The cutaway drawing and its artists

Tony, here is the Bedford M1120.

Is it one by your hand ?

Edited by macoran, 05 November 2009 - 18:16.

Wow! That was quick! Yes Marc, my own hand. I wanted to do the Military version as well, they considered it but then decided against it. Pity, it looked great with bigger wheels and tyres, gun racks, circular roof hatch and olive drab paint...

But, of course, I can stop share my collection ...

Please don't stop !

Wow! That was quick! Yes Marc, my own hand. I wanted to do the Military version as well, they considered it but then decided against it. Pity, it looked great with bigger wheels and tyres, gun racks, circular roof hatch and olive drab paint...

That would've been snazzy !! Did you do many HGV cutaways ?

That would've been snazzy !! Did you do many HGV cutaways ?

No. Just that and a couple of refuse vehicles, a 6x6 chassis, a fire tender chassis and a fire-engine cab.

No. Just that and a couple of refuse vehicles, a 6x6 chassis, a fire tender chassis and a fire-engine cab.

Wouldn't mind seeing more, nowhere in the thread title says that it has to be a racing car.

Sticking bits of DB3S together

Edited by macoran, 05 November 2009 - 22:18.

Hi ,

I am looking for drawings of CanAm cars (McLaren M8D, M8F, BRM P154, P167, Autocoast ti22, Ferrari 712M 1971, Lola t220, t260, Porsche 917 PA 1969, 917/10 1971, March 707, 717, Shadow 1970, 1971).

Do they exist ?

Many thanks, best regards !

André Acker.

Andre, Do you have the M8A cutaway by Mati Palk?

Cheers
Lee

A reader for most of this year who has just registered. I find this thread in particular to be fantastic.

In addition to the Kimbles already mentioned he has the fabulous cobra cutaway one of which I have on my wall.

Doing a picture search I came across this:


On the website it says: 'Image Copyright Porsche' but doesn't mention the artist.

I just came across another work by David Kimble and it's different as well...

Edited by Duc-Man, 06 November 2009 - 13:42.

Sticking bits of DB3S together

Blimey! I hope the two scans were the same scale, but even that's probably not too much of a problem. Do you want the other bits?

On the website it says: 'Image Copyright Porsche' but doesn't mention the artist.

If you work for a manufacturer you don't get to sign your work! I would say that is 100% CG work, whereas Dave Kimble's illustration (that I can't access) is line and airbrush.

Blimey! I hope the two scans were the same scale, but even that's probably not too much of a problem. Do you want the other bits?

If you are willing to scan I am game to patch and splice.
It will be difficult, because as indicated in the file below I show where 1 degree of slant in one scan will not allow 100% alignment.
Luckily these two were reasonably identically scaled, no problem there.
Your post of the lever arm shock of the DB3S in another thread had been enlarged (to enhance the lever arm shock assembly) so much
that it messed up the pixelation when "shrunk" to fit in with these.


Edited for draconian spelling errors !

Edited by macoran, 06 November 2009 - 18:05.

I understand the problems Marc, but it is very difficult to ensure that the almost-A1 drawing is lined up square on an A4 scanner! Especially as I have to fold bits of it to get it under the lid, then try not to crop the scan and get a slightly different scale - I'll do my best.

I didn't know you spoke Draconian! Is there no end to your talents?

Edited by Tony Matthews, 06 November 2009 - 18:20.

I understand the problems Marc, but it is very difficult to ensure that the almost-A1 drawing is lined up square on an A4 scanner! Especially as I have to fold bits of it to get it under the lid, then try not to crop the scan and get a slightly different scale - I'll do my best.

I didn't know you spoke Draconian! Is there no end to your talents?

Tony
Any bits of your working drawings that you pass on to us must be considered as gifts. Just ball park scales and rotation and let us worry about the rest. The difference in rotation between your db3s scans was less than 0.5 degree, you aren't going to do much better. The program that came with my scanner will rotate an image in 1 degree increments and another image program was available through Apple that rotated an image +/- 1 degree in 0.1 degree increments. We have the tools. So, more please; if you could sir.

