with all due respect.... drilling gusset plates (correct expression ?) of the lovely featherbed frame is not my cup of tea...

who is the young fella in the chair ?

Emile Horner?

Nope, this guy had his successes a decade earlier than Emil and he isn't German.....

Stan Dibden?

Yes, it's Stan Dibben, passenger of Oliver in the worldchampionship winning year of '53 and apparently still going strong... must be in his mid-eighties ?

has anyone read this one ?


http://www.webbikeworld.com/books/hold-on-stan-dibben.htm


BTW, the driver in this shot is Ralph Bonhorst, who was quite successful in the nineties with those 3-wheeled you name it

Morgen, Doubtful if a featherbed was lighter than a 7R frame anyway.......Manx winner, Clive Brown once raed a G50 engine in a Manx Frame, or was it the other way around.... Gusset....think it is.

I'll take no response as a win then ?

Hi Russ, have no doubt that SMBH and the guys on his technical side knew what they were doing....but IMHO the risk is not worth the weight saving... do you know if he actually raced this hybrid ?

Anyway, didn't he persuade the Honda people to squeeze the 500/4 engine in a featherbed frame and give it a try ?
Have some fainted idea that a Manx was purchased from Dearden for that purpose...

Sorry Russell, been refurbing the computer :\
Yes definately Reg , not sure of the other.

Hi Renn, Pretty certain it was raced, perhaps at the time the picture was taken ....I like the body language of the mechanic/ stander by........... I can't honestly recall the Honda in a Manx frame, only the Reynolds and Lyster varieties - sounds more than plausable though.

That's quite alright, only Graham is keeping score.

Good point, Russell. In jumping onto the mikethebike.com website I notice that "For Love Of The Sport" is a trademark of the Estate of Mike Hailwood, so it might be worthwhile for Ronaldo to get in touch to get the okay to go ahead along those lines.....no doubt once it's explained, he'll get all the help he's after...
BTW the lightweight in the Manx frame looks to have 500 number discs on the fairing. And looking at the bystander, one would have to wonder if the effort of hoisting the bike hasn't caused an impromptu romper cough...

I lifted the pic GD from Mick Walker's excellent book 'The AJS 7R' (still available at most good book shops), and the Manx/7R is included in the long list of of Hailwood's bikes around the period.

http://thevintagent.blogspot.com/2008/05/m...-park-1957.html

Hailwood pic with one of the earlier Ecurie Sportive designs.

Did he ride that bike in the '61 Junior TT or was he on a "genuine" 7R one on that occasion ? I reckon the Manx/7R shot is prior to that date.

WWW

Your'e right Renn, defintitely a 7R in the '61 Junior where a broken gudgeon pin put him out when leading. This one in fact...... The 'lightweight' bike is late fifities and I'm not sure if it was used much, if ever, beyond that. Lots of visible mods to the '61 bike though including coil ignition, Oldani, curiously shaped meagaphone and gawd knows what they did internally. Oh, and doubtless a Schaflietner box !

[/B][/QUOTE]

This is a 1960 version.

15 looks like Auerbacher with, perhaps, Pip Harris immeaditely behind him.....ummm 27 looks to be ultra low - not Rudi Kurth is it?
Is it Sachenring, mid to late 60's. 9 looks like Enders' outfit.........not him though?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Russell Burrows
[/QUOTE]

This is a 1960 version. [/B][/QUOTE]

The guy sitting on Mike's bike is the one who is supposed to be Derek Minter in the paddock shot

http://thevintagent.blogspot.com/2008/05/m...-park-1957.html



But that's not the only error in that article (sorry for being pedantic)

On the subject of 7R/G50 engines in Manx frames, Brian Coleshill ran some of these in the mid-sixties with Brian Hunter aboard. Also, I am pretty sure Dave Symmonds tried a 305 (?) Honda in a Manx frame at one time (can anyone recollect this?).

Not bad for a start, Russ... Rudi Kurth is correct , pity not even a tiniest bit of Dane can be seen


Rest ...nope... although I have to admit that some of these crews I can't identify for sure either. That's the curse when you don't put down the figures when you receive the pics, now close to 40 years ago...

Naive question: was the 7R engine superior to the 40M ?

That could well be the first CAT with a sawn off CB450 motor in it
HW

He campaigned a CB 450 motor ? Quite frankly, I don't know... thought he began with a 3 cylinder crescent...Rod, can you enlighten us please ?

Sure can Barry , nice bit of kit to , high level exhausts , beautiful sound , regular top 6 places IIRC , before he got the 338cc Kawasaki rotary twin

Yes Renn , i'm sure that's correct

It was a Black Bomber motor with the gearbox sawn off and the motor layed down.Its a tall engine when its mounted correctly,and that would never do for Rudi.Sure he did the '67 TT with this one.
HW

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rennmax


This is a 1960 version. [/QUOTE]

The guy sitting on Mike's bike is the one who is supposed to be Derek Minter in the paddock shot

http://thevintagent.blogspot.com/2008/05/m...-park-1957.html



But that's not the only error in that article (sorry for being pedantic) [/B][/QUOTE]

Looks more like Ronnie Kray.... I think SA Peter may have ID'd him as one of Hailwood's mechanics who subsequently moved to SA ?

