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Carrol Shelby Ferrari GP 1956 Breakneck Hill Climb

Started by etceterini.com , Feb 14 2009 05:34

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35 replies to this topic

#1 etceterini.com

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 05:34

Just had to post this scan:

Posted Image

What a beast of a Ferrari!

-cliff reuter

#2 terry mcgrath

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 05:42

A one horse race -- his time made the others look slow
I would be keen to know what charles sarle was driving Jaguar #75 finishing 14th
thanks for posting this
terry

#3 etceterini.com

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 06:06

Here's one more of Carrol in one of my favorites!

Posted Image

Where's this Mexico today?

-c
www.etceterini.com

#4 Giraffe

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 10:42

Well as a result of my thread, (see "Porsches in LA"), we can now be sure that Carroll Shelby is aware of TNF!! :cool:

#5 David McKinney

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 10:49

Shelby also won the Mount Washington and Giant's Despair hillclimbs in the GP Ferrari that year
Does anyone know if those events were, like Breakneck, Nationals?
And, for that matter, Mount Equinox?

#6 Bruno

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 11:13

at Breakneck 1956 or 1955 ?

#7 starlet

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 12:50

Yes, David, all the three hillclimbs you mentioned were Nationals.
And thanks to all his good results in the Ferrari GP and sport cars entered by John Edgar, he clinched the 1956 SCCA National Championship.

And for Cliff, the "Mexico" is in a private collection in the USA.

#8 RA Historian

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 14:46

Originally posted by starlet
And for Cliff, the "Mexico" is in a private collection in the USA.

In the early 1990s I saw a Mexico at the Auburn-Cord-Duesenberg Museum in Auburn, Indiana. Same car?
Tom

#9 starlet

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 14:59

No Tom, a sister car c/n 0224AT.

#10 RA Historian

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 15:00

Originally posted by starlet
No Tom, a sister car c/n 0224AT.

Thanks!
Tom

#11 David McKinney

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 15:11

Originally posted by starlet
Yes, David, all the three hillclimbs you mentioned were Nationals

I mentioned four

To be absolutely clear, are you confirming the three other than Breakneck - Mt Washington, Giants Despair and Mt Equinox - were nationals?

#12 starlet

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 17:27

Yes, that's it indeed.
( As you already knew Breakneck was National, I thought the question was only on the three other )

#13 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 01:51

terry mcgrath

A one horse race -- his time made the others look slow
I would be keen to know what charles sarle was driving Jaguar #75 finishing 14th
thanks for posting this

Hi, terry.

To be sure, CS was the hands-down winner but to consider that Paul O'Shea in a 300SL and Dick Thompson in a Corvette got within 10% of the FTD set by a current-day F1 car is no small accomplishment.

#14 etceterini.com

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 02:59

Originally posted by Manfred Cubenoggin

Hi, terry.

To be sure, CS was the hands-down winner but to consider that Paul O'Shea in a 300SL and Dick Thompson in a Corvette got within 10% of the FTD set by a current-day F1 car is no small accomplishment.

You are right Manfred but also consider that this course was short, gravelly, twisty, and not suited to a GP Car.

#15 etceterini.com

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 01:58

Originally posted by starlet
Yes, that's it indeed.
( As you already knew Breakneck was National, I thought the question was only on the three other )

Here are the 1952 National SCCA results, as you can see the hill climbs are listed as national:

Posted Image

I just got these results from a 1953 program and I believe they have never been published
on the web till now....

-cr

#16 RA Historian

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 02:03

Originally posted by etceterini.com
I just got these results from a 1953 program and I believe they have never been published
on the web till now....-cr

Never saw them before either. Very interesting. Thanks for the post.
Tom

#17 etceterini.com

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 02:36

Tom,
Is that a Ferrari Super Squalo (sp) in the first pic with Carrol?? It has the side
tanks....

