Javascript Disabled Detected

You currently have javascript disabled. Several functions may not work. Please re-enable javascript to access full functionality.

Motorcycle racing: 1949-1968 nostalgia

Started by Bjorn Kjer , Nov 02 2006 09:51

Please log in to reply

9618 replies to this topic

#2051 Rennmax

Member

2,048 posts
Joined: February 09

Posted 04 March 2009 - 08:17

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer
It´s not easy finding something to put up on here that will stump the brains trust, but I have a feeling I´m going to go close with this one.

Any info on that handsome bike?

According to the vintagebike site, Fred Marsh even build a V8 DOHC....

#2052 exclubracer

Member

1,720 posts
Joined: October 07

Posted 04 March 2009 - 09:03

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer
It´s not easy finding something to put up on here that will stump the brains trust, but I have a feeling I´m going to go close with this one.

Blimey, that's a potent looking bit of kit! :up:

Any history on it anyone? Haven't heard of it before so I assume that it was another of those 'British World Beaters' that went nowhere. :rolleyes:

#2053 Russell Burrows

Member

6,529 posts
Joined: December 07

Posted 04 March 2009 - 09:26

Originally posted by Rennmax

Any names ?

Morgen : L to R, Werner Haas; Muller?; Rupert Hollaus; .......?

#2054 Russell Burrows

Member

6,529 posts
Joined: December 07

Posted 04 March 2009 - 09:30

Originally posted by Arthur
Think its true Rod as even though my memory is not so good these days I distinctly remember reading it in the paper. What chances of getting away with that these days?

I'm with you Arthur. If I recall correctly, the cops gave him an escort for part of the way.

#2055 Rennmax

Member

2,048 posts
Joined: February 09

Posted 04 March 2009 - 09:35

Originally posted by Russell Burrows

Morgen : L to R, Werner Haas; Muller?; Rupert Hollaus; .......?

Good morning , Russ

Nearly perfect, the missing one is Hans Baltisberger and the one in the background must be a relative to our Mr Fu :stoned:

#2056 Russell Burrows

Member

6,529 posts
Joined: December 07

Posted 04 March 2009 - 09:41

Originally posted by Rennmax

Any info on that handsome bike?

According to the vintagebike site, Fred Marsh even build a V8 DOHC....

It was built over many years by Fred Marsh, largely it seems in his garden shed. It was never seen as a potential world beater, and Im not sure if it was ever raced. There's some info on it on an auction house website (never learned how to do that link thing).

#2057 Rennmax

Member

2,048 posts
Joined: February 09

Posted 04 March 2009 - 09:59

Originally posted by Russell Burrows

I'm with you Arthur. If I recall correctly, the cops gave him an escort for part of the way.

Yes, he had some kind of devotion....

He once used a more or less street-legal kneeler to get some training for long distance races. He drove from his home to Colin Seeley (1000 km) at one go. There must be a pic of this outfit in one Seeley's books.

I think from the continental boys only Helmut Fath was as mad as he was

#2058 Rennmax

Member

2,048 posts
Joined: February 09

Posted 04 March 2009 - 10:11

Originally posted by Russell Burrows

It was built over many years by Fred Marsh, largely it seems in his garden shed. It was never seen as a potential world beater, and Im not sure if it was ever raced. There's some info on it on an auction house website (never learned how to do that link thing).

Found this not very comprehensive link

http://images.google...p...2DE302&sa=N

Edited by Rennmax, 04 September 2009 - 17:01.

#2059 GD66

Member

2,237 posts
Joined: December 07

Posted 04 March 2009 - 11:05

Originally posted by Russell Burrows

A guy who had a few trips under the bridge in the car...?

No news on this one yet, Russell. Actually, it doesn't look too much like a Dunstall Dommie, without a long, tapered set of pipes aboard, and there wasn't much use of 2-into-1 systems then..is it a banger ? And is it Syd Mizen on board ?

