I just read about the Lotus 96, an Indycar that was developed to take part of the 1984 Indy 500. Despite all efforts that were made, the car finally didn't start. According to any resource, it was because CART changed the technical regulations.
Does anyone have a picture of this car? And what rule changes were introduced and made Lotus decide not to take part of the Indy 500?
1984 Lotus 96 Indycar
Started by
Pingguest
, May 28 2007 10:19
25 replies to this topic
#3
RA Historian
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Posted 28 May 2007 - 16:23
I do not think that it was a matter of regulations changing; rather it was a situation where the money disappeared. IIRC, the Lotus 96 was built for Winkelmann Racing to run in the 1985 (not 84) season. Al Unser Jr was signed as the driver. However, as happens so often, between the grandiose announcements and the actual running of the car, the sponsorship disappeared, Winkelmann bailed, and Unser Jr moved over to Doug Shierson's team.
Tom
Tom
#4
Gary C
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Posted 28 May 2007 - 17:20
there are more photos of the car at Ketteringham Hall in the book 'Lotus at Indy' by Andrew Ferguson.
#5
Twin Window
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Posted 28 May 2007 - 20:55
Ekrem Sami - now a long-term McLaren employee, and a Project 4/McLaren man prior to joining Lotus - came very close to bankrupcy with this project as he funded it himself.
I remember meeting-up with him some time in 1984 when he was telling me all about it and I'm sure he said he'd sunk a quarter-mil into the project...
I remember meeting-up with him some time in 1984 when he was telling me all about it and I'm sure he said he'd sunk a quarter-mil into the project...
#6
f1steveuk
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Posted 29 May 2007 - 10:35
What is it about a black racing car?!! I'd love to see a side view........
Where is it now?
Where is it now?
#7
stuartbrs
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Posted 29 May 2007 - 10:45
Beautiful...
Was thias the car, that the Indy organisers didnt like the Carbon tub?
Was thias the car, that the Indy organisers didnt like the Carbon tub?
#8
Gary C
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Posted 29 May 2007 - 10:53
Hopefully Classic Team Lotus still have the car. Would be nice to see it at a FoS. Doug...??
#9
Michael Oliver
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Posted 29 May 2007 - 11:49
Originally posted by f1steveuk
What is it about a black racing car?!! I'd love to see a side view........
Where is it now?
Steve
I think it's the dark photo which gives it the impression it is black, certainly now it is dark green. I have some photos somewhere as it was displayed at the Team Lotus 50th anniversary celebrations at Hethel a few years back. Now all I've got to do is locate them...!
Michael
#10
f1steveuk
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Posted 29 May 2007 - 12:05
Now you have said that Michael, there is a green hue to it. For fear of being shot down. Indy cars of that era do seem in general, more attractive than their F1 counterparts. The slimmer front wings and the less cumbersome rear ones as well as a more apparent somoothness. Barnard's Indy cars being particularly nice. Obviously there are always exceptions, but in general!
#11
petefenelon
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Posted 29 May 2007 - 12:38
Originally posted by stuartbrs
Beautiful...
Was thias the car, that the Indy organisers didnt like the Carbon tub?
Wasn't that one of the March-Porsches? - they insisted on a honeycomb top to the tub on one of those?
(though I seem to recall that the Lotus was an all-carbon tub too... hmmmmmm)
#12
TennisUK
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Posted 29 May 2007 - 15:31
It does look rather similar to F1 Loti of that period, as well... Was Ducarouge involved?
#13
2F-001
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Posted 29 May 2007 - 18:37
Yes, the 96 is credited to Ducarouge. But, although the project was announced in '84 it was intended to race in '85 CART series but the '85 Indy 500 came and went and the car sill wasn't finished. By that time there was already a proposal to ban fully carbon composite chassis from the series for the following year; although I'd always believed that it was the advent of such cars (and in particular the Lotus) lurking in the background that gave impetus to that rule change.
There were, reported in Autosport, various attempts to arranged some kind of tie-in with the Provimi team, and also to get Teo Fabi to drive one.
