Fernando Alonso and the other World Champions

I created a statistic to compare Fernando Alonso's achievements to those of the other 28 World Champions. I also included Stirling Moss as the best driver to not have won the World Championship. As a basis I took the 115 Grands Prix Alonso has driven so far and listed the achievements of the other Champions in their 115 first Grands Prix. Those who have driven less than 115 Grands Prix are listet with their maximum numbers. I will keep it updated after every Grand Prix.

World Champion titles
1. Juan Manuel Fangio 5
2. Jack Brabham 3
3. Jackie Stewart 3
4. Alberto Ascari 2
5. Jim Clark 2
6. Emerson Fittipaldi 2
7. Michael Schumacher 2
8. Nelson Piquet 2
9. Niki Lauda 2
10. Fernando Alonso 2
11. Graham Hill 2
12. Alain Prost 2
13. Ayrton Senna 2
14. Giuseppe Farina 1
15. Phil Hill 1
16. Denny Hulme 1
17. Jacques Villeneuve 1
18. John Surtees 1
19. Mike Hawthorn 1
20. Keke Rosberg 1
21. James Hunt 1
22. Jochen Rindt 1
23. Damon Hill 1
24. Mario Andretti 1
25. Alan Jones 1
26. Jody Scheckter 1
27. Mika Häkkinen 1
28. Kimi Räikkönen 0
29. Nigel Mansell 0
30. Stirling Moss 0

Wins
1. Michael Schumacher 33
2. Ayrton Senna 30
3. Jackie Stewart 27
4. Alain Prost 27
5. Jim Clark 25
6. Juan Manuel Fangio 24
7. Damon Hill 22
8. Fernando Alonso 19
9. Niki Lauda 17
10. Stirling Moss 16
11. Emerson Fittipaldi 14
12. Graham Hill 14
13. Jack Brabham 14
14. Nelson Piquet 14
15. Alberto Ascari 13
16. Nigel Mansell 13
17. Mario Andretti 12
18. Alan Jones 12
19. Kimi Räikkönen 12
20. Jacques Villeneuve 11
21. James Hunt 10
22. Jody Scheckter 10
23. Mika Häkkinen 10
24. Denny Hulme 8
25. Jochen Rindt 6
26. John Surtees 6
27. Giuseppe Farina 5
28. Keke Rosberg 5
29. Phil Hill 3
30. Mike Hawthorn 3

Pole positions
1. Ayrton Senna 56
2. Jim Clark 33
3. Juan Manuel Fangio 29
4. Niki Lauda 24
5. Damon Hill 20
6. Nelson Piquet 19
7. Michael Schumacher 18
8. Mario Andretti 17
9. Jackie Stewart 17
10. Fernando Alonso 17
11. Stirling Moss 16
12. Alain Prost 16
13. Alberto Ascari 14
14. James Hunt 14
15. Jacques Villeneuve 13
16 Graham Hill 13
17. Jack Brabham 13
18. Kimi Räikkönen 13
19. Mika Häkkinen 13
20. Nigel Mansell 12
21. Jochen Rindt 10
22. John Surtees 8
23. Phil Hill 6
24. Emerson Fittipaldi 6
25. Alan Jones 6
26. Giuseppe Farina 5
27. Keke Rosberg 5
28. Mike Hawthorn 4
29. Jody Scheckter 3
30. Denny Hulme 1

Fastest laps
1. Michael Schumacher 33
2. Jim Clark 28
3. Juan Manuel Fangio 23
4. Kimi Räikkönen 23
5. Stirling Moss 19
6. Damon Hill 19
7. Alain Prost 19
8. Niki Lauda 16
9. Jackie Stewart 15
10. Ayrton Senna 15
11. Nelson Piquet 14
12. Alan Jones 13
13. Alberto Ascari 12
14. John Surtees 11
15. Fernando Alonso 11
16. Mario Andretti 10
17. Graham Hill 10
18. Nigel Mansell 10
19. Jack Brabham 10
20. Jacques Villeneuve 9
21. Denny Hulme 9
22. James Hunt 8
23. Mika Häkkinen 8
24. Phil Hill 6
25. Mike Hawthorn 6
26. Emerson Fittipaldi 6
27. Giuseppe Farina 5
28. Jody Scheckter 5
29. Jochen Rindt 3
30. Keke Rosberg 3

Points
1. Michael Schumacher 520
2. Fernando Alonso 508
3. Ayrton Senna 435
4. Kimi Räikkönen 406
5. Alain Prost 391,5
6. Jackie Stewart 360
7. Damon Hill 360
8. Niki Lauda 295,5
9. Graham Hill 281
10. Juan Manuel Fangio 277,64
11. Emerson Fittipaldi 275
12. Jim Clark 274
13. Jody Scheckter 255
14. Nelson Piquet 251
15. Jack Brabham 251
16. Denny Hulme 248
17. Mika Häkkinen 228
18. Jacques Villeneuve 213
19. Nigel Mansell 208
20. Alan Jones 206
21. Stirling Moss 186,64
22. John Surtees 180
23. James Hunt 179
24. Mario Andretti 176
25. Keke Rosberg 159,5
26. Alberto Ascari 140,14
27. Mike Hawthorn 127,64
28. Giuseppe Farina 127,33
29. Jochen Rindt 109
30. Phil Hill 98

