Not purposely changing topic again.....but
Ibsen and I have been exchanging cutaways and things off-line.
Ibsen has a Norton liveried 1981 Penske PC9B by your hand, while I have the Gould car (1981 PC9B).
Wouldn't that count as the first full-body colour change?


As to E.T.A.I.,.....allez, bonne direction !

No Marc, because unless I am mistaken, and I don't have the original artwork or large transparencies, I think I only changed the sides of the side-pods, possibly also the lettering on the front and rear wings, as most of the colour-scheme was the same for both cars. I now have to wait until you tell me I'm wrong...!

Point taken ! Great memory !
Q.E.D.

Marc,

I don't think the Renault is an E.T.A.I., as it really isn't a 'true' cutaway - nothing is exposed inside the tub. It appears to me to be a drawing made fairly quickly from just a few photos of the car with bodywork on and removed. I would have thought E.T.A.I. would have had access to the actual car and/or engineering drawings and thus would have included some chassis interior detailing - front springs or whatever. My best guess is an early Francois?

Hi Anders, you may well be right, I still think it looks like E.T.A.I., but whoever did it, it has several glaring problems. I can understand the front of the tub not being cut away if the illustrator didn't have the information, or was told "Don't bother, we need it yesterday, just cut the bodywork!", as these things happen, but the rear wing is very odd - there was no understanding of the wing elements, or the reflections in the end-plate. No doubt macoran will eventually triumph and we can breathe again!

The thread sems to have gone a bit stale of late so I thought I might induce some verbal sparring with another of Tony's creations that has been sampled on here before. I leave it to yourselves to determine what it is but it is a good one as you would expect. Maybe Tony can tell us the story behind it.

I'm curious about the access cover on the top of the left hand side of the tub - it appears to be over the compartment in front of the fuel cell, so what would have been lurking in that particular cavity?

Not the prettiest of cars, IMO the 308 - the good doc would make ammends with the WR1 (and 308C wasn't too hard on the eye, either, IMO)

There's another access hole in front of the one you mentioned, Anders, partly cut away. I can't remember what they were for, a bit too obvious for contraband! I thought there were aspects of the 308 that looked nice, but overall it just missed the mark. I agree about the 308C and the WR1, although I don't think I had a close look at the Wolf, I certainly didn't photograph it. However there is a photo of the 308C somewhere...

So there is! I suspect that forward cavity access hole permitted access to whatever nut elements that fastened the front wishbones' hind legs to the chassis.

I have a few photos from the 'net of the WR1 (and 308C) up close and personal. Conceptually it's quite similar to the 308, just a lot sleeker with a much more pronounced wedge shape to the tub, the front being particularly low. The only eyesore on WR1 IMO is the front oil cooler - a "solid" chisel or wide nose would have made its looks perfect - otherwise it's one of those cars which look literally 'designed' (quite a few in those days didn't), with only one designer in charge.

308B, from silverstone, last july, captured shortly before i was asked why i was taking so many photos of the car...

looks like there's full access to the wishbone nut and bolt externally? the mystery of the nut plate deepens...

btw Anders have you seen the wr01 launch photos, wearing a full width nose and overhung wing, albeit with oil cooler in the nose?

peter

It isn't an E.T.A.I.,...............with bonne direction I only wanted to imply that it had what we call in
Holland "francophonic" origins.

To quote from Tony's next post: No doubt macoran will eventually triumph and we can breathe again!

Anders has already gone one better Tony.

Indeed it is a Jean-Jacques François, he of the Cobra / Stingray / E Type cutaways with the orangy
backgrounds. An amazing read is his career story, he actually started out as an anatomy artist drawing
our innards for medical books !!

The Renault must be a lot earlier then, but I've no idea when it or the 'E' Type were finished - what a transformation in style and content!

In case anyone hasn't seen the other thread I have started, I'm looking for dimensioned (or scale) drawings of the in-line A series engine - ideally plan and both elevations

anyone?

