Ray
Is this the “flat single” Manx you were thinking about?
It’s a 1956 350cc in Sammy Millers Museum.
Paul

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/32315868@N03/3170702227/" title="Sammy Miller Motorcycle Museum 034 by PeaTJay, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1292/3170702227_4d19b7e30b.jpg" width="500" height="320" alt="Sammy Miller Motorcycle Museum 034"></a>

Paul - there are two Norton "F" 350s extant - Sammy has one with Roadholders, and John Surtees has resurrected one which he has fitted with the "Mark 2" McCandless trailing link forks.

Hi Ray - only you (or possibly I) could have come up with "Norton-Aermacchi" !!

Thanks Larry
I don’t know why my picture didn’t show, I tried twice but nothing.
Being prehistoric doesn’t seem to work with modern technology.

Larry,

Hi. Hope you are well. It does look like one I think!! Mick Walker's 'Manx Norton' book has a photo of a partly-assembled bke, and the frame construction looks almost identical. I suppose Norton actually got there first then - what a shame they didn't continue with the idea.

All the best.

Ray

Paul,

Thanks - I shall get along there and have a look! It's less than an hour away from us down in the New Forest, and I think he has quite a few interesting machines tucked away there.

All the best

Ray

Hi Ray - we're fine - and you?

I think you'll find that Moto Guzzi got there first - and did it best!

Coincidentally, I spent some time today with a friend of the same vintage as myself who, in his day, raced KTT Velos, 7Rs and Manxes when they were the bikes to have.

He also had a couple of outings, in the late 60s, on Trevor Barnes's ex-Arthur Wheeler, ex-factory 350 Guzzi of 1957 vintage - he reckons it was the best going and handling racer he ever rode!

Nothing is new . . . . . . . . . . .

Reverting to the Norton "F", and according to Charlie Edwards, he and Ray Amm took it to MIRA in late 1954 for what turned out to be its only outing.

Back at Bracebridge Street, Ray was over the moon, only to be told that Norton were packing up the works team - no more specials.

Apparently, he immediately rang MV (from Nortons!) and asked if they had a place for him.

Sadly, did they ever . . . . . . .

Shown in the MCN of 12/11/1958 The Nougier http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/7681/1xnougier.png

Mick Woolett reports. http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/292/2xnougier.png

Doesn't appear to be too much wrong that aset of 'Roadholders' wouldn't fix !
Must have made Herr Fath think very hard !

HW

Though his initial concept allegedly was a 4 cylinder watercooled boxer, but developing additionally a own gearbox/secondary drive was beyond even his enthusiasm....

The 1971 Nougier 250 twin mentioned before
http://www.lecaav.com/musee-moto/nougier-4.jpg

And another view of the 500/4
http://www.lecaav.com/musee-moto/nougier-1.jpg

Both as they are today in a museum near Marseille. They take on the track occasionnally...

Larry,

We're good thanks - haven't been on here for a while - work, moving, and a few other things to deal with, but all settling down again now!

An interesting era for your friend to have raced in. You are right of course, it all started with Moto Guzzi, and what amazing things those singles were. I think the KTT was another milestone in development - though girder forks can't have been easy. Surprisingly, I can actually say I have ridden with them! Dennis and I grafted some old scrap ones we found onto a pushbike - they went on there okay with some reconditioning work and a few little mods, but it was a bit front end heavy for jumps and wheelies! Fast forward 20 years and someone invented the mountain bike - were we ahead of our time or what??

It was such a shame Norton didn't persevere with the type F. Ray Amm was obvously impressed, and I'm sure he would have turned in some real results with it. I wonder how it handled? I think it is the potential weak area with the spine frame - certainly the Aermacchi used to jump about a bit compared to the Ducati I started racing on. I assumed it was all down to the frame flexing. Interesting to know how the Type F compared to the Featherbed frame.

Incidentally, things have come full circle on the pushbike front! Last year I got a Trek 400 with front suspension, alloy frame and disc brakes. - it weighs virtually nothing! I can wheelie it too, but Carol keeps telling me not to do them!

All the best

Ray

Perhaps they're no longer de rigueur, but we can still whack one up now and again, can't we? WWW?

Hi,
I have not been on for while now but seeing that it was a WWW I thought to give it a go.
I would say it is Assen not sure when maybe 1966.
The bike at the front looks like a twin Paton and then I think there are a couple of Bultacos following,
The only rider I feel sure of is Jim Redman no4 and maybe Ginger Molloy no30
Not much else to add
Peter

Russell,

Oh yes they are. Always good to see them!

Not sure, but Alberto Pagani, Paton 19, Ginger Molloy, Bultaco 36, Jim Redman, Honda 4, don't know the others, but one other Bultaco in there - Dutch TT Assen 1964?? Redman's Honda looks like a four and they had the six in 1965 I think. De Strubben? (it's the only corner name I know there anyway!!)