Al

Mercedes-McLaren SLR

OK I've got those now Tony

Have e-mailed you

Edited by macoran, 07 November 2009 - 00:26.

I have no idea what I'm doing. First time I've tried to post an image. Who knows what is going to show up, but this is a pass at a composite of Tony's DB3S working drawings.

Al

http://img294.images...rtindb3swd.jpg/][IMG]http://img294.images...indb3swd.th.jpg

Well, despite your concern it's there! I could have saved several people a deal of work by getting an A4 print and doing one scan - but then I know some people, myself included, like a challenge!

Chaparral 2D by Vic Berris



Ibsen

Fabulous one IBSEN !

That's what i really call a "sport car" ! i really like all the little arrows showing the air vents paths.

Merci

Edited by Daytona 935, 08 November 2009 - 19:58.

Heres a novelty. The Cosworth DFY engine drawn by a woman!!!! Diana Stevens. Now I'm not sexist but in my professional career as an illustrator I have only ever come across one woman illustrator and she switched to admin. Does anyone know of work by any other women illustrators?

Another Cosworth DFY cutaway - by Keith Harmer



Ibsen

Giulio Betti's Fiat Dino V6 engine.

Cosworth DFV by Theo Page



Cosworth DFV by Bruno Betti



and Cosworth DFV by Vic Berris



Ibsen

I actually had forgotten that we hadn't done the DFVs yet

A better scan of the Vic Berris's DFV is welcome.

Ibsen

I actually had forgotten that we hadn't done the DFVs yet

I didn't realize so many different illustrators had done the DFV. I was going to but decided the DFX was more interesting as it was fairly new at the time, and I was trying to get into the Indy Car market. It's interesting that Diana Stevens is the only one to show the central vibration damper, involving lots of little torsion bars - difficult to make out at that resolution, but I'm sure they are there! Theo Page's cutaway was, I think, the first of the DFV, cetainly the most used illustration, although Vic Berris' looks 'older', almost Victorian! They may have been done before the vibration damper was installed, it wasn't used initially, only introduced after timing-gear tooth breakage problems showed up.

One thing I would say is that I am not too happy with red-coloured sections on cutaways, they overpower the rest of the artwork. I notice G Betti used it, B Betti didn't. I think Kieth Harmer's cutaway must have been done quite late in the DFV's life, judging by the technique, although I know that Diana Stevens' drawing is of a late-series engine.

Any more DFV's?

The Keith Harmer's DVF is a coloured mirror of the Diana Stevens's one, or am I wrong?

Ibsen

A better scan of the Vic Berris's DFV is welcome.

Ibsen

I think I have one somewhere, I'll look after getting some shuteye first

The Keith Harmer's DVF is a coloured mirror of the Diana Stevens's one, or am I wrong?

Ibsen

I've put them on screen side by side and I think you are correct !

I've put them on screen side by side and I think you are correct !

I think so too, but at the moment I can't access the larger views, so I'm looking at postage stamps. I thought you were going to bed Marc!

The drawing begins with a 3-mil, frosted sheet of mylar drafting film taped onto a sheet of foam core board. The foam core board allows the drawing to be moved as necessary for best access to the area being worked on. The mylar surface responds extremely well to pencil. I use .3mm 2H and 4H lead in a mechanical pencil. The first layer of mylar is only used to draw the perpective grid for the subject.

when you say "perceptive grid" do you mean you are only laying out the ground plane in the chosen perspective?

Once it is complete and registration marks are added, a new sheet of mylar is taped over it and the actual drawing begins.

is this new sheet of mylar frosted as well? It can be seen through well enough over the perspective plane/ base drawing?

When the draft drawing is complete, a new sheet of the same type of mylar is taped over it and an inking is made using a 0.18mm Rapidograph. ( 0.12mm for tiny bits)

again, all of these layers of mylar are of the same material, frosted mylar, same 3-mil thickness?

Next it's off to printer to have a litho film-positive produced. You must specify that the finished piece of film is made as clear as possible since it will become the medium for the painting. At times, I've had to have two or three films made before getting an acceptable one.

I'm assuming the litho film positive is on a clear sheet of acetate?

