' cause you were Mick

What, I was on the telly in the '50s? Don't remember that

No , a slip of a lad.......................................

WWW



health and safety in motorsport

I didn't know that the they produced a frame with and without downtubes, at least for the 305. Presumably, Dave's was without- hence the Manx frame, in which the engine sat about a yard away from the front downtubes

http://www.vf750fd.com/Joep_Kortekaas/1962.html#CR72

Looks a bit Hondaish....CB 250, perhaps ? No idea of the rider or where....Spain, Italy. In other words, haven't got a clue ....

I promise you I haven't done any research but looking at it - the name Steve Ellis popped into my head ? Or maybe Steve Murray, Bill Smith's opo... But if an endurance race where are the lights...mmmmm

Yeah, Steve Ellis is correct
And the bike is a bog-standard 350 Bridgestone, just without lamps etc. and a fairing of course. It must have had something of 40 hp, so it was competitive in these days....pic is from a race in Slovenia in '68

But the "safety" standards ...

[quote name='Rennmax' date='Aug 2 2009, 09:42' post='3780650']
Yeah, Steve Ellis is correct

Morning men wow Russ , i'm impressed well done indeed !!!!!

Disc Valve, 37 bhp, but only 95 mph, at least untweaked..... Be fascinating to know the story behind this move...he's now in Thialand Apparently.

www.motorcycleclassics.com/motorcycle-reviews/2007-03-01/bridgestone-350-gtr-two-stroke-streaker.aspx

http://www.motorcycleclassics.com/motorcyc...e-streaker.aspx

Didn't Bridgestone quit the bike market after some "indication" from the big four that they better do if they want to sell tyres to them in the future ??
And there was a official GP team with 2 fancy names racing 50 cc bikes ...

quote
Around the middle of 1968 Ray Breingan, a Kiwi and fellow competitor, showed me an advertisement for this motorcycle that seemed too good to be true -- a Bridgestone 350 GTR. We were off to Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia to take part in some races there so on the way we stopped in Surrey to buy a Bridgestone 350 GTR. I think it cost about 350 pounds. Although we were not riding at the Czech Grand Prix we went there to modify the Bridgestone into some form of race bike. I remember executives and directors of the Jawa company appraising the Bridgestone and they expressed their amazement that anyone could produce such a motorcycle and sell it for so little. The week following the the Grand Prix we were contracted to ride in an International race in Piestany near Bratislava. I would ride the Bridgestone in the 350cc class and also my Matchless G50 in the 500cc class. Ray was riding his Yamaha in the 250cc class. There was a strong field of riders, many coming from the G.P. held the week before. Many fellow riders laughed when they saw me with this unheard of road bike complete with standard silencers about to take on some of the finest production racers and factory teams. The day of the race brought rain. At the start of the 350cc race the Bridgestone made a great start (still using the standard gearbox). I remember passing many Manx Nortons and Aermacchis to finished 5th or 6th. No one could believe it -- neither could I in fact. It had fired me up and I took the Matchless on to get a 2nd in the 500 race. -- Steve Ellis
unquote

[quote name='Russell Burrows' date='Aug 2 2009, 09:59' post='3780667']
Disc Valve, 37 bhp, but only 95 mph, at least untweaked.....

Which is precisely why I bought / still have a Kawasaki A7 Avenger with at least 43 bhp --- at the back wheel and 110 mph !!!! . The downside being the 15/18 mpg when ridden hard

My brother rode on too, remember the bike a bit piston consuming

I'll try again
Here you go

It ( Image Shack ) won't let me re-size ---Sorry guys

Oi, no advertising...... Are these disc valve too ? Phil, my computer wont let me respond to your posts with your quote intact as it where.... only your posts though Morning

Whooops they're not....Or....Where's the bleedin carbs.?

Yes, their bikes were high spec... So ? Renn, were does the Steve Ellis quote come from please.

Yep , 338cc and disc valve , only 5 speed --- the Bridgestone was 6 speed , but a lot lighter than the Bridgestone IIRC

http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http...sa%3DN%26um%3D1

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_206TETOgLd0/SjC5...cuit,+1953..jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_206TETOgLd0/SjC5...cuit,+1953..jpg
In the race that followed, Ray Amm split the Works Gileras of Milani and Armstrong, with the first three crossing the line within about a second and half of each other. You would imagine that if ever the Factory Norton was going to be outgunned, it would be at Spa. Neither the Gileras nor Nortons used fairings, but Amm must have been giving away about 20bhp..... What a rider he must have been, and what a spectacle to watch.

