Kimi vs. Massa scoreboard vol. 3

New year. New thread. Similar poll. Get to it.

Someone had to start this, as the F60 thread is getting rather messy with all the Kimi vs. Massa talk.

As a Kimi fan and after last year I want him to succeed with the new rules but Massa has proved to me that he really wants to win the WDC. As such, it could go either way but as long as Ferrari beat everyone else, I'm not bothered.

Kimi really has patern going on, so as last year was bad this has to be good. But really it could turn either way

either way

btw, where is the option "It'll be close fight but it will be Mass delivering in the end"?

Originally posted by ZZMS
either way

btw, where is the option "It'll be close fight but it will be Mass delivering in the end"?

Never mind, these FM X KR polls are aways like that.

The diference is that this year the usual suspect didn't have the b***s to start it.

Originally posted by saudoso
Never mind, these FM X KR polls are aways like that.

The diference is that this year the usual suspect didn't have the balls to start it.

This time the options should be reversed, because Massa finished ahead. So I was waiting for months someone from the other side to start it.

Originally posted by ZZMS
either way

btw, where is the option "It'll be close fight but it will be Mass delivering in the end"?

Sorry - I'm new to doing polls (honestly wasn't even sure if it should have one) and I was just copying from last years poll with minor tweaks - didn't mean to leave out that option, can it be fixed? Edit = notice only mods can change a poll - I would add a question with: It'll be close fight, but Massa is the one who delivers in the end. (Fair play to all then.)

I started it because I was tired of reading in the F60 thread how people should take the Kimi vs. Massa talk to another thread...no one seemed to start one...so I did.

None of above ...It'll be close fight.

Is there gonna be poll every year they drive together in Ferrari? What is so special about this partnership,that it needs a poll third time.We should just hope,that Ferrari delivers a monster and both will crush the Mclaren boys

Originally posted by rce
Edit = notice only mods can change a poll - I would add a question with: It'll be close fight, but Massa is the one who delivers in the end.

Added

2007 thread
Kimi is about to start dominating Massa. 158 votes (39.90%)
It'll be a close fight, but Kimi makes the results. 106 votes (26.77%)
Massa will come back, show his speed and beat Kimi. 77 votes (19.44%)
It'll be close fight either way. 55 votes (13.89%)

2008 thread
Kimi has grown as champion and dominates Massa. 93 votes (45.81%)
It'll be close fight, but Kimi is the one who deliveres in the end, again. 69 votes (33.99%)
It could turn out either way. 22 votes (10.84%)
Massa has learned from his mistakes and beats Kimi convincingly! 19 votes (9.36%)

2009 thread - so FAR!
It could turn out either way. 8 votes (29.63%)
Massa has learned from his mistakes and wins the championship. 5 votes (18.52%)
Kimi has learned from his mistakes, dominates Massa and wins the championship. 5 votes (18.52%)
It'll be close fight, but Kimi is the one who delivers in the end. 5 votes (18.52%)
Both of them have a horrible year, F60 sucks & [insert team/driver] easily wins the championships. 4 votes (14.81%)
It'll be close fight, but Massa is the one who delivers in the end. 0 votes (0%)

In bold is the winner for 2007 and '08.



The forum was spot on in 2007, but '08, well the voters were wrong.

In 2007 Kimi wasnt dominating Massa either.

They are simply very well matched but not many will accept it still. This year it will be a close call as well, it could go either way. And no it's not about the car, if a car isnt to your liking you adapt and still go fast.

Originally posted by D.M.N.
2007 thread
Kimi is about to start dominating Massa. 158 votes (39.90%)
It'll be a close fight, but Kimi makes the results. 106 votes (26.77%)
Massa will come back, show his speed and beat Kimi. 77 votes (19.44%)
It'll be close fight either way. 55 votes (13.89%)

2008 thread
Kimi has grown as champion and dominates Massa. 93 votes (45.81%)
It'll be close fight, but Kimi is the one who deliveres in the end, again. 69 votes (33.99%)
It could turn out either way. 22 votes (10.84%) (or rather it will be a close fight but Massa will end up in front)
Massa has learned from his mistakes and beats Kimi convincingly! 19 votes (9.36%)

2009 thread - so FAR!
It could turn out either way. 8 votes (29.63%)
Massa has learned from his mistakes and wins the championship. 5 votes (18.52%)
Kimi has learned from his mistakes, dominates Massa and wins the championship. 5 votes (18.52%)
It'll be close fight, but Kimi is the one who delivers in the end. 5 votes (18.52%)
Both of them have a horrible year, F60 sucks & [insert team/driver] easily wins the championships. 4 votes (14.81%)
It'll be close fight, but Massa is the one who delivers in the end. 0 votes (0%)

In bold is the winner for 2007 and '08.