Grands Prix finished in points
1. Michael Schumacher 78
2. Fernando Alonso 77
3. Ayrton Senna 67
4. Kimi Räikkönen 67
5. Alain Prost 66
6. Denny Hulme 61
7. Jackie Stewart 57
8. Damon Hill 56
9. Emerson Fittipaldi 54
10. Jody Scheckter 53
11. Graham Hill 53
12. Jack Brabham 51
13. Niki Lauda 51
14. Mika Häkkinen 50
15. Nelson Piquet 47
16. Nigel Mansell 44
17. Jacques Villeneuve 44
18. Juan Manuel Fangio 43
19. Jim Clark 40
20. John Surtees 40
21. Alan Jones 39
22. Keke Rosberg 38
23. Mario Andretti 37
24. Stirling Moss 35
25. James Hunt 35
26. Mike Hawthorn 28
27. Giuseppe Farina 25
28. Alberto Ascari 23
29. Jochen Rindt 21
30. Phil Hill 20

Podiums
1. Michael Schumacher 64
2. Ayrton Senna 58
3. Alain Prost 53
4. Fernando Alonso 49
5. Jackie Stewart 43
6. Damon Hill 42
7. Kimi Räikkönen 42
8. Niki Lauda 39
9. Graham Hill 36
10. Juan Manuel Fangio 35
11. Emerson Fittipaldi 34
12. Jody Scheckter 33
13. Denny Hulme 33
14. Jim Clark 32
15. Nelson Piquet 31
16. Jack Brabham 29
17. Mika Häkkinen 28
18. Nigel Mansell 25
19. Stirling Moss 24
20. John Surtees 24
21. Alan Jones 24
22. James Hunt 23
23. Jaques Villeneuve 23
24. Giuseppe Farina 20
25. Mike Hawthorn 18
26. Mario Andretti 18
27. Alberto Ascari 17
28. Keke Rosberg 17
29. Phil Hill 16
30. Jochen Rindt 13

Second position
1. Fernando Alonso 18
2. Michael Schumacher 18
3. Ayrton Senna 17
4. Kimi Räikkönen 16
5. Damon Hill 15
6. Niki Lauda 15
7. Graham Hill 15
8. Jody Scheckter 14
9. Emerson Fittipaldi 13
10. Alain Prost 13
11. Jackie Stewart 11
12. Juan Manuel Fangio 10
13. John Surtees 10
14. Nelson Piquet 10
15. Giuseppe Farina 9
16. Mike Hawthorn 9
17. Denny Hulme 9
18. Jack Brabham 9
19. Keke Rosberg 8
20. Alan Jones 7
21. James Hunt 6
22. Jacques Villeneuve 5
23. Phil Hill 5
24. Stirling Moss 5
25. Mika Häkkinen 5
26. Alberto Ascari 4
27. Nigel Mansell 4
28. Jochen Rindt 3
29. Mario Andretti 2
30. Jim Clark 1

Third position
1. Denis Hulme 16
2. Kimi Räikkönen 14
3. Mika Häkkinen 13
4. Michael Schumacher 13
5. Alain Prost 13
6. Fernando Alonso 12
7. Ayrton Senna 11
8. Jody Scheckter 9
9. Phil Hill 8
10. John Surtees 8
11. Nigel Mansell 8
12. Emerson Fittipaldi 7
13. Graham Hill 7
14. James Hunt 7
15. Nelson Piquet 7
16. Jacques Villeneuve 7
17. Niki Lauda 7
18. Giuseppe Farina 6
19. Mike Hawthorn 6
20. Jim Clark 6
21. Jack Brabham 6
22. Damon Hill 5
23. Jackie Stewart 5
24. Alan Jones 5
25. Jochen Rindt 4
26. Mario Andretti 4
27. Keke Rosberg 4
28. Stirling Moss 3
29. Juan Manuel Fangio 1
30. Alberto Ascari 0

Second and third position
1. Michael Schumacher 31
2. Fernando Alonso 30
3. Kimi Räikkönen 30
4. Ayrton Senna 28
5. Alain Prost 26
6. Denny Hulme 25
7. Jody Scheckter 23
8. Niki Lauda 22
9. Graham Hill 22
10. Damon Hill 20
11. Emerson Fittipaldi 20
12. John Surtees 18
13. Mika Häkkinen 18
14. Nelson Piquet 17
15. Jackie Stewart 16
16. Giuseppe Farina 15
17. Mike Hawthorn 15
18. Jack Brabham 15
19. Phil Hill 13
20. James Hunt 13
21. Jacques Villeneuve 12
22. Alan Jones 12
23. Keke Rosberg 12
24. Nigel Mansell12
25. Juan Manuel Fangio 11
26. Stirling Moss 8
27. Jochen Rindt 7
28. Jim Clark 7
29. Mario Andretti 6
30. Alberto Ascari 4

