... and to the Macchi ?

SMBH was supposed to ride in both classes for MV in that event and eventually back down in both IIRC, but did he have a ride with the 350 Benelli ?

Believe it or not, at one stage someone fitted a 350 three cylinder Kawasaki motor into it. The 'Macchi' was a Harley CRTT, it had a magneto and Harley rather than Ceriani forks. As far as I know, in a other respects it was identical to European Macchis. I don't think there was another one in Austraila at the time. In fact, there were very few Aermacchis over there at all. I have an inkling that it was put back into its rightful condition, and may even have found its way over here.

Sorry, was away for few days!

Yes, that is same museum.
I think they still have a replica of that Auto Union there.Maybe they traded it for money+replica?



My own opinion about starting to build those Serpuhov racers is this.
In Soviet Union from start of year 1948 was forbidden to race other motorcycles, than Soviet made.
So most of the racing was done on bikes with engines based on roadbike engines.All Soviet motorcycle factories did also made a small series production racers, but engines on those had also lot of common with ordinary streetbikes.Most Soviet roadbikes were based on pre war German designs(DKW 125 and 350 2-stroke singles and BMW boxers), so by middele of 50´s they started to be pretty outdated by western standards.There was no motorcycle export allowed to Soviet Union(until the end of 50´s Jawas and Pannonias from East Europe but never from West).
But in the middle of 50´s after Stalin´s death borders opened bit.So there was few international races organized in the other half of 50´s.Most foreigner(most from Bulgaria, Hungary, Poland, Czechoslovakia, East Germany and Finland)had British or Italian racebikes that were much faster than Soviet ones then.So Soviets needed to make their own racebikes that could compete with those(remember Soviet rule- no Western capitalist(not even Eastern block ones until the beginning of 60´s)bikes for Soviet motorsport!).

By the way, in 1965 after some nice rides in GP´s Endel Kiisa was offered a factory ride in Honda team in Grand Prix.Kiisa asked from Moscow officials(all things were thru Moscow then)can he go, but affcourse Moscow people said that no cityzen of Soviet Union can work for capitalist company like Honda! It seems that he was even forbidden to ride in GP´s for a while in fear that he may try to escape to West(remember Degner?).

There seems to be some politics involved in ending the production of Serpuhov bikes too.
Sevostjanov was allways Moscow´s "golden boy".And Serpuhov factory was near Moscow too.
When Kiisa beat Sevostjanov on 250 cc twin, factory ended the production of them.
Same goes for 350´s.
Sevostjanov bikes were allways bit "special", he had Amal carbs on his bike and western sparkplugs, but Kiisa had Soviet made items.When Kiisa got to ride Sevostjanovs bike, he sayd it was much faster than his.But Kiisa and Sevostjanov got along very well, no matter factory politics.
Last nail to Soviet GP effort with Serpuhov bikes seemed to be 1968 Brno race, when Sevostjanovs bike "exploded" in front of tribune with Czech and Soviet sports and communist party officials, while leading the race.Czechs went mental with joy(it was 1968 after anti Soviet riots in Prague) and one Soviet official sayd "That´s it, no more racing with Serpuhov bikes in GP´s".
Kiisa sayd they were almost beaten up when riding away from Brno and their car was poured over with black paint.

Kiisa tried to get MZ to ride in GP´s, but unfortunately there was one Soviet official in group with him in visit to MZ factory, who organized DKW factorys machinery confiscation and transport to Soviet Union after war as war reparation.
MZ people(seems there was still quite a lot former people from DKW time working there, who recognized that guy)sayd "very nice of you to visit us and goodbye..."
Old Serpuhov made bikes were raced in Soviet Union till early 70´s.
But Serpuhov made engines were seen later in GP´s too.
In 50cc class in 70´s, but not with that good results(8-th position best).

Talking about huge front brakes.
500 cc Vostok four that N.Sevostjanov raced had pretty big one too.He liked his front brakes huge.Kiisa and Randla rode his bike later and found it almost impossible to ride on corners.
Randla on ex Sevostjanov 500 four-

Great , Tony , thanks for that , fasinating

Hi Tony, enjoy your diligent post indeed especially the antics of my fellow countrymen at MZ ...

