I remember Tommy Johns and he was another of those riders who seemed to just fit into the bike and become one. Tommy won the champioship on a TD1C yamaha and i think he just beat another very stylish rider who rode for my Father Doug,Syd Stacey also on a yamaha who also had the skill to just blend into the bike.This was the era of having your elbows and knees well tucked in which to me was real class as you were not fighting the bike but at one with it.
sorry went on a bit of a ramble.
Peter

Frank Cope used to come out to South Africa on an annual basis to do a race or two - I believe it was the only place he could do so, on account of his age.

He latterly rode a Yamaha 250 (a Norton prior to this) and it was on this bike that he had his crash at the Roy Hesketh circuit in Pietermaritzburgin the early seventies. It was a strange accident, it was on the pit straight after Angels Angle and I think the bike must have seized and upended him - he was hospitalised for a while and was discharged, but sadly did not live for too much longer thereafter, as I recall.

He was very popular and a lovely bloke, I should have a picture of him somewhere and will post it if I can find it, and work out how to post it

Frank Cope was a regular visitor to SA as it was the only place he could still race bikes. i think there was a 55 year age limit somewhere and it was not applicable in SA.He first came to race in SA with the young SMBH and Dave Chadwick in 57. I seem to recall he also won the PE200 race in about 57/58 and was a regular visitor every year after that.
Peter
PS Did my eyes deceive me or was a picture posted with a knees out rider on a 7R just after my last post on tidy well tucked in riders.

I think Frank was shipped home and died not long afterwards.

Your eyesight is fine Peter - juxtaposing him with the great Hocking was just too offensive.

Is Gary the only Welsh born rider to win a world championship? And have there been any Brit world champs who were not English?

Hello again Russ , seems I am following you round the Forums How about Jock Taylor sidecar of course, and Joey Dunlop F750 ? Northern Ireland being part of GB

Hi Phil, of course, forgot about the outfits. Yes, and Joey , but not sure what he won?

Interesting questions!

I suppose that you could say that Jim R was a Rhodesian Brit when he won his championships albeit that he was born an Englishman. Gary was, of course, also a Rhodesian Brit when he won his championships.

Fergus Anderson would qualify having been a Scot who won two WCs.

Russ Joey won the TT F1 ' World Championships' in 82/3

Yeah, but apart from Fergus Anderson, Joey Dunlop, Jock Taylor, Jim Redman and Gary Hocking - what have the Romans ever done for us?

Given us rubbish bikes and riders none worth talking about

drains?


only monty python fans will get this

I guess if you accept that Aussies did not cease to be British subjects until, I think, 1984 then you've got to include Keith Campbell, Tom Phillis, Kel Carruthers and Jack Findlay.

Yeah, well, drains goes without saying, but apart from......

I think you're right. It could also still be the case that the Privy Council in London is their highest court? Not so any longer in Zim I suppose?

Not the most pressing issue facing Zim I know, but is any sort of road racing continuing to go on there? And if I'm correct in thinking that it has effectively stopped, how and when did this happen ?

I don't really know but I would think it ceased there quite a few years ago.

I thought I might throw in for discussion this little piece I wrote a few years ago.

"Having been amazed on an on-going basis by the angle at which road
racers lean their bikes in corners these days I finally decided to
measure that angle by the simple expedient of recording a race on video
tape, pausing it in the middle of an on-board camera shot, and measuring
said angle. This came out surprisingly consistently at about 57 degrees
from the vertical or 33 degrees to the horizontal which I found
astounding until I re-read a section of the Hailwood/Macauley book
"Hailwood" which mentions that Dunlop had measured Mike's angle of lean
on the MV at 59 degrees and this in the mid sixties!

There is a difference of course which is the modern riding style whereby
the rider shifts his weight into the inside of the turn thus effectively
reducing the angle of lean for the motorcycle itself. If one was able to
acurately estimate the effective position of the combined centre of
gravity and draw a line through it to the point of contact with the road
then one could measure the effective angle of lean which would obviously
be greater than 57 degrees.

