Hi Barry,
No,Wadder (John Cooper) wasn,t there.Me and Bob were the 2 token english riders.Joey was there.Late arriving (as usual) came driving up the circuit in the Merc van with his leathers already on.No scrutineering.Went straight down to the start with the Downtown Radio sponsored RS500 triple,and promptly slapped in the fastest practice lap of the day.What a lad.Me and Mozz were undergoing a liquid de-brief in the Yacht Bar that night and 'Yer Maun' was standing opposite taking the water.Quiet,unassuming,smashing bloke,much missed.Not afraid to say I cried when I heard what had happened to him.
ATB HW

Wasn't that far ahead, Andy - 6 seconds!

I was 6th & 2nd 350 - you were 7th & 3rd 750.

Always wondered - what was a 572 CCM??

Not quite the right era but only one I have of Sam

Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

One of my customers Dad, took this along with a few others, any ideas? I think it could be Bill Lomas? but its not my era, clues to help if needed, its the TT, as for the year? there are a couple of other pics taken I have seen of a massed start, I know that did not happen very often, not that this rider was in the massed start just might give an idea of the year?

Photo thanks to Julia Cleary.

and this one what is it? I dont know this either.

Photo thanks to Julia Cleary.

Could be an MV as the pusher appears to have that on his overalls?

Sorry HW - wires crossed there! I was referrring to Cooper (I think) being in the '65 UGP that Creith won. Although no MV's were there, I think the majority of the Continental Circus were - so that must have been one hell of a win I reckon!

The gent with the hanky looks like Cecil Sandford, and the MV being wheeled down the Glencrutchery Road is a small single, probably a 125, or maybe one of their quick 203s....

Yes Cecil Sandford I think your right GD

TT site pic of Cecil
https://www.iomtt.com/Photo-Gallery/Gallery...image=6478&ref=

[QUOTE]Originally posted by larryd


[B]Wasn't that far ahead, Andy - 6 seconds!

I was 6th & 2nd 350 - you were 7th & 3rd 750.

Always wondered - what was a 572 CCM?? [/B][/QUOTE

Hi Larry,
I thought you were a bit further up the road than that,should have got my head down a bit more,we could have had a skirmish!Loved the circuit,but a bit scary,particularly heading for that big tree.
The bike was a BSA based scrambler built by Alan Clews of Bolton,3 speed, 2 valver,in a Cheney frame.It handled like a ruptured pig,but the acceleration was interesting!It was my hillclimb bike with a pair of 'ace' bars on it.Would have been better with the 'crosser bars,but the regs wouldn't let me.Glad to hear you are ok.
HW

As to the year, the long front mudguard on the MV would indicate late 50s as well. May as well whack the others up too, Gra.... unfortunately, I'm off to work, but no doubt Russell's about....

Sadly these are the only two I have, they were emailed to me, the originals are very small 3x2 inch at the most, and not really worth putting up, (I dont have them anyway)
Have a good day matey.

Yes,I think its Cecil,always wore a white neckerchief,so its that he's using.Team mate of Bill Lomas at that time I think on the smaller MVs.Champ in 1952? on the the 125 MV. 81 years young a few days ago.
HW

[img][/img]
Just trying to learn how to insert image

Re post 1812 from Russell on 11 Feb Howard German on Frank Sheenes Itom.
It is a Gilera badge on Howards helmet but I can't find any record of a Gilera connection. I know Bill Ivy started on 50cc bikes and then raced a 175cc (later 190) Gilera before going on to much greater things, so maybe Howard did something similar.
If anyone knows the connection it'll stop me pulling out what little hair I've got left.

Talking of Bill Ivy, Mick Walkers next book will be about him.
Paul

still ca'nt get the picture

Arthur are your images on a host site i:e Photobucket or imageshack?

If yes you have to left click on image code then right click on copy, then go to your post and left click it on the page.

If you want a good read on the wee fellow try NO TIME TO LOSE by Alan Peck.New Bill quite well in his early daysof racing when he rode for Geoff Monty

Thanks Arthur, I'll get a copy
Paul

[img][IMG]http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/465/leavingthenookiom.jpg[/img][/IMG]

Question Where is picture taken? What year?

Thanks all who helped this computor novice with picture loading seem to have got there at last
When can I take the orange bib off?

After 6 piccies Arthur
Is the pic coming out of Governers Dip IOM '66ish

Year - Rider- Machine
What was the Prize and Title awaiting this most underated racer.[img][IMG]http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4792/johnkidson133.jpg[/img][/IMG]

Yes quite correct 1966 Lightweight coming out of The Nook,Governers Dip.
Quite a story behind that race I got disqualified.