#2060 Russell Burrows

Member

6,529 posts
Joined: December 07

Posted 04 March 2009 - 11:21

Originally posted by Rennmax

Yes, he had some kind of devotion....

He once used a more or less street-legal kneeler to get some training for long distance races. He drove from his home to Colin Seeley (1000 km) at one go. There must be a pic of this outfit in one Seeley's books.

I think from the continental boys only Helmut Fath was as mad as he was

I think there is, I'll try to dig it out. He was certainly a character, as is recounted in Seeley's book. He signed this for me when I was a kid, around 62/3.

#2061 Russell Burrows

Member

6,529 posts
Joined: December 07

Posted 04 March 2009 - 11:37

Originally posted by GD66

No news on this one yet, Russell. Actually, it doesn't look too much like a Dunstall Dommie, without a long, tapered set of pipes aboard, and there wasn't much use of 2-into-1 systems then..is it a banger ? And is it Syd Mizen on board ?

It is Dunstall's Dommie, I think though the 600, perhaps in a Manx rather than lowboy frame. The rider is someome who almost certainly would have gone on to great things, although he achieved a fair bit in his short career. It's Fred Neville, Dunstall's pilot before Dave Downer. Fred was killed in the '61 Junior Manx on Tom Arter's 7R. In the very early sixties he was up there with, and sometimes finished in front of, the likes of Read, Minter and Hailwood. For years after his death he held the Brands short circuit lap record which he achieved riding his 7R. I think it wasn't beaten until the late 60's , possibly by Hailwood on something exotic.

#2062 ex Rhodie racer

Member

3,002 posts
Joined: February 07

Posted 04 March 2009 - 11:45

Originally posted by Russell Burrows

It is Dunstall's Dommie, I think though the 600, perhaps in a Manx rather than lowboy frame. The rider is someome who almost certainly would have gone on to great things, although he achieved a fair bit in his short career. It's Fred Neville, Dunstall's pilot before Dave Downer. Fred was killed in the '61 Junior Manx on Tom Arter's 7R. In the very early sixties he was up there with, and sometimes finished in front of, the likes of Read, Minter and Hailwood. For years after his death he held the Brands short circuit lap record which he achieved riding his 7R. I think it wasn't beaten until the late 60's , possibly by Hailwood on something exotic.

I´m not suprised. Take a look at the fairing and his boot. The whole side is scuffed away. Some serious scratching done there. :eek:

#2063 Russell Burrows

Member

6,529 posts
Joined: December 07

Posted 04 March 2009 - 11:57

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer

I´m not suprised. Take a look at the fairing and his boot. The whole side is scuffed away. Some serious scratching done there.

In only his second year on the Island he had topped the practice times for most of the week and was tipped to win both races. He was leading the Junior by more than two minutes when he crashed at Appeldene on the last lap. The race was run in appallingly wet and windy conditions and an eyewitness said he had corrected an intial slide but was then off line....... Earlier in the year he had led the race and Bob Mac at the NW 200, in I think what was his first time there.

#2064 Rennmax

Member

2,048 posts
Joined: February 09

Posted 04 March 2009 - 12:10

Originally posted by Russell Burrows

I think there is, I'll try to dig it out. He was certainly a character, as is recounted in Seeley's book. He signed this for me when I was a kid, around 62/3.

Lovely shot, Russ
Something that puzzled me although of Florian... he had quite a "consumption" of passengers...

On passengers

IRRC, in one of your post long time ago you mentioned that Mr Hörner (passenger of Deubel) wasn't very approachable... you remember ?

#2065 Russell Burrows

Member

6,529 posts
Joined: December 07

Posted 04 March 2009 - 12:28

Originally posted by Rennmax

Lovely shot, Russ
Something that puzzled me although of Florian... he had quite a "consumption" of passengers...

On passengers

IRRC, in one of your post long time ago you mentioned that Mr Hörner (passenger of Deubel) wasn't very approachable... you remember ?

