Motorcycle racing: 1949-1968 nostalgia

31 looks like alan barnet.

Originally posted by renzo
31 looks like alan barnet.

No I don't think so Dennis. I see what you mean from the helmet but the bike is a Manx judging by the front brake scoops and I don't think he ever rode one. I could be wrong though (often am)

Originally posted by bigrog


Obviously John Cooper and I think the guy in the white helmet is Ian Burne. I'm having difficulty with Number 31 but I do know it. Year is 64 or 65. I'll come back with more

I agree in that I also thought 28 was Ian Burne. I have no idea of who 31 is or where the pic was taken. My guess is IOM. but it could also have been the Ulster GP. What makes you think 64 or 65? Any clues on the bikes, or just a guesstimate?

Are there any Forum Members out there that were at the 1957 TT ?

The reason I ask is that our Club will be "celebrating" the 50th anniversary of the first 100 mph lap of the TT Circuit by the late Bob McIntyre and it would be great if someone could give us their first hand observations of the 500cc race. Any pictures would also be most welcome and would appear in our monthly colour newsletter (with due mention of the copyright holder).
gilera@igottagilera.co.uk if anyone can help.
Thanks
Paul

Stolen from an old Motor Cyclist Illustrated. Who when where?

john cooper,peter williams,dave croxford,dave degens,rex butcher,yellow helmet err joe dunphy?

Renso you are a star. Well done. I don´t suppose you know the last guy in the pic, Well, you can hardly see him, so I will help with a clue. He was related to everyones hero, Barry sheene.

paul smart?

Paul Smart it is. It was from the season opener in 1967. Doesn´t say where though. Maybe you know.

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer
Paul Smart it is. It was from the season opener in 1967. Doesn´t say where though. Maybe you know.

That's Gerrards at Mallory.

Originally posted by bigrog


That's Gerrards at Mallory.

No wonder JC is leading
Thanks Bigrog.

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer
My question is..... Also, how many newcomers won at their first attempt while the races still had world championship status? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

I came across this post while reading through previous pages and don’t think anyone has attempted to answer this question before. However, my apologies if I have missed any previous answer.
Three attempts at doing this are surely worth noting.
In 1954, Rupert Hallaus won the 125cc TT on his first trip to the Isle of Man. He had however competed in the earlier 250cc race and finished 2nd behind NSU team mate Werner Haas.
In 1961, Phil Read won the 350cc TT on a Norton at his first attempt. Although this was his first TT, he was already a Manx GP winner.
The final one that I am aware of is also possibly the best effort. It was from the lanky 6ft4in German, Dieter Braun. His one and only appearance on the Island was in the 1970 races. He won the 125cc event on the little ex works Suzuki twin. He had also competed in the 250 and 350 events that year but failed to finish in these two classes.

Originally posted by Senor

The final one that I am aware of is also possibly the best effort. It was from the lanky 6ft4in German, Dieter Braun. His one and only appearance on the Island was in the 1970 races. He won the 125cc event on the little ex works Suzuki twin. He had also competed in the 250 and 350 events that year but failed to finish in these two classes.

Dieter Braun must go down in history as the biggest 125 World Champion ever. Anybody think of another 6 foot plus small bike rider?

Stuart Graham was quite long - well over six foot I believe, but like a whippet !

Originally posted by knickerbrook
Stuart Graham was quite long - well over six foot I believe, but like a whippet !

The whippet I believe?

Picture copyright Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

Originally posted by Senor

I came across this post while reading through previous pages and don’t think anyone has attempted to answer this question before. However, my apologies if I have missed any previous answer.
Three attempts at doing this are surely worth noting.
In 1954, Rupert Hallaus won the 125cc TT on his first trip to the Isle of Man. He had however competed in the earlier 250cc race and finished 2nd behind NSU team mate Werner Haas.
In 1961, Phil Read won the 350cc TT on a Norton at his first attempt. Although this was his first TT, he was already a Manx GP winner.
The final one that I am aware of is also possibly the best effort. It was from the lanky 6ft4in German, Dieter Braun. His one and only appearance on the Island was in the 1970 races. He won the 125cc event on the little ex works Suzuki twin. He had also competed in the 250 and 350 events that year but failed to finish in these two classes.