Kilometers lead
1. Ayrton Senna 10747
2. Jim Clark 10110
3. Juan Manuel Fangio 9316
4. Jackie Stewart 9191
5. Michael Schumacher 8459
6. Alain Prost 6531
7. Stirling Moss 6369
8. Damon Hill 6310
9. Alberto Ascari 5902
10. Nelson Piquet 5855
11. Niki Lauda 5580
12. Fernando Alonso 5548
13. Graham Hill 4743
14. Jack Brabham 4493
15. Nigel Mansell 4049
16. Kimi Räikkönen 3612
17. Mario Andretti 3573
18. Mika Häkkinen 3370
19. James Hunt 3363
20. Jacques Villeneuve 2965
21. Jody Scheckter 2855
22. Alan Jones 2847
23. Giuseppe Farina 2651
24. Emerson Fittipaldi 2235
25. Keke Rosberg 2165
26. John Surtees 2123
27. Denny Hulme 1914
28. Jochen Rindt 1898
29. Mike Hawthorn 1635
30. Phil Hill 1532

Grands Prix lead
1. Ayrton Senna 67
2. Michael Schumacher 54
3. Jackie Stewart 51
4. Fernando Alonso 48
5. Damon Hill 45
6. Alain Prost 45
7. Jim Clark 43
8. Kimi Räikkönen 40
9. Juan Manuel Fangio 38
10. Nelson Piquet 38
11. Graham Hill 32
12. Stirling Moss 31
13. Niki Lauda 30
14. Jack Brabham 27
15. Mika Häkkinen 25
16. James Hunt 24
17. Alan Jones 24
18. Nigel Mansell 24
19. Jody Scheckter 23
20. Mario Andretti 22
21. Alberto Ascari 21
22. Jacques Villeneuve 20
23. Keke Rosberg 20
24. Emerson Fittipaldi 18
25. John Surtees 17
26. Denis Hulme 17
27. Giuseppe Farina 14
28. Mike Hawthorn 12
29. Jochen Rindt 12
30. Phil Hill 10

Lead throughtout a Grand Prix
1. Ayrton Senna 17
2. Jim Clark 13
3. Jackie Stewart 11
4. Alberto Ascari 7
5. Niki Lauda 6
6. Juan Manuel Fangio 5
7. Stirling Moss 5
8. Jack Brabham 5
9. Mario Andretti 5
10. Michael Schumacher 5
11. Damon Hill 4
12. Nelson Piquet 4
13. Alain Prost 3
14. Kimi Räikkönen 3
15. Jody Scheckter 3
16. Mika Häkkinen 3
17. James Hunt 2
18. Fernando Alonso 2
19. Alan Jones 2
20. Nigel Mansell 2
21. Jacques Villeneuve 1
22. Emerson Fittipaldi 1
23. Graham Hill 1
24. Mike Hawthorn 1
25. Keke Rosberg 1
26. Giuseppe Farina 0
27. Phil Hill 0
28. Jochen Rindt 0
29. John Surtees 0
30. Denny Hulme 0

Pole position and win
1. Ayrton Senna 25
2. Juan Manuel Fangio 15
3. Jim Clark 15
4. Fernando Alonso 11
5. Alberto Ascari 9
6. Niki Lauda 9
7. Alain Prost 9
8. Michael Schumacher 9
9. Stirling Moss 8
10. Mario Andretti 8
11. Jackie Stewart 8
12. Damon Hill 7
13. James Hunt 7
14. Jack Brabham 6
15. Mika Häkkinen 6
16. Jacques Villeneuve 5
17. Emerson Fittipaldi 4
18. John Surtees 4
19. Nelson Piquet 4
20. Graham Hill 4
21. Nigel Mansell 4
22. Kimi Räikkönen 4
23. Jochen Rindt 3
24. Phil Hill 2
25. Alan Jones 2
26. Jody Scheckter 2
27. Giuseppe Farina 1
28. Mike Hawthorn 1
29. Denny Hulme 0
30. Keke Rosberg 0

Win and fastest lap
1. Michael Schumacher 20
2. Jim Clark 18
3. Alain Prost 13
4. Juan Manuel Fangio 12
5. Jackie Stewart 12
6. Damon Hill 10
7. Alberto Ascari 9
8. Ayrton Senna 9
9. Niki Lauda 8
10. Stirling Moss 7
11. Nelson Piquet 6
12. Kimi Räikkönen 6
13. Mika Häkkinen 6
14. Graham Hill 5
15. Alan Jones 5
16. Fernando Alonso 5
17. Nigel Mansell 5
18. Jack Brabham 5
19. Jacques Villeneuve 4
20. John Surtees 4
21. Mario Andretti 4
22. Giuseppe Farina 2
23. Emerson Fittipaldi 2
24. Jochen Rindt 2
25. James Hunt 2
26. Phil Hill 1
27. Mike Hawthorn 1
28. Jody Scheckter 1
29. Denny Hulme 1
30. Keke Rosberg 1

