Hi Henk

A Ceccato four stroke??? I would certainly like to hear about that one too
There´s a lot of macines out there still to be re- discovered
I have just learned of a Somaschini 50cc racebike - 4 stroke too!


50cc racer

The Ceccato production racer was designed by Fabio Taglioni to be entered in Milano-Taranto and similar races, before he went to Ducati. The engine had a OHC driven by a gear-train, only in 75cc and 100cc. It looked like a downscaled MV125 monoalbero.

In 1959 (and 1960?) Edmund Bühler competed in Moto Cup with a 50cc "Morini". At least, that's the official story. From the pictures I found in German magazines I am sure that this bike was in fact a Ceccato factory racer. Some years ago I found a 50cc Ceccato engine in Germany that was reduced to 50cc by a short stroke crankshaft made by Mahle. The engine was disguised with a name plate of Guilietta.

Sergio's picture of Moto Cup 1960 is the first I have seen that could verify this story.

Some pictures

Henk

This great picture makes me kind of sad. Why?






50cc racer

Eugenio Lazzarini?

Tormo, special ocaition.

Ricardo Tormo

Bad spelling!

Hello to all,my names Darren and have come across this forum because out of curiosity i googled my grandads name which is Don Juler rider number 15 mentioned in the above and it brought me to here ,this is a fantastic topic about 50cc racing a subject i hear from my grandad a lot as it was a big part of his life,are there any members on here that remember him from his racing days also i would love to be able to find out aand tell him the whereabouts of his old bikes if indeed they are still about these days ,at the time of his racing days in the he always had the logo NEC on his tank i belive they were homebuilt bikes and he quite favored the Itom engine which he rebuilt to his own specs,i will get some pictures off him of them as i know there are hundreds to chose from and post some up hopefully they may jog a memory or two

Hi Darren,
I remember racing and being beaten by grandad at Snetterton on his NEC.To put it plainly,he was a better rider than me.Only raced a Snett about 3 times and don't think I ever bettered him.Don was very quick through the corners and although I could pull a little back down that long straight on my Honda CR110 it wasn't enough!Last time I was there it would be '73 I think.I remember his bike(s) as being delightfuly simple and they looked about half the weight of mine.Look forwards to the piccies.Tell grandad that most of the old riders reside here in Nostalgia Heights Old Racers Home
ATB HW

Hi Darren and welcome

I have an Italian friend who has a special interest in Itoms, and he has corresponded a lot with Your grandad. I have translated some of these letters, and remember a comment of the NEC-Itom now residing in Japan. You can find some pictures here:

http://www.elsberg-tuning.dk/itom.html#itomspecials

Good luck in finding old connections and You are more than welcome to add as many pictures as possible - soon!



50cc racer

Hi Darren
I knew your grandad well during the 60s as we did not live far apart Would love to hear from him Get him to e.mail me at art1139m@yahoo.co.uk Would also like to know what happened to the Tohatso he aquired near the end of his racing career. If my memory serves me right he also had a big interest in speedboat hydroplane racing on Oulton Broad and made brass propellors for some of the competitors
Look forward to hearing from you Arthur Lawn

Yes, Ricardo Tormo on the Jan Thiel prepared Garelli - winning big style at Imola 1983 - last race of the season, and by that the last ever 50cc GP race.






50cc racer

I am so impressed now Dane



David

PS Morning you lot in England Afternoon Oz and probably good evening Phillipe I'm off to bed it's 2am! back later, this is getting good

Hi Darren

My friend Claudio Ghisoni wants to submit following pics of a NEC- Itom now living in Japan:







50cc racer

As said ive been and raided grandads (Don Juler)cupboards this evening and gathered a selection of piccys ,hope you like them









Passing a 125cc at snetterton


These last 3 were taken during the last mass start race on the IOM 1968



Thanks for all the previous replys guys grandad really perked up when i told him as he loves to talk about his racing days
Thanks again
Darren

Hi Darren, brilliant photos, thanks


David

Most of his pictures are on slides so when i get a good amount of free time i will transfer them onto my pc and see if theres some little gems amongst them

Darren,get back in that cupboard and do some more 'raiding'.Great photos,of a great rider.Particularly like the one going round the 125 Yam.That was the view that I had most of the time of Don!!
ATB HW

easy www




recently found a box of slides, will scan a few at a time.

John

Barry Smith - Isle of Man - 1969 - Works Derbi??

Yes Barry it is, a bit too easy.

Oh, it was 68.

An easy win for him, if there is such a thing as an easy win.

