Sutil has asked the question that no-one else would.

It has been reported that Sutil has asked the question that it seems is on everybody's lips but no one had uttered in public:

"Is it cos he is black?"

As one commentator said "Did Schumacher tell the truth after parking his car at Monaco?" - Well, we know he didn't; were there two months of leaks, press releases, charges of bringing the sport into disrepute (again, sorry, that was again twice of course), er, no; so what's so special about Hamilton?

Schumacher didn't falsely testify to penalise another driver, but to save his own skin. Biiiiig difference.

And where did Kubica actually say that? Its a bit daft to think Hamilton would be persecuted for his skin tone. If it's going to make any difference it's going to make him much higher profile which helps everyone in F1.

Boy oh boy now you do have some kind of rep starting daft threads that are locked quickly Blogs but this one

So we should give him a hall pass when he lies to race stewards???

The kind of crap that's written is this forum is amazing.

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Schumacher didn't falsely testify to penalise another driver, but to save his own skin. Biiiiig difference.

The thing is though Schumacher's initial maneuver was a lot worse than Mclarens, who basically should just have lost 3rd place if the FIA weren't so interested in interfering with everything. I don't even think Hamilton should have been consulted because it was considered a drive through and according to the FIA after race drive throughs should be considered in the same way as ones during the race. I haven't seen the FIA pull many drivers over during the race to get their version of events before penalising another driver.

With regards to this thread, link or anything please?

A lot worse that has being brushed under the carpet is what bernie said before Christmas, he came out and said that Ferrari recieved more money and "additional aid from FIA" or something or other.

It seems strange that a comment that could turn out to be so massive in the past decades of the sport could be so quickly bushed under the carpet and not produced the threads that this present situation has.

I would have thought the implications of bernies speech a lot bigger then this current one.

It may not be the right question, but it is being asked. It is more likely that he is collateral damage in Mosley's hate of Ron Dennis, but with Mosley's history, it's unlikely that he would be over-worried about Hamilton's situation.

No, but twice he deliberately drove into other drivers in attempts to stop them winning their rightful World Championships, once successfully, once not. The "not" time he kept all his prize money, received no ban, had no points deducted the following season - So he lost the season's points, so what, he'd finished second, points were irrelevant then- No the treatment is clearly not the same, the punishments handed out not even similar. Is Hamilton paranoid, well I would be by now............................

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Schumacher didn't falsely testify to penalise another driver, but to save his own skin. Biiiiig difference.

Other than his actions penalized every single other driver who was on a fast lap, of course.

This won't get reported, otherwise press passes will be pulled and income lost. Same reason why McLaren caved in to the FIA as soon as they possibly could. The word snouts and trough come to mind.

Well, I for one can honestly say that I've totally missed the apparently obvious link between Hamilton's skin colour and the way he's been treated by the powers that be. Perhaps the cause-effect causality is not as strong as has been suggested, or perhaps I'm just too dense and lacking in imagination to fully appreciate all the sinister undertones of sports officiating.

Originally posted by Anomnader
A lot worse that has being brushed under the carpet is what bernie said before Christmas, he came out and said that Ferrari recieved more money and "additional aid from FIA" or something or other.

It seems strange that a comment that could turn out to be so massive in the past decades of the sport could be so quickly bushed under the carpet and not produced the threads that this present situation has.

I would have thought the implications of bernies speech a lot bigger then this current one.

But that was all true.

What's so special is that people are tired of him being so special. It's irrelevant whether he's black, white, pink or blue, the fact is he arrived in the sport with a golden ticket to the front of the grid and spent most of his time polishing his halo to the media while offending other drivers and pulling less than fluffy maneuvers on track. He, and/or his advisers, were setting him up for a fall.

Where did Kubica say this?

Hamilton and McLaren did what they did not based on skin colour but on being dishonest in an attempt to gain a podium place.

So was it because Trulli is a white and Toyota are Japanese, these are the questions that no one else asked....

Or was it just common cheating by McLaren and Lewis.....

Originally posted by Bloggsworth
It has been reported that Kubica has asked the question that it seems is on everybody's lips but no one had uttered in public:

"Is it cos he is black?"

