No ?..... Brands regulars, pic is '64?

Hi Russ , looks like just you and I .No real idea i'm afraid. 2nd rider looks a bit like Reg Everett apart from that not a clue

Hi Phil, no, not Reg, but I can see what you mean.....


Sorry about your mate Phil.

i'm here as well benn gettin high on thinners making a model tiger tank.first time iv'e made one for over 30 years.should come out something like this i hope.


sorry it's off topic.

I had a bad car accident 30 odd years ago and when I was recovering I made 4 or 5 tank models (Tamiya) very therapeutic it was, funny how the Whermacht (spelling?)(German) tanks were more interesting than the Allied Tanks? :\
Well off topic, but its a bit of a slow night!!.

yup,so did i,mostly tamiya as is the one i'm making now.may do one of the motogp bikes next.

ok,dont know if i have put this one up before,mgp practice in 1975.
me on the yam,but who are the others?
anyone got a programme

As it happens I know the one in the fore ground, its John Williams, yes really!! but not that John G Williams.
Rex someone for the other rider.

Should the picture not be in the other thread though!!

oh yeah must be the thinners,whe heeey

Number 34 is someone called Rex Piles. I still haven't put the programme away after last year's quiz!
Any more photos Dennis?

Rex Piles!!

think youve seen most of them by now.

dont you think it would be better if both these threads were merged?.
opinions please.

hmmm,red wine and thinners.= braim darmage.

Yes two bottles of ESB bitter = Brain darmage!!

Speaking personally, no I dont as the 1949-1969 one is fine and stays near the top of the threads in its own right.
Now I would like to see the years extended on the 1969-1990 thread, maybe merging with the 1990's thread??

i dont realy mind,i was just trying to start an argument
evil little sod i is.

OK Dennis My opinion is '49 --69 change to '45 --'59 then '59--'90
1st choice after WW2 till early stages of Jap invasion '59 --'90 for devolpment of 'bikes + riders after Jap invasion BTW I like your tank !!!

sounds good to me

Yes the present set-up seems to fall at odd years --'69 is a strange cut off point --does'nt seem to make much sense as I said regards rider / machine devolpment hey ho back to the whisky

Such a comfort to know I´m not the only one partaking of a little "snort".

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Russell Burrows
[B]

I'm surprised that these guys were not indentified - South Africans, Errol Cowan and John Smith, both short circuit regulars in the sixties.

Dear me, I didn´t even see the pic Russell, otherwise I would have had a stab at it as I knew both very well. John was a lovely rider to watch and was as fast as hell. Rode for sponsor Doug Aldridge if my memory serves me correctly. He had a son (Murray, I think) who was a very promising young motocrosser, but who, tragically, lost his life in a M/C road accident whilst still very young. I believe Errol is still active in the historic bike racing scene in South Africa. Two really nice guys.

Yes, I can remember John as very fast - often in the first six, particularly at Brands. Did he ever race in Europe or the Island ?

Peter, could you tell us if the bikes were your Dad's ?

Yes it is definately John Smith om Dads Manx could not be sure on Errol though but we now know it is. John rode my dads bike from 62 - 65 in the UK Europe and South Africa. At the same time Matin Watson also rode my Dads bikes but he continud through to the end of 66.
Johns best result in europe was a win at Tubbergan in I think 64 but at you say he was very competitive and quick at most places he rode.
I last saw John in Pietermaritzburg in 2005 and he was very well with his old mate Martin also doing well.As you see they are both from PMB and as is my family it was only natural to help your local talent. I have some great memories of Martin and John and my life was made very entertaining with the things they got up to.
Great days thanks guys.
Peter

I would say it is Jack Ahearn,
a very well respected rider on the continental circus in the 50's and 60's.
I can not recall him racing in the UK except for the TT and Ireland maybe he did?

Peter

Yes, the amazing Jack Ahearn whose career began just after WW2 and continued well into the 1970's. After returning to OZ he ran a bike shop in Sydney but continued to race at Bathurst and the six hour race, before retiring 'up north'.

Hello Peter yes certainly looks like 'Jolly' Jack to me I think you are correct about him racing (or not) in the UK iv'e just looked in a few old progs from '65 on and no mention -not the ones I went to anyway

Here's another one from Gary's collection. It came labelled "Hond works team".

Anyone like to come up with where, who and when?

I´ll have a stab at the where. The police uniforms look very froggy to me, so I´ll say Clermont-Ferrand. Probably around 1963.

What a great pic Germany 1961 SMBH nearest then sunny Jim errrrrrrrrrrr

Spa Francorchamps??

Tom Phillis 3rd left?

Morning all,
Looking at the flag it could be Belgium or Germany I think it is Spa,
i would guess the riders as Hailwood Redman and 3rd from the far side Phillis, the two white helmets are japanese riders the only one missing is the blue helmet rider. i think the year is 1961.

Peter

looking at the picture again, Redman rode with a blue helmet some times I have a picture of him in SA with a blue pudding basin. I think the rider next to Hailwood is Bob Mac.

Peter

Lovely shot. It's the Belguim flag so it must be Spa. I too think McIntyre is next to Hailwood, with Tom Phillis third from the left. I think Takahasi, Tanaguchi and Tanaka were the Japanese guys then in the team, so that could account for the other three, but number 2, despite the helmet, does look more like Redman. It must be 1961 as Phillis was killed in '62 and the Belguim GP was run after the TT . Also, Hailwood was with MV from '62. The bikes do not appear to be earlier models. Wasn't Gary himself on the MV twin in this race?