What does all this mean? Well, by applying simple maths to the question
it means that if a machine is laid over 57 degrees it is pulling 1.54
horizontal g through the corner which is truly remarkable in Mike's case
with the tyre technology available then. If we assume that by hanging
off the bike on the inside increases the effective lean by, say, 6
degrees then the machine is pulling 1.96 horizontal g through the
corner! If the effective lean, as I suspect, is increased by more than
6 degrees by hanging to the inside then the effective horizontal g is even
higher. By comparing these horizontal g figures to a Porsche Boxster S
which pulled 0.93 g in a Road and Track Magazine road test one gets some
idea of the cornering potential of modern and older racing machines."

That's interesting stuff Maridadi , particularly since by the mid sixties the only competition tyre available was the Dunlop Triangular, commonly thought to be inferior to the widely used product produced by Avon until about '63. Anyone out there use both?

Hello, I'm new around here. I'm Ton, 53 years of age and live in the Netherlands. Is there anybody out there who can help me with pictures or information about Dennis Lashmar. ( D.G.Lashmar)
Dennis was a very talented road racer between 1948 and 1954. In 1949 he won the 1000cc Clubmans TT on a Vincent-HRD.
After some years wandering with Norton and AJS his talent was recognised by the great Geoff Duke who entered Dennis for the 1954 Junior and Senior TT.
The machines for 1954 were Pike-BSA's built by his friend Roland Pike. Roland built these two Pike-BSA's two years earlier and raced them in the 1952 TT , however without luck. Both bikes retired with mechanical failures.
In 1954 Dennis finished 32nd in the Junior and 21st in the Senior TT with these special BSA's.
If you are interested in these BSA's see my website ; www.pike-bsa.com
Dennis sadly lost his life during the German Grand Prix of 1954 riding the 500c Pike-BSA

I own the 350cc Pike-BSA and already have a lot of pictures and info on Roland and Dennis and the Pike-BSA's but all further info and pictures are very welcome.
Many thanks in advance

That's an interesting comment Russell. The Dunlop test where they measured his angle of lean at 59 degrees was when he was riding for MV which was from '61 to the end of '65 so it could have been with either tyre depending upon when they carried out the test. I have no idea which manufacturer MV were contracted to in that period.

I'm not making much sense with the above as, if it was a Dunlop test, then they must have been Dunlop tyres! What I should have said was that I don't know whether it was pre or post the intro of the triangulars.

Welcome Ton, impressive restoration job there. Unfortunately, I can't access your site - something to do with 'firefox'. Anway, I'm working on it.....

Hi Maridadi, Im a bit vague on it myself; I'm not even certain if Dunlop were producing racing rubber simultaneously with Avon, at least in the early sixties? If they were, Avon were far more successful. I think the triangular appeared in '64 soon after Avon stopped making their racing tyres. Someone out there must know this.....who was racing in the early sixties?

Ive been poking around in my junk and have found an Avon ad from '62 which says all of that years world champs were on their rubber. Rasonably safe to assume then that MV used their tyres until they pulled out at the end of '63. I cant help wondering though how a big chunk of motorcyle like the MV reacted in the handling department when shod with those 'pointy' Dunlops?

The Dunlop Triangular (RMT1) tyre was developed by Bob McIntyre at Mallory Park in the close season between 1961 and 1962. For the 1962 TT three riders were given the Triangular's to use - Bob McIntyre, his Joe Potts stablemate Alastair King and Alan Shepherd. Bob Mac said that the Triangular tyres allowed cornering speeds to increase by up to 8.5% over the older tyre design.

Thanks for the info Joe - fascinating stuff. So, was Bob a Dunlop user before the Triangular was developed? I wouldn't for a minute dispute Bob's claim, although I do know that others were less than impressed with them . I think it was Derek Minter who hoarded as much Avon rubber as he could, and I think also is on record as claiming that IOM lap times went down as a result of there being only the triangular available.

ps How did the Beveridge Park event go?