And a £75 prize

Thank´s For the prize......You shouldn´t have done that!

No problem.

£200 for guessing a Senior TT winner.

Ah but we got £15 off the Isle of Man goverment tourist board which Phil Read thanked them for at a piss up laid on by an IoM brewery He was taking the pi-- though

Paul Rimmelzwaan was Dutch Champion 80cc in 1985 and earned a 10th place in the World Championship.

On October 26 1985, Paul went shopping on his Yamaha RD, near his house, while overtaking a car lost control of the motorcycle.

He lost his life after he collided head on a lamppost .... The Leidschendammer was only 31 years.

Only 12 from 33 starters finished the race.

Top runner Angel Nieto crashed his works Derbi in the first lap, and broke his leg.

Winner Barry Smith raced a works Derbi to.

IOM TT 1968, 50ccm, 3 laps, 182.160 km:

1 SMITH Barry, Aus, Derbi, 1h31'37"3, 117,29 km/h, fastest lap 30'40"5
2 WALPOLE Chris M., Gbr, Honda, 108,22 km/h
3 GRIFFITH Leslie, Gbr, Honda, 106,53 km/h
4 LOCK Brian, Gbr, Honda, 105,64 km/h
5 PINK Jim, Gbr, Honda, 103,21 km/h
6 UDALL Robin M., Gbr, Honda, 100,22 km/h
7 LAWLEY John, Honda, 99,99 km/h
8 STOPFORD R. P., Heldun
9 MAYO Nick J., Heldun
10 REDFEARN Fran, Honda
11 GOUCH Rodney, Ducati
12 COSGROVE Harold, Keidler

DNF:

KUNZ Rudolf, Ger, Keidler
NIETO Angel, Spa, Derbi
GLEED B. F., Honda
LAWLEY S. G. W., Honda
ROBINSON A., Suzuki
Mc HENRY Eamon, Yamaha
LAWLOR Luke, Derbi
PAYNE T. P., Honda
HARLOW D., Itom
FINCH J. R., Itom
BURGESS K., Itom
ALLEN M., ACS
ASPIN Stuart, Garelli
BOYD Bertie, Foster
CASH Doug, Heldun
DICKINSON Gary, Garelli
HARLOW A., Itom
JULER D. A., Itom
LAWN Arthur. C., Honda
LIPTROTT A. J., Honda
RYDER Don, Derbi

Yes that 50cc TT was one of the biggest disappointments of my racing days Everything ran fine in practise and I was 3rd fastest We thoroughly checked the little Honda over even to the point of taking it up to Brandywell for a few blasts on the Sunday morning Come race day and pretty confident we set off and it dropped a valve in on the first lap just before the bottom of Bray Hill wrecking the engine and leaving me with a big repair bill. Still thats the story of my life at the TT where I must have left more scrap metal around the coarse than anyone.

I can imagine your disappointment, Arthur. Judging by the number who didn't finish, it seems that for the 50cc class the TT was as much a reliability trial as a race? Was it two laps for the fifties? What sort of speed would the Honda have been pulling coming down Bray Hill or at the Highlander speed trap?

slightly off topic but what a rare road 50cc on evil bay at the moment

I had 1 of these in proddy race spec.....mine had the horizontal slide del orto + rear sets and Jakeman fairing

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...%3D1&_rdc=1

In those days the TT was a reliability test for all cc classes particularly 250cc and below.The 50 race was 2 laps and although I never did pay much attention to top speed I guess the works bikes were hitting around 120mph and the little Honda CR110 would be knocking on around the ton as around 70mph average was about the top speed achieved at both the Island and at Dunrod for the Ulster What I do know is that I frequently reved it to 16000rpm and I wonder if that was the mistake I made when plunging down Bray the first time

No rev limiters in those days either Arthur and with the constant high speeds reliability must have been a real problem. Did the wind affect you much?





David

Good morning everyone. I have stumbled across this wonderful thread and have a few questions..

- What front forks would be a good choice for a build like this?

I am rebuilding a 1964 Yamaha Yj1 for a around town rider. the stock engine runs, but lacks any power at all or dependability (60cc).
I am going to refit the bike with a lifan 125cc.

- is there a place to buy old "fast racing moped" parts?

Thanks, Jason

Hi Jason

Ebay is a good source for tracking down usable parts - here is a prime quality fork:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...ME:B:SS:GB:1123

This site got a list of links to most of the shops supplying classic 50cc racebikes here in Europe:
http://www.elsberg-tuning.dk/links.html

Good luck



50cc racer

Who is leading this Kreidler duo?





