looks like a young surtees?

No its not Surtees, yes it did have Norton front forks and Manx Engine of sorts, its a photo my family have kept and it may be late 50' s, as i am the child on the right .

Not Crystal Palace as far as i know .



Pete

I wonder where then. It looks kinda familiar but there's a sort of void beyond that fence, so ......I dunno. Do you know who the rider is?
If so I think your'e going to have to tell us.

Ok, another who, where, what and possibly why - they were there for an interesting testing session.

Oulton Park, Bob Mcintyre sorry if not right spelling, but I am not as old as you lot!!

Bob McIntyre is right, but do you know who the other guy is? He was a top rider also, TT winner and Ex Works Suzuki and Bianchi rider.
I like the comment about not being as old as "you lot" - I am only 21 years old

I do as its a member of my family . i believe it Brands Hatch as that is the only track i was taken as a child with grandad.
The rider is John Oliver Sweet the bike was a special called a JVS, the engine was a modified Manx Norton but with a very high compression ratio. It was a sod to bump start as such and had been known to take a second bump before it would start. This also caused problems as it sometimes caught as the rider dismounted first time and the rider would be dragged along .

It raced primarily at Silverstone and Brands.

My uncle John also rode a 350 AJS along with a 500 manx Norton proir to this machine. he then went on to race a BSA Watsonian unit later in the 60's he had IMP engine installed racing against Max Deuble? spelling, Florian Camathias,Fritz Schiedeger, Bill Boddice etc.
He also raced on the Island on the solo's and chair units .



Pete

Hi, nice photograph. The other guy is Alistair King, Bob's stable mate and no mean racer himself. As to why...it was Bob's regular test track, presumably because it was the only decent circuit with striking distance of Glasgow. I think he was a bit of a specialist there. One year at the mototcycle show they had a Manx set up in front of an film taken on board Bob's bike at Oulton Park. As about a twelve year old I sat on the Manx -which I think actually was Minter's - and for a while there, I was a road racer.

Hi thanks for that, can't say I recall him - even before my time! Did you not get the bug yourself and have a race?

No because i did get a ride round the paddock ring road at Brands once in the sidecar chair and it frightened the crap out of an 8 yo .

I turned my attention at 16 to cars but i was a real expert of bike racing and used to sit in the stand and could indentify all the top riders from helmets alone coming into Clearways . My heroes being, Derek Minter,Dan Shorey, Bill Ivy, Jim Redman, Bob McIntyre, Mike Hailwood, Dickie Dale, and my favorite Dave Chadwick.



Pete

Me too, Minter was my favourite. I was also a fan of local blokes, Pickrell and Croxford. I think Dave Chadwick had been killed on the continent somewhere? before I was into racing big style.

Alastair King on a works Suzuki ? That must have been very much a one-off: was it on one of the 1961 250 twins, as ridden by Paddy Driver ? I recall Peter Pawson saying when he rode one of the first Yamahas at the TT that year, that they never expected to get much further than Quarter Bridge before they nipped up !

Alistair King is correct, and yes Alistair rode the Suzuki at the 61 TT as a one off. It was a 250cc twin (RV61 I think) at the same time as Paddy Driver. Here is a shot of Alistair on the Suzuki:


In 61 Alistair was also riding a 350cc Bianchi twin. Both bikes were notoriously unreliable, with retirements on the first lap of the race. Here is Alistair on the Bianchi:


The Bianchi's were always falling apart for Bob McIntyre and Alistair. When they stayed together they were fast, with Alistair finishing second at the Ulster GP, and Bob second in the Dutch TT at Assen after a classic race with Gary Hocking on the MV. Even the Bianchi mechanics didn't have much confidence that their bikes would last race distances, so at the TT they took 3 machines for Bob to ride (or break depending on how you look at it) and 2 for Alistair! During TT practice there was a legendary incident between Bob Mac and the Bianchi mechaincs involving some of their wine and Bob's van. Certainly the best story I have ever heard from the 50's/60's period of racing.

You can't leave us in suspenders! What happened?

has anyone come across pictures of Mike Hailwood aboard a 7R?

Right, this is going to be a long reply. This anacdote was given to me by Archie Plenderleith who was at the TT in 1961 with Bob Mac, Alistair King and the rest of the Joe Potts team. Archie was a fellow Scot who worked closely with Joe Potts and even got the British Championship winning Potts 250cc Manx Norton after Bob McIntyre. The anacdote is reproduced as Archie gave it to me and it is well written and all the phontic wrinting is to his credit. One guy mentioned in the story is Pim Fleming, who worked at Joe Potts' and was Bob's mechanic in charge of engines. He was a real character, but very talented - even Stan Hailwood tried to poach him from the Potts team to work on Mike Hailwood's engines. Here is a grainy picture of Pim, having a joke with Margaret King (Alistair's wife), by both taking pictures of each other:


Pim is also in the background of this shot on sat Bob Mac's Potts Manx. He is smiling as Bob had just won the Mallory race of the year and was collecting a £500 cheque in 1959!