The more I look at the picture...... John Hartle had some rides for Honda around that time and the guy on Phillis's left looks more than a little bit like him. I'm not certain though if he was ever allowed to race in GP's. Questions of that sort could be the basis for a fascinating discussion......who got the factory rides, who didn't and why ? Cos, clearly it wasn't always determined by ability ?

It's true he wasn't a regular Phil, but he did race here. I've found him in programmes at Oulton Park and Mallory and I'm pretty sure I remember him at Brands with a sharks tooth design on his fairings. I think also that he was among a number of guys who returned from the IOM during pracatice to race at Oulton Park during the postponed TT of 1966. Hope I haven't made that last bit up......?

Only just noticed the starters Belgium flag now (where are my specs? )

Hi Rhodie,

Did you ever receive my response to your e-mail?

How about a photo of Ken Robas?

Maridadi

I think Jim was elected as Team Leader at Honda fairly early on but maybe not by '61, so he had a lot to do with the choice of rider, but you can't really argue with Redman, Phillis or Hailwood. Incidentally they finished the Belgium round in that order with Japanese Honda rider Sadao Shimazaki in 4th, so one of the other riders could well be him.

I did, thank you Maridadi. I will be in touch soon.
Wow, great pic of Ken on what I imagine was his 650 Triumph in about 1956/7. I was still pretty young then, but he remains one of my most vivid boyhood memories. I recall travelling to Coro park with my Dad the first time I saw him, and thinking it was humanly impossible for anyone to ride a motorcycle an quicker than Ken did that day. If I close my eyes I can still smell the Castrol R in the air. Oh, aren´t memories great things.
Great rider on both dirt and tar.

Great picture of Ken Robus it certainly shows how rough and ready the racing was in those days.
I know my dad spoken often about Ken and what a hard tryer he was, he was a breed of racer we will never see again with the likes of Ray Amm, Rudy Alison, Beppe Castellani, Eddie Grant and a whole host of other riders all trying as hard is it no wonder southern africa produced so many world class riders.
I can also recall that wonderfull castrol R smell among the dust and dry grass of a race day in South Africa.

Peter

I am sure i have seen Jack Ahearne's name when my uncle was racing in the late 50 's in the UK but i may have read it in a paper, i was only 7/8 at the time.


Pete

As far as I recall, both Hailwood and McIntyre were supplied bikes through the UK/Irish importers, therefore they were not full blown factory riders. I wonder why? There are surely other examples of good riders being given factory contacts over really exceptional pilots? Yes, I would argue that in the sixties the list was fairly lengthy .... not sure though if our staid forum is ready for such a debate.

[/B][/QUOTE]

In the fifites, Jack Ahearn raced a long stroke Manx similar to this on Australian 'short circuits' - dirt covered ovalish type circuits, more akin to speedway tracks.

As I recall it, Hailwoods main problem with getting a Honda ride early on in his career had more to do with oil company sponsorships. Hartle lost his Honda ride due to his oil company refusing to let him ride a Castrol bike. Honda were contracted to Castrol and Mike was at the time (I think) Shell sponsored. Stan arranged a deal where Honda supplied a bike through the UK agent thus getting around the problem. For the same reason a similar deal was then made for Minter and McIntyre.

Talking of the late, great Ray Amm does anyone know what happened to the Ray Amm Memorial that was on the Umtali Road?

When Ray arrived in Europe he was really impressed with the circuits as they were all tarmaced. His Coro Park style carried over into his road racing and earned some derisive comments from the "pundits" when he put his foot down when cornering in the wet. Much to their chagrine they found out that he was quicker than the opposition who were riding in the classic style.

On the subject of riding on the wet I am always taken with Jim's comments about Gary who was very quick under wet conditions. Someone said that they supposed he must like the wet as he was so quick to which Gary responded that he hated it but couldn't understand why everyone else was so slow!

Maridadi, I recently enquired about Ray´s memorial and was told by a mate of mine that it had been vandalised by the local population. I think the plaque was made from brass and would have ended up being sold for scrap. Nothing is sacred it seems, not even Ray Amm´s memorial, although to be fair, it´s doubtful the thieves would have ever heard of him, and hunger is a strong motivation.
I was informed that a memorial wall is to be built at the Zimbabwe Motor Sports Federation site in Harare, where all Rhodesia´s great motorracing champions from the past will be honoured, including, quite natuarally, Ray.

firstly Hi , first time post on here , what a brilliant site , all these wonderful pictures bring back so many memories

also i came across this :

http://www.motorsportmemorial.org/focus.php?db=ms&n=5967

not sure if it's the same person ??

keith

Hi Keith welcome to you glad you enjoy the piccies hope you also enjoy the ramblings of a few old and in some cases not so old farts --there's no get-out clause ta-ta

thankyou , i'm getting down the old fart route myself i'm afraid , but i still enjoy my bike ( modern i'm afraid) and love all the old pictures
i think as far as i can remember the first bike race i went to was the " hutchinson100 " 1973 or 74 ??
at brands

barry sheene racing against the 2 JP nortons of perter williams and dave crashford , sorry croxford ..lol

i have some pictrues some where of sheene at brands in the early 70's i'll have to ses it i canfind them
i was also lucky enough to meet him when ha opened a double glazing showroom in ashford in kent , a really nice person
he and many others are sadly missed