Full Version: Force India F1 is born
Yes.
Initially it was Force India's plan to only race the seamless gearbox on Friday. But the drivers were so happy with it they, together with their race engineers, decided to also used them for the rest of the weekend taking up the grid penalty (that wouldn't have hurt them anyway). Though shortly before 18:00 Dominik Harlow came with the news that both new gearboxes had broken down so the team again had to switch back to the old plan.
Mallya had really hoped his team would get closer to the midfield with the many updates the car has had in recent times. But it very much seems he will have to wait till next year to prove his luck...
Mallya had really hoped his team would get closer to the midfield with the many updates the car has had in recent times. But it very much seems he will have to wait till next year to prove his luck...
Zimmerman (manager) said Sutil is absolutely going to keep his seat at Force India next year. Fisichella is very likely to stay his teammate.
Mallya has confirmed Fisichella will stay at the team in 2009.
I believe these bulky pieces of bodywork underneeth the frontsuspension are new:
Originally posted by AFCA
That's very interesting indeed.
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Balbir Singh, Schumacher's old and famous physiotherapist, is back ! After he left Schumacher / Ferrari and the world of Formula 1 in 2005 to set up a health centre in Germany, he has now been hired by Force India to take care of Fisichella's, Sutil's and Liuzzi's condition.
That's very interesting indeed.
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Balbir Singh, Schumacher's old and famous physiotherapist, is back ! After he left Schumacher / Ferrari and the world of Formula 1 in 2005 to set up a health centre in Germany, he has now been hired by Force India to take care of Fisichella's, Sutil's and Liuzzi's condition.
Good to see Balbir back!
Originally posted by AFCA
I believe these bulky pieces of bodywork underneeth the frontsuspension are new:
I believe these bulky pieces of bodywork underneeth the frontsuspension are new:
Not really. They are there for a long time, at least since the Canadian GP, if not more.
http://www.autosport.com/gallery/photo.php/id/103441
Oh hehe, nevermind then 
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A spokesperson on why Force India isn't testing this week: ''Force India isn't testing because of logistical difficulties. Coming back from Italy we need all our means to prepare properly for the remaining four overseas' Grand Prix'.''
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A spokesperson on why Force India isn't testing this week: ''Force India isn't testing because of logistical difficulties. Coming back from Italy we need all our means to prepare properly for the remaining four overseas' Grand Prix'.''
Those have been there since the start of the season.
Scarbs has even had them mentioned in the pre season car assessment.
I've found it covered in this from Feb.
http://www.autosport.com/journal/article.php/id/1463
Scarbs has even had them mentioned in the pre season car assessment.
I've found it covered in this from Feb.
http://www.autosport.com/journal/article.php/id/1463
Originally posted by AFCA
Today Haug confirmed ''to be in talks with several teams'' about supplying Mercedes engines, and possibly more.
''However nothing has been definitively decided.'' The German hopes this matter is clarified before the end of the season. McLaren is involved in the talks. One of the interested parties, as we know, is Force India. Mallya's team is keen in almost getting the whole rear end from McLaren Mercedes, that is to say: the engine, the gearbox, the rearsuspension and KERS. It is assumed the billionair can get a cheaper deal in Stuttgart/Woking than in Maranello.
Haug: ''For a long time we've stated our preparedness in cooperating with a second and possibly a third team in Formula 1, if these teams and Formula 1 in general can be helped by it. This, obviously in return of adequate payment.''
Mercedes motorsport vice president emphasises the importance of independent teams: ''They're the backbone of Formula 1.''
Today Haug confirmed ''to be in talks with several teams'' about supplying Mercedes engines, and possibly more.
''However nothing has been definitively decided.'' The German hopes this matter is clarified before the end of the season. McLaren is involved in the talks. One of the interested parties, as we know, is Force India. Mallya's team is keen in almost getting the whole rear end from McLaren Mercedes, that is to say: the engine, the gearbox, the rearsuspension and KERS. It is assumed the billionair can get a cheaper deal in Stuttgart/Woking than in Maranello.
Haug: ''For a long time we've stated our preparedness in cooperating with a second and possibly a third team in Formula 1, if these teams and Formula 1 in general can be helped by it. This, obviously in return of adequate payment.''