Anyway after the introductions, here is Archie's story of a Practice week incident between Bob Mac and the Bianchi team:

There was another misunderstanding involving Bob Mac and the Italian Bianchi mechanics one morning during TT practice. Bob Mac had got himself stranded out on the circuit one evening during practice when the Bianchi stopped. His Italian mechanic went to rescue him in Bob Mac’s van. They arrived back at the Bianchi garage quite late and proceeded to investigate the Bianchi and ready another for the next morning practice. By the time they were finished all the petrol stations were shut and Bob Mac’s van was extremely low on petrol. Bob Mac asked the Italian mechanic if there was any petrol and he pointed to some jerrycans. Bob Mac threw one in the back of his van and set off for his digs on the Loch Promenade. Next morning Bob Mac filled up the van from the jerrycan and set off for the Grandstand with Pim Fleming. I left for the Grandstand some time after them (our digs were only 50 yards apart) and I found their van outside the Villa Marina with all the doors wide open and the engine cowling lying in the roadway along with a toolbox. Pim saw me coming and waved me down. “Could you give us a tow, the van stopped halfway up the hill and now it wont start” – he said! Bob Mac was in about the engine! “Should go” he said, “its got got a spark and its got petrol”. We collected all the tools and gave it a tow but it would not run properly, it was spluttering, misfiring and would not rev up and whenever the clutch was engaged it stopped. We towed it again – and again – and again!! No joy! We towed it back to his digs and left Pim to sort out the problem. I gave Bob Mac a lift to the Grandstand where the Bianchi Boss man was waiting!! He didn’t look too pleased.

Chapter 1

Boss Man (annoyed) – “Ahh ha! Meester bob, where you been, we here at 5 o’clock waiting you, but now you come at 6.15 and the Bianchi she is back in the garage so you no go out! What is the matter, you like a big sore head, you been to a party huh?

Bob Mac (now very deliberate) – “I DON’T HAVE A SORE HEAD and I HAVE NOT BEEN TO ANY PARTY but I wish I had! I DID NOT MEAN TO BE LATE, my van stopped on the way here and there is no need for argument!”

It was obvious that he was not in a good mood!

Boss Man (very sarcastic) – “Ooohhh, I be sorry to hear that, very sorry, then the van must have been to the party huh?”

Bob Mac (getting madder by the minute) – “THERE HASN’T BEEN ANY BLOUDY PARTY but there soon will be to your acute embarrassment”

Boss Man and the Italian Mechanic confab in Italian!

Boss Man – “I be really sorry for you Meester Bob, very sorry, true, Ruffo here (Italian Mechanic) vill soon feex your van.”

Bob Mac (becoming suspicious) – “WHY HIM? What does he know about my van?”

Boss Man (more friendly) – “Ruffo, good man to feex your van, he knows moteyrs. And, he wants his VINO back. You took his VINO last night, see!”

The penny drops all round! The jerrycan contained VINO. Van problem solved.

Boss Man – “Beeg mistake, very beeg mistake Meester Bob, very sorry, very sorry, verry sorry your van does not like the VINO. But funny ha ha, verrry funy, ha ha ha, yes?”

Bob Mac (still mad, does not think funny) – “If you lot went on fire I would dial 998. Silly buggers! Come on, lets go back to Pim”

Chapter 2

I drove Bob Mac back to his van where we met up with a very irate Pim. When Pim was “up tight” he spoke very loudy in the true Scots Vernacular and that morning was no exception.

Bob Mac – “I know what is wrong with the van!”

Pim – “Ye dinny need tae tell mi, ah ken whits wrang wi it, its foo o bloody water an sose that @=&+%*£+$ jerrycan ye goat frae thae Eyetye mikaniks! Nae wunder yer beeanchy disny go, its gie likely foo o water an aw!”

A translation of Pims reaction – “You don’t need to tell me, I know what is wrong with it, its full of water and so is the jerrycan you got from these stupid Italian mechanics. No wonder your Bianchi does not go, very likely it is full of water too!”

Alistair King's IOMTT results at:

http://www.iomtt.com/TT-Database/Events/Ra...ALL&ride_id=948

Very good Joe!! enjoyed that and your pics, even though slightly before my era, only 21!! bleeding makes me feel old... my 3 kids are older than you by a long way!!! :\

1959 was a great year for Alistair, especially at the TT on the Joe Potts machines. Winning the F1 350cc TT, 2nd in the Senior TT (behind Surtees on the MV) and 3rd in the Junior TT (behind Surtees and John Hartle, both on MV's) - amazing record.