Thanks for that Senor. I would say then that both Hallaus and Braun could be classified as first timers, but definitely not Read.

I recently acquired the negative of this image (and its copyright ;) ), which is a fairly poignant portrait...



The NSU factory riders (left-to-right Hermann-Paul Müller, Rupert Hollaus, Werner Haas and Hans Baltisberger) are depicted paying their respects at the Jimmy Guthrie monument during the 1954 IoM TT.

This was during June 1954; Hollaus died as the newly-crowned 125cc World Champion during practice for the final round, Baltisberger was killed in Brno during August 1956 and Haas - who'd retired at the end of the 1954 season - died in a plane he was piloting about two months after Baltisberger. Müller was the only member of the quartet to reach an appreciable age, dying in 1975 at the age of 66.

It’s certainly an evocative portrayal, Stuart. I wonder why they are dressed in their leathers though. The Guthrie memorial is someway from the start and is actually closer to Ramsay, so did they ride there? Do you have any more pics from this period.

Hello , I still have many pics to show (from mags) period 61-65 , but need one to post them !

Anyone ?

For no other reason than I wanted to see them there and bring this thread to the fore again, I post these pics of the "Ecurie Umgungunhlovu" racing team's trip to Cape Town races in the early 60's and various other pics. Lovely to see the old Avon tyres. Anybody be able to tell me anything about the bikes that are not Manxes pictured here (numbers 50 and 52)? Also nice to see the team was so liberally lubricated by Lion Lager!!

Fantastic old pics Roger!!,
This bike was at Brands on Sat/Sun last and is a genuine 1956 machine (well probably some of it!! )
the owner Roger Ashby said it was originaly in Rhodesia! (Zimbabwe to us young 'uns')
Its called "Old oiley' for obvious reasons!! and up to the last three years raced regularly ar the Manx TT.

Picture copyright Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

Originally posted by picblanc
Fantastic old pics Roger!!,
This bike was at Brands on Sat/Sun last and is a genuine 1956 machine (well probably some of it!! )
the owner Roger Ashby said it was originaly in Rhodesia! (Zimbabwe to us young 'uns')
Its called "Old oiley' for obvious reasons!! and up to the last three years raced regularly ar the Manx TT.

Picture copyright Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

Beautiful, beautiful picture Graham of a lovely example of a G45 but as you say I don't know how genuine it is. Still who cares, it looks fabulous. Peter (pmbboy) is currently building a Norton Domiracer which we hope to wobble round with next year if I can get my weight down to extremely fat from my current obese!!

Originally posted by bigrog


Beautiful, beautiful picture Graham of a lovely example of a G45 but as you say I don't know how genuine it is. Still who cares, it looks fabulous. Peter (pmbboy) is currently building a Norton Domiracer which we hope to wobble round with next year if I can get my weight down to extremely fat from my current obese!!

Now that I have got to see!!!
This one is a genuine 1956 machine owned by the same chap, both the Matchbox and the AJS were very "well used" not like the Walmsley bikes! Although they are well used they are also brand new!!

Picture copyright Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

16 - BSA twin
50 - Norton 'Roadholder' forks so I think it's probably a Triton
52 - Honda CB72 250cc (obviously much modified)

Don't those excellent picture just show the contrast in the standards of preparation of bikes in those days?

I know some of you guys dont like the modern versions of the "old" bikes, but they sure are "pretty", Fred Waslmsley's Matchbox, Fred hiding behind it.

Picture copyright Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

My uncle used to race solos in the early 60's His name was John Sweet, not sucessfull but from this era.

He had an 350 AJS & a 500 Manx Norton in the loft above Grandads garage, he raced at the TT races, and later used a BSA sidecar unit in the 65/66 era.