Thanks

I wondered when this was going to turn up, Mistron! There was a time when I could have helped, but I'm more or less cleaned out of data... Good luck!

Peter,

I'd never seen that 308B wishbone anchorage up close before - thanks! I wonder if it was done the same way on 308 - or perhaps fiddling with spanners through a tiny aperture was dispensed with from 308 to 308B at the mechanic's request?

I have this "thing" for normally hidden compartments on old racing cars - and aircraft of any vintage! (Yes, I know, I'm a sad case). When I worked in the GD structures group (specifically the wing) on a follow-on to the F-16, we had an unwritten agreement in the group that if we ever discovered some unused volume we kept it to ourselves, lest the various systems groups should find it and fill it up with avionics, hydraulics or whatever...


Marc, Tony,

Francois it was then! (Where do I collect the prize?). Like Tony, I'm surprised at how M. Francois got the rear wing section and reflections, well, wrong - I hope he didn't goof on the human innards, lest the surgeon not recognize them or put them back in the wrong place! Tony's probably right about Francois being given very little time to do the job in this case.

Anders, i think they are the same - the first 308B appeared at the end of 1974, but was the infact chassis 2 that had been shunted into tom pryce at the dijon start in july, it was converted to rubber springing, which meant a revised lower wishbone but all the restored cars are now back on coils, and as far as i can make out from the pictures i have of the others they all look the same in that area.

peter

ps there appear to be all 4 existing, two in donnington side by side, one in hesketh colours, the other in penthouse colours with that young lady in attendence, and then there are two out there racing, both in 75 308B spec. i believe i've checked all four.

The artwork I have added is not motor-race related but it was drawn by IMO an excellent illustrator. He is John Ferguson and he was a staff artist for "The Autocar" magazine. He was a contempory of Max Millar but IMO better. Millar worked for rivals "The Motor" magazine. I just prefer this style of illustration. What also appeals to me is that this was before the days of "Rapidographs" and ellipse guides. The illustration would have been constructed using ships curves and the ellipses would have been "tramelled". A "dip and scratch" pen would have been used. Of course I am sure there was some photography involved. I just really appreciate the work involved. This is one of many I purchased in 2001 from the "Autocar and Motor" archives collection. It has bad damp at the bottom and lower left which I have almost managed to mask out. I think it was sacrilege that they were allowed to get like this over the years. This illustration is dated as October 1936 and is of a Standard Flying 12.

I'm a little confused...in both illustrations of Porsches, by markpde & macoran, there seems to be a spare tyre. Why? I've never seen an endurance race where the driver got out of his car and changed a flat. Was it used as a form of ballast?

Ivan:

The spare tire was just a silly Le Mans rule for which the event was famous.

David,
Thanks...

Further to my reply - Blimey, sounds like business correspondence! - to AndyT a few posts ago, here is the finished detail, and I forgot to point out that the brake disc, caliper and cooling ducting is drawn the same way before the colour is added. I remain, yours faithfully, etc., etc.

I think it had to do with a regulation that...............
... a sports car (racer) had to have a spare (wheel/tyre) (wheel/tire)
J'espere d 'etre multilinguiste
I've probably had (too )(two) many colas, all those damn bubbles play havoc with my whatsit content.

One thing that has kept buggering me..(there I go again)... I can't help it...it keeps on buggering me
Did you use a lot of the Letraset kit to get all of the dot/dot/dot shading done ?
What about the carbon "dotting" Tony ? How is that done ?

Tony:

I used to subscribe to RaceCar Engineering years ago until the prices went ballastic. In your Ferrari cutaway above, I believe that I see the upper-front A-arm rear element featuring the 'knife-edge' mount that I read about in RCE. True? If so, that's the clearest image of it I've ever seen and I can now go to the great hereafter knowing that of which they were trying to explain!

Yep, Manfred, a 'flex-joint', I believe they are called, the first time I saw one I thought - 'No....', but that's me! I think the maximum flexure was about +/- 6mm at the top ball-joint end, so acceptable. But I worry, unneccessarily, it appears, about fatigue - I'd like to know what their 'life' is.