As one commentator said "Did Schumacher tell the truth after parking his car at Monaco?" - Well, we know he didn't; were there two months of leaks, press releases, charges of bringing the sport into disrepute (again, sorry, that was again twice of course), er, no; so what's so special about Hamilton?

Ron Dennis isn't black.

Although I can see why people might think that Mosley, having campaigned to Keep Britain White in the sixties might not exactly warm to non-caucasians in F1.

Originally posted by ensign14

Other than his actions penalized every single other driver who was on a fast lap, of course.

This won't get reported, otherwise press passes will be pulled and income lost. Same reason why McLaren caved in to the FIA as soon as they possibly could. The word snouts and trough come to mind.

I don't think it will be reported because it either hasn't been said or everyone's on a long weekend. No journalists will be scared of running the Kubica quote if that's what he said, because he'll get all the ire and the publication will get all the attention.

Though it does remind me of something bira said in the summer of 2007, when she wondered if anyone would hint at the racism card and the consensus was the first person to bring it up would lose from it.

Originally posted by Bloggsworth
It has been reported that Kubica has asked the question that it seems is on everybody's lips but no one had uttered in public:

"Is it cos he is black?"

As one commentator said "Did Schumacher tell the truth after parking his car at Monaco?" - Well, we know he didn't; were there two months of leaks, press releases, charges of bringing the sport into disrepute (again, sorry, that was again twice of course), er, no; so what's so special about Hamilton?

Common mate give us some source for that news!
Or are u just making it up!

Originally posted by Bloggsworth
It may not be the right question, but it is being asked. It is more likely that he is collateral damage in Mosley's hate of Ron Dennis, but with Mosley's history, it's unlikely that hew would be over-worried about Hamilton's situation.

No, but twice he deliberately drove into other drivers in attempts to stop them winning their rightful World Championships, once successfully, once not. The "not" time he kept all his prize money, received no ban, had no points deducted the following season - So he lost the season's points, so what, he'd finished second, points were irrelevant then- No the treatment is clearly not the same, the punishments handed out not even similar. Is Hamilton paranoid, well I would be by now............................

All Lewis had to say is the Truth you reap what you sow, skin color is hardly relevant.

Originally posted by Group B
,the fact is he arrived in the sport with a golden ticket to the front of the grid

Yes because he never had to work his way up the lower leagues and produce results like any other driver.

offending other drivers and pulling less than fluffy maneuvers on track.

What I've found surprising is that with the overtaking this year is that there has being cheering when its happened.
In the last two years it has being lewis doing most of the overtaking in cars that have being harder to achieve in and he has got nothing but contempt. It all seems to depend on which way the wind is blowing or who is doing the overtaking...

Originally posted by Bloggsworth
It has been reported that Kubica has asked the question that it seems is on everybody's lips but no one had uttered in public:

"Is it cos he is black?"

It was Sutil, not Kubica.

Originally posted by PassWind


All Lewis had to say is the Truth you reap what you sow, skin color is hardly relevant.

well said!

Originally posted by Anomnader
A lot worse that has being brushed under the carpet is what bernie said before Christmas, he came out and said that Ferrari recieved more money and "additional aid from FIA" or something or other.

It seems strange that a comment that could turn out to be so massive in the past decades of the sport could be so quickly bushed under the carpet and not produced the threads that this present situation has.

I would have thought the implications of bernies speech a lot bigger then this current one.

I do not think that was ever a secret. When the Concorde agreement run out, each team negotiated individual terms.

Adrian Sutil said something similar in the current issue of the Dutch Formule1 magazine:

"You start to wonder why they're always on his [Hamilton's] case. It wouldn't be because of his skin colour would it?"

Originally posted by Bloggsworth
It has been reported that Kubica has asked the question that it seems is on everybody's lips but no one had uttered in public:

"Is it cos he is black?"

Source?

Originally posted by Broadway

I do not think that was ever a secret. When the Concorde agreement run out, each team negotiated individual terms.

The additional aid from FIA
Has not every being expanded on or disputed.

Originally posted by Nonesuch
Adrian Sutil said something similar in the current issue of the Dutch Formule1 magazine:

"You start to wonder why they're always on his [Hamilton's] case. It wouldn't be because of his skin colour would it?"

also on F1-live: here

Originally posted by smartie_f1


also on F1-live: here

Thanks for providing that link.

ooowwww I wonder if Sutil will be hit with a dispute charge. I can't imagine fia/max being happy with such an opinion being voiced.