Some memory there Renn..... Yes, at a time when wandering around the paddock was what you did, on at least one occasion, Horner got a bit fed up with us kids inspecting the Rennsport. As you know, In those days riders tended to very approachable, and I can't recall anyone in the paddock who roped their area off as it were. Anyway, Emile couldnt have been that bad as he also signed the above...might though have been a different occasion.

#2066 Rennmax

Member

2,048 posts
Joined: February 09

Posted 04 March 2009 - 12:52

Photo Copyrighted to Rolf Eggersdorfer
D-08396 Waldenburg

an ex-passenger of Florian and who is the driver ?

#2067 Russell Burrows

Member

6,529 posts
Joined: December 07

Posted 04 March 2009 - 13:03

Hilmar and Edgar?

#2068 Rennmax

Member

2,048 posts
Joined: February 09

Posted 04 March 2009 - 13:11

Originally posted by Russell Burrows
Hilmar and Edgar?

Hilmar

Edgar

(but quite close)

#2069 Russell Burrows

Member

6,529 posts
Joined: December 07

Posted 04 March 2009 - 13:36

Mmmm...not Strub. Herr Mader? Have to confess I had to cheat and do a bit of research and I'm far from sure its him - In fact, I have never heard of him.

#2070 Rennmax

Member

2,048 posts
Joined: February 09

Posted 04 March 2009 - 13:45

Originally posted by Russell Burrows
Mmmm...not Strub. Herr Mader? Have to confess I had to cheat and do a bit of research and I'm far from sure its him - In fact, I have never heard of him.

No, Russ

well, tragedy struck him in the IOM and he carried on nevertheless...

#2071 Russell Burrows

Member

6,529 posts
Joined: December 07

Posted 04 March 2009 - 13:45

I well remember the Citroen station wagon transporter. I think the chair had to come off to be fitted in ?

#2072 fil2.8

Member

19,496 posts
Joined: October 07

Posted 04 March 2009 - 13:48

Originally posted by Russell Burrows
Mmmm...not Strub. Herr Mader? Have to confess I had to cheat and do a bit of research and I'm far from sure its him - In fact, I have never heard of him.

Me neither :rolleyes:

#2073 Russell Burrows

Member

6,529 posts
Joined: December 07

Posted 04 March 2009 - 13:49

Originally posted by Rennmax

No, Russ

well, tragedy struck him in the IOM and he carried on nevertheless...

Ah, Jack Drion ?

#2074 Russell Burrows

Member

6,529 posts
Joined: December 07

Posted 04 March 2009 - 13:54

No, not Jack.... Claude Lambert?

#2075 Rennmax

Member

2,048 posts
Joined: February 09

Posted 04 March 2009 - 14:01

Originally posted by Russell Burrows

Ah, Jack Drion ?

Now I have picked a hard one

, although there is somthing this guy and Drion (killed in Brno in '56 IIRC) have in common

Another hint: Initials are C L (no it's bloody easy :wave:

)

#2076 Rennmax

Member

2,048 posts
Joined: February 09

Posted 04 March 2009 - 14:01

Originally posted by Russell Burrows
No, not Jack.... Claude Lambert?

#2077 Russell Burrows

Member

6,529 posts
Joined: December 07

Posted 04 March 2009 - 14:07

Yeah, both lost their females passengers in racing accidents. In Claude's case his wife.

#2078 Rennmax

Member

2,048 posts
Joined: February 09

Posted 04 March 2009 - 14:12

Originally posted by Russell Burrows

I well remember the Citroen station wagon transporter. I think the chair had to come off to be fitted in ?

Those were the days... when where fully integrated chassis (one frame for the whole thing) invented ?

BTW, if you have the booklet "motorcyle grand prix 1974", have a look at page 327...

These Citroen cars were still around in '73 and you could strap your outfit on the roof of it. Must be Rudi Kurth's Crescent powered thing.
Yendor should know more of this...