The forum was spot on in 2007, but '08, well the voters were wrong.

I fixed them for you because you were exxaggerating or something like that. For 2009 I predict again it will be close fight but Kimi ends up in front ;)

I think Kimi will deliver, but I expect Ferrari not having a WDC capable car.

(But don't be mad, usually I'm very good at making totally vague predictions, lol)

I think Kimi will do it, but at the point its hard to say until they have driven the car! So i say either way.

It'll be very close, but I think Massa will come out on top.

Of course it could turn out either way, but I voted for It'll be a close fight, but Kimi is the one who delivers in the end. There seem to be positive signs coming out of Maranello with regards to Raikkonen's preparation and his liking of the early version of the F60, and I just get the feeling that the memory of 2008 will be just so much of a dent to his pride that he'll recover a vestige of that scintilating pace, fuelled by sheer motivation to remind us just what his talent can do, which characterised him in particular with the MP4-20 in 2005, with the F2007 in '07 and at the likes of Spa in '08. I also still get the impression that a hypermotivated Raikkonen could still just about shade a similarly inspired Massa in a situation where each have similarly favourable circumstances surrounding them, despite the sheer application and resulting gradual improvement over recent seasons from the latter.

I'm also interested to see how Massa responds to his 2008 disappointment. His was just such a successful year comparative to those previously, and yet the end result was the opposite of Raikkonen's when in a similar late-season situation in 2007. Sometimes, a driver doesn't get a better chance in the future after missing an opportunity to win even when they feel resolved that that won't be the case. I do also suspect that, often, previous abject failure comparative to reputation, expectation and talent (not something you could accuse Massa of in '08) can actually provide the better motivator to perform in future instances.

Still, as you can see, I'm not technical and such talk about motivations could feasibly be complete cack. It's the beauty of there being so many changed parameters involved for '09 in every area.

either way.

Good doG, a scoreboard thread with two months to go before we even have any scores to put on the board?!? Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot?

As usual, I didn't vote, but if I had, I might've picked one of the pro-Kimi options - out of spite, if nothing else. Seriously, though, I've genuinely never thought he's quite as useless (relatively speaking) as people say he is, so I reckon he should be capable of beating his teammate. I'm not saying he will, just that he could. Maybe. I'd like to think so, anyway. Basically, I just want the love of my fanboy life to have one good season I can look back on and feel all warm and fuzzy about once he's gone - sort of like people remember HHF's 1999 season with fondness and admiration. There's a distinct chance 2009 will be the last chance my boy's going to get so he'd damn well better make the most of it.

Originally posted by kismet
Good doG, a scoreboard thread with two months to go before we even have any scores to put on the board?!? Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot?

As usual, I didn't vote, but if I had, I might've picked one of the pro-Kimi options - out of spite, if nothing else. Seriously, though, I've genuinely never thought he's quite as useless (relatively speaking) as people say he is, so I reckon he should be capable of beating his teammate. I'm not saying he will, just that he could. Maybe. I'd like to think so, anyway. Basically, I just want the love of my fanboy life to have one good season I can look back on and feel all warm and fuzzy about once he's gone - sort of like people remember HHF's 1999 season with fondness and admiration. There's a distinct chance 2009 will be the last chance my boy's going to get so he'd damn well better make the most of it.

Theres 2010 season too,if F60 is crap this year.Screw AS and their Alonso crap.

Quite frankly, I don't think I want the 2010 season if 2009 is going to be as bad as 2007 and especially 2008 were. In my book, being fired beats being spat on for two more years, no contest. But I admit I'm a bit of a wimp.

Provided the car doesn't end up suiting one driver's preferences to the extent that it holds back the other, I would trust Kimi to be the one able to deliver the better performance over a season. But then I'd have said that last year too and I don't believe the car was as huge a problem for Raikkonen last year as some people claim.

Originally posted by kismet
Good doG, a scoreboard thread with two months to go before we even have any scores to put on the board?!? Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot?