If the maximum flexure is as you say I would think the stresses are relatively low, certainly when compared to a valve spring which endures a pretty severe fatigue regime and about which none of us worry.

Many years ago I designed a force platform for tractive effort measurments that used flexures to avoid the variability of friction based solutions and obtain a more compact solution. And further back I was involved in the design of valve springs. I used a spring steel for which there is lots of fatigue data and slept easily at night.

Peter,

I will never cease to be amazed and impressed by your enthusiasm for and level of knowledge about 1970s F1 cars! BTW Do you know how much damage was done to the 308B that turned turtle in Monaco last year due to its conductor's neglect of rear view mirrors?


Tony,

Reference your post of 23 April 08:28:

Flexure joints with long fatigue life have been used on cars for ages: Leaf springs. A modern F1 flexure joint is but a leaf spring, albeit with more complex shape transitions. Much can be achieved by analysis, but I'm certain F1 teams fatigue rig test theirs also; possibly also inspect them frequently for cracks. They are probably also one of the many 'lifed' components on a contemporary F1 car.

We seriously considered a simpler version for our Formula Ford cars, but decided not to, partly because it wasn't cheaper for us, partly because we would be worried about fatigue life on customer cars. But it would have been pretty on an FF...

Rance,

I love that Ferguson Standard cutaway - it has such a lovely period feel (I also happen to love road cars from the late 1930s through the 1950s). And I agree - I find Ferguson's style both crisper and more revealing than Millar's. I think Millar's engine cutaways were particularly good though.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bonde
[B]

BTW Do you know how much damage was done to the 308B that turned turtle in Monaco last year due to its conductor's neglect of rear view mirrors?



Anders - sorry no, but there was a car in identical livery at silverstone in july, that was where the posted wishbone picture came from - it could have been the sister car though.



Tony,

Reference your post of 23 April 08:28:

Flexure joints with long fatigue life have been used on cars for ages: Leaf springs. A modern F1 flexure joint is but a leaf spring, albeit with more complex shape transitions.

When the left and right links are on the same fixture in the centre or side by side, they remind me of the early cooper's! (but upside down)

Peter

As I have a car that when/if finished will be suspended on four quarter-elliptical springs I understand the principal, it's just seeing such a tiny piece of metal doing the a similar job - alright, I know the main springing medium is the torsion bar - is, to me, wonderful, but I sometimes think you engineers lose your sense of wonder ;). Either that or I am easily wonderified! To me, valve springs are less surprising, as although they have a fantastic work-rate at high temperature, the concept is relatively ancient, and I always think of coil-springs as being torsion bars wound into a spiral. Somehow, to me, a non-engineer, torsional stress is perhaps less destructive than bending. I've never managed to break a piece of wire by twisting it in opposite directions, but then it's easier just to bend it backwards and forwards. If you tell me the stresses are the same I will believe you implicitly! One last point - a broken valve spring - and ALL springs can and do break - is less likely to pitch you into a barrier than a broken flex-joint!

I hate to think of you being buggered, Marc, so I will put you out of your misery! If by dot/dot/dot shading you mean the stippling on the B&W cutaways, such as the tyre side-walls etc., that is done with an 0.3 Rapidograph pen, you just dot, dot,.....dot until the job is done. Actually it is not as tedious as it sounds, and although I have never heard of a speed record, I was pretty fast! The hardest part is spacing the dots so you dont get clumps or obvious gaps, it ruins the final effect. The air-filter on the ink-line version of the Ilmor V10 was a lot of stippling, and may have been 0.4, but tyres are not too big and castings have lots of shapes to accentuate, which helps with the tedium.