Alistair won the MotorCycling cup (for top dealer/entrant) for Joe Potts in 1959. Here is a shot of the poster:


Here is a shot of Joe Potts with the MotorCycling cup when he won it in 1955 due to Bob McIntyre amazing 2nd place in the Junior TT:



Here are a few shots of Alistair from the 59 TT. After the rain drenched Senior:


And also on a Potts 7R winning the 350cc F1 TT:

Thanks for that, great anecdote, well recounted. You're obviously an authority on Bob Mac and those around him. Are you linked in some way to any of them?

Not personally, but there have been loads printed all over the place. Should be some in Mick Walker's 7R book. If you're after visual confirmation that he rode one, there are a couple of small images on the other thread of him during a classic Brands race in 1963.

A couple of pictures of Bob, you may have seen them before.

He was a hard rider on any bike and he won consistently throughout his career, he should have been world champion on the Gilera and would have been on the Honda if he hadn't had his tragic accident.

A brillant rider, mechanic and a kind and friendly man.

Hi there, can we have the story behind the signature?

Yes Russell.
The picture was taken in June, I think, 1962 and I was hoping to get it signed by Bob at his next Mallory meeting, The September Race of the Year.
At this meeting I was showing it to Alastair King who offered to sign it.

Regards

John

thanks Russell - looks like a bike I know - threaded coolinf fin etc - does anyone know of a frame/engine number archive?

Hi there, are you saying you think you know of a 7R that may be ex Hailwood ? Do you happen to have a photo, or know where I can see one? It seems that the factory kept no records. George Beale has some records of his own and may be able to help if you ask him nicely.

No I am not linked to Bob Mac, Alistair King, Joe Potts or any of the other 'Bellshill Beehive'. I have just taken it upon myslf to do much research into Joe Potts' racing teams (cars and bikes) and buisness history. People like Joe, Bob Mac and Alistair were very quiet and did not 'blow their own trumpet', like many other tuners of the time coming from south of the border. They did there job of winning with amazing success and were never concerned with fame. Joe and Bob and the rest were not sentimental, so very few records from the team survive. This is one of the reasons why I have spent time documenting the history of the team. I really have to thank Joe's family, as well as former riders like Jimmy Buchan (double Manx GP winner on Potts Manx's) and former employees at Bellshill for giving me archives and helping me find out more about the team. It has been a great exprience to meet so many interesting people along the way.

Here are a few shots that Jimmy Buchan sent me. Jimmy was a fine rider and was predicted to be the next Geoff Duke after his double Manx GP victory in 1956. After this victory, Bob McIntyre famously said "you can't beat a double Scotch", reffering to a Scottish rider on a Scottish bike. Jimmy could have been one of the countries top riders, but instead chose to follow a successful carrer journalism.

Jimmy Buchan on a Potts Manx (note what a stylish rider) :


Jimmy after winning the the double Manx GP in 1956:


Here is a good shot of Jimmy with Bob Mac who was acting as pit support for the Manx GP:

I believe Hailwood was leading the 1961 Junior TT on a 7R until he retired (broken crankpin?) and he also rode a Tom Kirby 7R (at Brands?) at some point in the mid-sixties.

Well done you. You write well, so is there a book in the offing? I know almost nothing about Jimmy Buchan, did he retire after the Manx? Is he still with us? And is he related to George, Manx winner in the sixties?

Thank you very much Russell . Well I have written a lot on the team, but at the moment there are no plans for a book, as I better try and get my PhD sorted first ;). Jimmy Buchan did not retire after the Manx in 56, but rode on some Manx Nortons from Dennis Parkinson for a few years. He was a great rider and rode for Joe Potts in 1955 and 1956. Jimmy is not related to Geordie (George) Buchan, who was another great rider. Jimmy is still very much with us and was guest of honour at the Bob McIntyre meeting at Knockhill last year. The SCRMC's Bob Mac meeting is coming up in a few weeks time, 14th and 15th of June. An amazing event related to Scottish bike racing is happening on the 5th and 6th of July at Beveridge Park, Kirkaldy. The KDMC (Kirkaldy and district club) is organising an event to celebrate 60 years of Scottish motorcycle racing. If you have never been to Beveridge (The Park) Park, I advise you to go. It is an awe inspiring place and it is beyond belief how they raced there from 1948 to 1988. If you see the track (perimeter road of the park), you will be amazed that Manx Nortons, F3 racing cars and even Yam TZ750s could race there. It is a track that everyone should see once - you will not be disappointed.