-c

#18 David McKinney

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:58

No, it's a slightly earlier 4.5-litre model (against 2.5)
The side-tanks were presumably fitted for Indianapolis, for which it had originally been imported

#19 fines

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 09:32

It even still carries the number from Indianapolis...;)

#20 D-Type

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 09:54

Originally posted by etceterini.com

You are right Manfred but also consider that this course was short, gravelly, twisty, and not suited to a GP Car.

Nor to a Corvette or a 300SL. But it would be suited to a Porsche RS and possibly to some Lotuses and Coopers.
But how hard would Shelby have had to try given that he was running in a class of 1 and only had the hill to beat (plus all the rest of the field for pride)?

#21 ggnagy

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 13:07

Originally posted by etceterini.com

Here are the 1952 National SCCA results, as you can see the hill climbs are listed as national:

I just got these results from a 1953 program and I believe they have never been published
on the web till now....

-cr

Indicating a split of disciplines even back then, None of the top ten drivers gathered points in either of the 2 road rallies listed on the schedule.

#22 cabianca

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 17:45

Shelby's Ferrari 375 FL at the discussed hillclimbs was the Ascari 1952 Indy car, serial No.1. Chinetti later had the body modified with the Squalo-type side tanks. Like many Ferrari GP cars that passed into private hands, the car was given a number from the racing sports car series, in this case, 0388. In the new configuration, it was entered by Chinetti's wife Marian at Indy in 1954 for Danny Oakes where it was a DNQ. Chinetti also entered the car at the Monza 500 in 1958 for Harry Schell, who finished 13th.

The SCCA had no "National Championship" per se in that year, only class championships. Shelby won the Unrestricted Class, sort of a Formula Libre class. The top class in US racing then was Class C Modified (Sports racers from 3-5 liters). Shel was the obvious fastest driver that year, but drove in many classes including Unrestricted, C Modified, D Modified and E Modified, rather than concentrating on one class for a Championship. The hillclimbs were kind of an afterthought. Shel's entrant, John Edgar, was leasing cars from Chinetti while waiting delivery of a Ferrari 410 S. It just so happened that Chinetti had the 375 laying around the shop and Shel and Edgar put it to good use.

#23 mcwidow70

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 19:14

Hi,

I am a little bit confused concerning the Shelby/Chinetti Ferrari.

I have few pics of this car:

1) driven by Shelby a Giant's Despair hillclimb in 1956

2) At Monza 500 in 1958

Looking at Monza pics, it is evident that in one photo the car is the 375 with the side additional tanks, while in the other two the car looks as a 375 without side appendix.
I don't think it was so easy to remove the tanks, so the options in my opinion are two:

a) for some reason Chinetti enrolled two different car at monza 500, choosing after trials for the best one.
b) the picture showing the white/blue 375 no.16 with the side tanks refers to another race, unknown to me.

Any comments?

ciao

#24 Dutchy

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 13:46

It looks like its got an additional tank on the nearside only, if you look carefully at picture 4 and I think the mechanic is standing in front of it in picture 3 hence it is obscured.

#25 Bruno

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 17:14

I not understand, I have:
at Giant's Despair 1956: Shelby/500 TR 0652MD n°128

#26 mcwidow70

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 19:37

It could be that the additional tank(or something that looks like???) was fitted only in one side but from a balancing point of view it is a non sense.

As fra as the Giant's Despair 1956 pic is concerned, the race number is strange (I have tried also to mirror the pic with no results): when I found it the related notice stated "Carrol Shelby Giant's Despair1956".

#27 Dutchy

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 07:25

If it is an extra fuel tank fitted to the n/s of the car, why does it have a large hole in the front of it?

#28 mcwidow70

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 13:30

this is antoher good question!
If it is an air inlet it is fitted in a strange position considering the front arrangement of the engine.

:confused:

#29 mcwidow70

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 13:46

I found another Monza 500 pic showing the appendix only on the left. So one part of the mystery is solved I think.

Do anyone know the technical meaning of this appendix fittedonly on one side?