The cross-hatching, for so it is called, on the carbon bits of colour cutaways is paint put on with a ruling pen - one of those lovely old tools that will probably not be available much longer. I used German ruling pens with 'hard' tips, as gouache is surprisingly abrasive on water colour board, standard 'soft' tips wear away very quickly. However, the 'hard' tips are fragile, and a snapped tip is a pain as the pens were - at the turn of the Century - about £100 each.

Aren't modern-day use of 'Flexures' in F1 another John Barnard innovation? IIRC, he used them on the Ferrari 412 or '94 because a Rose-joint (or whatever they're called in your region - a Uni-ball joint, Spherical bearing, etc..) - while low friction in the unloaded situation - actually posesses quite a lot of 'stiction' when heavily loaded. He did remark at the time that "you need to get your crippling calculations right".

When I was at College we had to do torsional testing on round steel rods. From these tests we learnt that a steel rod can experience a plastic failure where the imposed torsional load drops off, but the rod doesn't break. Of course it didn't take very long, when the lecturere was looking the other way, to doctor a couple of test pieces by taking them past torsional failure, nipping over to the machine shop, and removing the spiralmarks off the outside, and then putting them back with the test samples ready for some unsuspecting student who then could not get the correct strength when they tested them.

You little devil, Robin!

I think Colin Chapman specified needle-roller bearings in the suspension of the 77 specifically to avoid the 'stiction'. I would have thought that once a car is on the move the stiction would almost disappear, but I'm probably giving ever more ammunition to those that know more than me - I am filled with trepidation already...

I believe IrishMariner is right that JB introduced flexures for the current application of wishbone mounts.

With regard to the needle roller bearings at Lotus, I recall Nigel Bennett commenting on this once (having been there at the time), saying that they couldn't measure a performance advantage from them (meaning presumably, on the stopwatch). However, if they 'd had access to present day methods (i.e using a seven post rig) they would probably have found an increase in the average contact patch load. Certainly nowadays the pursuit of low friction in the suspension joints is considered essential.

Thanks
Nigel

Hi Tony!
I found at my library a review on Penske PC-9 with your Cutaway.
For my thesis of Masters degree I am tracing a parallel one among the most varied configurations of chassis in several categories.
Did you do or does he/she know about the existence of a cutaway of the chassis Eagle of 1972/73 of Indy 500?
rgds

Paulo Coimbra

Hi Paulo

Do not recall a cutaway. There were some Buhrer illustrations in February 1973 Road & Track.

Stephen

Hi Stephen
That chassis had an interesting project. I also never saw a cutaway of him, but in my country, it is difficult to find publications that reproduce that illustration type. Everything that I have of more complete on Motoring, got buying magazines American, French, Italian and Englishmen.
We will wait for master Tony he/she to answer us
thank you!
rgds
Paulo Coimbra

Hi Paulo, Tony (he) here, I did not draw the '72/'73 Eagle unfortunately, my first ChampCar cutaway was the Penske PC6, and I only started drawing ChampCar chassis other than Penske in '83 with the Vermont Tools March 83C.

Paulo's posts with he/she in it have prompted me to ask..... any cutaway artist
of the "she" gender known by anyone ?
I have posted this Dagrada F Jr by "Emily" before, but anyone know if he/she was/is
a she or he ?
Maybe the name is a nom de plume ?


and......has anyone seen more cutaways by Emily ?

Emily could be a surname, Marc.

As Tony may be close to exhausting his treasure trove of scans of his bnilliant work suitable for posting here, and as the thread has gone a bit quiet of late, I thought I'd post this isometric ghost view "artist's" impression I drew in the very early days of the development programme for Denmark's first satellite:



Now is a rather fitting time to post it, as Ørsted has recently celebrated its tenth anniversary in orbit, succesfully charting the Earth's magnetic field in unprecedented detail. Ørsted was, IIRC, originally designed for just two year's active duty, but it's still going strong after a decade.

I'll admit that's it's somewhat off-topic, but it does go around in circles at great speed, with extremely consistent lap times and everything managed telemetrically. And the sketch is proof for Tony that I have used ellipse guides occassionally...