Here is a great period shot from Beveridge Park. Bob Mac, Jimmy Bucan and Alistair King can be seen in front of a Joe Potts Manx. Note it is a really cold day with Bob weraing a big scalf, and also his gloves are warming on the exhaust port of the Manx! Would modern Moto GP riders be doing this - a very different world!

On his own 7R, Brands '63. Could even be his '61 Junior bike, which I think broke a gudgeon pin when he was leading by miles, allowing Lutonboy to claim the win.

GD66 mentioned Peter Pawson from NZ, he was a member of the Cont Circus for a while, wonder if he is still around

John, thanks for sharing that - It must be an important possession.

Hi Bernard, Peter Pawson is very much still around, and lives in Tauranga, New Zealand. He is still involved in both roadracing and vintage motocross, rides extensively on the road with his wife and friends, and is a much-loved legendary figure in that part of the world. I went and spent an afternoon chatting with him in 2003, as I had an upcoming stage interview with Jim Redman coming up and was chasing some inside info. When I got there, Peter had his TT replicas and scrapbook at the ready, and we spent a very pleasant afternoon bench racing. Some of the tales of those times on the continental circus are truly amazing, with the complexities of getting in and out of Eastern Europe, the high attrition rate etc. Peter rode in Europe for 3 seasons, 1959-61, and had great success as a privateer without attracting a factory ride, apart from Yamaha's toe-in-the-water exercise at the 1961 TT.
He is still stylish and quick, and though he's ticking on a little these days, when you look in his eyes, you can still see a naughty little kid....

thank you for your support in this thread - I will try to find a photograph of the bike - it certainly looks similar - but I guess that finding frame/ engine numbers is the only conclusive route

Thanks GD its good to know that. Try to keep up with the later lives of my heroes when I was young. Some sadly no longer with us. Saw a email address last year for Rudi Thalhammer of Norton Domiracer fame so I sent him good wishes and he sent me one of his calendars with pictures of the old days. So glad to see Peter is on good form.

Hi there, do you happen to have the engine/ frame number?

I will need to visit bike to get them - do you know what the hailwood 7R numbers are?

Unfortunately, no. I've attempted to trace my own bike for donkey's years, so would very much like to know the numbers.

A better shot from May '63. As can be seen, it had an Oldani front brake and very probably a six speed gearbox. One of his late 7R's had coil ignition and I strongly suspect it was this one. He certainly owned and raced 7R's before this one but I think this was his last, probably a 61 model. Check out the flattened megaphone mod. How far did the guy lean it over! He later fell off in this race when leading, after cranking it over too far when blasting it out of Clearways.

Lordy, but I love this thread. Bob Mac was one of my all time hero´s as a young lad. I can still remember the feeling of total shock and enormous grief when I heard of his fatal accident. A wonderful man and what a great rider. What a traversty of justice he was never crowned as world champion.
Another great from that period was Paddy Driver. Very, very underrated in my opinion. Could we have a few pic on here to celebrate his career?

My very small contribution to this thread!

Henry

http://ibistro.dos.state.fl.us/uhtbin/cgis...rcycle%20racing

Great pic Russell, is it one of yours ? Boys at play !! BTW, there's a page of good Hailwood pix at bike70.com that's worth a trawl....

A book I bought as a youngster called, "The art of motorcycle racing", by Mike hailwood and Murry Squawker has a pic of Mike on that bike, pulling his tongue at the photographer. Still got the book right here on my bookshelf in my office. It was my bible as a young fellow.

Thanks GD thats a great site bike70 .com,enjoyed the piece about Nanou Insermini.

Why didn't I discover this thread a long time ago? I grew up in England as an avid motorcyclist/road race fan and moved to Rhodesia in 1957 where I saw some great racing at Belvedere and Marlborough and became an avid supporter of Gary Hocking and Jim Redman the latter of whom I regularly have e-mail exchanges and telephone calls with.

In 1965 I moved to Kenya and, although it did not compare with what was happening to the South, I thoroughly enjoyed the motorcycle scene there.

I have been able to find a wealth of information on the web on racing in Rhodesia and South Africa but absolutely nothing on Kenya and am wondering if there might be anyone reading this thread who might have been there during that time or know where I can find anything on it.

Hi there, welcome to the site - hope you're inundated with information from Kenyan race fans!

Thanks mate. If someone can explain how to attach photos I will show some that probably have never been seen before.

Hi Russ Sounds like a new double act to me -----' Phil & Fu ' rolls off the tongue does'nt it -An up (or down) market Cannon & Ball do you want to be our agent ?