I prefer the look of these "as raced"period looking manxes to the new repro stuff
in their day people mixed and matched cycle parts

i remember seeing a repro manx a while back with a carbon fibre silencer

I do hope that the news of Alan Barnett's death is not correct. He really was one of the quickest and most stylish riders of the sixties and early seventies - easily talented enough to have gone on to full factory rides and even world titles.

[img=http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/1974/004fe3.th.jpg]


Where did you hear that?

One of the contributors on here thought he had died. Can anyone throw any light on this?

I just typed the words "book search" in Google and then when the site came up I typed in "Coin Seeley". Lo and behold, I was able to read from the great man's new book! Some good stuff in there . Now I'm going to have a look at the Manx Norton book ;) !

Why are the early Seeley frames preferred by present day 'classic' racers over the later versions without the down tubes?

Hi Russell,

The Mk3 Seeley frame - with no front down tubes - had the problem of flexing under heavy braking, which was cured by the addition of a bolt-on brace from the steering head to the front of the crankcase. Many owners used the Mk3 frame successfully with this modification (notably Gus Kuhn's bikes of the period). So I guess that is why the full-loop Mk2 frame is so popular. The later Mk4 "open" frame was more rigid at the steering head because the tubes did not cross over each other in the way that they did on the Mk3, but I seem to remember hearing that they were a bit fragile in a crash (but I don't know if that is true).
John Cooper's famous 500 Seeley was one of the earliest "full-loopers" Seeley made and for good reasons he stuck with it!

G'day all,
When I've been surfing for something over the past few weeks I've usually ended up here, so I thought I'd better register. So, gurus, fanatics and enthusiasts, can anyone tell me what became of a couple of my 1960s heroes - Ron Chandler, Alan Barnett, Joh Blanchard and Billie Nelson?

Also, was anyone else at Brands Hatch in Easter 1978 when KR750-mounted Gregg Hansford threatened to clean up Kenny Roberts?

Merry Christmas all!

Hi Bob, welcome to the forum, Billie Nelson was sadly killed I believe at the Yugoslav GP way back in the mid 70's.
Ron Chandler still parades his Trumph/BSA triple at Classic meetings in UK and Europe. I saw him recently!!
I was at Brands in 1978 for the annual Trans Trophy meet, Greg Hansford was not there then, I only remember him being at the FIM750 Championship races held at Brands in the summer 1978/79? (sadly I wasn't!! )
Not sure about Alan Barnett or John Blanchard?
Graham.

Ron Chandler earlier this year.

Photo copyrighted to Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

[img=http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/9761/063ronchandleriomdm3.th.jpg]

Ron Chandler 1965 IoM

I remember Ron Chandler diving inside John Cooper at the Esses (Mallory) Cooper slid off, landed on his bum and then slid backwards whilst looking over his shoulder until he hit the grass bank. He was OK but it cost him the race.

John Blanchard on his Mettise

Hi there

John on Colin Seeley's 'works' G50. He too was a class act, although he did chuck it up the road a lot; I can recall him dropping Seeley's Fath engined monster at Brands during a practice session and after they straightened the bike out Colin wouldn't allow John to ride it so he went out and tested it himself.

Re -Colin Seeleys Fath. Mooneyes wasn't the only one to part company with the bike. John Blanchard did . I believe he was the original pilot and had a good working relationship with Helmut Fath .The main problem I believe the exhausts were to low and grounded with obvious results . I think that is why J.B and Colin Seeley parted company . :\

Hi

My little anecdote was a reference to John Blanchard rather than John Cooper - sorry if I didn't make that clear. The relationship between Seeley and Blanchard did have its ups and downs. For example, after they fell out big style on the Island in 1967 ,Colin wouldn't allow John to start in the Junior race and only a last minute change of heart allowed John to start in the Senior - a race in which he did so wonderfully well, 100mph laps and all.

yes Russell I was lucky enough to be in the Island for the '67 TT races most of which I can remember we were at Glen Helen for the Senior and the sight of SMBH standing on the footrests fighting the big Honda will never leave me. What I can't remember is the 3 singles together-Blanchard, Cooper and-------- without looking it up .A great week !!

Seeley obviously knew his onions. He built the very successful chassis that housed the H1R engine, which was a great improvement on the original, if one looks at the improvement Korkie Balligton made once he switched to the Seeley frame. Also, John Cooper and his legendary Yamsel cleaned up on the British domestic scene.
To judge Colin´s success on his involvement with the Fath engine is unfair, as Helmut Fath lived in Germany, and, if nothing else, the distance separating them, as well as Fath´s lack of financial backing, must have assigned it to a part time project. After all, Colin had to make money out of his work, and I doubt if he was going to feed his family on the Fath project.
Peter, I believe you worked with Helmut Fath, so maybe you can shed a bit more light on the subject.