The film is now flipped over (wrong reading) and taped onto a fresh piece of foam core board and the airbrushing begins using gouche. The advantage of the film is that if a mistake is made, it can simply be washed away with a paper towell and a touch of saliva. This process can can repeated over and over without anyone ever knowing you messed up. Generally, the basic painting is all done on the back side. When it is near complete, the film is flipped back to the front and fine tuning begins. Color and value adjustments are made without disturbing the core painting on the back side.

Additional layers of film can be added as overlay paintings as needed. For example, graphics, color schemes or component parts such as different engine covers.

Hope this helps.

again, at the film positive stages, these are all clear acetate layers?

Before you answer, I simply want to thank you, Tom, for that information. I am grateful and acknowledge your giving.

Chad ;)

Edited by VisualHomage, 10 November 2009 - 09:57.

I've put them on screen side by side and I think you are correct !

Yep, the colour version has just been flipped! So, completely wrong, cylinder offset wrong, gears wrong, pumps wrong - a waste of effort. The way Mr Inomoto exaggerates is not my way, but it is acceptable, I think, because he does not pretend that his illustrations are completely accurate. But to produce artwork that is so far wrong - I just can't see the point. You can use an existing illustration - with permission, hopefully - but you should alter it to make it work as technical illustration!

Tom's going to wake up to a lot of questions!

Edited by Tony Matthews, 10 November 2009 - 15:21.

[quote name='VisualHomage' date='Nov 10 2009, 10:50' post='3987638']
when you say "perceptive grid" do you mean you are only laying out the ground plane in the chosen perspective?


is this new sheet of mylar frosted as well? It can be seen through well enough over the perspective plane/ base drawing?


again, all of these layers of mylar are of the same material, frosted mylar, same 3-mil thickness?


I'm assuming the litho film positive is on a clear sheet of acetate?



again, at the film positive stages, these are all clear acetate layers?

Before you answer, I simply want to thank you, Tom, for that information. I am grateful and acknowledge your giving.

For the pencil work, all of the medium is the 3-mil frosted mylar. I use the 3-mil because it is easier to see through than the thicker 5-mil mylar.

The perspective grid is three-axis, simply an X/Y/Z axis in two D. For example, when drawing a car, I start with the X axis (longitudinal). Project the lines out to where they intersect. Next is the Y axis, (lateral). Find parts on the car at its front and back that you know are parallel on the real car, and project each line out until they intersect. Now do the Z axis, (vertical). Again, identify parts of the car that you know are parallel with each other and perfectly vertical with respect to the ground. Project out to their intersection. While building this grid system, is is very important that you understand your subject. I once was laying out a grid of an airplane based from a photograph and got deep (days)
into the drawing when it started to look all out of wack. I discovered a mistake while laying out the X axis, having assumed that the top of the vertical stabiliser was level and parallel with the ground. It was not, even though at first it appeared to be in the photograph. The front tip was actually tilted up an inch so it was indeed not level with the ground.
To avoid this mistake, it is worth the effort to get an good engineering 3-view plan of the subject. This excercise will also allow you to get more intimate with the subject, after all, the whole point of the illustration process is to present information and it must be accurate.

Geez, that was a lot of words. Hope you're not swamped. Re. the film positives - yes, they are all clear acetate layers. Let me emphasize once more that it is CRUCIAL that the films be made as clear as possible. Even the best made film pos will have a slight tint of greyin it which be obvious when it is layed over a nice white piece of foam core board.
This becomes more of a problem when doing multiple layers. If the films are cheesy, when stacked up the white background will become mud - not a good thing!

For more information on building perspective grids, please visit:www.khulsey.com/student.html. There is a lot of good stuff on his site.

Forgot about the frisket. I use 'Frisk' brand low-tack frisket. It works best with the film pos. Also, for creating highlights, experiment with different erasers. Erasers will also reveal the mixture ratio of the gouche. If it is mixed too thin, the eraser can't get a "bite", and won't work at all.

Tom

Edited by Tom Johnson, 10 November 2009 - 15:24.

Forgot about the frisket. I use 'Frisk' brand low-tack frisket.

