I am going for #19 Nick Boret and #3 Mick Boddice just guesses though!

Russell

If No30 was Ray Pickrell, he changed his helmet design to one where the chevron came to a point. Not that I'm doubting you at all ;)

As for the sidecars, could No3 be Charlie Freeman?

Good punts on the outfit blokes, but none are right chaps I'm afraid. Dead giveaway clue : number 3 later used a four cylinder engine.

It was Ray's earlier design Paul. Looks to me like he later pinched Peter Preston's design ?

Are Terry Vinnecombe, John Tickle or Owen Greenwood amongst the sidecars by any chance?

Well done, sort of : Terry is number 19. Not Tickle nor an NSU oufit though. PMSL when I first saw the creation that was later raced by no 3.

Yes, well done, your edited version is correct. Its Owen Greenwood on his Triumph outfit before the days of the Mini.

Russell, my edit and your reply overlapped - so Owen Greenwood?

"One of them died at a very early age due to non racing circumstances."

Which one, please? I'm just reading the excellent Colin Seeley book at the moment and it brings back memories as to how controversial Owen Greenwood's trike was to the remainder of the sidecar riders. I'll write more about this impressive book in the 'Books' thread when I've finished it.

Yes I agree it was unfair but Owen Greenwood was only exploiting the loosely written rules of the time. It wasn't a winner from Day 1 and he did a lot of work on it before he became just about unbeatable. The two rear wheels were allowed as the rules mentioned that provided they were only so far apart, a bit like an Isetta I once owned, that was fine. I thought it would have been fairer for him to have started from the back of the grid, and to watch him work his way through the field. I remember Lance Weil on his Harley having to receive a push start from the back of the grid at Lydden a few times as he seemed to fall off and hurt himself a fair bit. His stunning rides to catch and beat Charlie Sanby on the last bend of the last lap were superb.

When reading the Colin Seeley book, it's quite astonishing to read about the paltry money the riders used to earn in those days. £10 here, £15 there. Amazing.

i saw the "mini" race lot's of times at brands hatch and it was unbeatable.
owen and his partner terry fairbrother?(both now deceased) were very unpopular with the crowds and were often boo'ed after the race.
it was a CAR!.

OK then, have you noticed the title of the thread has changed? with "merged" being added, what was it merged with?

Twinny!! Stuart, can you help?

Perhaps not all of you bother to look in to the Books 'sticky' at the beginning of the forum - I've added a review of the Colin Seeley book there.

Evening chaps
A friend of mine phoned me today to tell me he is working with a guy who used to race in the 60's, he retired in 1969, his name is John Ringwood, does he ring a bell with anyone? I looked in my Crystal Palace book, and he beat one Barry Sheene and Chas Mortimer at Easter 1969, and he still holds the lap record for the Palace on a 125, he rode an MZ125 and I think a 250 or 350 Yamaha.
If any one knows anything else would like to hear about it.
Cheers,
Graham.

Absolutely, he got a mention a while back, as did the MZ , which was a very exotic piece of machinery indeed in those days - and it had escaped from the workers paradise! Good to know that he is still around. I was asking Chris, the original poster, if the bike was owned by Tony Blain, as I suspect it was. I wonder Graham If you would at some time ask your friend to ask........ I wonder how they got hold of it ? I have a suspicion that Tony Blain has left us, but be good to hear news to the contrary.

Yes of course Russell, I will give my mate a ring now.

Graham,

John Ringwood used to ride for my Dad at one time. I remember seeing him at Crystal Palace when in short trousers (him, not me). A pic first posted a few pages ago - in good company.



This is what he used to ride, I think. A TDIC in a bespoke frame

Hi Chris, I have just finished talking to my friend and he said that John used to ride for Ted Broad, so there you go, thanks for the photos I dont remember seeing them before, but the memory is not what it once was!!
Apparently John Ringwood is a tiler (kitchens/bathrooms etc not roof!) now.
I have asked him to ask how they got the MZ125 and if Tony Blain was involved, I have also asked if he can be pointed in the direction of this forum.

The Rickmans had a third brother?

John Ringwood MZ125 was the ex Derek Woodman bike, that he was given by MZ as a thank you for sevices rendered, and Tony Blain bought it of Derek Woodman for £1500.
Hoping that John will join us all on here soon as he took down the forum details.

Thanks for that Graham. Blimey, that was a lot of dosh in those days. Hope he joins us.

Yes chaps I remember John Ringwood a good stylish runner from the late 60's Had a couple of good seasons about the time of the late Dave Browning -also a front runner - British Champ 250's ? Graham did you get an answer to your merged question ?

Not yet!!

It was something deemed to be off on a bit of a tangent; I contributed to it, but buggered now if I can remember what it was. I've had a look, but difficult if you don't know what your'e looking for.

That keeps me out then !!!

Some gems I found on YouTube - enjoy!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=e1EFrUSVmyQ&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=71r8G07ou6w&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1MFw8bc9h6w&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_4L1fHkJaDM&feature=related

Thanks for that - wonderful stuff. How many others often pulled a sickie on Wednesdays? At one time I worked in a place that was dead opposite my flat, which made sneaking of in the van to Brands difficult, but I was never caught.

yup,i was allways going sick on wednesdays.
if i remember it was only a few quid and you could ride round all day for that!.
i remember also one day when it was the cars turn a car rolled coming out of clearways,sadly the driver died.
it was found out later that he was a company*rep* and the car was his firms,he was suposed to be somewhere else doing buisness.
from then on you had to show a competition licence.