Hat trick (pole position, fastest lap and win)
1. Jim Clark 11
2. Juan Manuel Fangio 9
3. Alberto Ascari 7
4. Ayrton Senna 7
5. Michael Schumacher 6
6. Damon Hill 5
7. Alain Prost 5
8. Mika Häkkinen 5
9. Stirling Moss 4
10. Jackie Stewart 4
11. John Surtees 3
12. Niki Lauda 3
13. Jack Brabham 3
14. Nelson Piquet 3
15. Fernando Alonso 3
16. Jacques Villeneuve 2
17. James Hunt 2
18. Alan Jones 2
19. Graham Hill 2
20. Mario Andretti 2
21. Giuseppe Farina 1
22. Phill Hill 1
23. Mike Hawthorn 1
24. Jochen Rindt 1
25. Kimi Räikkönen 1
26. Nigel Mansell 0
27. Emerson Fittipaldi 0
28. Jody Scheckter 0
29. Keke Rosberg 0
30. Denny Hulme 0

Chelem (pole position, fastest lap, win and lead throughout)
1. Jim Clark 8
2. Alberto Ascari 5
3. Jackie Stewart 4
4. Ayrton Senna 4
5. Nelson Piquet 3
6. Juan Manuel Fangio 2
7. Michael Schumacher 2
8. Jack Brabham 2
9. Mika Häkkinen 2
10. Mike Hawthorn 1
11. Damon Hill 1
12. Stirling Moss 1
13. Niki Lauda 1
14. Nigel Mansell 0
15. Giuseppe Farina 0
16. Phil Hill 0
17. Jochen Rindt 0
18. James Hunt 0
19. John Surtees 0
20. Denny Hulme 0
21. Jody Scheckter 0
22. Keke Rosberg 0
23. Fernando Alonso 0
24. Alan Jones 0
25. Mario Andretti 0
26. Kimi Räikkönen 0
27. Emerson Fittipaldi 0
28. Jacques Villeneuve 0
29. Graham Hill 0
30. Alain Prost 0

First row
1. Ayrton Senna 69
2. Juan Manuel Fangio 48
3. Jim Clark 48
4. Damon Hill 47
5. Jackie Stewart 42
6. Graham Hill 42
7. Michael Schumacher 40
8. Stirling Moss 37
9. Alain Prost 37
10. Jack Brabham 37
11. Nelson Piquet 34
12. Niki Lauda 30
13. Nigel Mansell 30
14. Fernando Alonso 28
15. Giuseppe Farina 27
16. Alberto Ascari 25
17. James Hunt 24
18. Jacques Villeneuve 23
19. Mario Andretti 23
20. Denny Hulme 23
21. Kimi Räikkönen 23
22. John Surtees 21
23. Jochen Rindt 18
24. Mika Häkkinen 18
25. Mike Hawthorn 17
26. Emerson Fittipaldi 16
27. Jody Scheckter 13
28. Alan Jones 13
29. Keke Rosberg 10
30. Phil Hill 9

Grands Prix
1. Graham Hill 115
2. Jack Brabham 115
3. Emerson Fittipaldi 115
4. Niki Lauda 115
5. Mario Andretti 115
6. Nelson Piquet 115
7. Alan Jones 115
8. Alain Prost 115
9. Nigel Mansell 115
10. Ayrton Senna 115
11. Michael Schumacher 115
12. Mika Häkkinen 115
13. Damon Hill 115
14. Jacques Villeneuve 115
15. Kimi Räikkönen 115
16. Fernando Alonso 115
17. Keke Rosberg 114
18. Denny Hulme 112
19. Jody Scheckter 112
20. John Surtees 111
21. Jackie Stewart 99
22. James Hunt 92
23. Jim Clark 72
24. Stirling Moss 66
25. Jochen Rindt 60
26. Juan Manuel Fangio 51
27. Phil Hill 47
28. Mike Hawthorn 45
29. Giuseppe Farina 33
30. Alberto Ascari 32

looking at these stats one can only say Alonso's are kinda impressive considdering the fact he has some years to go.

That's a lot of work.

I don't think Alonso will stick around for another 115 GPs, but he could do some 70-80 more. Do you think his stats and averages will improve or not?

The raw figures definatelly will improve, the averages won't i think. He already had some great season 05 & 06... oh yeah.. 07 wasn't to bad for his stats either.

The really sad thing is that if he'd been able to control his emotions he would already have three WDCs and currently be sitting in a top seat taking him further up those lists!

Originally posted by Atreiu
That's a lot of work.

Thanks for the appreciation, it took some hours.

Originally posted by Atreiu
Do you think his stats and averages will improve or not?

I think they will improve, but that will depend also upon the fact whether he can get a competitive car again and also when. Time will tell.

Originally posted by Ivan
Senna has 3 titles not 2.

And Michael Schumacher has 7. Read the thread.

Originally posted by Jacquesback


And Michael Schumacher has 7. Read the thread.

and mansell has one not zero.. but hey: great job by topicstarter

Originally posted by Jacquesback
The really sad thing is that if he'd been able to control his emotions he would already have three WDCs and currently be sitting in a top seat taking him further up those lists!