Did you use the Frisk film 'straight' Tom, or reduce the tack even more? Obviously there is no risk of roughening the surface or even ripping it as there is on paper, but it occured to me that it might adhere a little too well on film! One of the few tips I was given was from a friend who was a Graphic Designer for 'Motor' magazine amongst others, and he described how the airbrush artists rubbed the tacky side over the edge of their desks to remove some of the adhesive. I ended up using my knee, well-washed denim stretched tight, the occasional minute fibre was not a problem.

Did you use the Frisk film 'straight' Tom, or reduce the tack even more? Obviously there is no risk of roughening the surface or even ripping it as there is on paper, but it occured to me that it might adhere a little too well on film! One of the few tips I was given was from a friend who was a Graphic Designer for 'Motor' magazine amongst others, and he described how the airbrush artists rubbed the tacky side over the edge of their desks to remove some of the adhesive. I ended up using my knee, well-washed denim stretched tight, the occasional minute fibre was not a problem.

I used the edge of the desk method. I found Frisk on film frustrating as it stuck too well if used straight from the roll. The worse result was a crease in the film if the mask wasn't removed with care.

It's interesting the different methods of working that have appeared on this thread. Working the way Tom does is totally alien to me, but I can see why he does it and the results are spectacular. I've never really been able to work the way Tony does, by using the same surface for the pencil construction and the final rendering. By the time I'd finished the pencil work the surface would be knackered. I always did the construction on tracing paper and pressed it through to board for the final piece...even then I could still make a mess of it.

I've never really been able to work the way Tony does, by using the same surface for the pencil construction and the final rendering. By the time I'd finished the pencil work the surface would be knackered. I always did the construction on tracing paper and pressed it through to board for the final piece...even then I could still make a mess of it.

Alan, I stopped doing the pencil work on CS2 and then painting over it a considerable time ago - for the very reason you mention! That's why I'm able to post bits of construction work, it was all done on drafting film. It was then pressed through, giving a pristine painting surface and thin grey (or red) lines to paint to. It wasn't an overnight switch, it started with small, complex areas being drawn on film, untill I realised I could do the complete cutaway on film first. I think the Penske PC17 was the first complete film drawing - so 1988.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 10 November 2009 - 15:57.

Did you use the Frisk film 'straight' Tom, or reduce the tack even more? Obviously there is no risk of roughening the surface or even ripping it as there is on paper, but it occured to me that it might adhere a little too well on film! One of the few tips I was given was from a friend who was a Graphic Designer for 'Motor' magazine amongst others, and he described how the airbrush artists rubbed the tacky side over the edge of their desks to remove some of the adhesive. I ended up using my knee, well-washed denim stretched tight, the occasional minute fibre was not a problem.

Ahhh... the on-going battle of obtaining suitable materials to perform our tasks. Over the years, getting a frisket to behave properly was always a pain in the ass. Some rolls would stick to the film more than others. If that occurred, the frisket would be applied to a piece of foam core first, slightly pressed down to remove some of the tack, then applied to the film. With time, I found it best to simply not to leave the frisket on for more than a couple of hours, especially if it was hot and humid in the room. This required that I work in small areas at a time, with multiple applications of frisketing to get the job done. It also meant using an awful lot of the stuff! A typical 24" X 36" illustration would need about three rolls of frisket.

With time, I found it best to simply not to leave the frisket on for more than a couple of hours, especially if it was hot and humid in the room.

Low tack turns into Araldite in the blink of an eye!

This required that I work in small areas at a time, with multiple applications of frisketing to get the job done. It also meant using an awful lot of the stuff! A typical 24" X 36" illustration would need about three rolls of frisket.

THREE rolls? Wow, Tom, I hope you had shares in Frisk! Assuming the same size rolls as in the UK - I reckon I could get several full-airbrush illustrations out of one roll. Thank goodness I don't have to do it anymore, although once I'd got into the routine I quite enjoyed it, and it could be quite exciting peeling the mask off to reveal a pristine bit of new illustration.

PS I'll check the roll size - I've still got one somewhere, along with enough drafting film for another 50 cutaways...

