The question for me is, why was he riding them at all ?



That's what John Hartle thinks about, too

Rubber suspension units,trailing links and a bloody great wing nut for operating the damper.....

After bothering to read the article from whence the pics were nicked, it seems he may have been trying show how quick they still were. Apprently the factory were unaware that Minter and Hartle also had a sqiurt on them.

Outwardly, the engine looks modern for '51...reminds me of the ealry Honda fours ? Edit: perhaps not...

I was thinking more of Helmut Fath's URS ,Russ

...and some genes are in there, too I reckon


The problems were high frequency vibes with that engine, but take just one cylinder and you have the basis for a nice 125 motor...that's the way it went

And more....Link

Thanks Ton,

that' s a pic from the only one left I assume and which is now in some sort of restauration. IIRC, the gearbox is missing and even the drawings of it are not available....

100 wooden boxes with raceparts are waiting to be used again ! Link

The picture is taken at the top of Devils Elbow, Mallory Park and without checking my programms I guess around 1965/66.

World Champions between 1961-1964 from Max Deubel and Emil Horner were the last World Champions on a ‘sitter’ machine and the last link to road sidecars.

John

Thanks, John

in '62, Reynolds (Ken Sprayson ?) build a kneeler chassis for him, but he didn' t get along, so he kept the sitter till he retired

Max Deubel & Emil Hörner 1966 ! :


Edit !! Otto Kolle & Heinz Marquardt.

I thought so too, Rennmax, but the Hemeyla pic looks awfully like a kneeler !

Well.... probably the pic is showing Otto Kölle....don't intend to play the smartass card, so stand to be corrected.. can only offer

http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http...sa%3DN%26um%3D1

for any "proof"

Any comments, mates ?

Nicht Max, surely.

Ka-pow ! Nice shot, Rennmax. And surely no offense taken. Good stuff, lads, the pace is on...

Very nice sidecar action pictures from Francois Beau......Link

Thanks, some excellent shots there....change of underwear at race end for Auerbacher's passenger? Do you not think Max is the second outfit in the shot tagged as Duebel?

I also didn´t think it was Duebel Russ. I´ve yet to see a pic of him without his Max and Moritz characters on the fairing.

The sidecar team with nr. 76 in the Francois Beau pictures named Deubel is Otto Kolle & Heinz Marquardt.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TDH
[B]Re: Castle Combe programme:

One of the names I spotted there was Stuart Hughes, who lost his life at Mallory, at The Elbow, and was featured in an article in the (then) new Daily Telegraph magazine. Don't suppose anybody has a copy of that?

Say TDH - I remember that feature in the magazine at the time. It was a few pages and had a colour photo of his Enfied in the paddock if I recall. The magazine is long gone I'm afraid! As a teenager, I remember him at Llandow on a 350 Manx and he stood out then as being one to watch. I followed his progression to Nationals where he was starting to make an impression on the Enfield untill that fateful day at Mallory. (1968 or thereabouts?). He seemed to be destined for big things. R.I.P. Stuart - always remembered!

I'm not sure, they always had the BMW sign on their helmets.


TT Assen 1966, Max Deubel & Emil Hörner on the SITTER sidecar.

Hello Ton,

thanks for enlightment.

There were some crews with nearly identical fairing designs, esp. when you see them in b/w pics.

Wegener could easily be mistaken for Enders, Klenk with Auerbacher etc.

Nice that we cleared it, gents

I can't remember the date - it may have been a bit before that. The accident was right in front of where I was standing and I remember Dad trying to distract me. Mind you, I'd seen enough carnage on the Elbow by that time to last me a lifetime! I remember Alsitair King coming off and lying absolutely out cold with his head and shoulders on that little kerb on the outside and the rest of him on the track with bikes going everywhere to avoid him, and then, I think Roy Mayhew coming off in the next race, trying to stay on his feet and jumping over the barrier. I couldn't understand how, according to MCN the following Wednesday, Kingie had a few bruises while Mayhew had a fractured skull!

Yeah, I know, but it looks really good when enlarged.....

A great photo! Crystal Palace.

Max Deubel, Quarter Bridge, IoM 1965.

Do you think my Mallory pic is NOT max?

Can you see the signature? double click on the image to see it at a smaller size.

Hemeyla

Is that Roland Foll with Camathias in the Francois Beau pics

It was Franz Ducrot
http://www.eggersdorfer.info/camathias/florian_camathias.htm

That's right, Franz Ducret.

Roland Föll passenger from Florian Camathias in 1964, died on 27-06-1964 in hospital aged 28 years, after a crash with his 125cc Honda in practice from the Dutch GP.

