ibsenop/

A good guess, Ibsen, 500x750 mm roughly, much bigger than that and it is awkward to work on. When I did the colour version of the Ilmor Mercedes 500I engine I had to make an easel that bolted onto my desk - I worked on a flat desk, not an angled drawing board - as I couldn't reach the top very easily. It made masking and spraying difficult, and I can't work with the drawing upside-down! I've tried... When I told Paul Morgan about it he said "I hope it 's CNC machined aluminium, Tony!"

I've always intended to post this, the first cutaway I ever remember (at the age of 15) - of the Porsche 917 - published in Autocar, together with one of the Ferrari 512S by Vic Berris (I think). Michael Badrocke was one of my heroes before you, Tony, purely on the strength of that one cutaway (and my obsession with the 917!) - never heard tell of him since, until now - and I used to tell everybody that I was going to be a MSIA, without ever finding out what it stood for! I assume it's Member of the Society of [something beginning with I] Artists - what's the 'something'?

As Doug Nye's post suggested earlier, he seems to have concentrated on aircraft cutaways since then; I've also found out he illustrates and writes about tanks and military vehicles.

I thought it was the Society of Industrial Artists, but I've google'd it and the nearest I can get is the SIAD, possibly a later version, the Society of Illustrators, Artists and Designers. Not much reference to the technical aspect there, but that doesn't surprise me.

That's a very nice cutaway, Mark, one of my favourite cars, wish I had done one myself! And as macoran pointed out, Doug had mentioned him, it's just that post #30 is a long way away, and I may not have read it until now!

Back to the business of the SIA or SIAD, perhaps a member can enlighten us.

Didn't quite get the chance to finish as the Child Bride called me to the table:-

...but I had to admit that it was made of wood, but quite neat, fully adjustable and de-mountable, and bolts onto the desk I am sitting at now - oh, the stories this desk could tell! - but has never been used since, as I never did another 'tall' illustration. However, it's in the attic...

The T79 detail that I posted, Ibsen, is a full A4 scan, so if you place an A4 sheet of paper on your screen and enlarge the scan to fill the paper, that should be full-size. I think. Some illustrations are a bit bigger, the Reynard 97I is about 75mm longer, for some reason, and the Penske PC26, which is about 900mm long, as being side-on the detail would have been a bit too small on 750mm - some of the detail was almost too small anyway! I often thought of using larger board, and if I had continued with the Mercedes W154 it would have been larger, the next size of water-colour board up, 750x1000mm.

As to the glasses - my eye-sight is not as good as it was, although I've worn glasses since I was eight, I used to be able to see atoms, now I can only see molecules, but I had some work-glasses made, not varifocal, designed for use at normal working distance, but towards the end, for very fine detail, I used an Optivisor, a very useful device (I use it now when trying to remove small splinters!) which I could use with or without my spectacles for different magnification. However, I had to shorten the handles of my paint brushes or I would hit the Optivisor all the time!

No one knows what I've been through... God, is that bottle empty too?


Also makes me look highly intelligent! And sexy, at least I think so...

The artist is Kane Rogers. He's a friend of mine and lives in Vancouver , BC. He's only done 2 cutaways that I'm aware of. The Sharknose is the first one he did completely digital.

Tom

Throw out the black flag on me! I blurted out stuff before having a closer look at the illustration. It looked a lot like Kane's painting but then I actually opened it and realised my mistake. Sorry.

Hi Tom, well, it fooled me, but it's difficult to tell from such a low-res scan! From what I can see it has a very nice, natural look. Although quite what I mean by 'natural', I'm not sure...!

Hello Tony. Kane's sharknose can be seen at: www.kanerogers.com. It is a nice rendering but definately comes across as a digital piece of work.

If you don't want the expense of an Optivisor there is the fruit option, using just one fresh peach.
As with normal contact lenses it is inadvisable to sleep in them, but they can be eaten after use...

Sorry Tom, but it is absolutely not.....
beat me to it I sse

I'm with you, Marc, I've just been through a lot of posts and can't find what I'm looking for, but I think Kane Rodgers' Ferrari 'Sharknose' was featured earlier, and it doesn't look like this, AND it's on a black background.

And ME! My word, this is exciting, I'll need my inhaler if there's much more of it...

for sure Tony, ......blasted imageshack is buggering up right now
I've got the Kane Rogers sharknose scanned in right here.


edit : here it is

Marc, my Dutch is almost non-existant, but does this mean 'not working properly'? I must remember to use it next time I visit my mother-in-law...just to show how sophisticated and multi-lingual I have become since joining this forum!

Yeah, that's the one! So we are still looking for another name...

Yes Tony, when I had to do my GCE finals I always used 'not working properly', out with mates I couldn't be bothered (or even .......be buggered).