Aplogies chaps, got that ever so slighty wrong. Milani won by 50 odd seconds (after Duke pulled out when leading). The report in the 'Motorcyle' says Ray rode like a man possessed - he 'swooped faster, braked later and cornerd on his elbows' to get his much slower Norton into second ahead of Armstrong's Gilera by just a couple of feet.

This was the meeting where Sydney rider, Ernie Ring, lost his life after crashing the factory AJS.

Hi Russ, sorry can't open the link

Brilliant shot of one of the all time greats...the greatest according to my late dad !

Technical hitch Renn.... the Spa pic should noe appear on the lower link.

Thanks Russ

Refering to Geoff Duke, I've had always the feeling that his luck ran out somehow after the ban by the FIM, a hubris in recollection ...

As far as I know, the quarrel was about starting money for the privateers... why was Geoff Duke so much in the focus of the FIM ? Were any other riders banned ? How was the whole thing solved ?

He's always said to have supported the strike but I've never really known what role he played. Was he to blame for the ban in your view? The crowds in those days were enormous of course, and I bet they were paying peanuts to the riders.
Yes, in the first half of the decade perhaps only Ray Amm was on the same level? Lots of injury afterwards, and perhaps he lost some of his appetite for the game, particularly after being banned ?

No, not at all, it was the hubris of the FIM IMHO, that's what I tried to express...but, as I wrote in the edit of my previous post, I have no facts what really happened ... 2 years before, the works boys boycotted the German GP in Schotten, probably for good reasons I admit, but there were no sanctions ?

That's alright then.... After a bit of furious Googling I can find almost nothing on the Assen strike. I do though keep readng that Duke only supported the privateers who did one slow lap and came in. Makes sense I suppose, as Geoffrey would be contracted to ride regardless, therefore probably didn't actually strike himself. From memory this what my old dad always told me; in his view Duke was very hard done by. But then he always thought that he was diddled out of his first 100 mph Island lap too.....

Yeah, he certainly experienced some setbacks...the move from Norton to Gilera was'nt appreciated by most of the Brits I assume, wasn't there a kind of "schadenfreude" when he dropped out in his first TT on a Gilera in '53 ?

Edit: he won in fact that infamous race at Assen in '55

Hi Renn,Russell and all,
According to GDs book,he and Reg Armstrong were instrumental in trying to get the Assen organisers to up the privateers expenses.The organisers offered £20 which was turned down.They wanted £20 per start.Geoff and Regs' support was in some ways a payback for the Italian GP in '53,where the promoters were refusing to pay anything to British riders on Italian works machines!That time Fergus took a petition round the paddock and all the privateers signed.
At the end of the '55 season the Commission Sportive International held what appears to be a 'kangaroo court',and suspended Geoff,Reg, and 12 other riders for 6 months.3 Italian riders got 4 months suspension from any 'motoring sport activity' from the 1st of January 1956.He seems to think that the the verdicts were decided before the hearings.He also says that Assen crowds were generally over 100,000 so its not like they couldn't afford it.Geoff also says that could not forgive the fact that the 'colonial' riders at the time of the hearing,having returned home after the european season,were given no opportunity to defend themselves.No surprise there then!He goes on..Against his better judgement he made a public apology for his involvement,hoping it might bring some leniency,but all it got was permission to ride in national events.However the CSI did bring in regulations stipulating minimum start money levels in November '55,so I guess it was not in vain.
ATB HW

Thanks a lot Herr, what a shame how FIM/CSI treated the people who in fact ran the business..

Thanks for that Herr, interesting stuff. Oh, what a shame he apologised to he wankers.....I didnt know he did that. You would think the various factories would have been able to put pressure on the governing body...I suppose a more deferential age.

Yes, I think he was seen as being unpatriotic, and I think Ray Amm's continued competetiveness on the Nortons, undermined his claims about them being too slow. My old Dad said it was Nortons fault for not building a bike as quick as the Gilera - they wouldn't spend the dosh and were more intersted in their profits, he said..... I happen to think he was probably right

Yes,in hindsight it was wrong to back down to them,but we weren't there so...He said that Mr Gilera was mightily pissed off by their (the CSIs) lack of consideration for his commercial interests,and because of that didn't take much persuading to join the Italian factories mass withdrawal in '57,although MV welched on the deal I think.
HW

In Christian Spahn's Norton book, there are a few pages dealing with the 4 cylinder project, a watercooled engine originally developed by people who were also involved in BRM's F1 business. A single experimental engine with 125 cc existed but the original power output of around 10 hp was too disappointing to carry on. Also the engine with rotary valves in the form of a rotating barrel (don't know the correct technical expression ) was a project regrettably abandoned

BRIDGESTONE RACING

On the competition front, Bridgestone supported the Japanese National Road Racing Championship, running factory teams in both the 50cc and 90cc classes.