The great Peter Williams.

How could I forget Peter Williams I was going round the houses racking my pea-like brain thanks

Yeah, 100mph lap from a standing start with 50 bhp, skinny triangular tyres and all the bumps and kinks still on the road.

Yes I've heard The Kinks might be going back on the road !!

What a great achievement. Mindboggling in fact

makes you think which was best Bill Ivy's 100 mph lap on the 125 Yamaha 4 or 100 mph on a 500 single in 1967 although, of course the singles had been doing 100's since 1960 I think

[img=http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/8384/052peterwilliamsartermaxu1.th.jpg]

[img=http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1430/074williamsjpnce4.th.jpg]

He really was a star; I don't think anyone had achieved a ton lap from a standing start before this? As you know he finished second to Ago and almost averaged 100mph for the race.

Not certain what sort of grunt the little Yamaha had but it was probably more difficult to ride than a single, therefore this too was a great achievement. Was it it 67 or 68?

I stand corrected it was 1968 for the 100 lap on a 125 a great achievement no matter what .I think they pushed out 42-44 bhp which, if devolped even further would have been even more amazing I think

Thanks for the warm welcome, you blokes, and thanks for putting me right about Hansford's F750 appearances, Graham, the 1978 meeting was July, not Easter. I can't remember when the '79 meeting was scheduled.
The 1978 round was really something, Russell, and one of those meetings where the results sheets don't tell the story - Hansford finished fourth in the first leg and went gardening in the second. But he was dynamite that day. Apologies to Mick Grant, Barry Ditchburn, Garry Nixon and Mike Baldwin, but I've never seen a KR750 ridden like that before or since - he had the cheek to put it past the massed might of the factory Yamahas, swapping the lead with KR, Johnny Cecotto and I think Steve Baker, and did it for lap after lap.
But I must apologise for getting off forum - I didn't realise until after posting that this forum was for up to '68 chat only. I was looking for additional information on Hansford's 1978 Brands effort to bolster my own failing memories.

And thanks for the gen on Ron Chandler and JB. Good to know they're chugging along, although I was disturbed to the note about Alan Barnett's death. Is this correct?

With regards to Alan, the consensus appears he is still with us?
If you have not seen this thread Motorcycle racing 1969-1990 nostalgia here is a link so you can find it quicker!!
http://forums.autosport.com/showthread.php...477#post2965477
Graham.

Hi Gents,

Re. the 1967 Senior TT - it was a classic race, best remembered for the fierce scrap that ensued between the cream of single-cylinder mounted short-circuit scratchers - some already mentioned - for the runner-up spot! My all-time hero Malcolm Uphill was in the leading bunch for a while on Francis Beart's Manx (one of the first pair away with a Number 2 - a last minute substitute for an injured Jack Findlay, who was originally down to ride the bike). Sadly he retired with a broken engine, but not before recording a 100mph lap. I would have loved to have been there :\ !

The following TT website is an absolute MUST if you are not already aware of it - and also John Blanchard's own website!

http://www.iomtt.com/TT-Database.aspx

http://freespace.virgin.net/john.blanchard/page1.htm

Afternoon all I've just watched 'Diamond Senior' highlights of the '67 Senior Duke video to remind myself of what a great race it was .Although I was there I have to remind myself it was 40 years ago.!!! i'd even fogotten who finished 3rd ,4th, 5th and 6th .If anyone hasn't seen it in UK I am willing to lend it for postage costs . It might be still be available from Duke- I don't know . Also on the tape is the 1979 senior .

I did work for Helmut but that was in 1978 and we worked on the flat 4 2 stoke engine only. I found Helmut a very hard task master as his work regime was very fixed start early and finish late everyday. I did learn a lot from him about engines and it is an expierance i am very gratefull to have achieved (thanks Jon). Helmut was not an easy man to deal with, as he had his own ideas and that was that as along you could agree with him everything was fine, I can understand why people fell out with him, but he was a hugely gifted engineer and has certainly left his mark on the motorcyle racing world.
cheers
Peter

One for you Peter.

I just love the expressions as they gun-it out of the esses towards the hairpin.

That is a superb photo!!

Thanks for that,
It is a great picture and the expression on the faces is pure concentration. Helmut always enjoyed his racing in the UK and always made the effort to get across the water. The cleanliness of the bike is typical of Helmut as his view was to get the engineering right first and not worry about the appearance,he did not beleive in giving things a coat of paint as that added weight and also stopped you from spotting anything un toward that might be happening. The outcome to this view was a very well engineered bike/sidecar but the appearance left a lot to be desired.
cheers
Peter

Here one of my second favourite rider.