#2079 Rennmax

Member

2,048 posts
Joined: February 09

Posted 04 March 2009 - 14:26

Originally posted by Russell Burrows
Yeah, both lost their females passengers in racing accidents. In Claude's case his wife.

Yes, Russ.

Drion's passenger was Inge Stoll-Laforge, the wife of Manfred Grunwald.
This guy was passenger to Fritz Hillebrand (worldchamp in '57).
Inge's fatal crash in Brno was in '58, not '56 as stated before.

Have to make a break ....

#2080 Yendor

Member

519 posts
Joined: December 06

Posted 04 March 2009 - 14:42

Originally posted by Rennmax

Those were the days... when where fully integrated chassis (one frame for the whole thing) invented ?

BTW, if you have the booklet "motorcyle grand prix 1974", have a look at page 327...

These Citroen cars were still around in '73 and you could strap your outfit on the roof of it. Must be Rudi Kurth's Crescent powered thing.
Yendor should know more of this...

Rudi used a DS21 which the outfit sat on the roof. I think it was '75 when he replaced it with the CatVan. Rudi designed and constructed it from another DS21. the bike went in the CatVan which also incorporated a fully fitted kitchen.

Posted Image

#2081 HEMEYLA

Member

586 posts
Joined: March 08

Posted 04 March 2009 - 15:35

Rudi Kurth / Dane Rowe DS21 Cat "transporter".

Posted Image

#2082 HEMEYLA

Member

586 posts
Joined: March 08

Posted 04 March 2009 - 15:49

Originally posted by Rennmax

Photo Copyrighted to Rolf Eggersdorfer
D-08396 Waldenburg

an ex-passenger of Florian ?

Alfred Herzig 1962, in 1963 "smiermaxe" at the side of Florian Camathias.

Claude Lambert / Alfred Herzig IOM TT 1962:

Posted Image

And more, Link

#2083 Rennmax

Member

2,048 posts
Joined: February 09

Posted 04 March 2009 - 16:09

Originally posted by HEMEYLA

Alfred Herzig 1962, in 1963 "smiermaxe" at the side of Florian Camathias.

Hi Hemeyla,

thanks for correction. Alfred Herzig teamed-up with Claude Lambert before he did with Florian, so he is not an "ex" but "pre" :blush:

#2084 TDH

New Member

10 posts
Joined: March 09

Posted 04 March 2009 - 16:11

I'm a newbie here - what a brilliant forum! I spent much of my childhood and adolescence squashed against the fence at Devils' Elbow. I remember Chris Vincent used to keep the chair wheel in the air for so long at the Elbow that it would stop spinning! I noticed his name yesterday as a guest at a local autojumble.

I remember Owen Greenwood being booed after winning at Mallory in the Mini, and I also recall he had a couple of match races against someone at Mallory - was that Vincent? There was also a fantastic picture at the time of the Greenwood Mini flipping - anybody remember that?

#2085 fil2.8

Member

19,496 posts
Joined: October 07

Posted 04 March 2009 - 16:26

Originally posted by TDH
I'm a newbie here - what a brilliant forum! I spent much of my childhood and adolescence squashed against the fence at Devils' Elbow. I remember Chris Vincent used to keep the chair wheel in the air for so long at the Elbow that it would stop spinning! I noticed his name yesterday as a guest at a local autojumble.

I remember Owen Greenwood being booed after winning at Mallory in the Mini, and I also recall he had a couple of match races against someone at Mallory - was that Vincent? There was also a fantastic picture at the time of the Greenwood Mini flipping - anybody remember that?