Does anyone remember in the mid 60's a world championship race at the Nurburgring where the weather turned very nasty with rain and sleet . A lot of the top riders of the day like Max Duebel, Fritz Schiedegger? spelling pulled, up as they thought it too dangerous to continue while my uncle carried on to a top finish.

Brave is not the word Nurby is at best hairy but in a blizzard on a chair unti it must have been very difficult.

Pete

Originally posted by picblanc
I know some of you guys dont like the modern versions of the "old" bikes, but they sure are "pretty", Fred Waslmsley's Matchbox, Fred hiding behind it.

Picture copyright Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

Very, very pretty. I assume he's hiding behind it because he's embarrassed that it's got so much modern technology that it produces about 20 bhp more than a good G50 or Manx did in the sixties. It is pretty and I even enjoy the races but I'm still not convinced about modern classic racing. The true development of a G50 or Manx is called a MotoGP bike.

petestenning : That was 1965 where J.Sweet finished 7th , at the IoM he was 25th. Thats all I have!

PS I am still looking for transport or paddock pics from these and older days !

Hi again , if no pics then info would do to help getting a picture from the era ! Like J.Sweet , what did he use ?
bigrog : fine pics in b/w you showed ! (also the modern/oldies in colour)

Originally posted by bigrog


Beautiful, beautiful picture Graham of a lovely example of a G45 but as you say I don't know how genuine it is. Still who cares, it looks fabulous. Peter (pmbboy) is currently building a Norton Domiracer which we hope to wobble round with next year if I can get my weight down to extremely fat from my current obese!!

A quick question for someone on here who knows/had the G45 Matchbox. While I once rode a G50, I never had anything to do with the G45. The twin (the G45 was a twin if I remember right) was obviously not as successful as the single cylinder, but why was that? Having 2 pots, i would have imagined it would have had more potential. Can anyone explain?

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer


A quick question for someone on here who knows/had the G45 Matchbox. While I once rode a G50, I never had anything to do with the G45. The twin (the G45 was a twin if I remember right) was obviously not as successful as the single cylinder, but why was that? Having 2 pots, i would have imagined it would have had more potential. Can anyone explain?

A very different animal to the G50 as the G45 was not a purpose built racing engine. Rather it was a racing version of the G9 road bike. The G9 motor was a typical British pushrod twin road engine designed to be quite slow revving. When pushed to higher rev ranges and power outputs, the engine developed heating problems, bent pushrods and all manner of frustrations. Additionally, it was not given the investment it needed and the project foundered.

Originally posted by bigrog


A very different animal to the G50 as the G45 was not a purpose built racing engine. Rather it was a racing version of the G9 road bike. The G9 motor was a typical British pushrod twin road engine designed to be quite slow revving. When pushed to higher rev ranges and power outputs, the engine developed heating problems, bent pushrods and all manner of frustrations. Additionally, it was not given the investment it needed and the project foundered.

Thanks for that bigrog

Originally posted by Paul Rochdale
16 - BSA twin
50 - Norton 'Roadholder' forks so I think it's probably a Triton
52 - Honda CB72 250cc (obviously much modified)

Don't those excellent picture just show the contrast in the standards of preparation of bikes in those days?

Paul, thanks for having a go at the pics and you're pretty much right. The Manx Nortons were all part of my father's stable as is the Honda CB72. It was actually far better than it looks in the picture and very, very quick. The engine was modified with most of the parts made in my father's engineering company. The template for the cam profile was kept for years and I probably think one of my brothers still has it.



It brings back lots of memories for me and was developed by my father and the man pictured here, one Syd Stacey, very underrated as both a rider and engineer.