Hi Renn, sorry to be obscure, my reference to CMA/Dresda was regarding the manufacturer of the magnificent brake : although often referred to as Dresda, they were manufactured by CMA, and often appeared on Dgens' bikes. Further to the question of Monza '68, Mick Woollett's book indicates that Hailwood had been approached to race in both classes, and practiced on three-cylinder machines for both classes. Count Agusta requested he finish behind Ago, which Hailwood was happy(ish) to do in the 350, but not the 500, hence his departure. I am certain the 350 six had not been built in 1968. Also, remember in '68 he'd been racing the Reynolds-framed Honda in non-title events, as well as a 500 Seeley, and it remains unclear whether he'd received clearance from Honda to turn out on an MV at the Monza GP.

Thanks for clarification regarding the brake, CMA is or was a new brand for me...
Monza 68: Christian Spahn's book is quite profound IMO but the passage where he claims that SMBH clinched pole postion on a 350/6 might be something of a fairy tale, I agree. But he practiced/raced on non-Honda bikes, so he must have received clearance from them in one way or another.

Hi Tony

Thanks for the insightful response...excellent. During the post war period, were regular, or iregular, national races held ? And who was it who raced bikes in the old Soviet Union - presumably out of the financial reach of most people ? (As was the case in large parts of the West)

Also, do you happen to recall either one or more British road racers coming to the Soviet Union sometime around the early to mid sixties? Unless I'm dreaming this, one of the blokes concerned wrote about his experiences in the press here. Perhaps someone else recalls this ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK41nY-277c...feature=related

The claim is made here that the six reved to 15 grand.....

This one being the 500 of '58.

Moto MV Agusta, by Roberto Patrignani and Mario Colombo, is pretty in-depth, with a full analysis of all MV's delectable machinery, and this claims figures for the six-cylinder 350 of 72hp at 16,000 revs , a dry weight of 125 kg, and a max speed of 250 km/h.....but it also points out that it was built in 1969, so 'unlikely' to have been at Monza '68. As I mentioned, Hailwood practiced on three-cylinder machines in both classes.

The same book gives figures for the 500 six of 75 hp @ 15,000 revs, a dry weight of 145 kg and a top speed of 240 km/h, a bore and stroke of 48 x 46 mm and a comp ratio of 10.8 to 1. They claim the withdrawal of Guzzi, Gilera, and Mondial rendered further development of the bike superfluous, and it was abandoned before it had the chance to demonstrate its' full potential. But it is a runner, and Romano Colombo demonstrated it, with a dustbin fairing, at Pukekohe only a few years back in the Year of the Streamliners, accompanied by Umberto Masetti on a Gilera, and Todero the younger on a Guzzi V8 replica.

I copied this ages ago and now can't recall who this DKW pilot it is, nor do I know about the little'un on the right ?

I think it's August Hobl and the bike on the right side might be a DKW 125 which was derived from the 3 cylinder 350, more or less the flat middle cylinder of the big one

The gent on the right side celebrates his 75th birthday today, hopefully in good health !

I can ID only Redman

Or is that who you mean ?

Thanks Renn, thought that was one for you.

Hey Russ, there is a perfect hint on the number plate of the G50

Oh, of course Paddy Driver...blimey

Yeah, noticed only today that he was also a competent car racer, he took part in the F1 GP of RSA in '74 in a Lotus 72... but for me he is more connected to his time in the Kirby team of course

I have to say I didnt recognise him.

That is not surprising!! What a great photo Russ!!

Lovely shot !

Well, we all change as time goes by, don't we ?.......and Tony Godfrey celebrates his 78th birthday today, I would like to add

BTW the guy in the blue leathers next to Paddy is Alan North

Hold up!! so Paddy is on the far right? & Alan 2nd right in Yamaha leathers? Oh my gawd!! I thought Paddy was the one in the blue leathers!

