Thanks for posting it Alan. He was a factory Yamaha rider from 66-68 and rode the Czech Jawas in 69, as well as of course racing cars.
He was a gutsy little bloke who could get the most out of pretty much any sort of racing motorcyle .

nice pic of my hero

Russell i was a bit young to remember clearly who what and how many, I only remember Jim Adams working on the bikes when they were in my father,s worshop. I also know that no one had a bad word to say about Mike or his team all of SA bike racing were very happy to have him come to their shores and race.
The only clear memory I have of Mike is in the 500 race at Hesketh when he was frantically signaling to my Father as he came past the pits that Jack Gray had crashed at the sweep. It became clear once my dad got to the scene that it was bad and unfortunately it ended Jack,s racing carrear, it took many years but Jack did recover.
i have only the highest regard for Mike as a rider and a great man which as I recall this story makes you realise how he cared about others.
it was a great dice while it lasted Jack on a 350 Norton and Mike on a 500, Jack was the local man with his own special way of riding the circuit which allowed him to be ahead of Mike but he overstreched it in the end.

Peter

Yes, I think the calibre of the guy was demonstrated more than once, most obviously in SA during the car GP with the Reagazoni? incident. Here, in the early sixties there was some resentment, which I guess was understandable given the sport was/is? a working class pastime and so many were struggling to stay in the game on a shoestring.

As far as I remember there was a contingent of three comprising Mike, Dave Chadwick and Jim Dadley that went over for the first time in late '57. I don't recall any resentment being expressed at that time.

Anyone know anything about this pic?

I may be wrong but I reckon that No2 is Charlie Sanby. Same helmet design and the Peel 'Mountain Mile' fairing in metallic blue with horizontal flashes.

no 21 looks a bit like martyn ashwood?,may be a bit too early for him tho.
and yup it looks like charlie sanby.

Yes chaps, it is Charlie Sanby - any idea where or when?

Crystal Palace?

Yes the Palace - Anerley Ramp, the wiggly bit before the last corner, South Tower Turn. It's August Bank Holiday Monday 1967. Other than Charlie, haven't got a clue who the others are.....is that against the rules?

The chap talking to Bill Ivy is David Dixon journalist from 'The Motor Cycle'.

Not sure about that, looks more like Norman Dixon from the ACU. Is #15 at The Palace Barry Randle ?

Yeah, David Dixon might be sporting a Bobby Charlton type comb over nowadays, but back then he had a mop of fair hair.

Dunno about Barry Randle GD.....

Whoever it is must have spinach in his teeth, judging from Bill's gaze. Just looks like Barry Randle's habit of having his pudding basin tilted back a touch, Russell. Keep the archival gems coming !

Hi to everyone. I'm new to this forum and wonder if anyone can help clarify when, how and why the full farings, full "bins", full shells or whatever they were called in your part of the world, were banned or faded out.

I'm referring to the full shell that almost fully enclosed the front wheel on road-racers.

I'm from Perth in Western Australia and was born in 55. I have clear memories of seeing some racing in WA when I was very young and the best we can work out is between 57 and 59.

The generally accepted theory here seems to be that they were banned in Europe in about 58 because of instability at higher speeds or accumulation of fumes rather than just drifting out of use.

Much appreciated if anyone can give an authoritative explanation, even including the regulations etc. Of course, Australian and other photos of the era would be most welcome.

Yeah - great Crystal Palace shot . I reckon the last-but-one rider (partly obscured by 15) is Steve Jolly. He was a regular national runner on a G50 before his Bonneville days. The rest (apart from Charlie) are mysteries to me but I'd love to know! More of the same Russell ?

Hi Steve and welcome to the site. You're right, 'dustbin' fairings were banned in Europe, including Britain, after the '57 season; it was argued that when fitted with them some bikes could become unstable at speed. I suppose that's resonable enough, as machinery such as the Guzzi V8 was capable of around 180mph. In Oz though they continued to be used until, I think, the mid sixties. The picture of the great Ron Toombs is from around that period. I'm not sure where is was taken, or if its a G50 or 7R.

Quite a few well known guys here ? ....... Graham won't have a clue!

Neither do I ! Although Graham should get number 19 since he identified it in an earlier post! My guesses (scraping the barrel :\ ) are:-

20 Martyn Ashwood?
11 Lewis Young? (or he maybe number 10?)
16 Frank Perris?
22 Tom Phillips?
25 Joe Dunphy?
7 Steve Ellis?

............I'll get my coat...........!

Nor me Russell
scraping the scrapings
#7 Brian Ball ?
#17 John Hartle ?
#23 Griff Jenkins ?

...........iv'e got mine on and the engine's running

Number 4 - Selwyn?
26 - Ken Hugget or George Buchan?
23 Griff Jenkins looks good to me Phil. Gotta go to work now. Will tune in tomorrow with great interest!

wow! that photo drips nostalgia

Could #10 be Errol Cowan?

Sould I reveal all? Unfortunatley, I've given you a slight bum steer on one of them .

great picture
my guess is
10 Roger Hunter
11 Syd Mizen
19 Peter Preston
23 Griff Jenkins.

what a line up of all sorts
Peter

Come on then tell us!! I cant find me Crystal Palace book! Its a great picture though, way before my time, but you old codgers seem to be going bananas over it so your all much older than me then!!?

