Don't think that the flat twin concept is a disadvantage in terms of power output, it might even have some advantages as cooling compared to a twin or V... but from a rider's point of view, the transverse momemtum of a flat twin is quite awkward IMHO. Geoff Duke never got accustomed to it, didn't even John Surtees give it a try ??
Anyway, the blown BMW was reported to deliver 55-60 hp in the pre era and something between 80 to 90 hp post war when competing in national races in Germany




Schorsch Meier 50 years after his Senior TT win ( and Ivan Rhodes on the Velo Roarer behind ?)

[quote name='Russell Burrows' date='Jul 31 2009, 18:21' post='3778515']
I did have a little nap today as it happens.....

Good lunch was it ???

I actually had the very great pleasure of sharing a brew with Georg Meier, or Schorsch as he was better known as in Germany, when he visited a meeting we were at in Germany. It could have been the last German GP at the Nurburgring if I remember correctly.
I recall he was a proper gent, and very modest about his TT victory when pressed on the subject. I actually asked him about the gyro effect, and he said that while it had been noticable when he first rode the bike, he wasn´t aware of it once he got used to it.

Very nice thank you, Phil......strange dream later though

The unblown bike had more grunt, Renn? Mein Gott...

No Russ, certainly not, the blown bikes were allowed in Germany a couple of years after the war (till 51) , the period where Germany was banned by the FIM...

Well, there where riders like Schorsch Meier, Walter Zeller or Helmut Dähne in later years who could cope with it, other riders like Geoff Duke or Dickie Dale didn't. Those who were successful never rode anything else than a BMW before....

Edit: Remember him doing quick laps at the Austrian GP at the Salzburgring in '74, Ivan Rhodes on a Velo KTT wasn't slow either

Did Duke and Zeller ride them together...if so who was quicker?

http://www.motopaedia.com/Bikes/bmw_500_rennsport.htm

Answered my own question

Zeller retired at the end of the '57 season and Duke raced a BMW occassionally in '58, so they never competed on equal machinery...

OK, an easy one. Really only wanted to share this great pic.

Ralph Bryans, Honda 6 Clermont Ferrand '67, pic shot by Wolfgang Gruber (or Volker Rauch ? )

Franta Stasny and Eric Hinton ?

What a brilliant action shot Rhodie!! Well tucked in and under the screen, classic!!

Well, there where riders like Schorsch Meier, Walter Zeller or Helmut Dähne in later years who could cope with it, other riders like Geoff Duke or Dickie Dale didn't. Those who were successful never rode anything else than a BMW before....


You missed one, Rennmax - my very good, and sadly much-lamented, late friend Hans-Otto Butenuth.

He rode just about everything in his long career, and in his time had three different 500 Rennsports.

The first one he got, in 1961 or 62, was an ex-Ernst Hiller bike - by 1971 he was on his third and on it he won the German 500cc Road Race Championship, on a bike that was at least 15 years old.

And who was Championship runner-up?

Ernst Hiller on a 500 3-cylinder Kawasaki!

I have Hans's 500 Boxer, with a factory short-stroke pushrod special engine. With its lightweight crank and small flywheel, I find no reaction at all when power-on to power-off in corners.

I race it perhaps 3 or 4 times a year, always in the Southern 100 Pre-TT Classic in the Isle of Man, and it is fit for a G50 G50 (as opposed to a modern Walmsley "G50") in a straight line - unfortunately, I cannot ride it round corners in the way that Hans did!

Incidentally, Geoff Duke just couldn't ride the Boxer. Dickie Dale, on the other hand, was bloody good on his - and what about John Surtees who had one outing on the factory bike at the Nurburgring in,
I think, 1955?