"I don't believe it" (said in a Victor Meldrew voice! British comedy TV character for you Continental chaps) here is Alan in 1977!! have we all changed so much!!?

Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

a bit easier, but I probably would'nt ID the chap on the left at first glance ?

Its Pat Hennen, I had the privledge of playing a small part in his induction to the AMA hall of fame a couple of years a go, really nice guy, in my opinion would of been 1978 World 500cc Champ.

Looks like where that pic is taken from according to his sweat shirt logo!?

He wont thank me! but here he is in 1977

Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

Sorry it appears we have highjacked the thread!!

I'm quite aware it's not the appropriate thread gents, but nevertheless...he had gained more championship points than BS in that season until that fateful race IIRC, pls tell us something more about that AMA appreciation, Graham

Edit: Any idea how to move my post(s) to the other thread ??

Happy birthday Paddy. Looking great for your 75 years mate.
BTW, that´s definitely not Alan North in the blue leathers. Not even remotely like him. He has grey hair today, but it´s still all there.
I have a feeling the gent in the blue leathers is Alan "squack" Harris, an old ex Rhodie mate of mine.

Ooops. , sorry for any confusion, I took this link too literally ??

http://www.motoring.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=4239799

or are there a Allan ana a Alan

Hi All,
I was going to say the last time I saw Alan he had all his hair but it was grey. I sort of recognise Squack Harris and he does work for the Yamaha importers maybe thats why the Yamaha on his leathers.
Has any one seen the book about Paddy Driver ' Paddy Who' a very good read in my view but then I am bias.

Peter

The person who compiled the caption simply got it wrong, Renn. I see Alan Harris was in attendance, so I´m more than sure it is him.
As an aside, I last saw Alan North in 2005, and he´s not changed at all, except, as I´ve already said, for his grey hair.
He still remains a gent of note.

Thanks for putting things right Rhodie and sorry for any bewilderment

Hi Russel, Rennmax and fil,

No problem, seems I like to blab about old racing anyway .

First real postwar (roadracingish) racing event (300 km roadrace) that I have heard took place in Moscow, September of 1945.
There were riders all over Soviet Union there(and my countrymans sweeped most of hi placings in various roadrace classes ).Same event was held there in 1946 too.
There was also a first Baltic(Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia) roadrace held in Latvian Riga Mezapark circuit in 1946.

First official Soviet Union championship(it consisted only one race) in roadracing took place in Estonia, on Pirita-Kloostrimetsa circuit in Tallinn. 14-th of September in 1947 was the date.
There was 10 different classes contested- 125 cc, 250 cc, 350 cc, 500 cc, 750 cc, sidecars up to 600 cc and sidecars up to 750 cc. And womens 125 cc, 250 cc and 350 cc classes.Mens race distance was 200 km and womens 100 km.
There was 188 racers registered in all classes together and about 80 000 spectators.

No Soviet Union championship was riden in 1948.

From 1949 to 1957 Soviet Union championship consisted of only one race, held allways on same Pirita-Kloostrimetsa track in Tallinn.From 1957 there were two races held in that championship, one in Tallinn and one in another place(Leningrad, Riga, Kaunas etc).

There were also seperate Soviet states championships in roadracing held from 1948.

Who raced in Soviet Union?

Well, allmost anybody could race here to say truth .
There were no private or factory racers here.All you needed to go racing, was that you joined motosport club.
After you made your motorcycle driving licence thru that club, you could practice and learn more under hand of experienced (usually top level active roadracer) clubs official coach and after that you could make racing driver licence.
If you were any good, lucky and showed true interest for motorsport you were given a modified roadbike for racing by club.
Clubs were state sport organization or some big state owned factory supported.
There were mechanics in clubs, who helped(again, if you showed true interest and enthusiasm) to make a proper racer out of that club given motorcycle.
From year 1946 soviet factories started to make roadbikes and production racers, that motorsport clubs could get.No production racers were never sold to ordinary people in shops, just for motorsport clubs.
After the first championship race in Tallinn, more than 500 boys and girls joined the motosport clubs in here Estonia alone, so bikes were in high demand in clubs.Not everybody could get one right away.Younger member usually got somebodys old 125 cc bike and rebuilded it for racing.Economics weren´t that good here after war for quite long periodvtoo.
Some used their own bikes for racing too, but were also club members and got some help from there.
One example of IZ-350 roadbike modified for roadracing from early 50´s-

Rider and builder local guy Ants Promet.He was good engine tuner and skilled racer too.Later raced a 350 cc Serpuhov twin and 500 cc boxer too.