The bike was then part of a clandestine swap when a deal was done with a chap in Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) who agreed a swap on, incredibly, a factory 250 Ducati twin. My father took the Honda across the South Africa/Rhodesia at Beit Bridge and brought the Ducati back with the engine number and frame number of the Honda stamped on the Ducati and a Honda 'Flying Wing' stuck on the Ducati's tank. The customs people never noticed (obviously not bikers) and the rare Ducati was successfully imported into South Africa. We believe this bike was the ex- Francesco Villa factory Ducati twin and was the most troublesome bike ever made. What happened to it, my brothers and I can't remember but we are convinced it's the same one tested by Alan Cathcart in Classic Racer a few years ago. Who knows but I'd like to own it now. Mind you that goes for the 27 Manxes that my father had, including the one I started racing on which had an ex-Hailwood twin plug head. Oh dear, what fools we were to let them all go!

Back to the pics I posted a few days ago, this was a very well known bike in 250 racing in the late 50's and early 60's. The bike was called in all the years I saw it as a "BOKSNOT" in South Africa. (Maybe you have to be a South African to find that amusing). It was an amazing piece of home brewed South African engineering as was the way in Motor and Motorcycle racing in South Africa in those days. Designed, built and ridden by Jannie Stander, it started out , incredibly, as an MOV Velocette. It was then highly modified with a self made DOHC cylinder head and purpose built frame amongst many other things. Jannie was extremely quick on this bike and I think he actually won the 250 South African championship with it but I can't confirm it. He certainly rode it in the TT in 1960 when it was entered as a Velocette. I would love to know where it is today. Anybody in SA have any info or remember it?

Anyone familiar with a racer from the 60's called John? Poyzer, from Glossop or Manchester way, rode in UK and Europe, in fact he was very seriously injured in an accident racing at or near Gronningen? Holland in 1969, he was paralyzed and sadly died 4 years later, anyone know of him and or got pictures etc?

Ah, yes, Boksnot. Jannie got that thing to go so fast the Velo factory offered to buy it off him just to see what he had done to it. In fact, Jim Redman, always one to spot a good thing, bought Jannie´s Manx off him when he first came to Europe, and many said it was thanks to the speed of the machine that Jim was able to establish himself. Stander was an amazing tuner as well as a great rider. You are quite right bigrog, he did win the SA 250 championship in, I think, 1965.
While we are on the subject of SA racing, I would like to recall the 250 event at Roy Hesketh, easter 1967 (i think). Tommy Johns (2 x SA 250 champ) was leading the race on his Yam ( the first of the twin 2 strokes, TD1A ? ), and right behind him was the former SA 350 champ, Guiness Smiler Smythe on his 196 Bultaco. Smiler, unbeknown to most, had a wooden leg, and as he followed Tommy up Beacon hill, he lost the plot, resulting in an almighty prang. His petrol tank burst into flames, and as he cartwheeled down the road the straps of his leg broke and his artificial leg flew off. I swear, their were people sceaming and woman feinting. Quite an extraordinary scene.

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer
Ah, yes, Boksnot. Jannie got that thing to go so fast the Velo factory offered to buy it off him just to see what he had done to it. In fact, Jim Redman, always one to spot a good thing, bought Jannie´s Manx off him when he first came to Europe, and many said it was thanks to the speed of the machine that Jim was able to establish himself. Stander was an amazing tuner as well as a great rider. You are quite right bigrog, he did win the SA 250 championship in, I think, 1965.
While we are on the subject of SA racing, I would like to recall the 250 event at Roy Hesketh, easter 1967 (i think). Tommy Johns (2 x SA 250 champ) was leading the race on his Yam ( the first of the twin 2 strokes, TD1A ? ), and right behind him was the former SA 350 champ, Guiness Smiler Smythe on his 196 Bultaco. Smiler, unbeknown to most, had a wooden leg, and as he followed Tommy up Beacon hill, he lost the plot, resulting in an almighty prang. His petrol tank burst into flames, and as he cartwheeled down the road the straps of his leg broke and his artificial leg flew off. I swear, their were people sceaming and woman feinting. Quite an extraordinary scene.

great tale Rhodie!!

