Great, I can post now we have passed that 4000 barrier! Out of respect for the core contributors who have provided us with a real education and insight into the history of this wonderful practice. I kept my counsel until the 'big one' had passed

You know, I found it really fascinating when you first mentioned the possible use/reading of the draughtsman's drawing as a 'tool' as a part of the process of producing a technical illustration, it just never occurred to me, it should have, but obviously if you are seeking that most 'fundamental' level of information, can there really be a better source/starting point than the engineering drawing, assuming you can accurately interpret the drawing. Which clearly begs the question, do your illustrations adhere to any particular level of tolerance and fit Tony?

Seriously though, I realise that being given access to engineering drawings or very detailed technical information beforehand is probably neither common nor necessarily a prerequisite. It could be argued that an initial lack of information is one of the primary challenges you face as a technical illustrator and you have given us numerous examples of how, in being denied certain information rather than 'make it up' you have instead applied engineering principles and attempted to work out a particular process or mechanism yourself in order to 'get it right'. However, on which work do you feel that you were provided with or were able to amass the most satisfactory levels of preparatory information beforehand? And beyond possibly reducing the lead time did this in your opinion necessarily make for an easier process as well as a better final work?

BRM H-16 'Theo Page'

Sorry I missed that. I should have left it for Bonde

I think it would be impossible to do any serious Technical Illustration without the ability to read Engineering Drawings.

For instance, this was produced using a photo for external detail but all the internal parts were drawn completely from plans.

I was worried that it might be like waiting for Anders when we were on#2999! What a relief - a bit like the dreaded 40th birthday, the next day you realise that in fact you feel just the same! I was aware that #4000 was approaching at about #3750, but then forgot about it. I suppose it's a bit like being on Death Row for twenty years - nineteen years drift past, then one morning you are woken by the warden with "Wakey wakey, sunshine - today's the day! What do you want for breakfast!"



One of the things we were taught at college was reading engineering drawings. You have to be able to do it, and at a fudamental level that is what the job is all about - taking engineering drawings and interpreting them in a way that any non-engineer can understand. Sometimes all you have is ED's, the machine/sub-assembly/part may not have been made, but an illustration is still needed. I drew the Ilmor 265A without ever seeing a complete engine, I saw a lot of parts before I finished the drawing, but to start, all I had was a bunch of ED's. This is common, nearly every illustrator can and has worked this way. My aeromodelling was a big help, as I had been poring over model plans for years, probably from eight years old, puzzling over geodetic glider wing construction and so on.

As to tolerence and fit - unless you mean "Can I tolerate doing this job?" and "Will it fit my drawing board?" - as I have said before, engines have lots of bits all in contact with their neighbouring bits, 'fit' is all-important, 'tolerence' not so, and sometimes you need to use artistic license, although I hate it, I'd rather use a bit of lateral thinking to get round a problem.



It is fairly common, or was, to be given reasonable information. It depends how the job is commissioned. If a sponsor insists on a car cutaway but the constructor is unhappy about it, and particularly if you are not known to them, it can be a bit tricky. If the constructor commissions it, there is generally more willingness to help. You also come across individuals within organisations that are more or less sympathetic! It's great when you are seen to be struggling with a sub-assembly by a friendly storeman who says "I've got one of those in bits in the store - come with me!" Sorry about the change of tense here and there, I sometimes forget I'm not illustrating anymore!



It is possible to have too much information - you only need enough, more than enough is a burden, or takes up space and wastes time. I probably had more information from Ilmor than anyone else, it was a pleasure in more ways than one, and I always hoped that, having been involved in a very small way from the outset, that I might go on to do all their engines, but it wasn't to be. Got a ton of drawings from Benneton, too, for the windtunnel, plus my photographs, but that was a challenge - I have never used a 15mm Nikkor on so many shots! What influences produce a 'better' final work I'm not sure. This is where the art side creeps in, although I will always call it Technical Illustration. Perhaps it's the phases of the moon...

Well, there we were Alan, both tapping away saying the same thing, only yours was precise and to the point, while mine was 'War and Peace - the Illustration'! As a matter of interest I did all my engine cutaways from the inside out untill the Ilmor Mercedes 500I, then all subsequent engines/gearboxes from the outside in...

I consider you to be one of the 'elite' there are about eight or nine of you on here, deep historical/research knowledge, deep practical knowledge, it is probably difficult to appreciate unless you are a 'technical illustration' outsider like myself, but as I have said before this really is one of the best 'threads' on the internet let alone Autosport, 4000+ is testament to this.

Fascinating explanations as usual. Thanks to you both. You have really emphasised the 'problem solving aspect' of the production of these types of work. This notion of a 'problem having been solved' I think is something that the viewer picks up on instinctively and definitely contributes to the general sense of awe that the viewer feels when initially faced with the 'reading' of this type of technical illustration.

These two sentences are interesting. Firstly you must have developed a great 'filter' over the years, in terms of deciding just what, what not, to show or reveal.