THREE rolls? Wow, Tom, I hope you had shares in Frisk! Assuming the same size rolls as in the UK - I reckon I could get several full-airbrush illustrations out of one roll. Thank goodness I don't have to do it anymore, although once I'd got into the routine I quite enjoyed it, and it could be quite exciting peeling the mask off to reveal a pristine bit of new illustration.

PS I'll check the roll size - I've still got one somewhere, along with enough drafting film for another 50 cutaways...

I've spent a fortune on Frisk film and DeVilbiss Airbrush needles over the years:eek:

When I was at College in Luton they had this massive roll of masking film that lasted about 3 years. I've no idea what make it was, but it was bloody good. Nothing crept underneath it and it came off easliy.

I've spent a fortune on Frisk film and DeVilbiss Airbrush needles over the years:eek:

When I was at College in Luton they had this massive roll of masking film that lasted about 3 years. I've no idea what make it was, but it was bloody good. Nothing crept underneath it and it came off easliy.

I don't remember that Alan - perhaps they got it after I left - bastards! Not that we were allowed to use the airbrush much, but a nice set-up, all those little recievers along the worktop under the window. I 'rescued' an early DeVilbiss compressor from MN when I left, green rather than maroon, very Victorian, but then I bought a Hydrovane, as I wanted to run air tools off it as well! I feel sorry for anyone trying to airbrush using canisters, as Mr Coleman said, the money made from mustard comes from what people leave on their plates - I reckon 90% of the air is used cleaning the brush between reloads.

I think that sraying on CS10 would be great for masking, as it has such a hard, smooth surface, and if you are using inks you don't get any 'build-up' to speak of, but I found CS2 Hot Pressed gave me the result I wanted and allowed a bit of brushwork on small detail - more easily than on CS10.

Tom, I have a deal of admiration for the way you and David Kimble worked in that fashion - mind boggling.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 11 November 2009 - 16:56.

Tom, I have a deal of admiration for the way you and David Kimble worked in that fashion - mind boggling.
[/quote]

Yes indeed. My mind unfortunately got quite boggled over time which is why I don't paint that way anymore. The worst part of the film-pos painting method was that you work fairly blind. Since the majority of the painting is done on the back side of the film, you have to work from dark to light to make it read right on the front side. Using opaque gouche meant that as you added lighter tones of different colors over darker ones that it would change the value of the area. This made it hard to judge neighbor values as you built up shapes which is a hard way to render anything.

If I were to do a painting by hand ever again, I definately would give a go at Tony's method. I think using a brush would be more fun. The only reason I never used a brush was that I worked under Dave and he didn't like the paint brush. I prefer the feel of Tony's paintings much better. They have a certain richness and depth to them that is equal to none.

Yes indeed. My mind unfortunately got quite boggled over time which is why I don't paint that way anymore. The worst part of the film-pos painting method was that you work fairly blind. Since the majority of the painting is done on the back side of the film, you have to work from dark to light to make it read right on the front side. Using opaque gouche meant that as you added lighter tones of different colors over darker ones that it would change the value of the area. This made it hard to judge neighbor values as you built up shapes which is a hard way to render anything.

There is a form of painting on the reverse of a piece of glass, which is similar, and requires the same thought process, in that highlights and forground detail go on first, followed by layer on layer untill you get to the background - quite a challenge. I think the Chinese used to use this process to paint insde glass bottles, using brushes with one sable hair! After a few years the artists eyesight would be knackered, so they were discarded.

If I were to do a painting by hand ever again, I definately would give a go at Tony's method. I think using a brush would be more fun. The only reason I never used a brush was that I worked under Dave and he didn't like the paint brush. I prefer the feel of Tony's paintings much better. They have a certain richness and depth to them that is equal to none.

Very kind of you Tom. Now you have mastered the digital process, which I also admire, you may find the desire to try brush painting fading even more, because the aim is to produce the image, not so much to enjoy the process - I miss the creative process, and still want to paint, but I can't make myself do it. A combination of not being sure how I want to paint - how I want the finished painting to look - and the fear of failure, I suppose. I've just spent several weeks repairing, painting and decorating various bits of a lovely old farm house - the only sort of painting I do at the moment.

