Trevor Pound was indeed an aerodynamicist from Victoria, who was seconded temporarily from the Australian Government to the Royal Aircraft Establishment, Farnborough, in 1960.

He was over here for two years at least - Eleanor Motors entered him in the TT in 1960 on 350/500 Nortons, but he retired in both races. I cannot trace a TT entry in 1961.

Incidentally, the "Official TT Website" database doesn't mention him at all!

He entered the Ulster GP in 1960 & 1961 - don't know about 1960, but he non-started in '61. He did, however, win the 500cc Yugoslavian GP that year.

I can remember his article(s?) on airboxes and plenum chambers in "The Motor Cycle" sometime around those years, but I'm damned if I can find it!!

Hi Roy,
I just emailled him a few moments ago with further encouragement to join us, so I 'll ask him later. Tom Phillis was from Sydney and Rob is a Victorian...I'm almost certain there is no link. Didn't Ron Miles die from heat exhaustion in Ireland or something equally bizzare ? Yes, those paddock shots in particular are some of the best ever.

Roy, do you recall Fred Neville ? He was killed in the Manx in '61.

Once again Larry, pretty impressive stuff- thanks.

[quote name='Russell Burrows' date='Aug 5 2009, 21:17' post='3786271']
Didn't Ron Miles die from heat exhaustion in Ireland or something equally bizzare ? Yes, those paddock shots in particular are some of the best ever.

[/quote

No Russ - Ron Miles was killed in practice for the 1961 Ulster Grand Prix - the very first road race that I spectated at. He fell off at the end of the Flying Kilo, which is just after the start/finish.

It was Thursday evening practice and, as I discovered in subsequent years when competing there, in the evenings you were riding straight into a very low sun, and could see bugger all . . . . . . .

The "heat exhaustion" thing came up several years earlier, in 1957. Aussie Roger Barker was riding a G45 at Schleiz, in East Germany. It was a boiling hot day, and he had a full dustbin fairing. Another Oz rider, Dick Thompson, was following him and reported that Roger "Sat up and rolled off the back" and suffered fatal injuries.

It was thought that heat build-up behind the fairing had affected him.

Same year, in Belgian GP practice, Roberto Colombo fell off his works 125 MV for no apparent reason and died - again, it was a very hot day.

It was thought at the time that such accidents were the primary cause of the FIM banning dustbins.

Latterly, "wind effects" were put forward as a cause, but Bill Lomas told me that he never had bother with the works Guzzis.

If Keith B comes on board, he might comment on this! I thoroughly agree that his photos are superb - he sent me a CD a couple of years ago with 130+ of them, from his entire career.

MAGIC!!!

Good morning to all ! According to Taveri's biography the reason for Colombo's crash was indeed strong cross winds. The bike Colombo was riding, in fact a 350, was also faired at the rear so probably even more delicate. Well, that's Luigi's point of view, who was a MV teamster during that period.

Hi Rennmax,
I always thought Colombo was on the 125 MV when he died, you learn something every day. I thought Luigi Taveri was the ultimate 125 rider, He rode the lot and sidecars, MV, Ducati, MZ, Keidler and Honda, a great lightweight rider. How long did MV race the 125 with the dustbin fairing with the 4 air inlets, 1955 to 1957?
Larry that was good to hear about Trevor Pound after all these years, one of M/C wonderful inovators. The Yugo GP he won must have been before it became a W/C meeting. Another was Stan Nightingale who was the first to use disc brakes, on his sidecar outfit.
I have found 'holes' in the IOM TT Database but its the best we have. I cannot find 2 Aussie sidecar riders in there, maybe the did not go to the Island. They are Bob Mitchell and Lindsey Urquart (not sure about the spelling) Any comments on these 'Chairmen'? Am I mistaken that a cup was put up for Ron Miles in Ireland in his memory?
I did see Fred Neville Russell at Brands and he stood out as a new find. Thanks for approaching Keith, those coloured photos are fantastic.
You guys have a wealth of info that must not be lost and forgotten.
Thanks to you all,
Roy