Peter Preston thats him, thankyou.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by picblanc
[B]

Come on then tell us!! I cant find me Crystal Palace book! Its a great picture though, way before my time, but you old codgers seem to be going bananas over it so your all much older than me then!!?

Huh , Huh some of us are old others look old mentioning nobody in particular, Fu

OK guys, 16 is Godfrey Nash (third in 500 World Champs- not runner up as I claimed earlier- in 1969), 19 is Peter Preston, Ron Chandler (British 500 champ 1969 ish) is 11, and although I should know number 20, I can't remember! 22 is Cyril Jones (killed at Snetterton in 1972), 23 is Griff Jenkins (Senior MGP winner about a month after this picture taken in September '63), Roger Hunter is 10 (runner up in the Junior Manx of '63), Joe Dunphy is 25 (Senior Manx winner in '62). I've a feeling that 3 is Clive brown, yet another Manx winner ('70 Junior? ) The picture is August Bank Holiday 1963. Peter, I think, identified more than most, so good on him. As can be seen, spectators could get really close to the racing......I loved the 'ol Palace.

Hi Steve,

Russell is, as usual, correct - they were banned in Europe at the end of the 1957 season. The reasons were, in a sense, threefold: There was great concern as to just how fast a bike could go with a dustbin fairing highlighted by the fact that the Guzzi V8 hit something like 185 mph at Spa. Secondly it had come to light over the previous 2 or 3 years that they were very dangerous in cross winds and thirdly although the term downforce was not in common useage in those days it had been noticed that there seemed to be an aerodynamic effect from the fairing which had the effect of "altering the weight distribution" with more bias to the front wheel. This could have a beneficial or a deleterious effect on handling depending upon the static weight distribution.

Maridadi

.....and I love the two Tom Kirby bikes, 11 and 10 :-D

I got it slightly wrong, it was 187 mph at the MIRA test track in France and 178mph at the Belgian GP in 1957. It weighed under 300 lb. Check this out http://www.ozebook.com/mcnews/mgV8/MotoGuzziV8.htm

More sheer conjecture : 17 Billy McCosh, 26 Ken Redfern, 4 Walter Scheimann, 20 Martin Watson ? And Steve, if you're in Perth on November 21 to 23, come and see Australia's finest classic racers and their machines at the Historic Roadrace Nationals at Barbagallo Raceway.

17 not Billy McCosh. Billy never raced at Crystal Palace. I can only remember him doing Cadwell Park and Oulton Park on the mainland

Yeah, I've no recollection of seeing Billy there, but I think he may have raced at Brands - or was that George Purvis ? Anyway, in the sixties at least, meetings at the Palace - and for most of its post war existence there were only ever two per year - clashed with Easter and August Bank Holiday races at Oulton Park, Thruxton and Cadwell Park, as well as lesser meetings. The circuit then tended to attract specialists, so it was not uncommon to see guys that didn't feature elsewhere, in amongst, and sometimes putting it across the more established regulars such as Dunphy, Jenkins and Chandler. Ironically, and for reasons that I now cant fathom, by the late sixties and until the circuit closed in '72, the grids began to look very big -time indeed.

Morning all
No 20 is not Martin Watson as Martin was was riding for my Father Doug in SA in 1963 season.
for some reason he looks familiar but the name remains locked away in the old brian box.
Peter

Hi Peter,

I think its probably a guy called Dave Elvin. It seems the grid positions have be chosen by ballot......

This is not quite true. Dustbin fairings were banned for International races at the end of the 1957 season. In Britain, for National events Dustbin fairings were still allowed in the early part of the 1958 season. For example at the 1958 April Oulton Park meeting, Alistair King won the 350cc and 500cc class' using Joe Potts Manx's fitted with a dustbin fairing.

Thanks for the info Joe. You wouldn't happen to have any period shots of Beveridge Park? ...or any others?

Perhaps I should start a Palace thread ....... Good indicator of the proximity of the houses - the issue which eventually did for the Palace.

In the damp, Ramp Bend, late 60's

Nice one Russell - that sure kept us entertained !

You're right, Joe, I should have said "in grand prix racing".

While on a Crystal Palace and dustbin fairing theme, this is a '57 shot of John Clark on a factory Guzzi. I don't know much about him, nor do I know how many rides he had for Guzzi. I think I'm right in believing that he was killed around 57/8 on the continent after a catastrophic bike failure...con rod breaking, swinging arm collapse, something of that order.

John Clarke was loaned a '56 350 Guzzi single for the '57 British short circuit season as well for use in the TT of that year. He was also given the 3rd works 500 Guzzi for the '57 TT to back up Dickie Dale, who rode the magnificent V8 that year and Keith "Tweety" Campbell who was aboard the other 500 single. He finished 8th in the Junior event but retired from the Senior race.

For some great period paddock shots of Beveridge Park have a look at the following link:
http://jinglyjangly.fotopic.net/c844028.html

Here is a shot of Bob Mac at Beveridge.


Here is a photo from another old Scottish track - Errol:


And a cartoon on the Errol races:


This is a nice period paddock shot from the other side of the Irish sea:

Thanks Russell, lovely photos. My late Dad and I saw Ron Toombs and Bill Horseman on 350 Yamahas(?) at a Round the Houses in Moora WA circa 1970. Dad had a couple of good slides from that day. Really must get them out.

Thanks for the pics Joe - particularly enjoyed the JinglyJangly shots.

Hi Steve, Yeah, be great if you could put them up here.

Any offers ?