Beyond the problem solving the other choices that you make must be indicative I suppose of your own style/aesthetic sensibilities. And both these things you could argue are dependent upon that thing 'instinct' which is definitely a thing which you could say is more normally associated with Fine art practice as opposed to draughting. This level of subjectivity does indeed overlap with 'Art' and is no doubt the defining factor in determining whether or not a work is ultimately 'successful' or not. Whether or not it 'works'. Though I am aware that really this is a superficial point since technical illustration has a very definite purpose. That is what makes the cutaway great.

I have seen so much material on the BRM H 16 over the years, that it's hard to believe that there was more great art work "out there".

But apparently there was. Makes me wonder what else I haven't seen ....

One of my College Lecturers regular quotes was "It's not what you put in, it's what you leave out that's important". I've never forgot that and in general the principle is correct.

You and me both! I just feel I missed out on a period of great cars, there are so many I would love to have done...

I was refering to information provided in order to prepare the illustration, not how much to put into the illustration. However, it is also true that you can put in too much! That is why I have always steered clear of cutting away engines, gearboxes and back axles in car cutaways. If I'd ever been asked to do it I would have, but my hope has always been that I would be commissioned to do the engine as well, as a separate illustration! The fact that it only ever happened once is beside the point - and a fitting finale, I suppose. Well, I'm not sure that 'fitting' is quite what I meant, but I would have had this niggle ever after if I had never done it. I did the Penske PC23 and later the magnificent engine, but they were essentially two different projects.



I think you are right, wp, but developing a distinctive style is not a luxury every illustrator is given. If you work in a studio your style has to match the house-style, or you can be freelance and be told what style to use to match other freelancers, or the general style of the publication using your artwork. Commissioning editors, art buyers and magazine staff/publishers, advertising agencies and companies can be very demanding, even unpleasant! They have their jobs to do, they are under pressure, you are just another supplier in the chain.

I don't know if I was lucky to have the chance to develope a style that I gather, from the very complimentary comments made here, is seen as distinctive, or if, in a situation where I was not allowed to do so, I would have stopped sooner. Not a single illustrator who has contributed to this fascinating thread has said anything other than - it is a job!

What do you mean by this bit in bold Tony?

Page's cutaways are so great - artistic. Did he do other commissions for Shell that we have not seen?

That if I had been stuck in a studio, not allowed to develope my own style, I might have stopped illustrating sooner, and got a proper job, like my mother was always telling me!

I don't think you could have done that house style stuff anyway. You strike me as a bit of a rebel!

'Theo Page' Mini





'Theo Page' Mini Cooper

I'm sure Mr. Nye does need my help with his authoring ....

But the inclusion of the Page cutaway in Vol IV would sure be nice!

Shell seemed to have commissioned quite a few and most of them are probably in this thread They seemed to like to vary the artists as well which is good for the fan of these types of illustrations. I don't know of any others by Theo Page that we haven't seen, but I bet they are out there in the cutaway ether. The fun is in the hunt! The experts will know.

unknown artist in this forum: Harold Bubb with the cisitalia 360 by F Porsche

one cresswell drawing:the elva mk4

and the brm p 83 from T Page in a better resolution,I think

That Elva is something else! He really drew the guts of the beast.

I use lightwave for ten years
I've posted some tutorials on magazines cg magazine
if you send me a mail to mail address info@antoniopannullo.it
I can send you the various stages of modeling a Maserati MC 12
but the text is in Italian

visit my animation of r15 flux
www.endurance-series.com/flux-dr-15/4874/

De Tomaso Pantera 1971 'Alloisi Milanesi'

Antonio, was that produced with an actual CFD plug-in?

I have just been back through those 'Gordon Bruce' illustrations posted by Tom West. That Sharknose

Glad that someone looked at those pieces. They are a bit simpler than some of the top-line illustrations, but they are pretty interesting to get a different look at things on occasion. I have just finished up close to 100 assembled scans, and have maybe another 30 or so to complete. Guess I will have to put a few more up here now that the 4000 level has been exceeded.
What that has to do with anything; I don't know.
Tom West

It seems to me, that if the technical illustrator is really good, it doesn't matter whether the subject matter is 'Mechanically' simple or complex, they always, always achieve a consistent level of clarity. They 'show' and 'reveal' clearly. It is something that I really appreciate in a work, sometimes things can be overly fussy.

Ok, no more philosophical ramblings from me today.