Re:- MSIA - I've found the Chartered Society of Designers! Obviously my earlier googleing wasn't very effective, but there's something about us illustrators that designers don't like, as at its inception (1930) it was the Society of Industrial Artists, became the Society of Industrial Artists and Designers in 1963, and has now abandoned 'Artists' completely, the 'Designers' acting like some baby cuckoo, or so it seems. I'm glad I was never sharing the nest with that lot, I can tell you... the thought of the elbowing and shoving, the futile attempts to hang on, the strangely peaceful fall and jarring stop... the cold loneliness, the snuffling, the hot fetid breath, the sharp teeth...

Here is a similar cut away by James Allington which is in the Automobile Year # 8. Perhaps if someone has # 9 the drawing under discussion might be there. This was too big for me to scan, so I photographed it. The copyright is Automobile Year's.

Thanks Robin,

I must say that I see a distinct improvement in Allington's work when comparing this 1960 F2 car and the series of 65 F1 car cutaways and 67/68 series of Gr 8 cutaways.

Now who has AY #9 ??

As I didn't recognose it as a Bruno ( whose work I am most familiar with), I'll go for Giulio Betti
since Ibsen seems to have a Betti Sharknose in a QuattroRuote Edizione Speziale Ferrari

At Luton the City & Guilds qualification was dropped and replaced by an accessment by the SIAD, and having passed muster was allowed to put LSIAD after my name (something that I've never, ever done!). The L stood for License, so I wasn't even a bloody Member! :\

At last! Well done Robin. I'm seriously worried about my memory now, however, as I was sure this was the 'Sharknose', and it ain't, but it is a very long time since I last saw it.

Alan, I didn't realize that, I thought the C&G - which I took, obviously - carried on. Mike Wrigglesworth did suggest to us that we might like to apply for LSIA - or LSIAD as it became - but I never bothered. I think the L stands for Licentiate, which means license, but is a step down from Member and a further step down from Fellow.

Do you have to change to LCSD now, or does some element of the SIAD continue to exist? I know what you mean about not putting it after your name, I don't mean to offend those who can and do use it, but it's not something I would do.

I don't think John Marsden has been mentioned on this thread - I believe his work mostly appeared in Autocar?

This is one of my favourites:



Paul M

I've no idea. I went to one of the SIAD open evenings in London after I first qualified and thought they were so up there own backsides that I ignored the whole system.

Fortunately the member who accessed my work was from British Leyland and he got me a job with VAP, an illustration agency in Kidlington near Oxford. Ironically just after I left VAP they started sponsoring Andy Wallace in Formula Ford and Tom Walkinshaw moved into premises across the road. Perfect timing what....

I'm really intrigued by this comment, Marc, as I was working for/with him during this period, and whilst there is naturally a slight variation from piece to piece I don't remember a great deal of change over the years, except that I had some small input, such as persuading him that the way he shaded tyre sidewalls could be improved, and to his credit he agreed immediately when he saw what I had done to one of his cutaways. He did experiment with size on one occasion, I think with a Lola GP car, working on a ½-board, but found that, while some time was saved in sketching out the basic shape, it took longer to draw in the detail and to shade at a smaller scale to achieve the same overall effect!

I have huge admiration for Jim's work, and will always be profoundly grateful that I was introduced to him, and that he agreed to take me on as an apprentice, but that doesn't mean I am blind to some aspects of his work. It was Terry Collins, I think, that told him that FMC found his cutting-away a bit too fussy, nibbled by rats was the expression. I don't know if it was to his credit that he refused to change, but he kept his style to the end, and TC went on to do the FMC cutaways.

I still prefer cutting to ghosting, but my cutting, whilst giving the impression of a genuine 'cut' is not nearly so 'nibbled', partly because I prefer the look, but also because I took on-board what TC had said. In the same way I decided that I had to move from B&W to colour after a MN journo - Jeremy Walton, possibly - asked Michael Turner why my cutaway prints were not selling as well as they had hoped. "Because people want colour!" was the reply. I am not suggesting that one should slavishly change on the word of any critic, but I always used to at least give the comment some thought before rejecting it out of hand. Once I finalised my 'style' I only refined it slightly, in a constant effort to improve.

I look forward to someone posting Jim's '65 cutaways and we can discuss! I might be able to 'borrow back' the AY's that I gave away, I'll check.

Edited to add:- I always felt that this colour version of the F2 Ferrari was the best colour cutaway that Jim did, even though I couldn't compare it directly with his later work, and I was slightly surprised that he chose to add colour to his line drawings rather than painting from scratch - he, after all, had some experience of fine art, which I didn't. It's all very personal.

I really like that Macca, thanks. He has been mentioned, but I think this is the first posting. It looks great and it is really informative - you get the impression that he had all the information he needed, and that there is not much that could be added. OK, the tail tank is not shown, but then there is so much technical detail from one end of the car to the other, very nice!

Ha ha! That is just what I would have expected! Thanks for finding out for me...