Does anyone know if the 96 ever got as far as any serious testing?
(Edit : apologies - somebody already corrected the year)
There were, reported in Autosport, various attempts to arranged some kind of tie-in with the Provimi team, and also to get Teo Fabi to drive one.
Does anyone know if the 96 ever got as far as any serious testing?
(Edit : apologies - somebody already corrected the year)
#14
Gene Varnier
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Posted 30 May 2007 - 22:01
Having read the above comments regarding the Lotus 96, I thought I would finally register on the Forum and provide some background information on the T96 project.
Myself and Martin Ogilvie were the main designers of the 96 and it was "shoe-horned" in during the second half of 1984 whilst also designing the Type 97 F1 car for the 1985 season !
The 96 was a full composite chassis,and mechanically was very much in the same concept as the Type 97. Engines were to be "works" Cosworth DFXs.
RA Historian, you are pretty well correct in your summary of why the car never actually went racing.
Also,when it became public knowledge that we were going to produce a full composite chassis, legal at the time of design, moves began that resulted in the regulations being changed so that the fully composite chassis would be illegal for the 1985 season.
In USAC's defence (the organising body at the time), there was some genuine concern about the secondary impact properties of a fully composite chassis, particularly at Indy.
The colour of the car is indeed Green, and it is an approximate British Racing Green. It was finished off with yellow Team Lotus lettering on the cockpit sides, as the '60s F1 cars (pre sponsorship days)!
As far as I remember, the March Indycar was from 1990. I think it also "fell foul" ? of the Organisers and March had to add a 3mm thick Aluminium "skin" to the lower half of the chassis. You can guess that this didn't help the overall car weight too much !
As regards testing of the 96, the only testing carried out was in the windtunnel. The car never got as far as having an engine "fired up", not even in the workshop.
Classic Team Lotus still own the car, although I heard rumours earlier this year that it might have been for sale.
For those of you further interested, Martin and myself were interviewed by MotorSport magazine in 2004 in association with an article on the 96 that they did for the August issue of that year.Good photos in the article.
I hope the above has been helpfull.
Myself and Martin Ogilvie were the main designers of the 96 and it was "shoe-horned" in during the second half of 1984 whilst also designing the Type 97 F1 car for the 1985 season !
The 96 was a full composite chassis,and mechanically was very much in the same concept as the Type 97. Engines were to be "works" Cosworth DFXs.
RA Historian, you are pretty well correct in your summary of why the car never actually went racing.
Also,when it became public knowledge that we were going to produce a full composite chassis, legal at the time of design, moves began that resulted in the regulations being changed so that the fully composite chassis would be illegal for the 1985 season.
In USAC's defence (the organising body at the time), there was some genuine concern about the secondary impact properties of a fully composite chassis, particularly at Indy.
The colour of the car is indeed Green, and it is an approximate British Racing Green. It was finished off with yellow Team Lotus lettering on the cockpit sides, as the '60s F1 cars (pre sponsorship days)!
As far as I remember, the March Indycar was from 1990. I think it also "fell foul" ? of the Organisers and March had to add a 3mm thick Aluminium "skin" to the lower half of the chassis. You can guess that this didn't help the overall car weight too much !
As regards testing of the 96, the only testing carried out was in the windtunnel. The car never got as far as having an engine "fired up", not even in the workshop.
Classic Team Lotus still own the car, although I heard rumours earlier this year that it might have been for sale.
For those of you further interested, Martin and myself were interviewed by MotorSport magazine in 2004 in association with an article on the 96 that they did for the August issue of that year.Good photos in the article.
I hope the above has been helpfull.
#15
Gary C
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Posted 30 May 2007 - 22:17
Welcome to our forum & thanks indeed for the info regarding the type 96. I must say, you produced a stunning looking race car! It looks absolutely right, what a pity it never ran in anger.
#16
Gene Varnier
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Posted 02 June 2007 - 21:36
A belated thanks for your welcome and comments.