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer
Ah, yes, Boksnot. Jannie got that thing to go so fast the Velo factory offered to buy it off him just to see what he had done to it. In fact, Jim Redman, always one to spot a good thing, bought Jannie´s Manx off him when he first came to Europe, and many said it was thanks to the speed of the machine that Jim was able to establish himself. Stander was an amazing tuner as well as a great rider. You are quite right bigrog, he did win the SA 250 championship in, I think, 1965.
While we are on the subject of SA racing, I would like to recall the 250 event at Roy Hesketh, easter 1967 (i think). Tommy Johns (2 x SA 250 champ) was leading the race on his Yam ( the first of the twin 2 strokes, TD1A ? ), and right behind him was the former SA 350 champ, Guiness Smiler Smythe on his 196 Bultaco. Smiler, unbeknown to most, had a wooden leg, and as he followed Tommy up Beacon hill, he lost the plot, resulting in an almighty prang. His petrol tank burst into flames, and as he cartwheeled down the road the straps of his leg broke and his artificial leg flew off. I swear, their were people sceaming and woman feinting. Quite an extraordinary scene.

Just to add a bit more to the Smiler Smythe story, Bigrog and Myself were watching at Beacon Hill when he parted company with the Bultaco wether it was same meeting I am not sure because we were already living in GB in 67 i seem to recall this event in 65 when the bike burst into flames and Smiler went cartwheeling down the road and he did lose his leg but so us it no surprise as we knew it was wooden. I seem to recall he also raced a 7R and both his bikes had the brake and gearlever on the same side, I would assume he did not use the back brake much when braking and changing down for a corner.I remember my father saying that when Smiler came to race in Europe he was not allowed a pusher as he had been in SA and so had to push start himself and it certainly did not hinder his starts. it certainly shows what determination the man had to overcome his disability. Just to add I can still see him now using a rasp on his wooden leg to smooth it down after grounding it on the track. what memories.
cheers
Peter

Originally posted by pmbboy

Just to add a bit more to the Smiler Smythe story, Bigrog and Myself were watching at Beacon Hill when he parted company with the Bultaco wether it was same meeting I am not sure because we were already living in GB in 67 i seem to recall this event in 65 when the bike burst into flames and Smiler went cartwheeling down the road and he did lose his leg but so us it no surprise as we knew it was wooden. I seem to recall he also raced a 7R and both his bikes had the brake and gearlever on the same side, I would assume he did not use the back brake much when braking and changing down for a corner.I remember my father saying that when Smiler came to race in Europe he was not allowed a pusher as he had been in SA and so had to push start himself and it certainly did not hinder his starts. it certainly shows what determination the man had to overcome his disability. Just to add I can still see him now using a rasp on his wooden leg to smooth it down after grounding it on the track. what memories.
cheers
Peter

Yes, great stories, Rhodie and Pete. I remember it as well (even though I'm a lot younger than you )

What great times they were, partly I think, because as racing in SA were always mixed car and bike meetings, we grew up with an appreciation of everything.

Rhodie, do you realise that pmbboy and I were probably standing a few feet away from you all those years ago.

Without meaning to put down anybody in GB, I do think that Aussies, Kiwis and South Africans have always been more enterprising from an engineering perspective in Motor Sport. If they needed to get more speed out of the machine, they just made the bits themselves.

I don't quite indulge in the death and gory bits that some do but, as we were so young at the time, these accidents made huge impressions on us. Two car accidents I still remember vividly were, firstly, a Kyalami incident when, literally as we arrived, there were some shouts and screams and I look towards Crowthorne to see Ernest Pieterse cartwheeling his brand new Lotus 25 as a result of running wide. A terrible accident which I still picture in my mind. A similar one was an incident in a Sports Car race at Roy Hesketh when an Afrikaans chap whose name I can't remember somehow ran off the circuit on the inside of Henry's Knee (I think he must have touched somebody else) and his car then cartwheeled throwing him out. Car was either a Lotus 11 or Lola Mark 1 (that sort of shape).