Yes, Bob did use Dunlop's before the Triangular. Bob was an excellent development rider and lots of companies used him to test their products. The Triangular tyre was one of those either you love it or hate it things. Some people swore by them on both Manx's and alike and also on smaller bikes (eg Greeves Silverstone's). Here is a quote from The Motor Cycle from 1962 describiung the first lap of the 1962 250cc TT which mentions the tyre:

“But between Ballacraine and Kirkmichael McIntyre had really buried his chin in the tank top and, in supremely determined style, swept past Hailwood and Phillis (both on Honda fours), and looked as if he would blast Minter (also Honda) clean off the Island before the end of the lap.
Bob must have felt very happy with his new Dunlop “triangular” rear tyre!
At Sulby Bridge, Derek knew he had a tiger on his tail and by Ramsey Mac was through – leader on the road as well as on corrected time. What a fabulous performance – and from a man who has been an established ace for almost 11 years!
By Keppel Gate Bob was well ahead of Derek, almost visibly faster. It seemed possible that he was about to set up a 100 mph lap from a standing start.
Head raised momentairily for a pit signal, Mac screamed along the Glencrutchery Road, followed 14s later by Minter; starting interval was 30s so that Mac was a comfortable 44s up.”



Beveridge was a good crack. Lots of old guys from Beveridge's past turned up and it was good to have a natter with them. It was a good event as many of the people who turned up would not normally come to race meetings. One of the highlights was seeing the KDMC's premier class trophy (used since just after the war), which has a huge amount of history. It was the trophy that would have been given to Jimmy Gutherie for setting the fastest lap in the German GP (which he crashed in and died from his injuries). The trophy ( a huge Bronze Mercury trophy on a marble base with German Nazi detals) was sent to Scotland after Gutherie's death and eventually made its way to the KDMC.

Here are a couple of shots of the Joe Potts stand:

A shot of the JP7 500cc Potts Manx which won at Beveridge Park in 1962 with Bob Mac. In the background is a 250cc Potts Manx and various Potts related engine parts (eg Desmo conversion, special cams, pistons and the development Ducat cams) :


Another shot showing a JP car another earlier 500cc Potts Manx and the Bruce Special (150cc New Imperial based motorcycle) plus Charlie Bruce's DOHC Velocette engine (initially made by Doug Beasley) :

Around '59, breaking for Druids at Brands, I think.

A good shot of Bob and The Mint. The 4ls Gilera brake can be seen on Bob's Potts Manx. It was one of two Bob took to Bellshill from Gilera, along with a couple rear brakes of the wee Gilera twin's. After the Potts team finished the two front brakes were sold to Francis Beart. It is interesting to note that when the Duke Gilera team started up, due to Bob taking the brakes there were no 4ls units for the team. This meant the team had to use the older single sided unit.

Wonderful detailed information Joe, please keep it coming. Had the Oulton Park accident never happened, surely Bob would have been in the frame for a Gilera ride in '63? Didn't Geoff Duke recomened Bob to Gilera in '57, so logically.... McIntyre and Minter on the same bikes would have been something.

I doubt that Bob would have ridden for Gilera in 1963. What many people don't know is that Bob was contracted to Gilera in 1957-1960 inclusive. This is because if they wanted to come back racing, they wanted a top rider availiable. This contract prevented Bob from riding for other Works teams in 1958-1960. After Bob's Gilera contract expired at the end of 1960 he signed for the Bianchi team and a satellite (run by his good friend Reg Armstrong) 250cc Honda. For 1962 Bob was the contracted to be the lead Honda Works rider and was to ride on the 250cc, 285cc and 125cc Honda's. Honda were also already planing on introducing an F1 car and they were lining up Bob to be the driver. In 1962 Bob was starting to consider moving into car racing in approx two years (he believed it would be easier physically). Charlie Graham of Thonrhill was building a Bob a Formula Ford to race in order for him to get some practice. Charlie was a good friend of Joe Potts and had recieved alot of help from Joe Potts and Bob Mac setting up his own 500cc racing cars. Charlie Graham also helped Joe Potts introduce De Dion rear suspension on the later JP cars produced at Bellshill. Anyway when Charlie Graham heard Bob was killed at Oulton in August 62, he immediately went up to his garage and cut the car up that Bob was to drive.

Most interesting Joe, I didn't know about the Gilera contract, nor indeed the car racing stuff. My memory then is paying tricks - did he race in '62 with Honda at all GP until his death?