I've been surfing again! Mike Duff was mentioned recently - there's some great pictures on her website:-

http://www.michelleduff.ca/index.html

I got a signed copy of her book a few years ago and she comes across as a rearly modest person. Incidentally, motorcycle racing books are noted (at least by me) as not being particularly good reads but "Make Haste Slowly" is easily one of the most readable. I plan to ride from Alaska across Canada in 2009 and aim to stop by for a cuppa tea if she's in. Well there's an invitation on her website.

Anyone ever lusted after one of these? Seeley's margins were surely extremely low ? These are 1971 prices.

Check the prices for this stuff now in CR ads

Even allowing for inflation, how times have changed !!

Yeah - lusted after one - then got one - then flogged it three years later (in bits) after piling it into the wall at Glentramman in '75 !

Oh dear - lovely looker though aye. Is it a Mk 3? Any history?

Yes - bought from Vin Duckett in '73 - reputed to be ex-Alex George, but I have not found any reference at all to support this claim. It was a Mk3, complete with the long Blair exhaust system (although I later reverted back to the regular short reverse-cone) and 5-speed Shaftleitner box. Engine number was CS11. I had a couple of club wins and places on the bike before crashing it into the wall at Glentramman in practise for my maiden MGP in '75. The engine was sold to George Ridgeon and what was left of the cycle parts went to a bloke who intended to putting a Konig engine in it. Happy days indeed !

Former motorcycle racer Pete Kellond has posted some photos by the late Canadian photographer and journalist Ted Langton-Adams. The photos are of motorcycle racing at the Westwood, B.C. track in the early 60s. Here is the link.

www.modernmotorcycling.com/Westwood/

Vince Howlett, Victoria, B.C., Canada

I always thought the Rickmans were nicer looking bikes than the Seeleys, but there's no doubt the Seeleys were more successful. The nickel plated Rickman frames looked good too.

Thanks for that - fascinating pics. Is there a purpose built circuit in that part of the world at present?

The Westwood track in Coquitlam, B.C., just outside of Vancouver closed in 1990. There is another track now, River's Edge, at Mission, B.C., about half an hour east of the old track.

Vince H.

Blimey, not looking good.

Can´t comment on Saddler Russell, but you may recall that brilliant motorcrosser of the 60´s, Joel Robert. Well Joel, in order to get to meetings (when he was starting out) around Belgium and sometimes further afield, would strip his bike down, check it in as hand luggage, and take a train to wherever he was racing. He would then reassemble the bike, race, and then reverse the procedure to get home. Now that´s what you call dedication. No wonder he won 6 world titles.

Yeah, absolutely, sometimes you just have to make things happen. On reflection, I think Saddler had an piece written about him in one of the comics. Anyone ?

If I force my addled memory banks into operation, I seem to recall that Mr Seeley boosted his margins at this time by doing the rebuilds on Mr Ecclestone's Cosworth DFVs. Amongst the rebuilders was one, Fred Cooper, a bit of a motorcycle Sprinting legend, and we used to see him regularly on the Champion Plug's engine dyno at Hatton Cross. There was (obviously) some gentle rivalry with the Nicholson-McLaren boys as to who showed the best outputs on our dyno....let's say that Fred wasn't often second!

Hi Russell,
Your right about Laurie Sadler.There was an article in MCN a few decades ago.The bike was a bit different also I recall.I think it was a SAAB 3 pot stroker engined device.It seems he never followed the conventional route with anything.
ATB, HW

Hi Herr, thanks for confirming that. Yeah, bit of a character, I wonder what happened to him?

Hi
Now you mention a Saab engined bike, I seem to recall that South African Ray Flack ran a Saab kneeler which i beleive was derived from the original 350 Norton kneeler he built which was mentioned in a previous post.

cheers
peter

Perhaps Saddler bought it from Ray? On reflection that seems a bit too straightforward for Mr Saddler. You have to admire the guys sheer determination to go racing though. And I hope he sometimes got a lift to the station. Are you out there to tell us Laurie ?

Laurie Sadler came from South East London, around the Catford area as far as I remember. A friend of mine lived quite near him and got to know him through their mutual interest in racing.

His original bike was an AJS of some description, based on one of the pushrod road bikes, not a 7R. The story is that he used to take this to a local station, presumably Catford as it is on the right line, put the bike in the guards van, unload it at Eynesford station and push it on a handcart back to the A20 and up the hill to Brands. Those of you who know the area will appreciate that this is several miles and not to be undertaken lightly.

As far as I know the SAAB evolved from the original bike. Basically the SAAB engine was squeezed into place where the AJS motor had previously been. He had quite a bad crash in this bike at Paddock bend. The story that I heard was that the SAAB retained the original cast iron manifold and part of the exhaust from the car which grounded on the right hand bend. The rider was thown off and slid down the grass at the side of the track, feet first on his front. He was wearing an open face helmet with a wrap around visor and, as the ground was very soft and muddy, it acted like scoop and filled with mud and earth and caused temporary suffocation. I believe that this caused him problems for some time although he eventually recovered.

I was with my friend who knew him at Brands about 15 years ago and we bumped into him. He still had plans for going racing again but I don't think that anything came of them.

Andrew

Andrew, thanks very much for that. It would be wonderful if he joined us on here. I wonder if your friend has any contact details, and if so, would be prepared to let Laurie know he is a source of some fascination on here.

Ok not international but British club from the early 60's

Who, What, Where?








Pete

Blimey - Norton forks, angle of the exhaust pipe = probably early Manx. Mk2 Zephyr means later than 56. Not at all sure where, could be the Palace?

After checking out a Zephyr/Zodiac web site, I'm now not sure if that's what it is, which is a bit worrying.

Consul 375 maybe?




Pete