Hi and a big welcome

:yawn: from all the members --including Mr Fu :love:

and that skallywag Julian :rolleyes:

Yes I remember all as you said and booing public enemy no1 --Owen Greenwood was considered sport
I was at Castle Coombe when he flipped it --and yes a cracking pic
IIRC Chris Vincent had a 3 wheel car under construction at the time
Look forward to your postings and a couple of piccies :eek:

#2086 Rennmax

Member

2,048 posts
Joined: February 09

Posted 04 March 2009 - 16:33

Originally posted by TDH
I'm a newbie here - what a brilliant forum! I spent much of my childhood and adolescence squashed against the fence at Devils' Elbow. I remember Chris Vincent used to keep the chair wheel in the air for so long at the Elbow that it would stop spinning! I noticed his name yesterday as a guest at a local autojumble.

I remember Owen Greenwood being booed after winning at Mallory in the Mini, and I also recall he had a couple of match races against someone at Mallory - was that Vincent? There was also a fantastic picture at the time of the Greenwood Mini flipping - anybody remember that?

welcome TDH :wave:

I'm a novice as well in this honourable TNF club.
Yes, I know this picture, I have a German edited book lying in front of me with particular pic, looking somehow like a piece of ballett.
I'm afraid I can't scan it (didn't need such a device until I joint this forum a couple of days ago) and on the other hand I wouldn't like to run into copyright quarrels.
Anyway, I still don't understand how these vehicles ( Greenwood's Mini, John Worthington Scitsu) were allowed to compete in sidecar classes in the UK scene.
Sorry for my continental approach

#2087 fil2.8

Member

19,496 posts
Joined: October 07

Posted 04 March 2009 - 16:39

Well Renn, like Rolf Biland they did'nt break any rules , both rear wheels were so close together and there were no rules outlawing front wheel drive .
IIRC the only mechanical problems they had was the tappet adjusting nuts kept coming loose

#2088 Rennmax

Member

2,048 posts
Joined: February 09

Posted 04 March 2009 - 16:47

Photo Copyrighted to Rolf Eggersdorfer
D-08396 Waldenburg

Claude Lambert, still going strong :smoking:

#2089 TDH

New Member

10 posts
Joined: March 09

Posted 04 March 2009 - 16:49

There were a few around for many years before the Greenwood. I remember at MMCRC meetings a couple of brothers, I think, maybe Roy something or other ran a Morgan with a Vincent engine (The Mogvin), and there were a few J.A.P. Morgans in club racing.

There was also Jack Levy (?) who built an outfit with a Ford V8 engine of some sort. Both driver and passenger lay more or less flat out if I remember correctly - it never came to much.

I was at Mallory the day that Scheidegger was killed - I remember the hushed silence as the news went round.

And, thinking about other messages on this thread, I was at Oulton when my great hero Bob Machad his accident. The week after, every morning Mom and Dad would tell me the latest from the hospital on his condition. We were on our way to London, down the old A5, and stopped at a transport cafe near Northampton. A driver told my Dad that it had been on the news that Mac had died and I cried for the whole of the rest of the journey (its hard to get a cuddle when you're in a sidecar and your mum's on the pillion of the bike!)

#2090 Rennmax

Member

2,048 posts
Joined: February 09

Posted 04 March 2009 - 17:01

Originally posted by Yendor

Rudi used a DS21 which the outfit sat on the roof. I think it was '75 when he replaced it with the CatVan. Rudi designed and constructed it from another DS21. the bike went in the CatVan which also incorporated a fully fitted kitchen.

Thanks for that. What a splendid engineer Rudi Kurth obviously was (or still is ?)

#2091 HEMEYLA

Member

586 posts
Joined: March 08

Posted 04 March 2009 - 17:10

He sure still is a genius.

The Mini:

Posted Image

#2092 Yendor

Member

519 posts
Joined: December 06

Posted 04 March 2009 - 17:16

Originally posted by Rennmax

Thanks for that. What a splendid engineer Rudi Kurth obviously was (or still is ?)

If you want to see what he and Dane are up to now http://www.catbikes.ch

He is truly an amazing engineer :clap:

#2093 HEMEYLA

Member

586 posts
Joined: March 08

Posted 04 March 2009 - 17:19

Originally posted by Rennmax

Yes, he had some kind of devotion....

