Motorcycle racing: 1949-1968 nostalgia

Its intersting that Ralph has pulled back the twenty seconds on the EMC - surely a quicker bike than the Bulseizo ? I found something in an old mag recently wehere Tony was explaining that contrary to poular belief his Yamaha didn't seize in '63....cant though remember now what he said was the cause of his career ending crash.

Edited by Rennmax, 07 December 2009 - 19:02.

Good Evening 1959 MZ 125 and 1960 EMC 125 . See what you mean about the Expansion Chamber, Renn

Edited by Russell Burrows, 07 December 2009 - 19:27.

Thanks for the direct comparison of the 2 bikes. The left engine case looks nearly interchangeable, doesn't it ?

Blimey, a finned barrel as well as water cooling..... Wasnt it around '61 that Kaaden withdrew at least some of the Mz's from the island because the altitude and atmospherics were playing havoc with them in that they keept seizing ?

How did two strokes piolts on the Island deal with the altitude changes, then and now ? Did they have to jet up over and above what was really needed just in case?

Edited by RRT2, 07 December 2009 - 20:48.

Hello Russ. you're right in 1961 Alan Shepherd and Ernst Degner were withdrawn from the 250 TT as you say due to carburation problems.

I believe ( I sure I will be corrected ) that the mixture was richened (is that a word??) by use of the air control. (choke i suppose) on the climb up the mountain.
Seem to remember Hugh Anderson mention it somewhere.

Spot on about the air lever.
HW

You're welcome Renn. I agree about the left hand cover. The piston / bore clearence must have got a bit tight with the rear facing exhaust port

The fining was not for cooling but to stop the barrel distorting

How did two strokes piolts on the Island deal with the altitude changes, then and now ? Did they have to jet up over and above what was really needed just in case?

Surely it's richer up high, with the same fuel but lower air density, Mick ?

Here's a close up of the other side of the EMC engine

Sorry chaps, it's not an EMC engine.

It's an MZ, just as "Doctor" Joe ran an "EMC" racer after the war which was a pre-war DKW racer.

The man was a chancer, and a bad-tempered one, to boot.

Sorry chaps, it's not an EMC engine.

It's an MZ, just as "Doctor" Joe ran an "EMC" racer after the war which was a pre-war DKW racer.

The man was a chancer, and a bad-tempered one, to boot.

Edited by Russell Burrows, 07 December 2009 - 22:55.

I'm becoming confused: are we building a consensus here that Dr Joe merely copied the MZ's ?

I'm becoming confused: are we building a consensus here that Dr Joe merely copied the MZ's ?

I don't think he was much of an innovator.It seems to me that the promise was seldom realised.With his Germanic connections it would not be too difficult to 'discover`things that others could not!
HW

Edited by Russell Burrows, 07 December 2009 - 23:17.

It's not a claim I've heard before Herr...... Hailwood managed third in the 125 world champs in '61 and both him and Minter scored more than a few wins on them. As an Austrian who had been in Britain from the thirties, I suppose it's possible could have had some inside info around disc valve racer development from Communist East Germany before producing his own in 1960 ? But you do have to wonder how that might have worked....

Edited by Rennmax, 08 December 2009 - 08:41.

Russ, the story at the time was that Walter Kaaden wanted a set of Roadholders, but of course couldn't buy them (no Western currency), so a swap deal was done for a 125 MZ motor.

Read Jan Leek's MZ history, if you can get a copy - excellent book.

As for SMBH going so well on the EMC - the 125 MZ was a bloody good motor!

Good morning chaps, although out of this thread's era, I wonder about those EMCs which did so well in the Junior TT in 87 and 86, scoring a win and finishing runner up both times. (Junior, 250 oder 350 then ?? ) Any info about the engines ? Rotax tandems or something self constructed ? Thanks

As far as I know, Renn, thay were Rotax tandems.

Why change the habits of a lifetime?

......" and, with the target behind them, the massive bomber levelled out, the even drone of its' four Merlins overtaking the moments of terror and panic, and reassuring the crew as they headed for home, another mission completed. Alone in the turret, his chiselled features lit by the soothing glow from the instrument panel, Russell realised....he'd been discussing .... TWO-STROKES !!" ....

Edited by kerrowmoar, 08 December 2009 - 11:30.