50cc racer

Hans-Georg Anscheidt on 35
HW

David
There's one of these on ebay near me in Illinois right now!

[quote name='Herr Wankel' date='Jan 26 2008, 14:09' post='2994197']
I can only tell you when it wasn't.After 73/74,so many disc brakes,cast wheels and 2-strokes!6 could be Greg Lawton,Suzuki special based on ASS50 Suzy?141 possibly Terry Keane?Grids were always drawn by ballot so grid place is no indication of lap times.
[/quote


Here is the info you require.. for the Darley moor pic It was 31st Aug 81 Number 141 is John kernan on M.B.A engined U.F.O (my Dad ) 6 R.Simkin. 74 E. Rees. 4 B. Skelton. 48 K. Hayes Others that were on the grid that day were, 37 Hugh Mcgivor 1 Hugh Slater 5 R.Doulton 7 m or S Taylor 8 R.Ponti 107 .Ian Mconnachie 70 C.Gamble 87 M.Jones 98 J Creswell 99 J.Bowers 106 S.Clark 12 M. Cook 52 D Brearley 30 S.Coldicot 31 G .Lawton 21 M.Schopman 26 J.Sauders 15 D.Whightman 33 A.Myronko 47 R.Lee

Provini out front with Anschiedt ?

Here is the info you require.. for the Darley moor pic It was 31st Aug 81 Number 141 is John kernan on M.B.A engined U.F.O (my Dad ) 6 R.Simkin. 74 E. Rees. 4 B. Skelton. 48 K. Hayes Others that were on the grid that day were, 37 Hugh Mcgivor 1 Hugh Slater 5 R.Doulton 7 m or S Taylor 8 R.Ponti 107 .Ian Mconnachie 70 C.Gamble 87 M.Jones 98 J Creswell 99 J.Bowers 106 S.Clark 12 M. Cook 52 D Brearley 30 S.Coldicot 31 G .Lawton 21 M.Schopman 26 J.Sauders 15 D.Whightman 33 A.Myronko 47 R.Lee
[/quote]

Thanks Morbidellimad,
No wonder I didn't get many right,it was 7 years after I packed up,and I never went back after that.About 5 names from when I was tiddler pedaling there though,and a couple of later names that went on to better things.I remember your dad on a 125 MBA,from way back.Has mba21 been in touch with you,as he is hoping to get his MBA back on track.
ATB HW

Nope, but reading the track-signs will give a hint



50cc racer
www.elsberg-tuning.dk

Jacky Ickx?

J.P.Beltoise?
HW

Yes, Jean- Pierre Beltoise it is - and here he is again one year earlier:





50cc racer

Indeed it is Jean-Pierre at the 1964 French GP, on the older 1962 model, while Hans is driving the 1964 model with the new frame and more streamlined fairing. JPB got the better of Ancheidt for a good part of the race, and finished in third place. Hugh Anderson won the race with his works Suzuki.
JPB was an amazing motorcycle racer and could have been a world champion if he had not switched to cars and been the victim of that terrible accident at Reims.

The VAP-Monneret bike was specially built for a series of endurance records on the Monthlery banked oval. I was there that week and watched, as the little 50cc broke all kinds of records. However I do not believe that the picture shown is of Jean-Pierre, I believe that the driver is Jean-Claude Serre. Beltoise NEVER had a silver Cromwell helmet as far as I can recall, but Serre had one.

Sorry, uploaded wrong picture





50cc racer

Now THAT's JPB...
I I recall correctly, Jean Pierre was wearing a Geno helmet, a French made job. Looks similar the the Cromwell but is not, it is not pointed at the back.
By the way, the Vap-Monneret was a French moped or mockick depending on version, powered by a forced-air cooled Sacks 4-speed engine developing about 4.5HP in road trim. Philippe Monneret, son of George Monneret who loaned his name to the moped, has one in his collection, all restored to original condition. George had a motorcycle store near Place de la Bastille in Paris. My brother bought his Franco Morini-powered Paloma "Flash" there in 1962.


Picture courtesy Pierre Monneret

Nice one T54

What do you think of this:






50cc racer

Looks like a stolen RK66!
Is that the one now in New Zealand? Or is that the one that was claimed at the USGP through the AMA claiming rule and that was auctioned about 6 years ago?
Looks like a young Art Baumann driving... this picture must have been taken in the USA in about 1967?

Interesting.I never knew that one of these beauties had been claimed under that strange rule.Lucky devils I say.
HW