He would have been out of McLaren sooner or later anyway, regardless his emotions. Ron Dennis ousted Lauda when he secured Prost and did the same with him after securing Senna. Now that he has his golden child there is no need for Alonso. But wait, what happens if Mercedes takes over McLaren and oust Ron? Perhaps Ferrari poaches Hamilton then and Mercedes hunts Alonso? Could happen as soon as 2009. Ron to retire in 2008 you know, or to be retired. Who knows? Certainly he is no more untouchable within the team.

yeah...I deleted it.

Titles are overatted by themselfs, team+driver =title

However quality of drives-race to win, not race to collect points, but actual quality of drives, races that wow'd you, mean more, much more subjective take. These comparisons take alot longer to write up.

Schumi's Hungary 1998 drive for example, or his Spa 1995 drives is what legends are made of, Spain 94-stuck in 5th gear etc, list goes on.

Schumi's 7 titles, great work with ferrari, they were a broken team, fought it out, stuck by them, loyal to his team, did drives to win, never hid behind excuses or blame the team like Alonso did to Renault and Mclaren, and he didn't leave the team for another team, fail at that team, then come back-Alonso, he's a very good driver, and was very fast in the renault opt suspension package michelin , we won't see that Alonso ever again, but he'll try and get somewhere near it, without those those mass dampers, he lost even more. Hamilton a rookie beat him in 2007. That's his career, without Michelin, and that means more then his 2 titles, the way he lost and the way he won, Pat Symonds had to speak out and say the renault was the best car in 2005, because Alonso didn't attack all the time, didn't mean he couldn't, when the won the title, he made it out as if he'd had done some Michael Schumacher season, putting his team down, saying it wasn't the best car, Pat Symonds thought this disrespectted the team, no great driver puts down his machinery like that, it's why I instantly disliked him, not respective to his team, as long as he gets the title, he doesn't care, he's just after tha stats, yence his 2 titles are nothing compared to say Senna's first 2 titles.

It's a different era, titles mean less to the driver now, what you must do to impress fans is do Schumacher like Brazil 2006 drives, China 2006 drives, and impress rivals with inlaps that even his rivals called fantastic-Imola 2006, those inlaps MS produced to outflank Alonso, Pat Symonds described as fantastic, which is why just collecting points in this rubbish points system which rewards the winner less, means titles belong much more to the team's these days, but with effect, MS worked with a broken ferrari team to make them winners, and sponsored everyone through tough times to reap rewards. He didn't go running off to a rival team because his own team didn't look like winning next year, Alonso is at best trying to be Fangio, go whereever the best car is. MS left a winning team-Benetton to a broken Ferrari team, it's a much bigger statement, ride out the lows in tough times, build your team, live up small successes like Spain 96, Monza pole, then go for the attack later, and if fail like 1997, fight harder in 98, and if get close and fail, try harder-1999, and if fail and break a leg, don't give up, because 2000 you finish business. That's what Alonso is lacking, paranoid in not having everything in place straight away. He should of stayed at Mclaren and beat Hamilton, everyone was enjoying his battl in 2007, if he wanted to prove a point and impress fans, go back to Mclaren and win the title, this year he made less interesting simply by giving up, that's what has marked his career post michelin opt suspension mass damper package performances lol

somehow i knew this was gonna end up in an Alonso hatefest

Originally posted by Bernd Rosemeyer


He would have been out of McLaren sooner or later anyway, regardless his emotions. Ron Dennis ousted Lauda when he secured Prost and did the same with him after securing Senna. Now that he has his golden child there is no need for Alonso. But wait, what happens if Mercedes takes over McLaren and oust Ron? Perhaps Ferrari poaches Hamilton then and Mercedes hunts Alonso? Could happen as soon as 2009. Ron to retire in 2008 you know, or to be retired. Who knows? Certainly he is no more untouchable within the team.

Lauda retired of his own volition and he beat Prost to the title in '84.
Prost voluntarily left McLaren when the competitive environment became too much for him after Senna joined the team.
I'm afraid this post has shown your bias towards Alonso and against Lewis. Try to remain objective as this can be a good thread.

Alonso's stats are pretty impressive, considering that he had one full season at Minardi, with no chance of scoring a point at all (not many WDCs competed in such a bad team).

I woder how many points he would have if, let's say, he had started racing with Benetton in 2001. Then he would have scored in some races in '01 for sure, and wouldn't have been a test driver in 2002 (when Renault was already 4th in the WCC).

Actually his first points came only in his 3rd season in F1, 2 years after his first start!

Originally posted by Bernd Rosemeyer
He would have been out of McLaren sooner or later anyway, regardless his emotions. Ron Dennis ousted Lauda when he secured Prost and did the same with him after securing Senna. Now that he has his golden child there is no need for Alonso. But wait, what happens if Mercedes takes over McLaren and oust Ron? Perhaps Ferrari poaches Hamilton then and Mercedes hunts Alonso? Could happen as soon as 2009. Ron to retire in 2008 you know, or to be retired. Who knows? Certainly he is no more untouchable within the team.