I think the last 7R's poked about about 42 -43 bhp which perhaps was 2% or so more than a Manx? They were lighter engine units than the Norton, being sohc and chain driven. I think the complete 7R was a bit lighter than a Manx also, so they should have been a tad quicker. I suppose this was offset by all those hotshot Manx tuners that were around in the 50's and 60's...squezing every last bit of grunt out of the 'ol Norton.

I'm pretty cetain that he had both the 305 and the 250 in Manx frames Barry. I remember him crashing both at Brands and later overhearing Derek Minter expressing the opinion that Dave should keep to riding little 'uns.

Thanks Russ, amazing that a sohc/ chain driven layout was superior to a dohc/bevel driven....but when I think of GPs in the late '60, there were a lot more 7R/G50 in the top rankings than Manxes...Rob Fitton, Dan Shorey and Godfrey Nash (at least in '69) forming the Norton Phalanx... and the Tickle Manx had no impact at all,IIRC, the smokers were too strong by then...

The 1967 Honda powered CAT, Rudi Kurth raced it with Jean-Claude Gudel in the IOM TT.

Dave Simmonds 305 Honda/Norton. Road this once and must admit I found it a bit of a handful.

Wow ,thanks for that Rod, brings back loads of memories Did you know Dave well? He allways seemed to me , a nice guy

Father, Dave and Mike Simmonds with the Honda :

Again, wow i'm staggered by the response of you all . What a great pic and combined info on the Honda/Norton and one of my favourite jocks of the '60's --early '70's --Dave Simmonds good stuff chaps

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rennmax


This is a 1960 version. [/QUOTE]

The guy sitting on Mike's bike is the one who is supposed to be Derek Minter in the paddock shot



But that's not the only error in that article (sorry for being pedantic) [/B][/QUOTE]

Didn't we identify the mechanic a while ago as Jim Adams ? Or was it Jim Dadley ? And Russell, re your quest to find a pic of John Cooper with a Peel fairing : there's a wee pic of this on the motopaedia.com website, click on "pilots"....

Dave and his brother Mike were amongst the nicest most genuine people I have ever met. I had loads of encouragement and advice from them when I started racing and will never forget their kindness.
I won my first National race riding against Dave in the 125 class at Castle Combe in '65 after a race long dice. On the last lap we must have swopped places at least half a dozen times. Going into the last corner on the last lap I managed to squeeze through on the inside which caused me to run wide coming out onto the grass but I managed somehow to stay on and win. After the race I went to apologise for my somewhat wild tactics but Dave would have none of it and was only full of praise for my ability to get my CR93 in front of his much lighter and nimble Tohatsu. A truly great and humble human being. I was absolutely devastated when he lost his life.
The pic below was taken during that dice at Castle Combe.

Blimey, that big 'ol lump of a motor is set so far back in the frame...... cause of the eccentric handling?

rod,were you one of the first to use the new*dayglo*orange paint? on your bike.
i remember seeing you at brands on it and being very impressed.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by GD66


The guy sitting on Mike's bike is the one who is supposed to be Derek Minter in the paddock shot



But that's not the only error in that article (sorry for being pedantic) [/QUOTE]

Didn't we identify the mechanic a while ago as Jim Adams ? Or was it Jim Dadley ? And Russell, re your quest to find a pic of John Cooper with a Peel fairing : there's a wee pic of this on the motopaedia.com website, click on "pilots".... [/B][/QUOTE]

Thanks GD and an interesting site.

I'm afraid I was . I discovered some in a model shop in Oxford. I think over time I bought most of their stock as it was only available in small cans.

well my lungs may be buggered,but my memory aint bad is it!

So do I Den ,hence the ' Rod the Mod ' moniker

Can I now go with the Nurburgring .......15 Lutheringhauser, 21 Schauzu ? (probably both spelt wrongly)

Hi Russ, it's indeed the Nürburgring Nordschleife, GP Germany '70...the first bike race after the circuit was lined with armco barriers and not sufficient strawbales around.... poor Rob Fitton was a victim of that gross carelessness in practice....the event is also remembered as being run in appalling weather with Ago using a Barbour jacket over his leathers..

The pic shows #9 Wegener/Heinrichs , #15 Klenk/Veil (probably both on ex outfits of Enders resp. Auerbacher), partly hidden are Wakefield/Flaxman, can't recall #14, #4 obviously Swiss (Castella brothers ?), #21 Schauzu/Schneider, #11 unknown and Rudi Kurth of course

BTW, referring to your first post, sidecar races were never included in the east German GP...they wouldn't probably take the risk to play the west German national anthem...the organisers had to do it in '72 after Dieter Braun won the 250 cc class and it caused quite a stir when spectators began to sing along..

it was in '71, sorry