There were international races held in here Estonia from 1958 and from 1959 under name of "Kalevi Big Race"(that´s "Kalevi suursõit" in Estonian language).Motoclub "Kalev" organized those.They were again held in that Pirita-Kloostrimetsa circuit.Riders like F.Stasny, W.Musiol, E.Degner, F.Helikar to name few raced here in late 50´s and early 60´s.Lot´s of Finns, Swedes and a Frenchmen too(on 175 cc class if I remember right).
And yes Russel, one British racer at least raced here too in 1962 I think.I can´t find his name right now and his name is not mentioned in any period book or magazine here too.All my friend, who was young lad then, remembers that he wasn´t fast here and had yellow scarf around his neck and face when racing here .If somebody can find his name and writing, it would be interesting to me too.

Hi all.
Any idea on this WWW


Peter

I think the one on the left is Roger? (BigRog) don't know the others.?

Left side is Peter´s Dad, Doug, I think. Peter eating the ice cream, with Martin Watson looking back at the camera. John Smith on the right? Am I close?
Oh I almost forgot. Killarney, Cape Town, around ´66, I would hazard a guess.

Yes Renn, found the pic in Vic Willoughby's The Racing Motor Cycle, and it's as you said. The pic accompanies Willoughby's in-depth exposure about the development of the DKW three by Helmut Gorg (sorry, I have no umlauts), and is accompanied by a riding impression from galloping Cecil Sandford's three across the Mountain after the TT in 1956. Lucky swine !

I am really quite relived!!

Hi,
Well done on guessing on my WWW almost all the correct answers.
Starting on the left is my Dad Doug, facing the camera is Andreas Georgeiadis (george the greek) John smith to the side and with his back to the camera Martin Watson, it is Killarney and I am not 100% sure on the date but i think 1963 but not 66.
great guessing
cheers
Peter

Wow Tony !!! I , for one never realized the ammount of motor sport in your part of the world at that time Very interesting to see that there was also seperate races for women !!! How foreward thinking was that !!
We look foreward to more information from you , thanks

Yes Tony, another fascinating post. Seems to be a brilliant system - if you want to race, you can because we'll give you a bike ! I too wish I could recall the British guy who was racing in the USSR ; my memory is that he was sending his copy back when there and it appeard in one of the weekly papers. As you have said, he wasn't a quick rider or well known but i'ts interesting that he is remembered in your country. Look foward to your posts, Tony.

Hi Tony, many thanks for unveiling a part of (racing) history most of us had no idea of ...never thought that road racing was so popular in your region, thanks again

[/quote]


Courtesy of Peter: nice shot of Paddy on the Island.

Hi Russ, pic with a lot of atmosphere.... a Czecho rider in the background (Stastny or Havel), #24 Billy McCosh ? and "uncle" Tom , is the rider on the right side of the MV showing the back Hocking ?

That's a tricky one. Paddy Driver rode Nortons till 1963, and the great Gary Hocking's last TT was in 1962....

Hi Renn, its about '65 so Gary was gone. It's Haillwood's MV (looks like his hemet on the tank) but I'm not sure who the rider ogling the bike is - probably saying 'gis a ride' to the mechanic..... I have an inkling this was the year Paddy chucked it away going into Parliament Square.

of course, the lid makes it evident ....

The picture is 1963 TT Practise assembly.
Number 62 is Jim Simpson 22 Paddy Driver 24 billy McCosh 5 Mike Hailwood rider with back to could be Alan Sheperd as he was on the 2nd Privat MV 40 A Carlsson Ajs