I was just having a conversation about what you just said about Ron getting rid of drivers...but do know this as certain that Ron is out the door this year?

Originally posted by Ivan

I was just having a conversation about what you just said about Ron getting rid of drivers...but do know this as certain that Ron is out the door this year?

don't think so, though i remember an article from some days ago telling he wants another WCC/WDC before he calls it a day. So if Lewis makes it, he might just leave...

Yeah I don't think Ron is leaving either, for some time yet.

Bernd
good thread...that took some research

Nicely done, BR. It makes a change from looking at percentages (though they also tell a story).
I am amazed at the low number of hat-tricks. I seem to remember more, but clearly memory fails!

Originally posted by fnz
but hey: great job by topicstarter

Thank you, it's very much appreciated.

Btw when drivers have the same numbers, and that goes for all statistics, I listed them in the order how fast they achieved them. Example: I put in brackets the number of races when they just scored their third title, their second title, or the first, for those who scored only one. In other words, those who needed less races to score an identical number of titles, wins or whatever, are listed higher.

World Champion titles
1. Juan Manuel Fangio 5 (47)
2. Jack Brabham 3 (78)
3. Jackie Stewart 3 (98)
4. Alberto Ascari 2 (28)
5. Jim Clark 2 (49)
6. Emerson Fittipaldi 2 (57)
7. Michael Schumacher 2 (67)
8. Nelson Piquet 2 (78)
9. Niki Lauda 2 (84)
10. Fernando Alonso 2 (87)
11. Graham Hill 2 (102)
12. Alain Prost 2 (105)
13. Ayrton Senna 2 (109)
14. Giuseppe Farina 1 (6)
15. Phil Hill 1 (26)
16. Denny Hulme 1 (26)
17. Jacques Villeneuve 1 (33)
18. John Surtees 1 (41)
19. Mike Hawthorn 1 (47)
20. Keke Rosberg 1 (51)
21. James Hunt 1 (52)
22. Jochen Rindt 1 (60)
23. Damon Hill 1 (67)
24. Mario Andretti 1 (79)
25. Alan Jones 1 (80)
26. Jody Scheckter 1 (97)
27. Mika Häkkinen 1 (112)
28. Kimi Räikkönen 0 (121)
29. Nigel Mansell 0 (176)
30. Stirling Moss 0 (never)

If you have any question(s) regarding one of the statistics, please don't hesitate to ask.

Originally posted by SeanValen
Titles are overatted by themselfs, team+driver =title

However quality of drives-race to win, not race to collect points, but actual quality of drives, races that wow'd you, mean more, much more subjective take. These comparisons take alot longer to write up.

That sounds interesting. Could you start a thread about this when time is available to you? As it is, this thread is about raw numbers, the interpretation must be done by everybody for themselves. We can discuss it here though.

Originally posted by SeanValen
yence his 2 titles are nothing compared to say Senna's first 2 titles.

Could you please enlighten me? I don't see a difference. Senna had the best car and so did Alonso. Both delivered the titles. Even Stevens for me. Alonso needed 87 Grands Prix to score two titles, Senna 109. That's the reason why Alonso is listed above Senna in the table so far.

Originally posted by Ivan
...but do know this as certain that Ron is out the door this year?

No. All I can do is speculate. What I do know is, that Mercedes is trying to take control of McLaren, but Ron's price is not acceptable to them. So they don't support his road car ambitions any more, because they feel, without the road car buiseness, McLaren is just a race team, and has less value. We will see how this power struggle ends, but in the end, Dennis can simply not win against such a corporation. He will have to surrender sooner or later, if only because of age.

Pole positions
1. Ayrton Senna 56


....in 115 GPs

Originally posted by BMW_F1
Pole positions
1. Ayrton Senna 56


....in 115 GPs

True. That's amazing, isn't it? Almost every second race he started from pole.

Originally posted by SeanValen
Titles are overatted by themselfs, team+driver =title

However quality of drives-race to win, not race to collect points, but actual quality of drives, races that wow'd you, mean more, much more subjective take. These comparisons take alot longer to write up.

Schumi's Hungary 1998 drive for example, or his Spa 1995 drives is what legends are made of, Spain 94-stuck in 5th gear etc, list goes on.

Schumi's 7 titles, great work with ferrari, they were a broken team, fought it out, stuck by them, loyal to his team, did drives to win, never hid behind excuses or blame the team like Alonso did to Renault and Mclaren, and he didn't leave the team for another team, fail at that team, then come back-Alonso, he's a very good driver, and was very fast in the renault opt suspension package michelin , we won't see that Alonso ever again, but he'll try and get somewhere near it, without those those mass dampers, he lost even more. Hamilton a rookie beat him in 2007. That's his career, without Michelin, and that means more then his 2 titles, the way he lost and the way he won, Pat Symonds had to speak out and say the renault was the best car in 2005, because Alonso didn't attack all the time, didn't mean he couldn't, when the won the title, he made it out as if he'd had done some Michael Schumacher season, putting his team down, saying it wasn't the best car, Pat Symonds thought this disrespectted the team, no great driver puts down his machinery like that, it's why I instantly disliked him, not respective to his team, as long as he gets the title, he doesn't care, he's just after tha stats, yence his 2 titles are nothing compared to say Senna's first 2 titles.