Another of the great man.

And my favourite shot of him.

What a great shot of a great rider screaming the nuts off the 6 I can allmost hear it even now thanks

Peter, I have noticed your mentions on this and the 1990 thread about Helmut Fath. I was lucky enough to read the fascinating bio of Jon Ekerold, where he revealed that Fath, the legendary tuner, had a small shed on a steep, snowy hillside above Ursenbach, that took a number of attempts in a car to get to if conditions were snowy, and had a removable wall to get projects in and out of the dyno area, and that Fath, a renowned chain smoker, would end the day with his workshop dustcoat pocket full of cigarette butts, eccentric but incredible. Can you perhaps elaborate a little to give us more of an insight into the workshop machinations of this complex but passionate man ?

Could anybody help me in regards to what happened in the 1961 500cc Argentinian Grand Prix?

52 laps of a changed Buenos Aires configuration (due to weather), 6 starters, 6 finishers, 5 of whom were only wildcards. The only full-time rider was F. Perris.

Can someone tell me what happened?

In Vincent Glon's excellent "racing memory" site ( only in french )
http://racingmemo.free.fr/MOTO-GP-CH%20MONDE.htm
it says the following :

La F.I.M. a souhaité donner une dimension mondiale aux championnat et a accédé à la demande de l'Argentine d'organiser un Grand-Prix.En raison des coûts de déplacement on n'y verra que les pilotes officiels Honda, un pilote Yamaha et, en 500, le privé Frank Perris (......) Indigne d'une épreuve de championnat du Monde, la course des 500 voit la première victoire d'un Sud-Américain et de la Matchless G50. Jorge Kissling, le héros du jour, disparaitra dans un accident d'auto en 1968. Sur les six pilotes classés, seuls deux étaient encore en course à l'arrivée.Matchless n'avait pas gagné une "classique" depuis le TT 1910 !

Which translates roughly as :

The FIM wished to give a greater dimension to the championships and accepted Argentina's offer to organise a Grand Prix. Due to travel costs , only the factory Honda riders, one Yamaha rider, and , in 500cc, one privateer, Frank Perris, took part. Unworthy of world championship status, the 500 race saw the first victory for a south-american and for the G50 Matchless . Jorge Kissling, the day's hero, died in a car accident in 1968. Of the six classified riders, only two were still running at the finish. Matchless hadn't won a classic since the 1910 TT !

I do have some things to say about that article.

The bikes were one Matchless (Kissling) and the rest were on Nortons. Apart from Perris, I believe the rest only seemed to be wildcards. None of the other riders participated ever again in anything other than Argentinian Grand Prixs, or some even only raced in that one race.

(My source is the MotoGP official results guide, 1949-2005, 2006 Edition)

As it's a bit quiet over here - anyone recognise whose bikes these were ?

Apolgies once again, Ive lost the picture somewhere!

Found it! A 350 Manx and a G50, but who rode them?

;) Hi Russell . I seem to recall Chris Conn riding No 7 years before Mr Sheene hi-jacked it Isn't that the old paddock at Brands ??

Hi there, you're right it is Brands but the bikes are not Chris Conn's. If I recall correctly, the rider is the guy in the leathers on the left. He was never a star as he met with a career ending accident but for a short while he was almost up there with the quickest of them.
The pic was taken around 1964 by myself when a hanging around the paddock as a kid. I did have quite a few but over the years many have been lost or whatever.

The old paddock certainly had one thing lacking now ,atmosphere and if you got a pitch under the corrigated you were doing well . The noise of the different machines 2 and 4 stroke singles and multi's all echoing out of the corregated fantastic !! what memories

Yeah, and the sound of a big single as it kinda sucked back in through the megaphone when going through the tunnel! Ah dear, anyway, more clues as to the identity of the rider in the picture. Around the time the pic was taken he was regularly finishing third or fourth, particularly at Brands, against the likes of Minter, Read, Dunphy, Driver etc. He later had a huge crash during practice for, I think, the Dutch TT at Assen. I'm almost certain that he never rode again. I think also that Im right in remembering that the Manx was an ex Phil Read bike. I can recall him going better on the Manx rather than the G50, and on several occasions giving Minter some hurry up when on the smaller bike. Any offers???

I've no idea who he is :\ but a few more clues might help did he have an entrant/sponser ?

I think he was unsponsored, which as you know was not that uncommon in those days. He had a very distinctive riding style in that he hung off the bike - not in a Paul Smart kind of way - with his upper body only. I do hope I'm nor the only one to remember him !