As a kid I was always fascinated with Guinness Smythe and his rapid 196 Bultaco. It may be my memory but I am sure that pmbboy actually told me some bullsh*t story at the time that it was all down to his light wooden leg . Just think about the range of bikes that would have been lining up for a 250 race in the early 60's. There would have been Guinness' Bulto, Jannie's Boksnot, Syd Stacey on the converted Honda or ex-works Ducati, Johnnie Gwillam on the MV and even possibly Frank Cope on a genuine 250 Manx Norton.

Great days alright.

Talking of Velo's a very original one owned and ridden by Peter Crewe, I presume the same person as the guess who rider on the Harley a few weeks a go, on 1969-1990 forum.



Photos copyright Graham Etheridge,racebikepics.

ex Sidecarracer , and quite succesfull too german rider, George Auerbacher died recently !

just to back about the sounds, do you remember these two differents bikes

Originally posted by antony duprat
just to back about the sounds, do you remember these two differents bikes

I don't remember the first one which I think is a 125 Rumi. However, a two stroke with a megaphone exhaust must make a hell of a noise.

The second one is an H-D XR750 and that made a fantastic noise. I still remember the 1972 Transatlantic Match Race series when Cal Rayborn brought an old iron barrelled XR750 to Britain and beat all the regular Brits on their own soil. Great rider and the bike made a great noise.

Originally posted by picblanc
Talking of Velo's a very original one owned and ridden by Peter Crewe, I presume the same person as the guess who rider on the Harley a few weeks a go, on 1969-1990 forum.

Photos copyright Graham Etheridge,racebikepics.

Beautiful pictures of a beautifully restore KTT Velo. I thought I'd balance the modern restoration with another period pic of one of my father's KTT's ridden by former South African champion Jackie Gray.

It is indeed a 1953-54 125cc Rumi "Junior", this one equipped for a Milano to Tarente race from the size of its tank. The Italians had not met Walter Kaaden of MZ and had not figured out expansion chambers yet.
And yes, they WERE noisy (the Rumis, not the Italians. Or both!)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bigrog
[B]

I don't remember the first one which I think is a 125 Rumi. However, a two stroke with a megaphone exhaust must make a hell of a noise.



It was a twin with a incredible sound , so hard that the DKW

Originally posted by bigrog


Beautiful pictures of a beautifully restore KTT Velo. I thought I'd balance the modern restoration with another period pic of one of my father's KTT's ridden by former South African champion Jackie Gray.

Awesome bigrog. What a great pic. Jack was a wonderful racer. He would be in his early 80´s now I would imagine. While I never saw him in action, I was always told tales of his exploits every time I came to the great city of PMB. He was a bit of a legend in his home town.

I would like to add some back ground info to the wonderfull picture of Jack Gray on the the KTT. The bike was owned by my father Doug Aldridge who was one of the founding fathers of the Roy Hesketh circuit in PMB. I believe the KTT is a MK8 but I am sure velo experts will tell me if it is not. When my father purchased the bike the story goes that the engine was actually running a water pump on a farm, maybe that was an old yarn but it makes a good story. The bike was then rebuilt into its own frame and was raced very successfully by Jack for a number of years until a 350 Manx was puchased in 1956. The KTT was put aside for a number of years and at some time was fitted into a manx frame and was then used for grass track and scramble races by Martin Watson. It was eventually sold in about 1961 or 62 to a guy from Cape Town still in the manx frame, he raced it a few times, but then dissapeared from the scene.That was the last I knew about the old KTT I am not sure what happenned to the frame but I can still recall that wonderfull polished black tank. To me this was the first real racing bike I was able to get close to and I am sure started me off on my love of motorcyle racing and the bikes involved in racing.
I hope this has not been to much of a ramble but it certainly took me down memory lane.
cheers
peter

I am still looking foir COMPLETE WC results , not only points ot top ten!

Any hints ???

I have been browsing through my father's old slides and I thought this might be of interest, as it depicts the TT in the 60's This is a shot of Paddy Driver and Uncle Tom Kirby at the 1963 TT. My father always planned his business trips to the UK from South Africa to coincide with the TT and maybe a GP if possible.
Peter