It's a different era, titles mean less to the driver now, what you must do to impress fans is do Schumacher like Brazil 2006 drives, China 2006 drives, and impress rivals with inlaps that even his rivals called fantastic-Imola 2006, those inlaps MS produced to outflank Alonso, Pat Symonds described as fantastic, which is why just collecting points in this rubbish points system which rewards the winner less, means titles belong much more to the team's these days, but with effect, MS worked with a broken ferrari team to make them winners, and sponsored everyone through tough times to reap rewards. He didn't go running off to a rival team because his own team didn't look like winning next year, Alonso is at best trying to be Fangio, go whereever the best car is. MS left a winning team-Benetton to a broken Ferrari team, it's a much bigger statement, ride out the lows in tough times, build your team, live up small successes like Spain 96, Monza pole, then go for the attack later, and if fail like 1997, fight harder in 98, and if get close and fail, try harder-1999, and if fail and break a leg, don't give up, because 2000 you finish business. That's what Alonso is lacking, paranoid in not having everything in place straight away. He should of stayed at Mclaren and beat Hamilton, everyone was enjoying his battl in 2007, if he wanted to prove a point and impress fans, go back to Mclaren and win the title, this year he made less interesting simply by giving up, that's what has marked his career post michelin opt suspension mass damper package performances lol

kind of schumy fanboy affected by schumy defeat

It would be informative to know the number of mechanical failures suffered by each. The stats are rather biased towards the new drivers who have one breakdown a year due to today's regulations. If you drive one of the top two cars today, you really should be averaging at least 8 points per GP. In the old days you would need to win pretty much every grand prix to acheive those figures. Disappointingly Alonso has only managed to win one in six. That's pretty unimpressive next to the greats I would have thought.

Originally posted by airwise
The stats are rather biased towards the new drivers who have one breakdown a year due to today's regulations.

Yes, that is true.

Originally posted by Bernd Rosemeyer


Yes, that is true.

Can I suggest (only if you want to of course!) wins per start and points per finish (based on today's scoring system for simplicity)? I think it would give a very different perspective myself.

Grands Prix finished in points
18. Juan Manuel Fangio 43

...in 47 races !!

Originally posted by Youichi
Grands Prix finished in points
18. Juan Manuel Fangio 43

...in 47 races !!

Yes. In the old days, when the team leader retired, the second driver had to drive to the pit and yield the car to him. The points were devided between them.

Originally posted by airwise
Disappointingly Alonso has only managed to win one in six. That's pretty unimpressive next to the greats I would have thought.

"unimpressive"? Maybe, still beter than most of all other f1 drivers in history

Originally posted by airwise


Can I suggest (only if you want to of course!) wins per start and points per finish (based on today's scoring system for simplicity)? I think it would give a very different perspective myself.

Look here: Wins percentage

And here: Points average

The problem with individual stats in F1 is that they're always apples and oranges since the car has so much to do with success. If Shumi had driven for Minardi his whole career, his stats would be as follows... 0 titles, 0 wins, 0 poles. Sure, that's an extreme example but it makes the point.

That said, good work compiling these stats. It does show that Alonso has a long time to build on his stats to date. Whether he can get in the right car is the question.

Better make such comparison for Hamilton. 8 wins in 28 races. What position would this give him? And from here on let's see, how far up or down will he move or stay.

Originally posted by sopa
Better make such comparison for Hamilton. 8 wins in 28 races. What position would this give him? And from here on let's see, how far up or down will he move or stay.

That would be interesting. Perhaps you can do it? As it is, I chose Alonso, because he is the most successfull current driver. That is a fact, like him or not.

Should this be in the nostalgy forum?

can we really compare drivers from different eras?

Prost and Schumacher for example found themselves for at least 1/2 of their career in competitive cars. Fangio has always had the competitive car. Jacques Villenueve only had 2 seasons in a winning car....

Maybe it would be better to compare only for the period they had competitive cars, then the stats will be more meaningful

So I would certainly take these things into account as well... but I am afraid you will be busy for 3 days in a row.

I do appreciate your effort though

Btw when drivers have the same numbers, and that goes for all statistics, I listed them in the order how fast they achieved them. Example: I put in brackets the number of races when they just scored their third title, their second title, or the first, for those who scored only one. In other words, those who needed less races to score an identical number of titles, wins or whatever, are listed higher.