John Kidson,Formula 3 winner,Gordon Padleys Honda,!977 TT

HW

Arthur,looks like you had some 'excitement' during that race!Which hedgerow did you throw the fairing over?
HW

Hi Arthur glad you have your picture posting sorted,
There is another bike thread called Motorcycle racing 1969-1990 Nostalgia 2 you can post on there also
Here is the link to the last page.
http://forums.autosport.com/showthread.php...583#post3487583

Yes Herr quite correct it is John Kidson 1977 Formula 3 world champion on a private dealer entered Honda.
My opinion was that John was a most underated racer of the 60s and if he had been offered a works Japanese or Italian machine of the 60s era he would have easily delivered the goods.Certainly was a faster rider than several who were on these machines.

You're quite right, Arthur. God knows how quick he would have been with two eyes! Still, he didn't do too bad - not many people have an FIM World Champion certificate framed on their wall like John has.

Is that a TZ700 fairing on the Honda? If so, what a wizard idea, plenty of room to hide bike and rider behind it : nice one !

Hi Arthur, would love to know what happened, as well as seeing any more pics of the Machi and/or the Guzzi.

Hello guys,

after reading the last 20000+ posts in the more modern thread, I would like to address a topic I`m interested in. I´m looking for any info about the Read-Weslake project of 1969. As far as I know, this bike was only tried once in the NW200 practice of this year. Is there anybody around who knows details of this ill-fated project ?

I found http://www.sintich.com/quattrovalvole.htm

but I don´t understand Italian and the computer driven translation is really lousy.

HelloRussell,

A couple of months ago, I saw a pic of you in the other thread standing on the rostrum of the Nazi tribune in Nürnberg.
Well, Nürnberg is my home town...

Motorcycle races were held there from 1947 till 1970 regulary. In the fifties, big shots like Eric Oliver, Cyril Smith, Ray Amm etc. took part. In 1966, there was one I recall quite well with Silvio Grassetti on Bianchi taking the laurels in the 500cc class and Fritz Scheidegger in the sidecar class.

In 1976, there was the big final with Ago, Read, Cecotto, Lansivuori, Hennen, etc etc. (Sorry OT).
If of interest, I could give you more details (PM).

Regards

Hi Rennmax and welcome to the forum , yes I remember all the hype and bull surrounding the bike IIRC it was top heavy and never destined for greatness and was a monumental flop

Yes, hello Rennmax and welcome. If memory serves, the project was based on using two cylinders from a Westlake car racing engine and as I'm sure you know, it was a spectacular failure. I too think the NW 200 was its only outing where oil surging around in the motor caused major problems (that last bit may not be accurate). After looking at your link, I either didn't know or had forgotten that Reads were actually taking orders for the bike....... How dopey was that? Unfortunately, the Westlake was not the only highly emabarrssing British failure around that time. There was a three fifty four concieved, and I think built, in of all places, Hull. It was christened the something or other 'streak' and was supposed to be a serious challenge to MV et al. I can't recall what happened, other than it was a miserable failure. Does anyway out there recall this project?

Ah, Nurnberg....beautiful and fascinating city but an odd choice of location for a racing circuit? But perhaps good for spectators as they could use the huge area surrounding Hitler's rostrum?

tschus.

Hi Russell,
I think you are thinking of the KRM Superstreak.350 3 cylinder,with some input from no less than Jack Williams (Peter's dad).I wrote for some info but got 'zip'.Was reputed to have been bank-rolled by Hallmark Tractors of Ashby de la Zouch IIRC.

HW

Hi Herr, that's the one. Kingston Racing Motorcyles or something like that? I didn't know Jack Williams was involved. Did it ever actually fire up? And why was it a failure I wonder?

Oi whats wrong with Hull!!?

Thanks to fil2.8 and Russell for your welcome and comments.
It might sound a little bit odd to you, but I`m quite interested in this non-worldbeaters like the Cardani (Fontana/Findlay project), Crescent (There were some posts from Yendor on the other thread on this issue) and, some time ago on the "modern" thread about the Linto. The Linto had some success in the hands of Alberto Pagani und Gyula Marsozvsky (runner-up in the WC 69 to Ago), but a complete nightmare for most, especially for Findlay. I think he only finished in one race ( 3rd in Hockenheim 69)
After all, everything is said about the Honda six / Mv 3 / and most of all, the Tzs....
Thats why I like to rummage in these ventures.

Re Norisring track in Nürnberg
Well, this venue was not destroyed in WW2 by air raids (the city was totally smashed), had no purpose any more and, staging races was the first sensible thing that took place there !
There were also some different track layouts tried. The one used nowadays was launched 72 after Pedro Rodriguez fatal accident in a Ferrari 512 M.

In the heydays, crowds were up to 100 000. Ray Amm (in 53 or 54) once stopped during the race at the pits, kissed his wife, started again and won, of course.......
Sorry about the waffle.