[B]I've no idea. I went to one of the SIAD open evenings in London after I first qualified and thought they were so up there own backsides that I ignored the whole system.

[QUOTE]

I remember when I was at college in Cornwall, all of our lecturers had SIA of some description after there name. They all seemed to be very proud of it even though it just involved paying an annual subscription to a professional body. What I do remember is that MSIA stood for Member of the Society of Industrial Artists and FSIA stood for Fellow of the Society of Industria Artists. I think you became the second if you stayed with them for ten years.

Changing tack slightly. I have a 1961 Car and Driver magazine which has cutaway illustrations by artists called Emily, Gordon Bruce, C O La Tourette and a James Allington of a Lola Formula Junior.The first three are a bit crude.

I think you could also be invited to join, possibly as a Fellow, if you were proposed and seconded by members, but it struck me as a bit airy-fairy, I would have persued it if it meant the difference between working and not working, as was the (almost) case with SLADE and NGA threats in the mid-seventies. I wonder if our American Illustrator colleagues ever had union problems. Tom?

"Now who has AY #9 ??" macoran

I looked in my copy - there are two racecar cutaways that I found. Both by James Allington. Page 189 depicts the Ferguson P99, page 191 is the Lotus.

Brian

[QUOTE]I must say that I see a distinct improvement in Allington's work when comparing this 1960 F2 car and the series of 65 F1 car cutaways and 67/68 series of Gr 8 cutaways.


Does anyone have any copies of Jim Allingtons Group 7/8 stuff? I have never seen those.

Unions and any academic organizations are pretty much all the same to me. In my opinion, they concentrate too much on who you know and how many certificates and merit badges one pocesses. I never studied art in school and learned it by studying Tony's and all the other masters and reading lots of books which is probably the main reason I've stayed away from them.

John Marsden was the chief cutaway artist at Flight International for a good many years. His speciality seems to have been largish to huge passenger aircraft, all of them simply superb. Other, IMO, exceptionally good cutaway artists at Flight were Arthur Bowbeer (lovely line and wash, as well as pencil "probes"), Frank Munger, who, in his eighties, still makes cutaways of historic aircraft and aero engines in The Aeroplane (aviation's equivalent to MotorSport, where Flight is more like the Autosport of yore), and current master cutaway artist at Flight, 'Joe' Picarella, who maintains a very personal style, somewhat like a cross between Marrsden and Munger. Mike Badrocke did quite a few cutaways for Flight also, but is probably best known for his work under the Aviagraphica banner, turning out a prodigeous amount of aircraft cutaways for various publications and books, sadly with some loss of the detail he showed himself capable of at Flight in the seventies.

The Flight cutaways and John Batchelor's splendid line and watercolour work did as much to kindle my interest in aviation as Tony's cutaways did in racing car design. Happily, many new Flight cutaways are still published each year. Even if as many racing car cutaways were published, they would lack the variety of the aviation scene. I mean, every biggish single seater today would have a black tub with pushrod suspension, raised nose and undercut side pods - how many current single seaters stray from that recipe? Fortunately, there's still some technical divesity in the lesser formlae (excepting the numerous one-make series) and in sports-prototype racing. But no cutaways to be had (unless one makes them oneself, I suppose...)

Now that I've left the ground anyway,I thought I'd also mention the artist who did much to fuel an interest in astronautics and science fiction, Chesley Bonestell, even if he was really before my time.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rancethebus


[QUOTE]

Changing tack slightly. I have a 1961 Car and Driver magazine which has cutaway illustrations by artists called Emily, Gordon Bruce, C O La Tourette and a James Allington of a Lola Formula Junior.The first three are a bit crude. [/QUOTE]
This Dagrada is probably the Emily cutaway from that C&D FJr article

Usual comments about the problems... and this is all I could get on the scanner. Anders, you are right about the Aeronautical Illustrators, I have huge admiration for them, and who knows, if Jim Allington had been drawing 'planes... However, it puzzles me slightly that there is still a healthy demand for cutaways of aircraft and their power units, when in the automobile world it's as near as dead as a Dodo. Perhaps flyers just have better taste!

just a note about the above - it will be noticed that it has a prototype 'Tony Matthews' under it. This was my last MN cutaway, I knew I was leaving, and I thought, as they apparently say in the Netherlands, 'Bugger it!' and signed it. A little bit of rebelious spirit, there!

It isn't really something typically Dutch Tony,...........probably more typical ME. I could probably even start a thread to cover all the instances and contexts wherein I use the "buggerismic" exclamation.
I frequented a certain area of the British Isles where the f... word was used so often in a sentence that I was actually at a loss to understand what was being said..........I can assure you I always use "bugger"once in a sentence so that you can actually quite easily understand what I am buggering on about.

Back on topic.....I'll scan the set of Allington F1s when I bugger well feel up to it !