World Champion titles
1. Juan Manuel Fangio 5 (47)
2. Jack Brabham 3 (78)
3. Jackie Stewart 3 (98)
4. Alberto Ascari 2 (28)
5. Jim Clark 2 (49)
6. Emerson Fittipaldi 2 (57)
7. Michael Schumacher 2 (67)
8. Nelson Piquet 2 (78)
9. Niki Lauda 2 (84)
10. Fernando Alonso 2 (87)
11. Graham Hill 2 (102)
12. Alain Prost 2 (105)
13. Ayrton Senna 2 (109)
14. Giuseppe Farina 1 (6)
15. Phil Hill 1 (26)
16. Denny Hulme 1 (26)
17. Jacques Villeneuve 1 (33)
18. John Surtees 1 (41)
19. Mike Hawthorn 1 (47)
20. Keke Rosberg 1 (51)
21. James Hunt 1 (52)
22. Jochen Rindt 1 (60)
23. Damon Hill 1 (67)
24. Mario Andretti 1 (79)
25. Alan Jones 1 (80)
26. Jody Scheckter 1 (97)
27. Mika Häkkinen 1 (112)
28. Kimi Räikkönen 0 (121)
29. Nigel Mansell 0 (176)
30. Stirling Moss 0 (never)

If you have any question(s) regarding one of the statistics, please don't hesitate to ask.

You have put a lot of work into this, great job

I'm a little confused about the number of titles for some of these though:

Michael Schumacher: 7 (1994, 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004)
Nelson Piquet: 3 (1981, 1983, 1987)
Niki Lauda: 3 (1975, 1977, 1984)
Alain Prost: 4 (1985, 1986, 1989, 1993)
Ayrton Senna: 3 (1988, 1990, 1991)
Mika Hakkinen: 2 (1998, 1999)

Originally posted by elia37



You have put a lot of work into this, great job

I'm a little confused about the number of titles for some of these though:

Michael Schumacher: 7 (1994, 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004)
Nelson Piquet: 3 (1981, 1983, 1987)
Niki Lauda: 3 (1975, 1977, 1984)
Alain Prost: 4 (1985, 1986, 1989, 1993)
Ayrton Senna: 3 (1988, 1990, 1991)
Mika Hakkinen: 2 (1998, 1999)

on the top of my head looks correct to me (... no?)

Originally posted by elia37



You have put a lot of work into this, great job

I'm a little confused about the number of titles for some of these though:

Michael Schumacher: 7 (1994, 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004)
Nelson Piquet: 3 (1981, 1983, 1987)
Niki Lauda: 3 (1975, 1977, 1984)
Alain Prost: 4 (1985, 1986, 1989, 1993)
Ayrton Senna: 3 (1988, 1990, 1991)
Mika Hakkinen: 2 (1998, 1999)

Unless I misunderstand, the statistics are for 115 races, so the statistics show what for example Schumacher had achieved after 115 races.

Only small misleading thing, the 1955 season was only 8 races long, so Fangia had a lot more seasons under his belt after 115 races.

Originally posted by DarthWillie


Unless I misunderstand, the statistics are for 115 races, so the statistics show what for example Schumacher had achieved after 115 races.

Only small misleading thing, the 1955 season was only 8 races long, so Fangia had a lot more seasons under his belt after 115 races.

Friday night brain fade, thank you

Well done MY NAMESAKE ! Good work and as expected shows F A in a high position .

Originally posted by Bernd Rosemeyer


Look here: Wins percentage

And here: Points average

Thanks Bernd

Fun link.If you could post the retirements from the same link that should put some of the others into perspective. Many of those guys had circa 50% retirement rates. That kind of puts the modern pilots like Raikonen and Alonso in a different light.

Originally posted by glorius&victorius
Maybe it would be better to compare only for the period they had competitive cars, then the stats will be more meaningful

Nice idea, but i think it ll be kinda tough for everyone to agree on the definition of a competitive car..

Originally posted by airwise
IDisappointingly Alonso has only managed to win one in six. Thats pretty unimpressive next to the greats I would have thought.

Hes only ever driven a legit consistent race winning car for 3 season out 7 and a large part of his career was against a 7 time wc in a great car. Schumacher for example spent a large part of his career against much lower opposition. From 1994- 2005 Schumacher had it pretty easy. Once Alonso got himself srrong machinary, Schumacher never again won a title. hes lucky Alonso didnt enter F1 in a Mclaren.

Points
1. Michael Schumacher 520
2. Fernando Alonso 508

This is the statistic that best displays Alonsos talent. His efficiency and ability to maximise is second to none and I think arguably better than all. Compare the level of talent Alonso raced against in his first 115 gps and then to Schumacher for a real perspective of those points totals.

Must be nice to have so much free time.

Originally posted by KERS
This is the statistic that best displays Alonsos talent. His efficiency and ability to maximise is second to none and I think arguably better than all. Compare the level of talent Alonso raced against in his first 115 gps and then to Schumacher for a real perspective of those points totals.

Compare Hamilton to both and they look absolutely ordinary. :

Those are some impressive numbers. Very fun to speculate off of them. In my case, I think it makes Fangio, IMHO the greatest Grand Prix driver ever, look even better in some ways than I thought (he has less than half the 115 races to make his stats).

OTOH,

Originally written by my good friend Sam Clemens
There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
Compare Hamilton to both and they look absolutely ordinary. :

And Jaques Villenueve. Its what happens when you start your career in a front line car.

All this shows that statistics can prove anything One entry that has me baffled is Stirling Moss in last place-0(never) when then rest show number of points.I would rather see all drivers who have won a race included.