As usual, I didn't vote, but if I had, I might've picked one of the pro-Kimi options - out of spite, if nothing else. Seriously, though, I've genuinely never thought he's quite as useless (relatively speaking) as people say he is, so I reckon he should be capable of beating his teammate. I'm not saying he will, just that he could. Maybe. I'd like to think so, anyway. Basically, I just want the love of my fanboy life to have one good season I can look back on and feel all warm and fuzzy about once he's gone - sort of like people remember HHF's 1999 season with fondness and admiration. There's a distinct chance 2009 will be the last chance my boy's going to get so he'd damn well better make the most of it.

Well dude, the point of this thread is beyond just the poll - it's for people to continue talking about Kimi vs Felipe, Felipe vs Kimi, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera - in their 'own' thread (so to speak). Far too many people complained about the constant off-topic chatter in the F60 thread, so a thread was started for KvF for 2009.

Originally posted by kismet
Quite frankly, I don't think I want the 2010 season if 2009 is going to be as bad as 2007 and especially 2008 were. In my book, being fired beats being spat on for two more years, no contest. But I admit I'm a bit of a wimp.

He won the WDC in 2007,so in my books thats not a bad season 6 wins to rivals 4 is great in my book.

Either way.

I think unreliability will play a big part in the season for all drivers, and it could play a big part in Kimi vs Massa.

Originally posted by mursuka80


Theres 2010 season too,if F60 is crap this year.Screw AS and their Alonso crap.

Heel boy! Are you scared or something?

TBH I more or less wish for the F60 to be a dog. Any driver worthy of the name can drive a dream car, but driving a dog and still do well is another story and if the F60 is - we'll finally see who comes out on top as a driver, Massa or Kimi. IMO.

Originally posted by Suntrek


Heel boy! Are you scared or something?

TBH I more or less wish for the F60 to be a dog. Any driver worthy of the name can drive a dream car, but driving a dog and still do well is another story and if the F60 is - we'll finally see who comes out on top as a driver, Massa or Kimi. IMO.

Im not scared.Bring on Fernando to Ferrari patrner Kimi and we will see who is scared Im just fed up with talks that Massa`s seat is safe and Kimi is the one to make room to Fernando

Originally posted by mursuka80


Im not scared.Bring on Fernando to Ferrari patrner Kimi and we will see who is scared Im just fed up with talks that Massa`s seat is safe and Kimi is the one to make room to Fernando

I agree and id like to add the last person to be scared will be Kimi.....

Originally posted by Mika Mika


I agree and id like to add the last person to be scared will be Kimi.....

He will most likely serve some Finlandia to Alonso,to make him welcomed

Originally posted by mursuka80


Im not scared.Bring on Fernando to Ferrari patrner Kimi and we will see who is scared Im just fed up with talks that Massa`s seat is safe and Kimi is the one to make room to Fernando

Well you know I wished for Kimi to partner Alonso even at McLaren so I have no problem with that.

Though I can agree with that all this talk about Kimi getting the boot is a bit silly. I don't believe a word of it. If Alonso goes to Ferrari (and I'm not even sure I want that before I see how they cope with the new regs) it will not be because of any of the current drivers getting sacked - unless he underperforms atrociously and I can't see that happening with neither Kimi nor Massa. They are both too professional for that.

Kimi will come back from 08 dominate Massa- who only got a shot at the title because Kimi just couldn't get his the car to his liking.

As to wether or not Ferrari will have the car to be competative in 09 - won't know that for months yet.

Originally posted by mursuka80
Im not scared.Bring on Fernando to Ferrari patrner Kimi and we will see who is scared Im just fed up with talks that Massa`s seat is safe and Kimi is the one to make room to Fernando

Exactly. If Massa and Raikkonen were on the market for same price, guess who would gain more interest?

Usually Massa goes backwards in the races and Kimi forward, with these rules supposedly making overtaking easier, it will be interesting, Massa will have to face more overtake attempts over him, while Kimi will be able to overtake more. Looks promising for Kimi even if there happened no changes to their lap time potential of 2008.

If Massa can beat Kimi again, then maybe Kimi is a dead horse, but I very much suspect it will happen. Last year so many safety cars, Hamiltons etc.. went against Kimi, the same shouldnt happen this year.

Those poll options are cofusing and could be misleading, and usualy done with a bias ...ie. 2007 and 2008 versions implied dominance by Kimi, while onyl say Massa would learn from mistakes ...kinda silly if you asked me to repeat such claims this year, clearly we know who has to learn from mistakes (kimi!) and who ended up dominating who (massa ended dominating kimi).