Yes Russell, Bob Mac did race in 1962 with Honda (motorcycles). As a full Works rider in 1962, Bob got to use the Honda's at domestic National and International meetings, as well as the GP's. Bob even took the Works 285cc Honda to Beveridge Park in May, in order to show the bike to the Scottish fans.

Thanks again Joe - is Beveridge Park still intact? From the various descriptions on here, it sounds like it could have been not unlike the old Crystal Palace circuit? I think Bob made appearances there too?

Some of you may have seen the thread "Another 1960s photo collection" which features photos by Eddie Whitham, who worked for a North West newspaper in the 1960s covering car and bike meetings at Oulton Park. Here is a sample from his motor cycle collection. I'm not well versed in 1960s bike history, but I'm sure some of you will be able to fill in the date, and the full front row of the grid.

Thanks Alan, Mike Hailwood nearest the camera.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Alan Cox
[B]Some of you may have seen the thread "Another 1960s photo collection" which features photos by Eddie Whitham, who worked for a North West newspaper in the 1960s covering car and bike meetings at Oulton Park. Here is a sample from his motor cycle collection. I'm not well versed in 1960s bike history, but I'm sure some of you will be able to fill in the date, and the full front row of the grid.


Cor what a great pic of Mike and crew about '58 /59 i'd say --obviously before my time just

Peel type fairing, flattened, megga, earlier helmet design, makes it, I think, 1960. Dont' know who the others blokes are, although the guy with the white helmet looks kinda familiar. Wonderful shot Alan, can we have some more please ?

yes a really great startline picture. Sitting on Mikes bike is his mechanic Jim I can't remember his surname but his nickname in South Africa was Woody Woodbine I presume because he smoked Woodbines.Jim emigrated to SA in the earlt sixties and worked for my father Doug for a short time.He went off to start a business with Syd Stacey in Pietermaritzburg cicrca 62/63.the last I heard he was in Cape town but that was many years ago now. The rider with the white crash hat is Bob Anderson not sure on the middle rider.
Peter

Beveridge Park is still fully intact - the track is actually in far better condition then when it was raced on. Brveridge Park is a nice Park in Kirkaldy, and the race track consisted of the outer perimeter road. Both motorcycles and cars (went in the opposite direction round) raced there. It is a very pretty place for a track and is also an incredibly hard track with lots of camber changes, down and uphill bends and also having to run in the sheuch (or gutter for the English).
Bob did race at Crystal Palace. In the Oct 1956 meeting Bob Mac won the 250cc, 350cc and the Senior class' on Joe Potts Manxs'.

[/B][/QUOTE]

I've just noticed the battery bellow Jim the Mechanics leg, which I think almost certainly makes it later rather than in the 50's.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by joepotts7
[B]


Bob did race at Crystal Palace. In the Oct 1956 meeting Bob Mac won the 250cc, 350cc and the Senior class' on Joe Potts Manxs'.

I saw my first ever bike race in '56 at the Palace - don't think Bob was there that day though.

Was it Jim Dadley ? And I think Mike Hailwood used that design on his helmet up to 1960, then changed to the gold/red /white pattern.

Mike's mechanic was a Jim Adams ("Mike Hailwood, The Fan's Favourite" by Mick Walker).

He wore his red/white helmet until at least September 1960.

Thanks for all this additional information, chaps. Unfortunately Eddie hasn't retained much in the way of records of the events he covered.

No problem Alan. Stick the pic´s up and the fundies on here will fill us in. There is some real knowledge on here. I´m impressed.

Im sure I should know who this is but, go on, tell me.

Its little Bill Ivy on the 125 factory Yamaha, about '67.

Hi Peter,
Did you witness Hailwood racing in SA during the late fifties? If so, how many mechanics and gofors were with him, and was there, intially at least, the resentment sometimes expressed here, due to him having the best bikes, engine fettlers and an army of mechanics?

Thanks for your rapid response, Russell. I knew that I knew him (from his brief, but impressive Formula 2 career) but I had, for the reason that it was mixed in with slides from the very early '60s, assumed it was earlier than '67.