Seebar
Nov 23 2007, 12:29
I just saw the review of the 1989 season where, at the wet Belgian race, Eddie Cheever - a lap behind - held up Nigel Mansell for lap after lap and was shown said flag.
I'd like to ask this knowledgeable crowd two things: Since when does this flag exist and was it ever used at any other time?
The racing code of flags has changed a few times over the years and regions of usage, but I don't recall a black/white flag other than the checquered one - there was/is a black one with an orange disc, meaning mechanical problems iirc.
alansart
Nov 23 2007, 14:53
It's still in use!
Black & White Diagonal Flag
Shown with a number board to warn a driver his track conduct is causing concern and he may be Black flagged.
CoulthardD
Nov 23 2007, 14:53
"Eddie Cheever - a lap behind - held up Nigel Mansell for lap after lap and was shown said flag."
As Seebar says, it's used to tell a competitor that his driving standards are being observed. Failure to improve results in the black flag and disqualification.
No idea when it was introduced!
David Coulthard
Is that not a race that Nigel Mansell should not have been in? He and Alessandro Nannini left the pits before the start, due to late tyre changes and a lack of correct signals. Maybe the flag was for him and not Eddie Cheever.
CoulthardD
Nov 23 2007, 14:54
Snap!
DC
I started racing in 1980 and we had that flag. I was under the impression that it had 'always' been around.
Seebar
Nov 25 2007, 17:31
Originally posted by subh
Is that not a race that Nigel Mansell should not have been in? He and Alessandro Nannini left the pits before the start, due to late tyre changes and a lack of correct signals. Maybe the flag was for him and not Eddie Cheever.
I seem to recall that this happened at the Canadian Grand Prix that year, where they were both blackflagged. The flag in Spa was definitely for Cheever.
I didn't even know that, as alansart posted, it's still in use. I'd think that in these days of drive-through penalties as the overall punishment and backmarkers taking to the grass when a faster car moves to within half a mile, there is little use left for this flag.
So it already existed in 1980, thanks for that piece of information. Maybe it was used more often in 'lower' formulae?
eldougo
Nov 26 2007, 08:16
It was not around in the lated 60,s or early 70,s.
Rob Semmeling
Nov 26 2007, 08:58
Here it is at the Spa Six Heures meeting earlier this year:
Arrows4Ever
Nov 26 2007, 18:01
I was flagging at major events in the 2006-07 season here in Montreal and around(including the F1GP) and we didn't even have one in our flag kits...
Then again, I never flagged at the start/finish post. Maybe that's where it's always (and only) shown!
ensign14
Nov 26 2007, 18:03
Originally posted by Arrows4Ever
I was flagging at major events in the 2006-07 season here in Montreal and around(including the F1GP) and we didn't even have one in our flag kits...
I think it can only be flown at the start/finish (like the black flag?).
Arrows4Ever
Nov 26 2007, 18:04
Ooops...just edited about that actually...
Arrows4Ever
Nov 26 2007, 18:15
Just checked in my papers and it actually is shown at the start/finish after we(flagging at posts around the track) radio-in all the proper info concerning the misconduct of a driver around the track to Race Control who then decides or not to tell the steward at the start/finish line to show the diagonal flag(and base their decision upon the info they get from flaggers...since not all events are major and televised).
Frank Verplanken
Nov 27 2007, 02:30
Incidentally I watched the broadcast of the dramatic 1978 Australian GP the other day. One of the weirdest scenes of this apocalyptic race is that of eventual race winner Graham McRae slowing down in front of the race director spot to ask what on earth was this flag they just waved at him and what was he supposed to do

... It was apparently the "unsportsmanship" or "bad sportsmanship" flag, whose colours seemed to be (as per the race commentators) particular to Australia. McRae received it for either not slowing down enough or lapping cars where Garrie Cooper was still rescued from his horrific crash. The flag only was a warning it seems as McRae continued his way after this episode and dully won the race, err destruction derby, marred by Allan Hamilton's horrendous shunt.
Originally posted by Seebär
I seem to recall that this happened at the Canadian Grand Prix that year, where they were both blackflagged. The flag in Spa was definitely for Cheever.
You’re right, of course. I saw the words ‘wet’, ‘race’ and ‘1989’, but somehow managed to miss the word ‘Belgian’ and read it as ‘Canadian’. And there I was wondering why nobody had acknowledged my contribution. Whoops...
Originally posted by Frank Verplanken
Incidentally I watched the broadcast of the dramatic 1978 Australian GP the other day. One of the weirdest scenes of this apocalyptic race is that of eventual race winner Graham McRae slowing down in front of the race director spot to ask what on earth was this flag they just waved at him and what was he supposed to do
... It was apparently the "unsportsmanship" or "bad sportsmanship" flag, whose colours seemed to be (as per the race commentators) particular to Australia. McRae received it for either not slowing down enough or lapping cars where Garrie Cooper was still rescued from his horrific crash. The flag only was a warning it seems as McRae continued his way after this episode and dully won the race, err destruction derby, marred by Allan Hamilton's horrendous shunt.
[old man in blazer]
Doesn't say very much for McRae that story.
I once heard a soccer ref state that soccer was
the sport that you could participate in on the highest level and at the same time have no idea about some of the most basic rules.
Having been around motorsport for some years now, I think we can challenge that claim.
[/old man in blazer]
ensign14
Nov 27 2007, 19:52
People know the basic rules of football, it's just the interpretation where people do not agree. Rugby, however, is a whole different story...
Still completely OT. I beg to differ. Fast now:
How long can the goalie keep the ball in his hands?
How close can you stand to a player throwing in?
Does it differ if you are jumping or not?
What are the maximum and minimum length and width of the pitch?
And even if YOU know the answers I would venture to guess that less than 50% of Premier League players do.
ensign14
Nov 27 2007, 21:58
I think they do, cos those laws are seldom breached (although a Sevilla player did get booked tonight for encroaching a throw-in, it was deliberate time-wasting).
Although
Peter Enckelman was unsure about the laws on scoring from throw-ins..
Then again, in motor sport the vast majority of regulations appear to be totally unpublished. TWG clarifications and so on.
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