Just to make sure that the BS name didn't go unnoticed, tuning kits were also made available to private owners in limited numbers to modify standard 50cc and 90cc road bikes to full racing specification.

During 1964 and 1965, Bridgestone were the most successful marquee in these two classes.

The American importers, meanwhile, had encouraged the factory to produce limited numbers of race-tuned machines to compete in American enduro and dirt racing, and these factory racers appeared in 1965 and 1966 as the 90, 100 and 175 'SR' series, each based on the corresponding road bikes.

The 'SR' production racers were to enjoy considerable success in the hands of many American riders on both dirt and tarmac.

In 1965 the factory race department had designed the EJR-1 50cc water-cooled twin. This machine was very similar to the all-conquering Suzuki Grand-Prix competition in 1967.

The 1966 EJR-2 was much improved, and an entry was made fro the Isle of Man TT that year -- following in the footsteps of Messrs. Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki.

Unfortunately, the 1966 TT was delayed by a seamen's strike, and the BS team were unable to meet the new date.

Instead, the three EJR-2 machines were demonstrated and tested at several circuits in Europe -- Brands Hatch included -- and were entered for the Dutch TT at Assen.

In the race the bikes were ridden by Tommy Robb, Jack Findlay and Isao Morishita, and achieved creditable 5th, 6th and 9th places, but were still well behind the Suzuki twins which had greatly improved in the intervening period.

The expense of running a full-scale GP team, along with a declining interest in motorcycle production from the top brass in Tokyo, led to the closure of the race team at the end of 1966.

The tiny twins themselves were, fortunately, not consigned to the crusher.

At least two bikes still exist -- 1965 and 1966 bikes are on display in the Fuji Motor Museum in Japan, the 1966 bike being on loan from Ken Suzuki, who was race manager for Bridgestone at the time.

Back in Japan, the commercial success of the motorcycle division was beginning to cause its own problems.

The production line had shared premises with the tyre company at the Ageo plant near Tokyo since 1949.

Now both the tyre and motorcycle divisions needed to increase their production to meet consumer demand, and there simply was no room for expansion in the existing factories.

The decision was made that the tyre company should be alloted increased factory space at the expense of the motorcycle line.

The motorcycle side of Bridgestone had always been run as somewhat of a sideline, with profits being ploughed back into the general company coffers rather than being used for the design and development of new salable motorcycles.

Much of the development which went on was concerned with one-off racing and competition machines.

The new production models which appeared in the late Sixties were either cosmetic updates (the 175 Hurricane and the 350 GTO Street Scramblers), or simply overbored versions of existing models (the BS 100 and BS 200 ranges).

The only major new models produced during this period -- the BS 100GP and BS 100 TMX -- used the over-bored BS 90 engine in a chassis which was virtually a scaled-down version of the BS 175 Dual Twin.

In America, the growing environmental lobby was posing a serious threat to future sales of two-stroke engined vehicles, and this of course was a major export market for Bridgestone.

Also, the Bridgestone Tyre Company were suppliers of O.E. tyres to the other Japanese motorcycle manufacturers, and it has been suggested that these firms may not have been too keen to carry on buying their tyres from a rival motorcycle maker when there were other sources available.

Whatever the reasoning, Bridgestone decided to close the motorcycle manufacturing division in 1970/71.

The rotary valve engine being a mod to a Manx ? They should have built a multi cylindered, low centre of gravity, missile..... I thought I remembered seeing a photograh of the Watercooled four, a drawing perhaps? It does make you wonder: if they had moved on technologically on the racing front and some of this development had trickled down to thier other products, perhaps he Japanese s would have had more of a fight on their hands ?

Good morning, wonder how Jack Findlay felt aboard a 50cc twin looking for the pedals ?

Jack on the Bridgestone Rennmini TT-Assen 1966.

Thanks Ton , no offence intended towards the 50 cc fraction

Edit: the most successful Bridgestone must be the 125 of your fellow countryman Jos Schurgers I assume. I think it was a converted engine of a 175 cc street bike

Hi Russ, yes standard engine with modified head. Was developed between 52 and 54, but they couldn't solve the overheating...probably nowadays with ceramics... no valves hindering the gas stream, no oscillating valves, no restriction to valve sizes

Very much converted indeed, only the engine housing is from the 175 cc streetbike.