Hi Roy, Luigi Taveri was really outstanding, but Carlo Ubialli was brilliant as well as a 125/250 rider of that era... so was Rupert Hollaus in his short lived career, and Bill Ivy a decade later so who should get the "greatest" tag ? I think MV used dustbins even earlier, I have a pic in one of those books dealing with MV showing a 125 in Hockenheim in 54.
The 1st time the Yugoslavia GP was included in the w/c rounds was '69 I assume

Re 1st disc brakes



Freddie Dixon on his TT winning outfit with banking chair, way back in '23, hard to beat I guess

Hi Rennmax,
Well I asked for that, with the first disc brakes, out by 35 years, as I said you learn something every day! What a remarkable bike Freddie Dixon had.Great photo. To think Honda brought the caliper brake back 40 years later.
Yes Carlo Ubbialli was a great charger, I saw him in the 1959 125 TT fighting all the way to the flag with Tarqinio Provini on their MV's. I was at Signpost Corner and on the last lap Provini's hairpin valvespring whizzed by me, the marshal went to pick it up as a momento and got burnt a hand.
It is impossible to compare one great rider with another, we are so lucky to have had so many. My comment about the 125 MV Dustbin was specific to the 4 air intakes, 2 larger engine intakes above 2 smaller ones for the brakes. I think they came out with this version in 1955, then as you say started fitting rear fairings. What an incredible era.
I have been Googleing and found a referance to Lindsay Urquhart, he is a tuner on veteran bikes and cars in Australia, but nothing about his 'Chairing' days.
Enest Degner is always blamed for taking the Walther Kaaden MZ secrets to Suzuki and they soon changed their fortunes with this technology. Suzuki and Yamaha were light years behind the rotary inlet valve and expansion chamber design. So who was the brains behind Yamaha after this obsolete design? Sony Angel raced the first Yamaha in Europe.
Roy

Hi Roy, quite a couple of topics for one post

- disc brakes

Yeah, quite fascinating that they were already used on that Douglas, don't think they were already hydraulically operated, but nevertheless amazing

- Lighweight TT in 59

Fascinating that you remember that race so vividly, Signpost was a left hander then (Clypse course) ?

- Yamaha

Probably they were inspired a little bit by that bike resp. manufacturer



anyway, they learned fast without much European input gaining the worldchampionship in '64 with Phil Read on the rotary disc valve engined RD 56

WWW?

Our hero AB ?

Too easy, aye. Great shot though - must be around '66.

Oh dear, I almost had a moment there.
What a superb shot Russ. Great rider on a great bike at a great time in the sport. Superb. Thanks mate.
BTW What´s the story behind that pic. No numbers? Practice?

[quote name='Rennmax' post='3787014' date='Aug 6 2009, 16:55']Hi Roy, quite a couple of topics for one post

- disc brakes

Yeah, quite fascinating that they were already used on that Douglas, don't think they were already hydraulically operated, but nevertheless amazing

- Lighweight TT in 59

Fascinating that you remember that race so vividly, Signpost was a left hander then (Clypse course) ?

- Yamaha

Probably they were inspired a little bit by that bike resp. manufacturer



Yes, Roy, I'm certainly envious of you - the fifties were such a great period. I wonder why the Japanese didn't pinch the MZ technology before Degner's defection? And, if MZ could protect this information, why couldnt Suzuki? Sorry, I don't expect a definitive answer, just musing really?

Yes must be a practice session, Rhodie. It could be earlier, as this is amost certainly his own 7R, the bike he began racing with in '64?. He would have gone through a fair few fairings around that time.

the best true 125cc gp story i heard was bill ivy in the lead of the 125cc gp race in canada came in with out his mechanics knowing and told them to change the plugs on his 125 , which they did he rejoined the race still in the lead

http://racingmemo.free.fr/MOTO-GP-classements_67-125.htm


I think he had had enough lead for a quick nap too

Hi Rennmax,
Thanks for posting the great picture of the Adler. Siegfried Lohmann and Gunter Beer came to the International meetings at Oulton with the Adlers. This was a bike that got little publicity here as they were not readily available to the privateers here. Yes Yamaha did have influences from the Adler.
Wonderful days, though I have a very sad memory at Oulton Park in 1962 when the immortal BoB McIntyre was fatally injuried. I think that days return journey was the wettest ride I ever had, right through my Belstaff gear. A bitter memory.
Roy

Anyone know who these blokes are ?

the left one looks like a young Colin Seeley ?