ATB

Ray

It certainly looks like Alberto Pagani on a Paton. 1965 250 Dutch TT. Barry Smith Bultaco. If its not Jim Redman, Bruce Beale Honda.? Don't know who 16 is. Ginger Molloy Bultaco and Kevin Cass Cotton

Possibly Rex Avery #16

HW

Well done boys, you've nailed most of them. Pagani on the Paton leading Barry Smith on his TSS, then Brucle Beale -who is has to be said is often difficult to distinguish from his mentor, Redman - on what appears to be a CR72, with Rex Avery on another Bultaco, and Marsovsky following him also riding a Bultaco, and someone who could well be Kevin Cass at the rear. Assen in, I think, '65. it is possible to see a bigger version at the source

Can anyone ID these dudes?

I'll credit the source after someone tells us who's who.

I think I can see Tommy Robb & Rod Gould? not bad for a youngen I hope!

Russell,

John Surtees third from left, and is it Ralph Bryans to the right of Tommy Robb?? Looks like a car meeting maybe?

Ray

And John Surtees third from let ? At some kind of joint bike-car meeting ( looks like the old Le Mans grandstands in the background

edit : dammit....pipped at the flag !

Chris Conn far right ??

Rod Gould, John Surtees, Joe Dunphy, Tommy Robb - Dont know - Dont know - Chris Conn.

If phillipe7 is right there was a motorcycle race at the Le Mans Test Day once (cannot for the life of me remember what year) but DSJ of all people did the report for Motorcycle Sport.

Agreed , Jim sure looks like Joe Dunphy to me

There was indeed a motorcycle race called "Le Criterium de l'ACO" which was staged from 1961 to 1970 on the "long" Le Mans Circuit during the April test days for the 24 hours car race , taking advantage of the roads being closed for the occasion ( the long Le Mans track wasn't - and still isn't completely today - a "permanent" circuit ) .

Details and result on the late Vincent Glon's website :

http://racingmemo.free.fr/M%20FRANCE/MOTO%...E%20CRIMANS.htm

Agree with all the answers, and I think third from right is Lewis Young?

And I think it's 1967, as the car appears to be a Lola T70 which JS drove that year.

Paul M

Yes chaps: Gould; Surtees; Dunphy (how often did he venture to foreign parts ?); Robb; I think, Lewis Yong and Rob Fitton, next to Chris Conn. It is Le Mans, and apparently, despite the dodgy fifties haircuts, it's 1967.
Pic courtesy of vintage-motorcyle.com.

So would the mechanic be Jim Potton ?

Erm....could well be

Anyone knows this one ??



Looks a bit like the Marsh but what does the S in 'S4' stand for ?

Nice looking machine, I especially like the heel and toe gear change

Isn't there something of the car motor about this one, Renn? Who I wonder would build what appears to be a muliti cylindered engine at that time and use a small single carb ?

Italian ??

HW

Looks like something Simson could have done..

Which one , Bart , or Homer ??

Stop joking!... really, I´m trying to be serious here!

Yep, the only, at least visible, carb looks pretty strange. I guess the engine ís too compact to be derived from a car engine, the awful long drive chain for the camshafts looks a bit home constructor made IMHO

Surely a factory production, there's some serious pattern-making expertise in those castings. Could the gearbox be an oldish Sturmey-Archer, a la pre-war Nortons, etc?

Looks like one of those upright Norton boxes to me Terry

HW

That'll be the Norton "doll's head" box.

Plus - I've only just noticed two carbs with a shared float chamber, rather than one as sugested by Russ B ?

A British "special"??

Yeah, I see it now - seems to be set lower than the other one ? Or that might be my minces.

I think there are 4 there.
I think I can see two venturi on this side of the frame and three fuel lines so presumably there are two more venturi on the blind side.
Anyone seen my white stick?

Nicked from those superb French links on our 1969-1990 forum.
Its begging to be WWW'd!

L/R. Pat Mahoney, Terry Grotefield, Neil Kelly, Percy Tate, Kevin Kass, Mike Hailwood, Phil Read, Rodney Gould, Barry Randle, Brian Ball, Rex Butcher, Ray Pickrill, Giacomo Agostini, John Cooper.

On the ball as usual Jim!

And it's Gordon Daniels at the back between Percy and Read ..... and could that be a bit of Alan Barnett's helmet showing alongside Cooper?

Hi, I am years late with this but I saw Paddy Drivers Jaguar transporter on the IOM ferry in 1966. It had a coachbuilt estate back with ash trim, a la Morris Minor. Two race bikes with front wheels out would easily fit in the back. One would imagine that getting to a meeting on time was not a problem! I've also read the next post along where another poster has put the same info on. I'll get the hang of this forum one day...........

Oh okay, I just looked quickly without my specs and I thought it was Kevin. The name Gordon Daniels means really not a great deal to me now to be honest. Could be AB next to JC, but I would not like to say - Again, I can't see enough of him, it would just be a guess..

Extreme left in black helmet - Tony Godfrey?