"Was he an enthusiastic bike builder or was it a rich mans hobby,did he have a factory with staff or was it a small operation"

i take it none of you historians have the answer

think i will go back to the nineties forum

plenty of two stroke talk over there

"Was he an enthusiastic bike builder or was it a rich mans hobby,did he have a factory with staff or was it a small operation"

i take it none of you historians have the answer

think i will go back to the nineties forum

plenty of two stroke talk over there

Edited by ex Rhodie racer 2, 08 December 2009 - 16:47.

......" and, with the target behind them, the massive bomber levelled out, the even drone of its' four Merlins overtaking the moments of terror and panic, and reassuring the crew as they headed for home, another mission completed. Alone in the turret, his chiselled features lit by the soothing glow from the instrument panel, Russell realised....he'd been discussing .... TWO-STROKES !!" ....

I´ve posted this on the South African thread, but I thought I´d stick it in here as well, just for those of you who don´t read all the threads.
An old friend and superb m/c racer passed away last weekend, someone many of you might have seen plying his trade on the continental circus in the 60´s.
RIP Erroll.
http://www.roadracin.../?article=38878

But as the pale winter sunlight flickerd through the only partly curtained window, a warm sense of relief enveloped him as the realisation dawned that it was all a horrible dream; his eyes settled on the beautiful contours of the 7R, a print of which hung framed on his wall....ah he thought, all is right with the world.

Edited by exclubracer, 08 December 2009 - 14:14.

As far as I know, Renn, thay were Rotax tandems.

Why change the habits of a lifetime?

;)

But as the pale winter sunlight flickerd through the only partly curtained window, a warm sense of relief enveloped him as the realisation dawned that it was all a horrible dream; his eyes settled on the beautiful contours of the 7R, a print of which hung framed on his wall....ah he thought, all is right with the world.

He then strolled down to his centrally heated garage , opened the re-inforced doors , switched off the alarm system , on with the lights , to view his stable of immaculate TZ's complimented by a couple of RG's and a DKW

He then strolled down to his centrally heated garage , opened the re-inforced doors , switched off the alarm system , on with the lights , to view his stable of immaculate TZ's complimented by a couple of RG's and a DKW

My vague memories of Dr Joe are that he was not short of money and operated EMC more as a hobby thing than as a business. It was based in Isleworth from memory.
I remember his Puch powered 125s that ran short open megaphones and made an ear splitting noise but didn't seem to go as fast as the noise suggested they should.
I wanted to buy one but couldn't get one.
This would have been mid 50s.
125s were like hens' teeth in those days.
With regard to Ernst Degner I have in mind reading that he was found with his throat cut and it was put down to suicide.
Maybe I'm drinking too much methanol these days.

He then strolled down to his centrally heated garage , opened the re-inforced doors , switched off the alarm system , on with the lights , to view his stable of immaculate TZ's complimented by a couple of RG's and a DKW

The warm, 5000 sq m facility was bathed in bright light, reflecting from the unmarked Italian marble-tiled floor. The large, specially commissioned Don Morley photos offered colourful relief on the otherwise minimalist neutral-shaded walls.
His small team of technicians, neatly dressed in matching white shirts an dark trousers, were already at work. A brace of RGBs stood secure in the plush ex McLaren transporter. Within minutes the TZ750s and the DKW would join them.
He marveled at how his simple operation brought him so much pleasure.
His thoughts were broken by the howling Trans Atlantic startline ring tone of his iPhone
Using voice activation, he answered.
"Yes, Reg, of course, you can bring a couple of friends with you," he said eventually.
He looked forward to seeing Reg's face, and those of Digger and Croz, too, when they arrived for the private play day at Silverstone.
There was just time to catch a glimpse of the newly acquired NSR250 and NSR500 as the transporter tail door locked closed.

Edited by Stu Pidman, 09 December 2009 - 03:09.

So he sighed deeply , pondering if he should take some exercise , or go for a ride on his bike , donned his leather flying jacket , goggles and Cromwell and fired up the Scott as it started to rain rather heavily . Oh , well , he said , it's the car today , which shall it be , the 1966 Saab 96 or the Wartburg

Hi Russell, coming along nicely thanks.
I'm waiting for some longer rear suspenders to arrive, going to raise the back about 25mm.
Then its only a matter of drilling and lock wiring as necessary, battery and fuel in, and, with luck, off we go.
Will keep you posted.
One day I might stagger into the 21st century and manage to put up a photo of it.
I will need a teenage mentor to help me.
Cheers, John
PS Some seem to have a fairly high opinion of Mr Degner, one which I don't share.
I think he was a low life rat of a man.