Hi Larry, great that Hans-Otto is so well remembered in the UK Yes, he was one of the few who mastered the flat twin as he got along with anything on two wheels including 4 cylinder Yamahas at the TT ...would you be so kind to show us a pic of your bike ?
Another one I forgot is Jock West who had remarkable success without being a BMW rider "by nature", winning the UGP '37 and '38 and finishing second to Schorsch Meier in the Senior '39. Wonder how it was accepted that he rode a German bike in these politically tense days...kind of treason ?
Anyway, the figures of the power output of the post war blown BMW were a bit too optimistic in my earlier post, 75 hp is closer to the truth. NSU, the direct competitor in these immediate post war days, were reported to clinch 90 hp with their 500 cc bike, but it was awful heavy, approximately 220 kgs...wonder how they got along with the contemporary tyres ?
Yes, I faintly remember that John Surtees rode a BMW Rennsport at least once, but there must be a reason that he didn't stay ?

Hi,
Dickie Dale did quite well on the BMW in 1959 with two fourth places in the grand prix,s at the French and Dutch so I think he had a fair mastering of the Bike.
There is a great recording of Dickie on the BMW at the TT in 59 done by SS recordings they make a great sound wether in a solo or side car.

cheers
Peter

Dickie Dale's GP score on a Rennsport in '58 was even more impressive, but nevertheless he turned to a pair of Nortons for '60...BTW, I wonder how many secondary drive ratios were available ? How much work was/ is involved in doing a change ? Larry, would you be so kind to throw some light on it ? Thanks a lot !

Thanks Larry,
I was going to give you a bit longer before I jumped in with your ex Hans Beemer.Do you think it it compares favourably with a Rennsport in terms of go?I guess it must be close if it will hold a real G50.The 'thing' (BSA) that I rode at Killalane would peg a G50 initialy but ran out urge at the top.Measured against Nelson Hughes' Seeley.
ATB HW

How did they go about changes in gearing on the Beemers for different circuits, far more work than a couple of sprocket changes I assume?

Could be rather confusing, unless you know of course.

Looks like Keth Campbell, 350 Manx, about to crank it into the Gooseneck, '58?

Not Keith Campbell, although the rest could well be right. You have to admit the numbers are a bit confussing though.

Practice...is that the only confusing bit ? Doesn't seem to have a reverse cone megga, so perhaps not a 350.....

No, there is another confusing bit in that he was associated with another make of machine. In fact this is the first time I´ve ever seen a pic of him on anything other than a ..........?

Sorry Russ. You were spot on. I blame the confusion on the books layout and a bit too much whiskey. Keith Campbell it is. Sorry.
Actually, it has a page on Keith, and the next page is on Werner Haas, but the pic I put up was on the Haas page, so naturally, in my rather confused state I thought........... well you know the rest. My bad.

WWW one of my all time favourites

Dave Simmonds on a CR 72 ? Mallory hairpin ?

Ahhhhhhhhhh Renn me old chum , I see you have corrected your error Yes Dave 1965 , Mallory , Honda 250 , same spec. as Bruce Beale IIRC

That's alright Rhodie, I'm still looking for that John Cooper photograph.....

Right chappies , have a go at this ?? WWW

Walter Schieman, Jack Ahearn, Jack Findlay. Nurburgring, '64.

Yeah, fingers work faster than my brain Remember though that a couple of months ago there was a pic showing him aboard a featherbed framed bike with CR 72 engine. Did he eventually take the motor from the bike in this shot ?

Smart arse thats spot on Russ --------------but where and when ???

Nürburgring Südschleife in '65 ?

Nurburgring, '64.

No , it was the 305 in that frame Renn , with high level pipes and sounded grrrrrrrrrreat ( for a 4 - smoke )

Got any difficult ones....?

Is the right answer

And it's the naughty chair for you

Try this then , not a racer , but a well known biker Oh err , thats come out a bit BIG

Doug Hele ??

Sorry Renn , but no , not his cousin ' down-at hele ' either

Gis a clue then for the bloke on the Beezer. Are we talking US actor?

Cheyenne Bodie

That's what I was gonna say....other wise known as Clint Walker.

Wow Mick , well done thats great , ---------- it's Clint Walker , later probably ' Skint ' Walker

Even though I was only a mere slip of a lad when he was on the telly Phil, that hairstyle is unmistakeable!!