Wanna do a poll? ...try something simple and clean with no allegations of performance:

Believe Kimi will beat Massa
Believe Massa will beat Kimi
Believe its too close to call this year
[couldnt care less as long as a red car wins] you could add this one as an optional

I think Kimi will win out, but it really comes down to seeing them both in the car. If Kimi continues to dislike the Ferrari and Massa likes it more - then the answer is obvious. Kimi clearly hated the 2008 car.

I agree that the poll is misleading. Why are there options that either Driver A or B wins the CHAMPIONSHIP. Isn't this thread supposed to be purely about driver comparison? If I think one of them will dominate badly, but expect another team to win the championship, I don't really have a good option to vote for, do I? Also "close fight" and "both have a horrible year" seem to sound quite similar in comparing.

The proper options IMO should be:
Kimi dominates Felipe
Kimi edges narrowly Felipe
Felipe dominates Kimi
Felipe edges narrowly Kimi
Too close to call

Originally posted by sopa
I agree that the poll is misleading. Why are there options that either Driver A or B wins the CHAMPIONSHIP. Isn't this thread supposed to be purely about driver comparison? If I think one of them will dominate badly, but expect another team to win the championship, I don't really have a good option to vote for, do I? Also "close fight" and "both have a horrible year" seem to sound quite similar in comparing.

The proper options IMO should be:
Kimi dominates Felipe
Kimi edges narrowly Felipe
Felipe dominates Kimi
Felipe edges narrowly Kimi
Too close to call

Well the narrowly edges options really are nothing be rehashes of the last option, hence only three options are really needed:

Dunno
Felipe
Kimi

For my taste any close call falls within noise variance...

I'm a Kimi fan since Sauber-times, but this time (if 2008 will repeat) there will be no mercy at the end of 2009. C'mon, no more Bode Miller-like driving .

If the cars hadn't changed so much, I'd say Massa would beat Kimi again, but now I just don't know. It can go either way.

Originally posted by Oho


Well the narrowly edges options really are nothing be rehashes of the last option, hence only three options are really needed:

Dunno
Felipe
Kimi

For my taste any close call falls within noise variance...

Well dominating is something like beating by 0.3+ sec in and out. I think there is need for the slight beating option of 0.1...0.3 sec too. If you have no enough options you cant vote precisely enough, and the result is ruined.

Originally posted by rce
Well dude, the point of this thread is beyond just the poll - it's for people to continue talking about Kimi vs Felipe, Felipe vs Kimi, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera - in their 'own' thread (so to speak). Far too many people complained about the constant off-topic chatter in the F60 thread, so a thread was started for KvF for 2009.

Some seem to be missing the whole point of this thread.

Originally posted by cordell777
I'm a Kimi fan since Sauber-times, but this time (if 2008 will repeat) there will be no mercy at the end of 2009. C'mon, no more Bode Miller-like driving.

Excellent.

Originally posted by micra_k10
If Massa can beat Kimi again, then maybe Kimi is a dead horse, but I very much suspect it will happen.

Me too!;)

Originally posted by molive


Me too!;)

I am not sure how to read you and micra - that Massa will beat Kimi again or that it is unlikely Kimi is beaten again?

Originally posted by klover

I am not sure how to read you and micra - that Massa will beat Kimi again or that it is unlikely Kimi is beaten again?

He said he (very much) suspects Massa will beat Kimi again, and I (very much) agree.

Originally posted by molive


He said he (very much) suspects Massa will beat Kimi again, and I (very much) agree.

I am not sure both of you meant the same. The way I read it - micra doubts Massa would beat Kimi again while you are leaning in the opposite direction - that Massa will repeat what he did in 2008. That's why I asked for clarification.

Originally posted by klover


I am not sure both of you meant the same. The way I read it - micra doubts Massa would beat Kimi again while you are leaning in the opposite direction - that Massa will repeat what he did in 2008. That's why I asked for clarification.

What we expect Mikra to write is the oppostie of what he actually wrote. So either he changed his mind loud and clear or it was only a freudian slip ;) .

He simply forgot to put "not" in his last sentence.

Originally posted by saudoso


What we expect Mikra to write is the oppostie of what he actually wrote. So either he changed his mind loud and clear or it was only a freudian slip ;) .

I think he meant "doubt", not "suspect". Unless he really thinks that Massa is likely to beat Kimi again but I don't think he has written Kimi off yet ;)

So it is a Freudian Slip...

Originally posted by saudoso
So it is a Freudian Slip...

Since when English not being 1st language is considered Freudian slip

English isn't my first language either, trading doubt for suspect is beyond 2nd languge issues ;)