Regards

It's the non world-beaters we all enjoy --it's finding out about them thats interesting and remembering them --sort of 'oh yes now we remember '
And please,waffle all you like I have selective reading

What a can of worms this has opened up;
Jacks bike the JADA,was fairly successful in the face of some quite superior bank accounts.
The Linto- If looks could kill.One of my all time favourites.
By the way welcome Rennmax.Great input.Do you recall a German crew with a Linto powered sidecar outfit.The motor has apparently been built into a solo by 'un ami' here in SW France.
The Crescent; brilliant notion but not quite enough under the bonnet.
My most lusted after bike,it just has to be the Konig.Oh so close,but in the face of the advancing Japanese,who knows how long it would have lasted.
I seem to rember 1 example of the KRM being produced,and the name of Hull rider Dick Pipes is niggling at me.
Rennmax,do you recall the Hercules Wankel racers?They too are close to my oily heart.
Fu, as a former resident of Burton on Trent I think I am well qualified to slag off Hull---but I won't.
BTW John Kidson was the only private individual to possess an NSU Rennmax 250 twin (motor) IIRC
Got to go, suffering 'repetive strain injury' in my one good keyboard finger!

HW

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Herr Wankel
The Linto- If looks could kill.One of my all time favourites.
By the way welcome Rennmax.Great input.Do you recall a German crew with a Linto powered sidecar outfit.The motor has apparently been built into a solo by 'un ami' here in SW France.


Good evening !
I am too in love with the Linto !
Could you tell me more about your "ami" and his solo ?
Thanks !

High Herr,

if I remember it correctly, the Cardani

http://images.auctionhelper.com/images/963...es4/cardani.jpg

and the Jada were 2 different projects.

The Cardani assault was in 68 (before Findlay´s adventure with Linto in 69), the JADA was mid-season 70 and 71.
As far as i remember, Findlay switched to a Seeley G50 for the start of the 70 season and "relplaced" the engine by a Suzuki TR500 later on. In the next step, he build together with Fontana the JADA with an McIntyre inspired frame.

Re Linto chair. Hv no idea that one was campaigned in Germany. Wonder about the fragillity of the engine in brute sidecar use....

Re. Hercules Wankel As far as I remember, there were same outings on a private basis with the bike in endurance racing (don´t know the category / class they ran in), but success was not overwhelming.

Re NSU Rennmax. Beautiful bikes / engines which would have been competitive with due development till the arrival of Honda
Constructed after NSU learned their lessons with the disastrous 500 cc in-line four.

Regards

The Cardani was a fourstroke triple, whereas the Jada was a Suzuki twin-powered two stroke with lightness of essence, if I recall it had circlips holding the engine to its' mounts to save the weight of bolts and nuts. The KRM was a four-cylinder, looked great but if it did run, it certainly never raced. Perhaps the last of the much-vaunted "World Beaters" the motorcycle press of the time used to fizz about.

Hi Rennmax,
Yes,of course the 4 banger.On paper should have been the business.But without the big bankroll------?
Reliable 2 Strokes were coming!
The Hercules was raced in endurance,but was made to run in the 750 class.A bit unfair for 300cc,and the basis of an industrial engine.Still its the 'tilting at windmills' that makes this game so interesting.
I agree about the Linto,it was difficult to make it last a race in the hands of a sypathetic rider,but in the hands of 2 lunatics-----.Sorry chairboys but I speak from 1st hand experience!

HW

And of course we can't forget this one.

CP I love your pics, but any chance you can post them a bit smaller, as they dont fit on my pc screen, or is it just me? :\

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Herr Wankel
[B]Hi Rennmax,
Yes,of course the 4 banger.On paper should have been the business.But without the big bankroll------?
Reliable 2 Strokes were coming!
The Hercules was raced in endurance,but was made to run in the 750 class.A bit unfair for 300cc,and the basis of an industrial engine.Still its the 'tilting at windmills' that makes this game so interesting.
I agree about the Linto,it was difficult to make it last a race in the hands of a sypathetic rider,but in the hands of 2 lunatics-----.Sorry chairboys but I speak from 1st hand experience!


About the Linto powered sidecar, I have been told that Georg Auerbacher ordered an engine to Premoli but the only one Linto powered outfit known to have materialised was ridden by the italian Attila Massimo.
Does that help ?

I just right-click 'em in to My Pictures Gra, then they're the right size.... but the BIG pics have such good detail, check out the consternation in the passenger's eyes, whereas Helmut's more concerned with the revs ! BTW there's a sound grab of the URS at vintagebike.co.uk, what a weapon it was !

Yes, I agree. And we shoudn't forget Wolfgang Kalauch either. He was a real nice men. We got acquainted at an Autobahn restaurant when we were both on our way home from the TT in '75. He was on his way back from the IOM on his BMW R75/6 with his daughter as pillion. Wonder how many competitors get to meetings on bikes nowadays.
Sadly, Helmut Fath wanted to sack him as "being to old".Well, he went on a long time after that with Messrs Enders and Schauzu, nearly breaking the ton with Schauzu in the 750cc sidecar TT in '75. (9,6 seconds for the first 100 mph lap with an outfit were missing)
Quite quick for a conventional BMW with 65-70 hp output!

Regards

Hi GD66,
Sorry about the cylinder cock up.
I remember Helmut smoking the back tyre of that one all the way down Mallory back straight.Fantastic sound.

ATB HW