Macca, my Shell Ferrari P4 has 1/38 underneath.

Here is a pic of a slotcar 1/64th (Tomy-AFX) out of box :



Coming soon : Ford MK2 1966 !!! Who needs slot 1/32nd ???

The Tomy-AFX patterns are crafted by my good friend Lloyd Asbury of the former Lancer company. The problem I see with HO is as I previously pointed out, lack of detail (the windows on the 2D are black because the motor is inside the cockpit), basic decoration, and on most others not patterned by the genius that Lloyd is, a certain lumpiness due to the obligation of covering the mechanical elements. I have quite a few Wiking models, as well as Schuco micros, Aurora AF/X, Tyco and other "HO" models, and frabkly, they are cute but are not true models and are rather crude.
However if you like them, eh, who am I to argue.
Just for comparison between one of the best HO models made and its 1/32 scale counterpart:



This is the Racemasters Cobra Daytona, produced by my good friend Jim Russell and his son Steve.

[img]http://www.electricdreams.com/Shop/images/catm4852.bmp[/img]

This is the Revellogram 1/32 scale version.

I let you be the judge.

Thanks for answer and your fair-play ! (you could compare the old AFX 917 with the Fly model :\ )

About the prices of these Cobras ?

The 1/32 scale Cobra can be had from $28.00 to $42.00 depending on where you shop. The HO version is priced from $20.99 to $28.95.

I dropped by this morning by Lloyd's shop and took pictures of the master for the new Tomy-AFX Ford MK2. Lloyd said that as on the Chaparral 2D, the pattern was made to fit over the chassis and not a single line is correct. The rear fenders were also widened so as to fit the wide wheels on the chassis.
Even with those necessary modifications, the body looks pretty nice but cannot compare with the superb job done by both FLY and Scalextric in the 1/32 scale, or the best MK2 model ever made, the actual clear plastic slot car body produced by Lancer in 1966 in both 1/24 and 1/32 scale, also modeled by the very same Lloyd Asbury. I will post the pictures tonight when I return from my slaving occupations.

Look, I DO like HO cars, but get real, neither they or the existing 1/43 scale die-casts cannot compare with the superb job done on the 1/32 scale slot cars in the past few years. And the price is right!

Allright but there are some faults in 1/32 slot too :
- The FLY Porsche 917 LH with a strange front
- The Ferrari 512M (don't remember the maker...)
- The FLY Chevron B23 as big as a 917

And if you look under the body:
- a skateboard one piece plastic chassis.
- if you got 50% of the wheels which are perfectly round , you're lucky.
- smooth axles.
- a 10 cents "duracell rabbit motor" , you can't change the brushes.
- some motors needs 12 volts , others needs 15 or more ,so you need an adjustable power unit.

So I'm OK , since the 90's Ninco and the others had improved the realism of the 1/32 scale but I find their products expensive when you look under the hood.
And about fidelity , I prefer the 1/43 static from Minichamp , Provence or marshmodels .

And yes ! a HO slotcar looks like a "cartoon car" but they are so fast , reliable and cheap ! And I forgot the driving pleasure of these little bombs... Next time !

Hi Francois,
No one denies that some of the 1/32 scale models have faults too. The 1960's to 1990's Scalextric for example, are nothing but lumpy and shapeless toddler toys to me, but this has drastically changed since manufacturing moved to China. . The others had to adapt and the models are better than ever, especially the Slot.It models that can take on ANY 1/43 scale hand-built expensive models. HO are good and fun, no one denies that either. However please compare the net aesthetic result as shown on the posting regarding the Cobra Daytona.

