Craven A International 1960


The car on the outside of the front row is Stan Jones in his 2.2 litre duck-egg blue T51 Cooper. Somebody ran into him at the first corner and he had to retire from the race.



Stan Patterson

Somebody they had never seen colour pics of the Stillwell Brabhams. This is the original 2.7litre car taken in 1963




Stan Patterson

Thanks for the correction Stan, I thought at second glance that it looked a bit darker than white with light blue stripe. Thanks for the photo of Stillwell's Brabham too, as it was I that hadn't seen the colour versions.

It could possibly be Patterson's car visible behind Miller's yellow car then.

No problems David.....a pleasure

Yes that is Patto you can see behind Aussie Miller...it should be noted Patto had two T51's....a single wishbone 2 litre car (later 2.4) he used in 1959/1960 and a double wishbone 2.5 that he used to win the 1961 Gold Star.

This is the earlier car and it was in this race that he put on the type of performance I have alluded to elsewhere ......he outpaced Stillwell's 2.2, Aussie Miller blew his engine up dicing with Stillwell and ahead of all this Patto drove like a man possessed in his pursuit of JB...

I once saw a film of this race, many years ago, on the ABC.

Stan

His first T51 was chassis F2/15/59 which was badly damaged at Lakeside on 16 July 1961. He then acquired F2/5/57 from the works, which was most probably a 59/60 model wearing an older chassis plate.

Here is 3 minutes of footage of that race:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9Oi8hd1WF8

Thanks David,

I stand corrected ..or am i confused?.

.there is a mystery here.

Ahha..this film is a compilation


In the starting line pic, posted Bib is clearly in his red and yellow 2.2.....it was not till after this event that Bib bought the 2.5 all-over red..indeed i saw him in that car late that year at Phillip Island.

Later in the clip we see Bibi in the all-over red 2.5, plus we see Arnold Glass in the Gilby Engineering Cooper Maserati, a car that did not appear here till very late 1960 or early 1961 while early in the clip we see arnold in the 250F.

My deduction is first part of the clip October 1960, while latter half is Easter 1961,and, on both occasions Patto turned in Lion-like performances..


These are very deep waters Watson

Stan

Not from the '50s to '70s... but I felt like posting it anyway:

oK CHAPS,

Who, why when and where?

[img=http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/6088/s19631yx1.jpg]

[img=http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/8554/s19631ho4.jpg]

I think you mean...



And it's the back straight at Sandown, 1963 or 1964, Davo in the Cooper... that's all I have on it...

yes Ray,

Sandown International 1963, Davo apparently surprised by Masten Gregory in the 2.7 Lola.....MG made a slow start, due to our ame,ricans friends tell us....

A lot of overtaking took place up that back straight..i was never sure whether the exit speed from Peters Corner had an affect on terminal speeds.......up ahead lay a white and powder blue lowline T53 and a Navy Blue T55


Stan

Maybe should be captioned.."move over kid"


[img=http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/5671/pawb7.jpg]


Stan

[img=http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/1150/paic8.th.jpg]

Stan, with your ImageShack photos, you have to make sure you copy and paste the whole address that it gives you, or else it won't work.

Thanks David,

I hope this is better

[img=http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5825/paie8.jpg]

Stan

[img=http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5825/paie8.jpg]

It should start with:

[url

and end with:

/url]

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5825/paie8.jpg

Stan, to get it right... once you've uploaded the pic to Imageshack:

1. Go only to the line marked 'Hotlink for forums (1)' which is the first option below the displayed thumbnail of your picture.

2. Do not try to select from that line, just left click on it once. This actually highlights the whole line for you, even the part you can't see.

3. Right click on the highlighted line

4. Left click on 'copy'

5. Copy to the body of your post.

Thanks guys

Stan

I just came across an old yellowed paperback in a 2NDND hAND bOOKSHOP


My Championship Year

By Mike Hawthorn

50 cents

For you Stan, The Victoria Trophy race 1963 Calder:

For kaydee ,Derek Jolley Lotus 15 Warwick Farm Jan 1961

And Norm driving it a year later:

OH WOW

Briliant

Calder rnust be back to front

Derek's pic is orgasmic...London auctiion houses note..there is five thousand pounds extra in that pic..but we know money is not the motivator..we know u just love our aussie historic cars

Why is that fat road car included?

MOREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Poor Old Stan

Lovely pics John

Bib and Davo .et al

Just memories without your input

Stan

His Grace




Thanks Ray

Stan

Sorry Ray - have been away and also missed your post!
Unfortunately I cannot help with identity.

I think that the gentleman walking away from the Davidson Aston is Alan Ashton who was Lex's long time mechanic

All I can say, Kevin, is that you were missed!

Though I believe someone did identify Alan Ashton previously...

Now for a few more of yours?

These photos were taken on the starting grid at Mallala and I'm fairly sure that it was at the 1961 AGP meeting.
I don't think its the start of the GP as I think David McKay #14 was on the second row - so it must have been the start of one of the heats?
Gerry Brown (Stillwell's mechanic) is at the rear of Bib's car #6 with self leaning on the tail.

Before David McKinney chews you out about it, Kevin...

I think you'll find this is the meeting that opened Mallala, two months before the AGP, or thereabouts. Stillwell is in a different car

Kaydee

Sir Bib drove his T53 Lowline at at the 1961 AGP.