Mercedes motorsport vice president emphasises the importance of independent teams: ''They're the backbone of Formula 1.''
Kolles: ''Next year we'll have an engine. I'd rather not say anything more about it.''
Force India's chief confirms McLaren Mercedes is in talks with several teams about a possibly deal: ''What McLaren says is right. Force India has to move forward to become more competitive. One has to see which technological partnership and which (financial) package is the best one.''
At the moment he cannot and isn't willing to disclose anymore about it and it's best to just wait till an official announcement is being made.
What is certain though that Force India will continue to be a constructor and, unlike Toro Rosso, won't be having a customer car: ''We will build our own car. We're still taking up more people and have finally been able to have the windtunnel in Brackley (I think this is Honda's old one - AFCA) at our disposal 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. A technological partnership doesn't necessarily mean getting a customer chassis.''
Originally posted by AFCA
Kolles: ''Next year we'll have an engine. I'd rather not say anything more about it.'''
Force India's chief confirms McLaren Mercedes is in talks with several teams about a possibly deal: ''What McLaren says is right. Force India has to move forward to become more competitive. One has to see which technological partnership and which (financial) package is the best one.''
At the moment he cannot and isn't willing to disclose anymore about it and it's best to just wait till an official announcement is being made.
What is certain though that Force India will continue to be a constructor and, unlike Toro Rosso, won't be having a customer car: ''We will build our own car. We're still taking up more people and have finally been able to have the windtunnel in Brackley (I think this is Honda's old one - AFCA) at our disposal 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. A technological partnership doesn't necessarily mean getting a customer chassis.''
No it's not. That's the same old (upgraded) Jordan wind tunnel in Brackley (not be confused with Honda F1 who are also based in Brackley).
Kolles: ''Next year we'll have an engine. I'd rather not say anything more about it.'''
Force India's chief confirms McLaren Mercedes is in talks with several teams about a possibly deal: ''What McLaren says is right. Force India has to move forward to become more competitive. One has to see which technological partnership and which (financial) package is the best one.''
At the moment he cannot and isn't willing to disclose anymore about it and it's best to just wait till an official announcement is being made.
What is certain though that Force India will continue to be a constructor and, unlike Toro Rosso, won't be having a customer car: ''We will build our own car. We're still taking up more people and have finally been able to have the windtunnel in Brackley (I think this is Honda's old one - AFCA) at our disposal 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. A technological partnership doesn't necessarily mean getting a customer chassis.''
I see.
That windtunnel probably isn't ranked among the best ones, but it's good they finally have one of their own.
That windtunnel probably isn't ranked among the best ones, but it's good they finally have one of their own.
Originally posted by AFCA
I see.
That windtunnel probably isn't ranked among the best ones, but it's good they finally have one of their own.
I see.
That windtunnel probably isn't ranked among the best ones, but it's good they finally have one of their own.
They are also using Aerolabs and Lola's tunnels.
I doubt they still do (as frequently) now...
German source
So here is my bad translation for an interview that was probably translated from English to German before...
Force India: New engine partner because of KERS?
[...]
Marketing chef Ian Phillips in an interview with BBC Radio:
"Ferrari does not want us to develop our own system, but on the other side they can not tell us whether they are going to start the next season with KERS."
"Force India has to build a car that complies with the new rules and can not afford to create a car without KERS and then suddenly turn around in July or whenever and say that the system is now available after all."
"Ferrari is unable to say what is going on, whether they are going delay their KERS to the third or fourth race next year."
"At the moment nobody knows what will happen, but there are three or four teams with undeveloped systems. At the end of October is really the time you have to check off the chassis design."
And what if Force India has to drive without KERS ?
"One of the technical managers of a team told me that a car without KERS might win the championship next year. There are some arguments for it, because without KERS you can develop the car further in regards to the wheelbase, the chassis, the weight distribution and so on. Maybe you are going to qualify brilliantly with it, but the cars with KERS would make up for it when they can use their increased power at the start."
So here is my bad translation for an interview that was probably translated from English to German before...
Force India: New engine partner because of KERS?
[...]