Originally posted by Anomnader
ooowwww I wonder if Sutil will be hit with a dispute charge. I can't imagine fia/max being happy with such an opinion being voiced.

I hope they do.
Maybe then the mainstream media will start more inquires as to how this sport is governed.

To bring in skin color into this is pretty senseless. First of all - Hamilton is already off the hook, even though he lied. McLaren does not have a skin color.

Originally posted by se7en_24

The thing is though Schumacher's initial maneuver was a lot worse than Mclarens

How?

Schu's offense was during qualifying (albeit for Monaco...), but there was still a chance DURING THE RACE for the drivers to affect their final positions at the end of the RACE...

Trulli did the entire race, finished on the podium, then through lies was thrown completely out of the points...

Hardly the same as what Schu did at Monaco...

(That said, I do agree that what Schu did was dangerous, and in creating such a dangerous situation should have just been thrown out of participating in Monaco, since his race was more than likely already to be for nothing...)

Lastly, Schu did that on his own accord... I do NOT recall radio transmissions instructing Schu to park his car and block traffic, or Ferrari instructing him to lie at an questioning... That was all MS...

Again: That was ALL MS... I'm not defending what he did at all, but to say (albeit it is Ferrari, I admit that, too...) Ferrari should be buried for Schu's own actions all of his own is not good...

When you're arrested and you give a BS story, cops don't like it... When they get concrete evidence against you, and offer you a deal for admitting, and you stick to your BS story, well, the jury may hang you...


While perhaps McL need to be in the sport, and while my opinion of Lewis has never been that great, to learn something from this, and since Spygate's still fresh, they should just do something that effectively ends Hammy's season now...


Hammy's public apology is only because he got caught... If you're going to play poker, you gotta know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em... And he flashed his hand to everyone in interviews before being summoned by the casino's bouncers...

A casino would have thrown his ass to the curb already... For the integrity of the sport, Hammy/McL hopefully will get the same for this season...

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Schumacher didn't falsely testify to penalise another driver,

no he just penalized the whole grid by "locking down" the qualy-seesion when he was infront

Originally posted by Tolyngee


How?

Schu's offense was during qualifying (albeit for Monaco...), but there was still a chance DURING THE RACE for the drivers to affect their final positions at the end of the RACE...

Trulli did the entire race, finished on the podium, then through lies was thrown completely out of the points...

Hardly the same as what Schu did at Monaco...

(That said, I do agree that what Schu did was dangerous, and in creating such a dangerous situation should have just been thrown out of participating in Monaco, since his race was more than likely already to be for nothing...)

Lastly, Schu did that on his own accord... I do NOT recall radio transmissions instructing Schu to park his car and block traffic, or Ferrari instructing him to lie at an questioning... That was all MS...

Again: That was ALL MS... I'm not defending what he did at all, but to say (albeit it is Ferrari, I admit that, too...) Ferrari should be buried for Schu's own actions all of his own is not good...

When you're arrested and you give a BS story, cops don't like it... When they get concrete evidence against you, and offer you a deal for admitting, and you stick to your BS story, well, the jury may hang you...


While perhaps McL need to be in the sport, and while my opinion of Lewis has never been that great, to learn something from this, and since Spygate's still fresh, they should just do something that effectively ends Hammy's season now...


Hammy's public apology is only because he got caught... If you're going to play poker, you gotta know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em... And he flashed his hand to everyone in interviews before being summoned by the casino's bouncers...

A casino would have thrown his ass to the curb already... For the integrity of the sport, Hammy/McL hopefully will get the same for this season...

FFS, that reasoning makes me angry. It lacks logic, it lacks arguments and on top of that it is provocative and can not lead to any kind of constructive discussion.

Originally posted by Anomnader
A lot worse that has being brushed under the carpet is what bernie said before Christmas, he came out and said that Ferrari recieved more money and "additional aid from FIA" or something or other.

It seems strange that a comment that could turn out to be so massive in the past decades of the sport could be so quickly bushed under the carpet and not produced the threads that this present situation has.

I would have thought the implications of bernies speech a lot bigger then this current one.