As far as what is underneath, I can agree with you that the cheap plastic chassis are rather poor, but what is so different with the HO cars?
As far as FLY wheels out of round, it is a well-known fact and one that has its roots in their engineering and lack of understanding of the basic principles of compressing gases VS the cracking or deforming of cheapo plastic hubs, not in their looks. Is not it what we are talking about here, looks? :yawn:
As far as the on-track speed and behavior of HO cars VS 1/32 scale cars, I am sorry to disagree. The HO cars are over-magnetized and stupidly-fast for their size, resulting in crashes making the car fly 3 miles from the track when a shade too much throttle is applied. If the magnets are removed, the cars are uncontrollable. One notable exception to that are the old 1960's Aurora T-Jet cars (the ones that REALLY look like lumps but are "cute"), and the Riggen cars with the brass chassis, and the look of those is to say the least, pathetic (but oh so cute!).

Not the case for the modern 1/32 scale cars that in most cases can run fairly decently without their traction magnets.

After that, it is a matter of personal preference, but I would like to call things as they really are, reality VS perception. The larger the model, the more chances it will offer greater accuracy and precision. I hope that you do not mind. That still does not stop me from liking the HO cars, but let's apply reason against emotion...
Kind regards,

T54

Dear readers, I kindly appeal to your common sence , and stop discussing non 1:87 models here! There are many other threads where to do that , even a Scalextric 1:32 etc.

Admittedly , perhaps due to my lack of language knowledge , or me thinking otherwise ,I should have named the thread differently, because the real purpose of this thread was to to talk about 1:87 ( wich also has the correct name HO). But it is the scale numbers that are defining my thoughts. Even though none of you "discussers" has tried to help out here , I see it might be the title of the thread that perhaps is misleading , but if any of you can find another name , that will omit misunderstandings , I will be much obliged.

Racing models does not to me mean slotracing , but to some of you it does , and HO means 1:87 to me , but not to all. All accepted and respected! So please respect this thread !

Here are some of the other model threads besides the Scalextric :A load of new rubbish , A load of
old rubbish , Lemans (IXO models) collection , F1 models/diecast/kit , A question for model collectors , Line drawings , Are there any model building enthusiasts on the TNF , 1:43 hand build scale models , 1:43 hand build F1 model , F1 scale modelling anyone ? , The Best Models , F1 Car scale models , F1 Die Cast.

That's OK Bjorn, I am done with my rant. I will however post the pics of the new "HO" scale Racemasters Ford MK2 patterns tonight.

Ok Bjorn , sorry ! But I read HO racing in the title.... And some advertising for slot racing too :\

We'll follow this conversation on a new post (and I have a lot about driving 32 vs HO !!! )


the Nikko slotcars (corvette and F40) are very near the real HO 1/87th....

Picture courtesy Ron Bernstein RiggenHO

Hi guys , I am relieved , not that you stop the comparing ,well yes, but more for the real spirit you show!. In my "real" search and research for transporters , I have been a lot through the TNF , and often has seen threads "losing" their purpose ,but luckily seldom seen contributors feeling p..... off! I am aware that I might have reduced the activity here , but if you look at my list of threads on models , It to me is a bit of a mess. I like a bit of order! And I will follow you on other threads, bacause its not lack of interest.

By the way , I have in the past few years been to some toy fairs in Germany and seen both Fallers and private clubs big landscapes with 1:87 both computer steared and with remote control. Incredible what they can do in that size, but no racing (slot) yet! Thanks for understanding!

Agree Bjorn . I self control and I don't post a beautiful pic with Parma whomp 1/32 !!!

Here are the promised pictures of the Tomy-AFX Ford MK2 pattern:



To figure out its size, her eis a casting of the car in HO scale on top of the roof:



And this is what the resin casting looks like:



Note that some lines have been modified so as to fit over the AFX chassis.

Thank you !

These little 1:87 jems are distributed by Malibu International Ltd. and sell
for about $2.00 at your neighorhood Walmart.
Don't let the size of the engine confuse things, I scratchbuilt it over thirty
years ago in HO n2 1/2 scale.

Hi Paul , fine picture . The models must be the Schuco Edition 1:87 , not so cheap in Europe ,about 3 Euros a peace. Their program is growing! Being a partly railway fan I liked your engine (locomotive). Looks great.

Bjorn, was your original question intended to refer to 1:87 scale racing cars, i.e. 1:87 slot cars or 1:87 static models of racing cars?