#30 cabianca

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 16:29

Unless we have a picture showing the car having a tank on either side after the bodywork was modified, we might assume that Chinetti had the body modified from the Ascari spec by adding a fuel tank only on the left. This would place extra weight where it should be if Chinetti's intent for the car was to return to Indianapolis.

#31 mcwidow70

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 17:58

I agree; I found another pic of Breakneck hillclimb 1956 showing clearly the right side and if we consider the pic of the same race showing the left side (see photo added to the race program) there are no doubt.
Do you have any information (race number, pic, stats) of Shelby's attendance to The Brynfan Tyddyn Road Races (Harvey's Lake) in 1956 or Danny Oakes' attendance to Indianapolis 1954 (no.47 DNQ) both driving the same car?

#32 Lotus23

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 00:58

Slightly OT, but post #15 mentions the Vero Beach (FL) 12-hour race, for which double points were awarded for any driver who ran the whole race solo (!)

My mother has snowbirded in VB for decades, so I'm pretty familiar with the town. Was this race run at the airport? I can't think of anywhere else suitable for such an event.

#33 etceterini.com

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 06:22

Originally posted by Lotus23
Slightly OT, but post #15 mentions the Vero Beach (FL) 12-hour race, for which double points were awarded for any driver who ran the whole race solo (!)

My mother has snowbirded in VB for decades, so I'm pretty familiar with the town. Was this race run at the airport? I can't think of anywhere else suitable for such an event.

Yes, at the airport:

Posted Image

You can see more of the 1952 Vero Beach race by clicking below:

http://www.ferrariex...esults 1952.htm

Unless we have a picture showing the car having a tank on either side after the bodywork was modified, we might assume that Chinetti had the body modified from the Ascari spec by adding a fuel tank only on the left. This would place extra weight where it should be if Chinetti's intent for the car was to return to Indianapolis.

This makes sense to me! Are we writing history here??

-cr

#34 Lotus23

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Posted 01 March 2009 - 00:20

Many thanks, Cliff. Even after all this time, I'm still amazed at the breadth and depth of information on TNF!

#35 mcwidow70

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 14:44

Here some new pics of the Ferrari 375 Indy 01 rebodied 0388

Bob Said Daytona Speed Race 1955

"...There were surprises: Bob Said, a ferociously determined, 22-year-old racing enthusiast from Connecticut sprang the first on Monday. On that day of the sports cars, he barreled a Grand Prix Formula I Ferrari down Daytona's timed mile at 174.334 mph, turned, and sped back again at 166.743 mph for a two-way average of 170.538 mph. Said's performance was as unexpected as it was sensational—it was the first time he had ever driven anything as powerful as the Ferrari, which prompted Phil Walters, heretofore considered a sure winner in Briggs Cunningham's D-Type Jaguar (164.135 mph average), to give him a friendly warning just before the record run. "This is a lot of automobile," said Walters. "Don't push too hard." When Said got through pushing, he was the fastest driver at Daytona in NASCAR's six-year history of beach racing and the second fastest driver ever to race there in any car other than freaks or mammoths built specially for the job..." from Sport Illustrated 3 March 1955

So the relevant car had the appendix on both side in 1955, while clearly on the right it had been removed before the 1956's races.

Here below the same car at indy after alterations

31/05/54 : 500 MILES D'INDIANAPOLIS -Danny OAKES N°47 D.N.Q 375INDY/01(0388)

Do you have any information about:

30/05/53 : 500 INDY
-Johnny MAURO N°47 FORFAIT Ferrari 375INDY/03
-A.ASCARI N°97 FORFAIT Ferrari 375INDY/01

1954 : DAYTONA "500" (speed race)
-B. (Billy??) HOLLAND.N°16 249.390 km/h 375INDY/01(0388)

30/05/56 : 500 INDY
-J.BALDWIN N°91 D.N.Q. 375INDY/01(0388)

:confused:

Ciao