Going to put a couple of scans up, as I realized that it has been a while since I did this. Random stuff as it comes up, so don't read any particular association here.
The first post is by Clarence LaTourette out of Sports Car Illustrated. This Lotus Formula 1 was published in April, 1959, and shows the early pre-rear-engined design out of that classic make..
Tom West

This is another LaTourette drawing out of the November, 1960 Sports Car Illustrated. I am not quite sure how the aluminum Buick V8 really qualified as anything approaching a sports car, but they did publish the illustration ... so here it is.
Tom West

I apologize if I have posted these previously, but they are Allington illustrations and well worth a second viewing.
This Brabham BT3 was published in an F1 review in Car & Driver, February, 1965. I used to await those issues every year just because of the cutaways that were always a part of the presentation. Can't imagine that I was the only one to do so.
Tom West

This James Allington BRM F1 was published in the February, 1965 issue of Car & Driver.
I would like to have had larger images of these drawings to work with ... but we do with what we have on occasion.
Tom West

This is another Allington F1 illustration from that Car & Driver review of February, 1965. This is the Cooper Type 68 F1, which will obviously be of interest to you English types.
Enjoy.
Tom West

And another Allington piece from that Car & Driver February, 1965 issue. This is the Lotus 33 that seemed to do fairly well at the time ...
Tom West

Now, you are going to have to sit through a couple of my pieces ... and we go from Allington to Allison with this one.
This is a car that was built by a Hollywood stuntman (real world) who was fairly involved in a variety of activities. Tex Collins had a couple of different Allison engined cars, including this Mustang Funny Car, and a tilt-cab Mack Truck (with two Allisons). These things were pretty spectacular, and they wound up featuring this car in Car Craft Magazine in March of 1971. I only saw this crazy thing run a couple of times, and it really got your attention as it almost vibrated the stands down at Lions Drag Strip. I saw the Mack run only once, and he blew up both of the Allisons about 400 feet or so off the line, throwing something like 50 quarts of oil all over the place.
Tex ended up getting shot and killed from some of his other nefarious activities, which included being an early porn producer (used to cruise around and pick up girls outside of Hollywood High in his Rolls Royce and bring them back to his shop). His son ended up in jail trying to get the car back from a paint shop that was owed money over some work that had been done.
As to the car, it was a pretty meaningless vehicle generally. But it did have a pretty colorful background.
Tom West

Your kidding, these are great. In fact they are so good it appears that it is possible to differentiate either the types of 'boards' used by LaTourette and Allington or perhaps something more mundane, the type of printing process used by Sports Car Illustrated/Car & Driver respectively. I wonder if it is the former and it is the texture of the 'board' used by the illustrator for want of a better term that is being preserved through the printing process.

Anyway, another magnificent selection worthy of hours of study

De Tomaso Pantera cutaway by Alloisi (colour version)



Ibsen

This is another rather unique car that was to be featured in Car Craft Magazine. Don Hampton and Eldon Dye had run various cars over the years, including the Too Bad Coupe, a twin-Chevy Fiat Altered back in the early '60s. They lengthened the chassis and added the Corvette body to be able to run in the local Funny Car wars about ten years later. It was much too heavy and they never did quite get it up to performance, but it did get attention at the time. It ended up meeting its demise in a crash on tour in Australia.
This was published in March of 1970, just to put it into the correct time frame.
Tom West

I was only studying the other monochrome version today wondering what a 'full' colour version would look like. Any info on whether Alloisi himself coloured it? The interior still appears to be slightly monochrome.

This is a typical early 1970s Top Fuel Dragster that was run by Dwight Salisbury and Jim Busby. Busby was known more for his sports car activities generally, and Dwight was to make a bit of a name as quite a strong competitor with this car. They ended up getting hooked up with the Smothers Brothers, who added sponsorship, and the car became the Smothers Brothers Beach Boys dragster. This one was never published. This is one of those that I ended up getting copied with a half-tone neg, and trying to clean it up was a real mess. I probably have more time in the digital image than in the original piece ... should have just redrawn it, as it probably would have been a lot better anyway.
Here it is.
Tom West

Thanks for your kind words on these things. I think that most of the texture you will see relate more to the printing process than the original artwork. I have pointed out the deficiency of the printing on many of these things. Don't get me started on the early Hot Rod magazines, as those things were really horrible.
Will just keep putting some of these up, but will try to post more often for you.
Tom West

The 'stamped' chassis plate. Amazing.

De Tomaso Deauville cutaway by Franco Rosso



TNF Cutaway Index at page 100 updated to post #4042

Ibsen

Magnificent... Perhaps, a scan of good old Jowett Javelin (Autocar, 1951) would be relevant.

Very nice. That is a work by John Ferguson, for the benefit of the 'Master List' on page 100.

Sunbeam 'John Ferguson' (The Autocar)




1932 AJS 'John Ferguson' (The Autocar)




1932 Armstrong Siddeley interior 'John Ferguson' (Not a cutaway, Disclaimer!)

1938 Auto Union 'S.E. Porter' (The Motor)




1954 Austin Cambridge 'S.E. Porter'

Have you ever had a go at the 'Flying Wedge' Tom? I'm not sure if I have got the name quite right, but it was a McLaren orange car, looked quite deadly.

Thanks for the Jowett Javelin scan - as the only TNF'er who owns one!

And you will find an R4 on page 97.

In return we would typically expect a full working drawing of your own car, by your own hand as soon as is reasonably possible.

no it is not a CFD animation but a rendering movie to show the technical deficiencies of r15 and flow of air that should not go through the back of the car