I don't remember that Alan - perhaps they got it after I left - bastards! Not that we were allowed to use the airbrush much, but a nice set-up, all those little recievers along the worktop under the window. I 'rescued' an early DeVilbiss compressor from MN when I left, green rather than maroon, very Victorian, but then I bought a Hydrovane, as I wanted to run air tools of it as well! I feel sorry for anyone trying to airbrush using canisters, as Mr Coleman said, the money made from mustard comes from what people leave on their plates - I reckon 90% of the air is used cleaning the brush between reloads.

I think that sraying on CS10 would be great for masking, as it has such a hard, smooth surface, and if you are using inks you don't get any 'build-up' to speak of, but I found CS2 Hot Pressed gave me the result I wanted and allowed a bit of brushwork on small detail - more easily than on CS10.

Tom, I have a deal of admiration for the way you and David Kimble worked in that fashion - mind boggling.

We moved to Barnfield College in 1974 and had our own studios built with piped compressed air.

I do believe Hydrovane were from Ickleford, just outside Hitchin. Your neck of the woods.

Very kind of you Tom. Now you have mastered the digital process, which I also admire, you may find the desire to try brush painting fading even more, because the aim is to produce the image, not so much to enjoy the process - I miss the creative process, and still want to paint, but I can't make myself do it. A combination of not being sure how I want to paint - how I want the finished painting to look - and the fear of failure, I suppose. I've just spent several weeks repairing, painting and decorating various bits of a lovely old farm house - the only sort of painting I do at the moment.

My wife said the other day "What would you do if we won the Lottery".

I said "I would paint again".

She said "But you hated it"

I said "No I didn't, It was just what I had to paint"

She said "Pour me another glass of wine"


I would still like to do it, but on my own terms.

We moved to Barnfield College in 1974 and had our own studios built with piped compressed air.

I do believe Hydrovane were from Ickleford, just outside Hitchin. Your neck of the woods.

Redditch, Worcestershire is the only address I have for them Alan, if they started in Ickleford it was a long time ago... I'd forgotten, momentarily, about Barnfield - my son is doing an evening course in Digital Photography there - whenever I think of Technical Illustration at Luton Tech it is the building in the centre of Luton that springs to mind.

I find it quite difficult talking about painting - or any creative process - with people who have no personal experience of the emotional quandry of feeling that you are not completely alive without creating something, but not knowing quite what or how you need to create! Followed, hopefully, by the sudden, all-enveloping realization that this is what you want to create, and this is how to do it, and nothing else matters. It often means that no-one else matters, either, even briefly, which can be hurtful. In the meantime - another glass of wine!

[quote name='Tony Matthews' date='Nov 10 2009, 23:36' post='3988458']


I find it quite difficult talking about painting - or any creative process - with people who have no personal experience of the emotional quandry of feeling that you are not completely alive without creating something, but not knowing quite what or how you need to create! Followed, hopefully, by the sudden, all-enveloping realization that this is what you want to create, and this is how to do it, and nothing else matters. It often means that no-one else matters, either, even briefly, which can be hurtful. In the meantime - another glass of wine!

/quote]

I'll drink to that!

Part of the unfinished Lotus 79, I'm surprised this scanned as well as it has, as the scanner has a raised lip around the glass bed, I didn't think it would focus. However, it has, and this shows a pressed-through line drawing in the process - frozen in time - of turning into full colour. With gouache you can paint over a line and more or less depend on being able to paint the neighbouring item and covering the previous over-paint.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 11 November 2009 - 09:15.

Damn' ! that heat protector made of thin tin between the brakes and the diff is......making me loosing my words !

Part of the unfinished Lotus 79, I'm surprised this scanned as well as it has, as the scanner has a raised lip around the glass bed, I didn't think it would focus. However, it has, and this shows a pressed-through line drawing in the process - frozen in time - of turning into full colour. With gouache you can paint over a line and more or less depend on being able to paint the neighbouring item and covering the previous over-paint.

This is very cool to see, Tony! Thanks for sharing. Realise I don't paint with a brush (yet), but I am surprised that you don't have to over-stroke the colour further into neighbouring bits. Also, how to you get such a wide range of values for any given colour? Does your pallette get pretty complicated?

Iso Rivolta by ?lloisi (this name is new for me, who is this?)