What is the difference between 1 and 3 ? And 2 does not exist!

Perhaps the name of the thread should have been : Racing world in 1:87

That could have covered everything , but my prime goals is 1:87 and racing!

I do not mind discussing this , but its in 1:87 !

For some patronizing reasons some people have decided to call everything under 1:50 for HO !

That is in no way fair or correct !

And I did of course mean everything smaller than 1:50 ! that be 1:64 , 1:72 , 1:76 etc.

I believe its clear now ,my intension is 1:87 racing models,be it formula,sport,GT,Prototype , touring etc.,and what belongs to the track and surroundings , rescue ,pits, office ,police , people ,transporters , private cars, supplyers, etc.

T54 , very interesting to view these "models".

Paul ,these models as you may know are easily to modify for track racing (not slot!).

Fausto ,beautiful models and modified "Breadvan".

Having given up building a decent railway track due to lack of space , I have now decided that I will on 4 meters along a wall build a diorama , primarly with pit and paddock scenery! There are some good Sportsracers and GTs for use of a LM line-up. At least I shall try ,perhaps I will rediscover building models !

At a collectors' fair on Saturday, I saw a set of 1/87 models of the 2007 F1 cars - not just a generic model painted in 11 colour schemes, but 11 different models with good detailing............but I can't remember the manufacturer...........

And if this thread encompasses all the various scales below 1/43, not just 1/87...........then here is my 1966 grid for That Film, lacking only the Shannon:




Paul M

Paul , my intension with the thread is 1:87 , and it has been discussed earlier , but as with all threads a bit of off topic never hurts , and your picture looks very nice. I myself have finally gotten within reach of a digital camera and shall return soon with pictures.

Regarding Le Mans Miniatures , if any of you are interested and has been to thir website , dont hesitae , some of the production lines are running low and will not be continued !

Paul , back to you , I consider myself well knowing this scale , but there is allways something , and I have yet to hear or see about these F1 cars you mention !

Here are those 2007 1/87 F1 cars on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com.my/viItem?ItemId=250123186181

but I don't know the manufacturer.......


In 1966 there was a set of 1/87 kits of the Ferrari 312, Brabham BT19, BRM P83 and 1.5L Honda given away with petrol in France; I have a set somewhere (mislaid in moving house!) that I bought at an autojumble.


Paul M

Paul,
I recall that those were made by Majorette and were called "Racing Champions". There were 12 different models, all using the same body but with different chrome stuff and colors.
They also produced 1/43 scale Lola T70's and Porsche 917's in a variety of colors schemes.

MrMacca , I am sure the length cannot be 1/87 scale , but still interesting.

Here are those 1966 plastic kits, with a 1/64 Matchbox to give scale. They really are excuisite little things, beautifully detailed - even the slots on the Ferrari's nose are there - with the instructions printed on the cellophane.

I have seen a photo on the web of the models assembled and painted, but can't find it. They are not the same as the Majorette cars.

The wheelbase of the Ferrari measures 33mm, so as the real car was 2400mm the scale is more like 1/72.


Paul M

Does any of you have contact with someone who can make transfers , waterbased or on
adhesive paper.???? Once I knew one who could do wonders on a MAC PC , but he is no more , neither the little printing house were he worked !

Here are those 1/87 2007 F1s - apparently they are given away free with tins of coffee in Japan - and a close-up of the Ferrari:



Paul M

Looking reasonable well , and I drink a lot of coffee!!!!!!!!!!!!!Thanks for showing!

If you Google : US-Models , you could be in for some surprises !

SU-Models is nearly ready with a Maserati 200S and a Ferrari 206SP model.

Most models that are called HO, or 1/87th scale, are actually substantially larger than that. Most seem to be about 1/64th. As 1/43rd scale models are much better detailed, and really not all that much larger, it has become the scale most people seem to collect.

A co-worker of mine got the Japanese coffee F1 car series. Literally all of them, meaning each team, two cars per team! What's cool is that it is this year's grid and he was kind enough to give me an extra My Earth Dream paint scheme Honda. There are no numbers on the cars. He bought a LOT of coffee.