This guy speaks the truth.

Personally i don't think is because his black. Is probably because his silver.;)

Originally posted by Broadway

FFS, that reasoning makes me angry. It lacks logic, it lacks arguments and on top of that it is provocative and can not lead to any kind of constructive discussion.

Arguing on the 'net is like participating in the Special Olympics: even if you win, you're still ********...

Originally posted by Broadway

FFS, that reasoning makes me angry. It lacks logic, it lacks arguments and on top of that it is provocative and can not lead to any kind of constructive discussion.

Agree, anything like that contains

"they should just do something that effectively ends Hammy's season now..."

I find dubious thinking, as it is effectively damaging the sport and a team over something relatively minor, especially when its written in a sentence trying to excuse an ontrack damaging action

If they want to do something that effectively ends Lewis and McLarens season then they better be prepared for a lose of a lot of viewers.

Originally posted by Anomnader


If they want to do something that effectively ends Lewis and McLarens season then they better be prepared for a lose of a lot of viewers.

I've never said that fans have any integrity though, either...

They want to see their favorite win, regardless of sportsmanship...

It's just a fact... You could put Obama (a black man with true integrity...) in an F1 car, and it's not going to change the concept of jury nullification...

Ohhhhh, he's black, let him back...

He's black, and he's British... Got two cards going for him already...

And what he did was huge... The last two DCs have been decided by that single point (or less) that he attempted to steal back from Trulli...


But, I'll stop... The jury of public opinion has already decided to nullify... Bye-bye, F1...

Originally posted by Tolyngee



Arguing on the 'net is like participating in the Special Olympics: even if you win, you're still ********...

That wasn't even funny in 1997 when it first came out. Well done.

Whether it was Sutil, Kubica, or whoever, thumbs up. Not because of playing the race card, which in itself is pretty lame, but because it's about time someone voices their unhappyness at how ridiculously harsh the FIA have been playing lately against Lewis and/or McLaren.

It's a bit funny because at the beginning of his career he actually seemed to be protected, see early 2007 and stuff like the crane incident. Since last year, it's been an extreme opposite, see the Montreal penalty, the Magny-Cours penalty, the Spa penalty(!!!), the Fuji penalty, etc - and now this "liegate" nonsense. All incidents that might have been legitimately punishable, yet have been way way overblown.

Originally posted by Timstr11
It was Sutil, not Kubica.

Oops! I can't remember a name for 2 minutes - I've corrected it.

Mentioned more than once in:

http://www.newsnow.c...ort/Formula One

Playing the race card is not constructive in itself, but it is very clear to most that Lewis is being victimised. Why? who knows.

What is fact however, is that he is the current WDC and should really be shown a little more respect by the FIA. The WDC is there to promote the sport, an ambassador if you like. To be publicly declared a liar and a cheat is not good for the image of the sport. Whatever happens for the rest of this season Lewis, the 2009 and youngest WDC ever, will be tainted and will constantly have to defend his reputation.

Regardless of what is said on here the WDC does not need to go through this rubbish. Trulli should have been demoted to 4th, Lewis 3rd and, perhaps, Lewis privately warned of his future conduct regarding what is or isn't said in front of the stewards.

The overall effect of this will be to devalue his WDC. Kids that worship him will now look at him a different light - a liar, a cheat - where is the upside?

I've actually been thinking that Lewis hasn't been good for F1 - he appears to have brought nothing but hassle and bad blood to F1. All this negativity really only started when Lewis joined the circuit. Monkey chants, the other drivers gainging up on him, Mclaren's record fine, Alonso, Spa 2008, etc etc.

It almost seems like it's not meant to be and he's swimming against the tide. Sooner or later one has to give up and let nature take it's course.

I don't think he's being scrutinised. Like Schumacher, Senna, etc he's in more contentious issues.

Originally posted by Bloggsworth


"Is it cos he is black?"

Because of his market value - and that in part because he's (half-)'black' - LH is actually being protected. If he was just another 'whitey' with less money making potential for Bernie & Co. he'd be treated worse, actually, and McLaren would probably have been thrown out in 2007 and might still be sitting out...

Originally posted by fed up
Playing the race card is not constructive in itself, but it is very clear to most that Lewis is being victimised. Why? who knows.