Hi Renn- 50% for you.

It's the easy one Russ

Hi Russ , enjoying the cricket are you ?? I have a notion the other chappie is Jackie Beeton

Well done Phil.... sitting on Seeley's G50 outfit, early sixties. Enjoying the Paddock Club more at the momemt

Have a go at this chappie WWW

Crystal Palace, G50, Charlie Sanby, '63?

Hi Mick No Yes No No
I thought the bike was the hard part

Phil that was the easy bit (the 'M' on the tank is a clue)

Sod it I'm off for some Guinness I'm in the UK for another week

Where's the 'staggering' smiley?

Looks like Ron Chandler's style, so I'm going for Ron!

Well done Barry I thought it could have been one of several , ok then smart --arse where and what year ??

Wild guess - 1963 MGP?

The computer says nnnnnnnnnnooooooooooooooooo i'll come clean , Silverstone , 1960
Not out for a tonight Barry ??

I'm surprised that Ron was racing as early as 1960. (I'm not disputing!).
They look like Dunlop triangulars to me but I guess not - don't think they were around then. So what was the rubber of choice in those days - was it Avon GP's?

Only quoting from MCI , 1969 when he was described as in 1960 ' a star on his way up ' Barry

Hello again,
I hope this comes up as my last message was censored(?)
Another query on Colonial Chairmen, Aussie Bob Mitchell raced a Norton outfit in 1956 and had a serious crash at Floreffe. He looped the chair and was taken to hospital with suspected leg and ankle breakages. Did this finish his racing in Europe.
This was the meeting that Fergus Anderson on his new BMW crashed and was killed.
Roy

censored?

Hi Roy, the meeting you refer to was on 6th May '56, and according to these sources

http://www.eggersdorfer.info/fahrer/index19.html

http://racingmemo.free.fr/MOTO-GP-classements_56-SID.htm

Bob Mitchell scored at the TT, in Assen and Spa and these meetings were surely later in the year

Hi Rennmax,
Thats great detective work, thanks. So Bob raced in 1956 after his accident.
Now for another Colonial chairman, from SA. A party from Durban, SA visited the 'Motor Cycling' offices (The Green Un) in May, 1956.
JN Edwards had entries for 350/500 TT on Nortons, VJR Rowlands was to race in the sidecar TT on a Norton, passengered by Colin du Casse. Rowlands had raced at the IOM in 1948 on a solo Norton. The party had a manager FJ Cambell and later hoped to get other GP entries.
All these names are new to me so could anyone add anything else please.
Roy

Bob Mitchell finished fourth at Assen, and third at Spa. Late in July 1956, he received an offer to join the works BMW team, as he'd been up among the Beemers in practice at Solitude., and he was to go to the Frankfurt Motor Show in October to negotiate a fee. But between Solitude and October, the BMW board decided not to continue with a works team, and left the works machines with the existing riders. Mitchell was heartbroken, and his son Mark was born not long after, so Bob packed up and went home. He'd finished the 1956 title fourth overall, and the leading privateer behind Noll, Hillebrand and Harris.

Source : Australian Motorcycle Heroes by Don Cox and Will Hagon.

Hello GD66
What a sad end to a great career racing in Europe, never getting his just reward of a works ride. Thanks for the information on another of our sports past heros. He was passengered at the TT by Eric Bliss.
I have just about answered my previous query on 1956 SA racers.
Jack Rowlands passengered by DC Alcock came home 13th in the 1956 Sidecar TT and in 1957 they both came 8th in the IOM TT.
The Durban rider JH or JN Edwards was 35th in the 1956 500 TT and in the 350 came 31st. The IOM Database lists him as JH Edwards and the 'Motor Cycling' magazine has him as JN Edwards.
Any info on either of these Durban riders would be welcome.
Roy

Hi Guys, I've been looking at the site for some time and thought it was about time I joined in.