Tony,
Excuse me the " he/she "...
I forgot to revise the translator's text...rs
I think that no artist drew Bobby Unser's Eagle " Sansonite "...
But I am seeking...
Cutaway of Penske that you drew is PC9B with stickers of Norton, by Rick Mears...
rgds

As things have gone a bit quiet of late, I thought I would start the ball rolling again with one of Tony's cutaways. This time it's the Tyrrell 005 but again I think there was afine line between the 005 and 006. Maybe somebody could start the discussion/argument?

Lunch break here.

Rance,

I'm sure that Peter Elleray and Doug Nye can reel off the differences between 005 and 006. The more obvious ones, to me at least, are that 006 had pyramid-shaped crush pads bolted on to the tub sides, the tall (and IMO much less attractive) "Trident" air box extension and the rear wing moved much further aft. IIRC, 005 was retrofitted to 006-like spec.

005 was, IMO, such a neat, unified design in its initial incarnation - later updates very much spoiled its elegance of line, IMO. I can still remember when seeing photos of 005 for the first time that I felt it looked so different, modern and very small - the faired-in engine and airbox really set set a new standard of neatness compared with the exposed engine which had by then become a sort of 3L F1 trade mark.

The Tyrrell 005 cutaway was done in a bit of a rush and without the amount of info. that I needed to do much better, so, sorry! It really doesn't show a great deal of the tub, and for some reason I left the '...WART' on the airbox. Sometimes when you are concentrating really hard you become blind to something obvious, but I had the chance to alter it between the rough drawing and the finished artwork - but I didn't - and I live to regret it!

When I did the 007 I think I made up for it, a much better cutaway, my first colour cutaway for Motor Sport, and liked sufficiently by 'The Management' for others to be asked for. I was told that Bob Tyrrell was particularly pleased, and Tyrrell used it a few times in their publicity material.

For Paulo, the Penske PC9B - I'm sorry about the strong blue caste - and no logos, this was the 'bare' cutaway, the logos were added later on an overlay, and I don't have any reference for these. Norton and Gould Charge were the two main sponsors, Norton had a yellow 'flash' and Gould had, I think, a red one. It was only when I dug out this old 35mm transparency that I realised I did the PC9, 9B and 10! It will always be a slight regret that I was never able to do a 'Big Book of Penskes', having done so many, but there was no interest.



Edited to say that I've just remembered that this cutaway had my scribble actually on the artwork rather than under it, it was a period when I was a bit miffed about my signature being removed, even though I didn't like to 'contaminate' the illustration.

Tony, thank you!
It is this same cutaway that I have in a book. The chassis of Penske are also interesting, they seemed still a lot with those of Bobby Unser's Eagle " Sansonite " in the robust structure front and of reinforcements of the cockpit. Rick Mears and Kevin Cogan cars that alternated different sponsors like Norton blue /yelow/vermelho and Gould azul/branco/red filets.
I am always a long time admiring your works and it is interesting to see like them it is developing with the time! In spite of seeing that your drawings was always fantastic!
rgds

This bit about signature removal I just do not understand. In my view it would be like their patrons asking the Old Masters not to sign their great works. Plain daft! (and extremely discourteous to you, Tony).

quote:
________________________________________
Originally posted by Tony Matthews


Keep up, Marc, keep up!
________________________________________


You mean I am not ahead at 13 when the rest is panting around at 26 ?

By the time I have caught up the 13 laps I am lagging behind, this thread may have run it’s stay.


Paulo Coimbra

But I am seeking...
Cutaway of Penske that you drew is PC9B with stickers of Norton, by Rick Mears......



..........Rick Mears drove the Gould PC9B, Bobby Unser the Norton liveried one.


T Matthews.........the logos were added later on an overlay, and I don't have any reference for these.


Maybe Ibsen and I are allowed to post the fully logo’d versions we have for your interest.

By the way, very interesting Master’s degree you must be doing chasing up and analyzing racing car cutaways !!!!