Marketing chef Ian Phillips in an interview with BBC Radio:
"Ferrari does not want us to develop our own system, but on the other side they can not tell us whether they are going to start the next season with KERS."
"Force India has to build a car that complies with the new rules and can not afford to create a car without KERS and then suddenly turn around in July or whenever and say that the system is now available after all."
"Ferrari is unable to say what is going on, whether they are going delay their KERS to the third or fourth race next year."
"At the moment nobody knows what will happen, but there are three or four teams with undeveloped systems. At the end of October is really the time you have to check off the chassis design."
And what if Force India has to drive without KERS ?
"One of the technical managers of a team told me that a car without KERS might win the championship next year. There are some arguments for it, because without KERS you can develop the car further in regards to the wheelbase, the chassis, the weight distribution and so on. Maybe you are going to qualify brilliantly with it, but the cars with KERS would make up for it when they can use their increased power at the start."
Gascoyne has mentioned on a few occasions the use of Aerolabs and Lola's tunnels ontop of their own one in Brackley. They have a long term usage deal with Aerolab, as per the deal with lola, that migh be picking up the slack for jobs while the Brackley tunnel was coming back up to full use again.
The Brackley tunnel was a 30% scale sized one when March had it, Jordan bought the tunnel in 1996, and upgraded it to 40%. while not a top tunnel, it had always produced the results as expected and the latest upgrade has allowed them to use 50% scale.
The interesting part is, them being able to use the tunnel 24 hours. They did run 18 hours at one stage but noise abatement rules stopped them from running 24 hours. Since there are houses across the road from it. (if you were to go past it, you wouldnt realise it is there, its inside a normal industrial warehouse.
The Brackley tunnel was a 30% scale sized one when March had it, Jordan bought the tunnel in 1996, and upgraded it to 40%. while not a top tunnel, it had always produced the results as expected and the latest upgrade has allowed them to use 50% scale.
The interesting part is, them being able to use the tunnel 24 hours. They did run 18 hours at one stage but noise abatement rules stopped them from running 24 hours. Since there are houses across the road from it. (if you were to go past it, you wouldnt realise it is there, its inside a normal industrial warehouse.
Head: ''In Valencia I got involved in a conversation between Ecclestone, Briatore and Mallya. Mallya was appalled about Vettel setting the fastest time in the free practice session. After that he wanted to accept customer cars because he was using three windtunnels and still got beaten by a customer car himself. He said: 'If that's the only way to make sure I can hold my head up, then we do it.' And Bernie said: 'I'll make it possible.'''
A complete return of customer cars won't be possible but Mallya has found the second best solution: an extensive technical relationship with McLaren. Along with the engine McLaren Mercedes is to supply KERS as well. Leading technical figures from the Woking based team would be transferred to Silverstone and soon Force India is to have the same suppliers when it comes to parts like the brakes, clutchs, springs and bars.
Mallya: ''There's a proposal from FOM to change the Concorde Agreement in such a way that the teams that have been in Formula 1 for longer than ten years, are allowed to share parts among themselves. And the more you share the more money you save.''
The negotiations between the two teams in Shanghai were already in such an advanced state that the deal could already be done before the Brasilian GP. In February Force (Mc)India would then be testing with almost a copy of the MP4-24.
The FIA coul help a little as well: if the manufacturers are able to offer their drive train for € 5 million a year, then the plan to have a single aggregate will be dropped.
A complete return of customer cars won't be possible but Mallya has found the second best solution: an extensive technical relationship with McLaren. Along with the engine McLaren Mercedes is to supply KERS as well. Leading technical figures from the Woking based team would be transferred to Silverstone and soon Force India is to have the same suppliers when it comes to parts like the brakes, clutchs, springs and bars.
Mallya: ''There's a proposal from FOM to change the Concorde Agreement in such a way that the teams that have been in Formula 1 for longer than ten years, are allowed to share parts among themselves. And the more you share the more money you save.''
The negotiations between the two teams in Shanghai were already in such an advanced state that the deal could already be done before the Brasilian GP. In February Force (Mc)India would then be testing with almost a copy of the MP4-24.
The FIA coul help a little as well: if the manufacturers are able to offer their drive train for € 5 million a year, then the plan to have a single aggregate will be dropped.