What is fact however, is that he is the current WDC and should really be shown a little more respect by the FIA. The WDC is there to promote the sport, an ambassador if you like. To be publicly declared a liar and a cheat is not good for the image of the sport. Whatever happens for the rest of this season Lewis, the 2009 and youngest WDC ever, will be tainted and will constantly have to defend his reputation.

Regardless of what is said on here the WDC does not need to go through this rubbish. Trulli should have been demoted to 4th, Lewis 3rd and, perhaps, Lewis privately warned of his future conduct regarding what is or isn't said in front of the stewards.

The overall effect of this will be to devalue his WDC. Kids that worship him will now look at him a different light - a liar, a cheat - where is the upside?

I've actually been thinking that Lewis hasn't been good for F1 - he appears to have brought nothing but hassle and bad blood to F1. All this negativity really only started when Lewis joined the circuit. Monkey chants, the other drivers gainging up on him, Mclaren's record fine, Alonso, Spa 2008, etc etc.

It almost seems like it's not meant to be and he's swimming against the tide. Sooner or later one has to give up and let nature take it's course.

Agreed; the reigning WDC should be given special dispensation to lie when the situation requires. It's simply not acceptable that a world champion, and a BRITISH world champion at that, are not at least shown enough respect to ensure that the governing body turns a blind eye to their cheating, or at the very worst keeps it hush hush. The man has fans for God sake, young children who worship him; is the world really so warped in this day and age that we should allow those fans to see what he's really like?! If this level of persecution is maintained we could well end up seeing a respectable team like MaClaren out of the sport and Hammy having to drive a substandard car down amongst the monkeys at the back of the grid.

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
I don't think he's being scrutinised. Like Schumacher, Senna, etc he's in more contentious issues.

That's partly true, he does attract issues, but I personally find it strange how they tend to be so harsh on him everytime something pops up.

Originally posted by Bloggsworth
It has been reported that Sutil has asked the question that it seems is on everybody's lips but no one had uttered in public:

"Is it cos he is black?"

As one commentator said "Did Schumacher tell the truth after parking his car at Monaco?" - Well, we know he didn't; were there two months of leaks, press releases, charges of bringing the sport into disrepute (again, sorry, that was again twice of course), er, no; so what's so special about Hamilton?

About MS - compairing what Lewis did and what MS did is like compairing apples and oranges.

1. MS was accused of deliberatedly blocking the track for other drivers.

2. MS pleaded "not guilty" to these charges.

3. Pleading "not guilty" in court is not a criminal offence even if you are guilty as hell.

4. Lewis - who himself wasn't accused of anything - committed perjury as a witness.

5. Committing perjury in court is a criminal offence.

See the difference?

Originally posted by paranoik0


That's partly true, he does attract issues, but I personally find it strange how they tend to be so harsh on him everytime something pops up.

I wonder if that's true.

Whiting said about the hearing:

Frankly if the world champion comes in, in a situation that wasn't controversial – he was only coming to give supplementary evidence to decide whether Trulli or not would be penalised – why would you not want to believe what he was saying?

If they wanna be harsh on Ham and/or McL, why would Whiting say that? And why would they rule against Trulli without having reviewed all videos, audios etc first?
Not the thing to do if they wanna be harsh on Ham or McL.

Then it was revealed Ham and Ryan lied...they brought this on themselves.

Originally posted by Suntrek


About MS - compairing what Lewis did and what MS did is like compairing apples and oranges.

1. MS was accused of deliberatedly blocking the track for other drivers.

2. MS pleaded "not guilty" to these charges.

3. Pleading "not guilty" in court is not a criminal offence even if you are guilty as hell.

4. Lewis - who himself wasn't accused of anything - committed perjury as a witness.

5. Committing perjury in court is a criminal offence.

See the difference?

He didn't lie in a court, he lied in a chat with the stewards. That's not ok, but not criminal neither.

This thread has received too much attention.

Originally posted by Anomnader
ooowwww I wonder if Sutil will be hit with a dispute charge. I can't imagine fia/max being happy with such an opinion being voiced.

Looks like the FIA is going to have a busy year...

Is this another pr stunt by Damien McBride?

If Sutil did indeed say this - the guy needs his head examining and the FIA could indeed sue him?