These are 1:64 (not 1:87) made by Kyosho for various DyDo Demitasse Coffee promotions.

See: http://earth.endless.ne.jp/users/a_yacchi/dydo/dydoweb.html

I just managed to get hold of one of the extremely rare Ferrari P4 spyders from their 2003 campaign ....
(a Japanese pen-pal bid on it for me) :
http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w7464823

Then of course, there are also these (released yesterday, 19th June, and branded as Kyosho) :

http://www.kyosho.com/jpn/products/diecast...neup/index.html

Sorry, correction to post 82 :

Its Maserati 2000 Sport and Dino 206 Closed 1966

I would like to comment post 83 by dretceterini :

To keep it as simple as possible my point is that perhaps the most important scales for model cars come from model railways :

O = 1:43,5 and HO is 1:87 ! Very simple ! And to add 1:64 , it is just 1:64 !
A lot of manufactures , media and people have messed or are messing around with these numbers!

Those who do not respect this is way out in the swamp. There are very clear and logic as well as tehnological reasons why there where/are differences in the respective sizes of O or HO. No one with respect for anything should today market something other than what it is. Saying this I can accept that O is made to 1:43 instead of 1:43,5 !
To call a 1:64 model for HO is simply outrageous ! And I am not against this scale as well as 1:32 for that matter (or any).

"Most" HO do certainly NOT seem to be 1:64 ! I really depends on where you look and with what you look ! And saying 1:43 (and a half) is much better detailed stands up for heavy discussion if "you" want it! (nothing personal Stuart !) It certainly depends on the manufacturer , and anyone with a good sense knows that the bigger , the better detail MUST be!

I do however agree , that seen on a global view 1:43 is the most collected!

My point was that both in the past and today, there are a lot of miniatures being made that are called HO scale, and in fact are much larger than 1/87th.

I see some withdrawal in your refrasing ?
Fact is that that depending on what a "lot" is you are partly right ! In older days , the tendency was more to "smaller than 1:87 " and today in the US/CDN the opposite they seem to call all scales smaller than 1 :43,5 for HO scale wich remains wrong , false , not right , a lie , or whatever we shall call it.

PS I read somewhere that the Minichamps T61 was a bit bigger than other models of that type , perhaps they made in 1:43 ? He-he!

Hi Bjørn,

Wiking did a nice Porsche 904 in the sixties and Paul's Model Art did a 1995 Klaus Ludwig DTM Opel Calibra V6, under the Champico 'Team Rosberg Collection' range.

Quite right Carlos , nice 904 ! I am looking/searching for this/these models , found some on e-bay !
For some reason wich I have yet to solve I cannot get the right acces to e-bay , so : Is there anyone out there who would buy on e-bay for me ????????

Carlos, the Calibra is also beautifull but I am more to "before" 1970 models !

PS : Carlos I have not got into contact with Pipes yet!

PS2 : also try www.lion-models.de

Got the e-bay working , so now I can get my 904s !

Off topic , PICCOLINI , I have had a private mail ask if I knew about the Maserati 450 Coupe from 1957 and the T151s from 1962 Le Mans ? Does any of you know if PICCOLINI ever made them . Yhe list in an earlier mail does not say so ! Any ideas ?

Those 2007 cars look nice. Are the bodies plastic?

Is there anywhere these can be purchased outside of Japan and without buying the coffee

Sorry, Bjorn .... I know these P4's are 1:64, so I'll keep the reply as brief as I can.

The bodies of both the 'DyDo Coffee promo' 2003 P4 spyder and the 'official' Kyosho 2007 release P4 berlinettas are cast metal. The undertrays / interiors, wheels etc., are plastic. The tyres are rubber (and the latest ones have amazingly detailed tread patterns). Both come in 'semi-assemble' kit form - which takes only a couple of minutes, unless you decide to add some more detailing (painting seats, exhausts, etc.).