Great picture of the super quick Alan Barnett.

Hi to you as well ' ManxGeorgie ' welcome to the club , look forward to you joining in

Well Roy, I had the great pleasure of meeting Jack Rowlands. We were pitted next to a young fellow named George Rowlands on one occasion, and his Dad, Jack, who was a mechanic by trade, was giving him a hand.
As you quite correctly state, besides doing the 1956 and 1957 sidecar events, Jack also raced in the TT on a solo. Unfortunately, he was involved in a very bad accident, and because of his injuries, switched with remarkable effect to side car racing. Given his experience, his placing´s of 13th and 8th in the sidecar event´s was quite remarkable. I wonder why there is no record of his solo outing(s) in the TT database?
Oddly enough, he was better known as a solo competitor in South African racing, having won several major national events. I don´t want to make any extravagant claims, but I seem to recall he was either 350 or 500 South African champion one year. Maybe someone (Hironymous?) could confirm this (or refute it as the case may be).
Just as an aside, his son George and I became very friendly over the years, and he used to stay at our place when the lads from down south (South Africa) came up to our part of the world to race. I recall him telling me once that his Dad´s apprentice at work was showing a bit of promise on the race tracks, and that I should keep an eye out for him. Quite an understatement actually, as the apprentice turned out to be none other than Jon Ekerold.
Small world, isn´t it.

And just incase you guys think Seidenwagen´s never happened in the Southern tip of Africa, here´s proof. Bet nobody knows who they are though.

Yes, hello and welcome from me too, Manx. And yes, what a great shot.

The only sidecar driver of the later years that I can remember is Garth Neveling is this him.
The sidecar boys in the 50,s and early 60,s in South Africa certainly tried there best to put on a good show but the numbers dwidled during the years.
I do remember Jon recalling his days with the sidecar boys. Another name i remember from those days was Baldy Alexander.
Peter

Hi Rhodie and PMBoy,
Thats great input on the chairmen of SA racing. Yes I have puzzled why Jack Rowlands earlier solo visit to the Island is not recorded. Maybe he was injuried in the practice so never made the start.
Another colonial sidecar racer was Orrie Salter fron Australia, maybe someone could comment on him please.
I must thank 'Hieronymus' for his help on the racing at Paarden Eiland, Capetown which I saw in 1948.
Roy

Hi Peter. No not Garth Neveling, although I´m sure the names will be familiar to you as I´m almost positive two of the three drivers are PMB boys, and the other a leading Rhodesian rider who made his name on solo machines.
The leading machine (#11) is the 605cc/4 Honda engined outfit of Clive Meyer/ Graham Gultig, followed by my fellow Rhodie, Jimmy White with Phil Morgan in the chair of their 650 BSA powered outfit (#45), while the Colin Seeley look alike (#7) is Dennis Bosman and Barry Gielink, also on a 650 BSA powered machine.
The place, Roy Hesketh in 1974. Great days.

Hi Rhodie,
All the names are familier to me but I really had no idea that they raced sidecars. It shows you that most guys just like to race and would try anything as you say great days.
Peter

Completely off topic, but worth mentioning.
I was very friendly with Jimmy White who was a gent of the highest order as well as one of Rhodesia´s best young motorcycle racing talents in the mid seventies. Jimmy´s motto was, if it´s got wheels it´s got to be raced.
He had two sons, one of whom went on to win the South African superbike championship a few years ago, while his other boy, Gordon, was well on his way to becoming South Africa´s champion jockey, when he lost his life in a most bizarre accident. He, together with the trainer and owner of a horse he was going to ride in Mauritius were killed when the light plane they were travelling to the meeting in lost a wing at 7000 ft. I mean, hell, how often does that happen?