It looks like a 50cc Van Veen Kreidler with slightly bigger frame tube diameter ( Jaap Voskamp ), Marzocchi front suspension with Fontana brake, polyester made bij Jos.

Höckle crankshaft, overbored Van Veen cylinders ( tuned by Jörg Möller ), Mahle pistons, close-ratio 5 speed gearbox ( later 6 speed ) made by Herman Meijer, Kröber CD-ignition.

Jos Schurgers 1973 Spa-Francorchamps GP winning machine.

Hi Ton, wonder why he called that bike Bridgestone ? Did he receive money from them for doing so

Hi Russell
Your Dad was right, Geoff Duke was the first M/C superstar, I saw him robbed of victory in the 54 Senior TT when race was stopped after Duke had stopped the previous lap for fuel and Ray Amm went straight through. That was very contriversial, but he put matters right on the Island in 1955 with his near 100mph lap. His next season was marred by injury which put him out the running.
He suggested that Bob Mac should get the ride on the Gilera in 1957 and at the Golden Jubilee TT he wiped the field, this was to be the longest ever TT race held over 8 laps, John Surtees MV came second and Bob Brown on the second Gilera third. Dickie Dale on the magnificent Guzzi V8 finished fourth on 6 1/2 cylinders. Sadly I think it was Charlie Salt who crashed on the last lap and was killed.
I feel very privileged to have seen this fantastic riders.
Roy

Re racing Bridgestones. Cardiff dealer Wyndham Richards ("Richards Racing") campaigned a Bridgestone engined 350 in the late sixties. He called it an "Altair" and it was mostly ridden by local national runner Vince Chivers. Malcolm Uphill also had a few outings on it. If memory serves, it was quick but despite some perseverence, proved unreliable.

Hi Roy

Yes a great rider and by all accounts a nice bloke too. ( As a kid, he once spoke to me )

If you haven't visited this blog yet Roy, it has some fantastic shots from the period, especially Keith Bryen's. http://velobanjogent.blogspot.com/

I think it was Vince Chivers who punched fellow countryman, Tom Dickie, after they bashed into one another during a push start at Brands. This must have been around the late 60's and there was much comment in the bike press. I think too that the ACU were involved. Weird stuff then, perhaps even now.

Hi Russell
Yes I was full of admiration for Geoff, our sports first ambasador.
Thanks for the velobandjogent blog. What a collection of iconic Continental Circus shots. Keith Bryen will not be forgotten with his photos. I always thought that Keith Cambell was a forgotten World Champion and Australia's first. He was the brother-in-law to Geoff Duke and was lost so soon after being W/C.
Alan Burt brought back some memories, it is a shame that the tradition of wearing their countries emblem on helmets no longer exists. Though I see Bradley Smith had the St George cross on his helmet at Donnington, good for him.
I went out of my way in 1960 to see Jannie Stander after reading his incredible rides in SA on the Velo. I saw him at Mallory, Oulton and the IOM, but had a serious arm injury in the Dutch TT. he was a wild man. I remember Paddy Driver in the paddock saying how he was covered in dust as Jannie went grass tracking.
About this time (1961) the Robinson brothers Shaun and Tommy came to Silverstone before going on the continent with Willie van Leeuwan. I have not seen Willies name mentioned here.
Thanks for your interest,
Roy

A question for you Aussies,
In 1961(?) Trevor Pound came over from Australia. He was an aerodynamist and was experimenting with a plenum chamber on his Manx. Today we call it an air box, Trevor was years ahead of his time and limited with the layout of the Norton engine.
I have never seen his name mentioned, he had a technical review in one of the weeklies. I beleive he raced on the Continent, he had a Blood red helmet and matching mouth cover. Very stylish.
Roy

I was a de facto Aussie once Roy ..... I can only vaguely recall his name. I see from a bit of Googling that he was from Victoria and won at Bathurst sometime in the fifties. I wonder if Keith Bryen remembers him?

Hi Russell,
Or should it be ex-Digger. If you have means of asking Keith I would be interested how far Trevor got with development.
Another rider who we were to lose in his prime was Tom Phillis, before signing for Honda he did the Circus with Ron Miles. They had a Transit they shared. Was Rob Phillis any relation to Tom?
Thats a great photo of Keith Bryen and Keith Cambell in the Guzzi tent in 1957. Those photos of Keiths in colour are wonderful.
Roy

Certainly a good ´un, but more than that, what a superb pic. Really says it all. He was a bit before my time, but nevertheless, he remains a legend.