He once used a more or less street-legal kneeler to get some training for long distance races. He drove from his home to Colin Seeley (1000 km) at one go. There must be a pic of this outfit in one Seeley's books.

I think from the continental boys only Helmut Fath was as mad as he was

;)

#2094 Russell Burrows

Member

6,529 posts
Joined: December 07

Posted 04 March 2009 - 17:19

Flo's road going outfit. Snap ! Apparently turned up at Seeley's place late one night, having riden it from Switzerland. The idea was to go to he Island and gets some laps in with new passenger, Franz Ducret. Not sure if it happened though.

#2095 PilotesdeLegende

Member

211 posts
Joined: December 07

Posted 04 March 2009 - 17:41

Originally posted by Rennmax

Thanks for that. What a splendid engineer Rudi Kurth obviously was (or still is ?)

As you are talking about Rudy Kurt, I cannot resist to show a pic of "The most beautiful eyes of the paddock"

#2096 Russell Burrows

Member

6,529 posts
Joined: December 07

Posted 04 March 2009 - 17:46

Hi Michel, got anymore of her :rotfl:

#2097 Rennmax

Member

2,048 posts
Joined: February 09

Posted 04 March 2009 - 17:54

Originally posted by TDH
I was at Mallory the day that Scheidegger was killed - I remember the hushed silence as the news went round.

After the news were spread over here on that Easter weekend, Max Deubel called it a day then and there.
IIRC, Fritz Scheideger was developing a 700 cc outfit for the '67 UK events using an engine from the BMW 700 car, which was quite successful in touring car / hill climb events, at least in Germany, Austria and Switzerland.

Can anyone recall or has any details ? (Or is my memory playing tricks...)

#2098 Yendor

Member

519 posts
Joined: December 06

Posted 04 March 2009 - 17:55

More on Rudi Kurth and the amazing range of projects he has been involved with.

http://www.classic-m.../rudi-kurth.htm

#2099 PilotesdeLegende

Member

211 posts
Joined: December 07

Posted 04 March 2009 - 17:56

Originally posted by Russell Burrows
Hi Michel, got anymore of her

Hi Russell,
I knew you would appreciate that pic !
Yes I have got some more and shall post them soon.
On this one, does anyone recognize the young man on the right ?

#2100 Rennmax

Member

2,048 posts
Joined: February 09

Posted 04 March 2009 - 18:11

not bad, either....

Back to Motorcycle Racing Nostalgia

Quick Navigation

Motorcycle racing: 1949-1968 nostalgia

#2051 Rennmax

#2052 exclubracer

#2053 Russell Burrows

#2054 Russell Burrows

#2055 Rennmax

#2056 Russell Burrows

#2057 Rennmax

#2058 Rennmax

#2059 GD66

#2060 Russell Burrows

#2061 Russell Burrows

#2062 ex Rhodie racer

#2063 Russell Burrows

#2064 Rennmax

#2065 Russell Burrows

#2066 Rennmax

#2067 Russell Burrows

#2068 Rennmax

#2069 Russell Burrows

#2070 Rennmax

#2071 Russell Burrows

#2072 fil2.8

#2073 Russell Burrows

#2074 Russell Burrows

#2075 Rennmax

#2076 Rennmax

#2077 Russell Burrows

#2078 Rennmax

#2079 Rennmax

#2080 Yendor

#2081 HEMEYLA

#2082 HEMEYLA

#2083 Rennmax

#2084 TDH

#2085 fil2.8

#2086 Rennmax

#2087 fil2.8

#2088 Rennmax

#2089 TDH

#2090 Rennmax

#2091 HEMEYLA

#2092 Yendor

#2093 HEMEYLA

#2094 Russell Burrows

#2095 PilotesdeLegende

#2096 Russell Burrows

#2097 Rennmax

#2098 Yendor

#2099 PilotesdeLegende

#2100 Rennmax

Sign In