Florian Camathias and Alfred Herzig on Gilera at the Dutch TT 1964:

No, no question mark over the pic at the Elbow CP, plus it's clearly a sitter. I love those big postings, you can really get stuck into the facial expressions of the crews. And others have mentioned it, but a huge thanks for sharing your great black and white shots with us : for me, so much more evocative of the drama and starkness of that great era. We are lucky in that, for all the paucity of film coverage of the racing of the sixties, we were well served by a small army of skilful lensmen. Hats off to you and your peers, CP.

I think we' ve sorted it out, mates

John's pic post # 2351 shows Deubel/Hörner, Ton's post # 2384 shows Kölle/Marquardt

quod erat demonstrantum, as the lads from the south used to say....

I wonder why Camathias built his Gilera outfit with a lefthand sidecar. Strange that.

Nice shot, Russ ... would love to hear all these singles spring to life and no smokers around....

Can't identify none of the pilots I have to admit, any hints ?

Hi Paul,

Florian campaigned a lefthand chair during all his career, so there was no point making a change caused by just using a different engine, I suppose
BTW, all Swiss drivers I can recall instantly (Haldemann, Strub, Lambert, Scheidegger....) used left hand outfits. Can't remember a Swiss pilot with a right hand outfit....
Germans who preferred them were Attenberger, Luthringshauser, Linnarz, Butscher, ( he actually changed from a righthand one, even Schauzu in his last season used one with a Yam engine)
Reason, IMHO : Most circuits are run clockwise, so there is a obvious advantage

Re the Crystal Palace pic :pretty sure it's been on before, so I'll pass...but what are those dodgy-looking front tyres ? Are they the much-vaunted Avons ?

Another good reason, esp. with that engine...the Gilera had a right hand side secondary chain drive, so a right hand outfit would hv been awkward for the passenger...

Renn, I think your humble opinion is spot on. The next question might be why do most run that way? And on solos, are left handers only easier if the rider's foot is off the footrest..... ?

It's the Crystal Palace, 1963 Renn (did you ever visit )? I only posted it again as it can now be enlarged further, oh alright and because I really like it. I used to go there lots as a kid........ Several of the guys pictured went on to win Manx GP's, one finished third in the 500 World Champs and another was British Champ.

Yeah, they do look a bit odd, think it's the distortion in the Photo GD. But yeah, '63, so gotta be Avons (mostly)

Hi Russ, hard to answer the "why" question. In fact, as far as I know, only Scarborough is the exception to the rule in your lovely country.
On the continent: pre 66 Hockenheim, Solitude, Montjuich... any offers ?

I prefer right handers, but I can only talk of riding a bike in normal street use...I guess you are pointing to the fact that speedway etc. is running anti-clockwise and the reason for it ?

Remember when the Dunlop KR tyres with their fine engraved profile were replaced by most pilots in the mid-seventies by Michelins S 41 PZ2, quite gross looking profile...

No 11 Kirby bike ? No 19 looks somehow familar, that' all

When Crystal Place was closed ('72) I was a schoolboy, receiving my weekly "motorcycle" mag copy and envious of you UK guys with such an abundance of bike meetings

A story about left / right hand chairs at sidecar outfits from my L.R.T. friend George Knevelman, long time builder / passenger / rider in the Dutch N.M.B. sidecar scene :

In the beginning of sidecar racing the choice of chair-side was mainly based on road use in that particular country, first there were solo frame's with bolt-on sidecars, then came the special build "sitters" which evolved to "kneelers".

The highest possible speed achieved in cornering is "against" the chair, so a left-hand chair in a right-hand corner and v.v.

Further advantage is better / stable braking and more traction when the passengers weight is on the back wheel.

So when taking in account that most circuits are raced clockwise, most sidecar outfits are build with left chairs.

George Knevelman & George Etz, Suzuki 750-3, Maastricht 1976.

Number 19 has been I.D'd on the forum in the past but I'm buggered if I can remember his name! 23 is Griff Jenkins and I'm guessing that Joe Dunphy is number 25? A long-shot, but is that Frank Perris on the Kirby bike (number 10)?

Brilliant little circuit - spectators could get really close to the racing - situated in a South London park. Falling off though was a bit hazardous.......

Yes Barry, 19 is Peter Preston and 10 Roger Hunter, 25 Dunphy, 16 Godfrey Nash, 3 Clive Brown, 11 Ron Chandler, 23 Griff Jenkins, 22 Cyril Jones.

Seem to recall some mystery surrounding the G50 #20.... same again ! And I think last time I tried Billy McCosh for #17 with no result..is it Dennis Ainsworth ?

Fine to see Godfrey Nash's name get mentioned.....which reminds me of course of the Yugoslavian GP of '69 and his remarbable win of the 500 cc class on a Manx. So a story which started in the twenties with the CS1 and continued with the International found a appropriate ending....loved to watch the valve springs at work during warm-up.....