This must be the 1960 Gold star race..but i must confess i canrt gell the other two T51's


Stan

Ray,
That makes sense - I couldn't find a program for the AGP meet yet still had the program for the previous meeting!!!

I guess that's what happens when you get old and try to rely too much on what you think you can remember!

No 2 must be Bryan Thomson...before he went fereal ..but no 4 suggests DAVO..or is it John Youl in his 2.2?

Stan

Stan,

No, I think Ray is right - it must be the August '61 Mallala meeting.
The program describes this as the "Premier Meeting" with #14 as David McKay and #2 as Stan Jones

No Kaydee

The Jones Cooper was duck egg blue all through 1961

and also in 1961 Sir Bib was driving a lowline

tbis is 1960...

my prob is i never remeber John Youl in a Herbie Johnson

stan

The Mallala circuit opened in August 1961, about seven weeks before the Grand Prix... this is definitely 1961.

I am still confused Ray


By that time, August 1961, Sir Bib was T53 lowline...and when did Davo ever drive a T51 at Malalla except in the 1961 AGP?.....and where is Patto?

It is weird


Stan

OK

It is David McKay doing the Bette Davis,,poor Bryan Thomson in No 2 and Bib, as cool as one would expect, in No 6

I love those T51's

Case solved.

Stan

According to the AGP book, Stan, the Coopers that ran at the opening meeting were Stillwell, McKay and Jones. No mention of Thomson (did he even have that car then?), and Patterson and Mildren are mentioned as non-appearances.

Just as an exercise of trying to work out 'why?' Stan, did Jones maybe damage the nose of his car at Caversham the previous week and have to borrow one of someone else?

The AGP book also mentions Stillwell having given the Lowline its first run at Warwick Farm in September.

Stan I still think Ray is correct - it can only be 1961 - and the opening meeting in August
The "grid" pictures were definitely taken at Mallala and the circuit was not even open in 1960.
Also, AMS says that for the AGP meeting in October both of Stillwells Coopers were painted green and in the "grid" photos Stillwells car is red.
I'm still also fairly certain that #2 is Stan Jones. I think some of the confusion is your reference to "Duck egg Blue" - I take that as being a light blue - whereas Stan's car was a much darker blue - see picture below (which I took on the morning prior to the 1961 AGP).

The colour in the two previous "grid" pictures is not all that good but it is very close to the darker blue of the picture below.

Kaydee , Ray

I have been to my club and had a couple of refreshing drinks, but bear with me,..please

The problem is, Bib drove a lowline through most of 1961...certainly by August 1961.

The other issue is, if Stan Jones started in 1961, he normally, barring mechanical issues, won..eg Warwick Farm, Ballararat and only Patto could run with him as at Bathurst , Bib was still a year or so away from creating a new benchmark.

The pic must be early 1961....pre lowline....and No 2 still troubles me...it looks too dark for the Jones Cooper

Is that the legendary Otto Stone on the right of your priceless pic?

Kaydee...have you pursued your obligation to have these pics published yet?

Stan

There are times that you are informative, Stan... and there are times when you are purely argumentative... this is one of the latter.

Like I mentioned, the AGP book specifically states that Bib was at Mallala's opening meeting in August in his older car. And that he made his debut in the Lowline at Warwick Farm in September, winning that race.

I have no views on the colour of Jones' car, but like I suggested, it might bear looking into whether or not he damaged it at Caversham the week before.

I think that might well be Otto Stone, by the way. And while I looked and looked to see if it was David McKay, I'm fairly sure it's not. No moustache and just a little too much grey in the hair for '61 when he was still in his mid-30s. But the stance is very McKay!

Stan,
One other point is that the blonde haired mechanic leaning across the bonnet of #2 in the second of the two “grid” pictures looks very much like John Sawyer who was Stan’s chief mechanic at the time.

Yes, it is Otto Stone (and David McKay). Stan was using an ex-McLaren Climax engine in this car and the inlet ports had been enlarged until the inlet port walls were paper thin and one of them had sprung a leak on the previous day and was causing a misfire. I’d offered to try and put a fiibreglass and epoxy patch over the area at the time but Otto declined. However, they decided overnight that it was worth a chance and got me out of bed early on the Sunday morning to attempt a repair – hence the carburetors being removed.

Unfortunately the repair was not successful as there was insufficient time for the patch to cure before practice and it dislodged within a few minutes of starting up the engine and hence Stan did not run in the GP.

Still have heaps of slides to scan and identify yet before thinking of publishing!!!

kaydee,

Make sure you put them up on here so we can help you identify them all...

Boring job I know but somebody has to do it.!!!..

Stan

These photos were taken in the pits at the Sandown International meeting in '63 I think?


Tony Maggs - Lola


Tony Maggs - Lola and Jim Palmer (NZ) - Cooper

Not to mention Fearless John's car in there too...

1963 it was, Kevin.

hello australia

are there probebly any photos from BARRY COLLERSON availible befor he went for 66-67 to europe to do two full years racing F3 , together with KURT KELLER .
barry is coming to visit me here in germany this august , may i can surprise him with a few fotos
if possible .
any photo from kurt would be nice as well .

regards from germany , roger