Hopefully I can help with future Lotus 1980s information, as well as late 1970s Tyrrell, 1990s Reynard Indycar and Team Bentley.
gene V
Hopefully I can help with future Lotus 1980s information, as well as late 1970s Tyrrell, 1990s Reynard Indycar and Team Bentley.
gene V
#17
Gary C
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Posted 02 June 2007 - 21:59
...then you obviously know Bob Dance quite well??
#18
Gene Varnier
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Posted 03 June 2007 - 19:35
Haven't seen Bob for a couple of months now, but know him quite well, having worked with him at Team Lotus and RTN, albeit on the design side in both instances.
#19
rdefabri
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Posted 05 October 2007 - 01:17
Don't let this thread die - as a lifelong F1 and AOWR fan (primarily CART), I would love to see more of the 96T!!! I am enthralled that both Lotus and Ferrari, at the relative height of F1 and their involvment in F1 actually considered CART as a valid series.
Considering the current sad state of American Open Wheel, I need something to warm my heart - any more details on the 96T??
Considering the current sad state of American Open Wheel, I need something to warm my heart - any more details on the 96T??
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#20
barrykm
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Posted 05 October 2007 - 15:26
Originally posted by f1steveuk
Now you have said that Michael, there is a green hue to it. For fear of being shot down. Indy cars of that era do seem in general, more attractive than their F1 counterparts. The slimmer front wings and the less cumbersome rear ones as well as a more apparent somoothness. Barnard's Indy cars being particularly nice. Obviously there are always exceptions, but in general!
Absolutely agree.
Would love to see a side-view of of the 96
#21
rdefabri
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Posted 05 October 2007 - 16:24
I found this crappy shot - but that's it. It looks remarkably similar to the Ferrari Tipo 637 (stunning)!
http://lotus.www.50megs.com/96-1.jpg
http://lotus.www.50megs.com/96-1.jpg
#22
Gary C
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Posted 05 October 2007 - 16:28
'Would love to see a side-view of of the 96'
Get a copy of the 'Lotus At Indy' book!!
Get a copy of the 'Lotus At Indy' book!!
#23
mikegtr
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Posted 05 October 2007 - 23:01
Hi this is my first post hope it is of use.
Photos of the type 96 are available on the Coterie Press web site :
www.coteriepress.com
Click on the Photo galley link and and enter the type number you are looking for and bingo, there are 19 photos of the 96T. Photos include 'under the skin' photos
mikegtr
Photos of the type 96 are available on the Coterie Press web site :
www.coteriepress.com
Click on the Photo galley link and and enter the type number you are looking for and bingo, there are 19 photos of the 96T. Photos include 'under the skin' photos
mikegtr
#24
macoran
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Posted 06 October 2007 - 09:04
I think you have answered everyone's wishes mikegtr.
Thanks
teriffic link
Thanks
teriffic link
#25
rdefabri
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Posted 06 October 2007 - 13:16
That's a real beauty...to bad we couldn't get them back in the game 
#26
GMiranda
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Posted 09 August 2023 - 15:59
I do not think that it was a matter of regulations changing; rather it was a situation where the money disappeared. IIRC, the Lotus 96 was built for Winkelmann Racing to run in the 1985 (not 84) season. Al Unser Jr was signed as the driver. However, as happens so often, between the grandiose announcements and the actual running of the car, the sponsorship disappeared, Winkelmann bailed, and Unser Jr moved over to Doug Shierson's team.
Tom
Al Unser Jr. was lucky after all this mess. He had signed with Winkelmann Lotus for 1984, but when the project folded, there were no more empty seats full-time. He got the Shierson's drive when John Paul Jr. was caught in JP Sr's business mess. John Paul Sr. was arrested early in 1985, and Junior lost both the money and the reputation, as it was enough for the sponsors not to want to be associated with him. Paul Jr. signed for Conte to drive on IMSA until he became definitively embroidered in the legal mess, while Al Jr. got the driver with Doug and soon became an established star.