The 2003 'Dydo' P4 spyder is comparatively rare, though I suspect that because of the new Kyosho 2007 releases, there have been a spate of them on Yahoo Japan auctions recently:

http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w7464823

ダイドー Dydo フェラーリVol.2 Wチャンス当選品 330P4

http://page2.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/b78518263

ダイドーフェラーリ当選品　コレクションケース＋３３０Ｐ４

http://page11.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/n51279155

★ダイドーフェラーリＷチャンス当選品★330Ｐ4★

http://page7.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g52383122

希少　ダイドー☆フェラーリ ３３０Ｐ４ 　Ｗチャンス品(1/64)

http://page5.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/e67830676

ダイドーフェラーリ　コレクションケース＆３３０Ｐ４！　

http://page4.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/d73724430

即決有！ダイドーコレクションケース　330P4ミニカー付

http://page9.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k47092585

京商■１/６４▼ダイドー当選品▲オープンタイプ３３０Ｐ４

http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/103568235

ダイドーオリジナルコレクションケース　３３０Ｐ４　１９６７

http://page4.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/d73724430

即決有！ダイドーコレクションケース　330P4ミニカー付

I think I can say fairly confidently, that's the only place you're going to find them.

The new Kyosho 'official' P4 berlinettas are 'all over' Yahoo Japan auctions at the moment. No need to buy any coffee.
Opening bid prices are generally at or around ¥420, which is the retail price, going up to ¥1000 or so:

http://search.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/sear...cale=0jp&acc=jp

I've also seen a number offered on eBay, by a few 'entrepreneurial' Japanese sellers, with ridiculously inflated 'Buy-it-Now' prices as high as £18.00 ($36.00)

Try this search: http://search-desc.ebay.co.uk/Kyosho-1-64-...0P4QQsofocusZbs

Whether you buy on eBay or Yahoo Auctions, it's likely that they'll ship from Japan.
.... and whatever price you pay (within reason), they're still delightful little models.

In an attempt to appease Bjorn (and get this thread back on topic ) .....

.... For comparison, the Kyosho 1:64 Ferrari P4 berlinettas are 2½" (65mm) long,

.... whereas the Carbone87 P4 (complete with photo-etched windscreen wiper and steering wheel) is a mere 2" (50mm) long.

Once I've added some detailing to my Kyosho 1:64 P4 (and figured out how to use my camera's Macro settings, properly ) ....
.... I'll take a photo of the two side by side. In the meantime, please excuse this slightly out of focus image:

I am so respected , and you do do what you want anyway ! Do NOT get me wrong , but I have had threads "killed" before so I thougt I had to be persistent at the beginnig of this thread. It is still 1/87 , but any thread will imply off topic , but still related , and so also here! I think its interesting too , and the pics show beautiful models .

I just did not wanted to be overrun with all other scales , but knowing it would meen a slow progress I absolutely accept ( as if I own this thread?) it. If you even can put a comparing pic on would be really nice sometime. I myself has been "working" on models but am not quite ready to show yet.

But I can tell that my very old homemade ones of 40 years ago wich was made on the basis of one model were in facts not 1/87 , but that only got known many years later when collecting got more serious , and for me there simply were no others!

So guys just keep on , and I have recently bought some interesting models wich I am awaiting anytime and will show asap!


So , keep on rolling!

My LION models Ferrari 250GT SWB arrived yesterday , looks good , and some of the Porsche 904s too, more to come soon to show here ! Promise!

Anyone doing F1 models in 1:87 ? or modern sportsracers ?

I have 8 Formula 1 or Indy , 1 Mclaren F1 , 2 Ferrari F1,2 Ferrari (other type) and 1 indy car as well as 2 Mercedes Benz and 2 Porsche 956/62 sports racers for exchange or the like.

Did any of you ever hear about BIG 6 from US , white metal Ferrari ,Jaguar ,Aston Martin sportsracers , from the late 50s ,5 in a box ! ??????

Here is a link to BIG 6.

http://www.87thscale.info/big_6.htm

I have an unmade set somewhere but cannot remember if they are 1/72 or 1/76.