The FIA has given the green light for McLaren to supply the entire rearend of their car to Force India. The deal between the two teams was actually to be announced this weekend but Ferrari is slowing down things. The Italians want a compensation if McLaren comes and the contract gets broken. Whitmarsh: ''We won't come into play as long as we don't get Ferrari's acceptance.''
i think the plan for the single agregate is gonna be dropped regardless of the price of a drivetrain. Perhaps mosleys idiots cabinet should take a look at the daily mails claim lewis hamilton is gonna make 100 milion pounds a year. Or ron dennis 12 milion pound a year salary.
Mallya: ''I'm in active talks with McLaren-Mercedes and Ferrari.''
The Force India teamowner is unsatisfied with the reliability of the new seamless gearbox: ''What's the point in getting a great engine and a great KERS system to then suffer from a fragile gearbox ?''
Fisichella had a gearbox malfunction in Brazil, Sutil had problems with the gearbox in China.
''Exactly for this reason I want the whole package. I want to have a fully developed and tested package from one of the two topteams.''
Mallya is prepared buying out the contract he has with Ferrari in order to be able to switch to McLaren: ''If Ferrari has already generated costs because they're developing engines for us for next season, then I will talk about that. I go about this issue without false expectations. If they've spent money for me then I owe them the offer to repay this amount of money.''
The Force India teamowner is unsatisfied with the reliability of the new seamless gearbox: ''What's the point in getting a great engine and a great KERS system to then suffer from a fragile gearbox ?''
Fisichella had a gearbox malfunction in Brazil, Sutil had problems with the gearbox in China.
''Exactly for this reason I want the whole package. I want to have a fully developed and tested package from one of the two topteams.''
Mallya is prepared buying out the contract he has with Ferrari in order to be able to switch to McLaren: ''If Ferrari has already generated costs because they're developing engines for us for next season, then I will talk about that. I go about this issue without false expectations. If they've spent money for me then I owe them the offer to repay this amount of money.''
What was ferraris price for a year of customer engines? I thought something like 30 million euros. How much would ferrari be willing to let go of that contract? I think not a lot less than that figure. Then the question rises how much does mclaren want for not only an engine, but also a gearboxtranny, brakes, springs and whatever? 5 million euros??? 
Originally posted by equality
What was ferraris price for a year of customer engines? I thought something like 30 million euros.
What was ferraris price for a year of customer engines? I thought something like 30 million euros.
It was more like € 14 million iirc. And of course that's not the figure to prematurely end the contract. The rumors had it McLaren would be charging something like € 10 million for the whole drive train package. So any "buyout" less than € 4 million would effectively mean cost saving for FI (assuming those numbers are correct).
Isn't their any possibility of Ferrari to extend its deal and provide full drivetrian package?
YAY! 
Who expected that?
EPIC
Congratulations to FI
Congratulations to FI
Aaaaaawsome....
Look at the top qualifiers.
All the quiet old boys with experience.
Fisi in a FI made his former team mate Alonso in a Renault look ordinary.
Lets hope his reliability stays tomorrow.
Fisi makes very few mistakes.
He is good for a podium, if KERS is not a factor.
Look at the top qualifiers.
All the quiet old boys with experience.
Fisi in a FI made his former team mate Alonso in a Renault look ordinary.
Lets hope his reliability stays tomorrow.
Fisi makes very few mistakes.
He is good for a podium, if KERS is not a factor.
Force India getting a pole before Ferrari. Classic.
Grande Fisico
does FORCE INDIA sounds weird now also or are not ???
I've always liked the name 'Force India', even though I think nationalistic names for car racing teams are a bit weak.
Has this been the only thread for Force India since the team was christened?! 
As Andrew says, its quite a cool name even though I'm not keen on the national teams idea. But the abbreviation FI confuses me because if I skim read, I often mistake it for F1.
As Andrew says, its quite a cool name even though I'm not keen on the national teams idea. But the abbreviation FI confuses me because if I skim read, I often mistake it for F1.
yes i agree with both ... initially i felt name to weak but i am use to it and don't find it weird ... but i don't think this team really works as a national team ... it works just like other teams
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