I've read a lot of stories about Formula 1 drivers treating autograph seeking fans and others both with contempt and respect. What drivers earn pole position in the niceness race?
Charmers ...
Started by
karlth
, Apr 23 2001 10:10
45 replies to this topic
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#2
Don Capps
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Posted 23 April 2001 - 11:29
The first name that pops into my head is Bruce McLaren!
#3
Don Capps
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Posted 23 April 2001 - 13:11
And in the same thought, Richard Petty.
#4
UAtkins
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Posted 23 April 2001 - 15:36
Absolutely Bruce McLaren.
#5
oldtimer
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Posted 23 April 2001 - 17:34
Denis Jenkinson's book on Fangio has a favourite photo of mine, showing the great man giving a few moments to small boy at one of the British tracks as he signs the proferred piece of paper. Totally charming.
#6
Rob Ryder
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Posted 23 April 2001 - 18:31
My vote goes to Graham Hill.
I remember being at Brands in the early 70's when Graham drove in to the paddock after practice. He stayed in the car for a full 20 minutes while numerous childeren had their photographs taken next to the car.
After he had changed from his driving suit he returned to the car and then lifted the kids in to the drivers seat, kneeling beside the car to pose for more pics!
I also had the chance to chat with him later, brilliant. He always seemed to have time for the fans.
Rob
I remember being at Brands in the early 70's when Graham drove in to the paddock after practice. He stayed in the car for a full 20 minutes while numerous childeren had their photographs taken next to the car.
After he had changed from his driving suit he returned to the car and then lifted the kids in to the drivers seat, kneeling beside the car to pose for more pics!
I also had the chance to chat with him later, brilliant. He always seemed to have time for the fans.
Rob
#7
Buford
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Posted 23 April 2001 - 18:43
In America it would have to be Eddie Sachs. I would agree with Graham Hill from the F1 world.
#8
luisfelipetrigo
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Posted 23 April 2001 - 19:04
Just as Don ... my first thought is Richard Petty.
I do not know him, nor do I have his autoghraph ... but he is the one most talked about in terms of taking care of fans.
I do not know him, nor do I have his autoghraph ... but he is the one most talked about in terms of taking care of fans.
#9
Don Capps
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Posted 23 April 2001 - 19:24
Jim Clark -- he and I actually sat in the paddock at Watins Glen and had a chat for a a profile I did for a local (SC) paper. It was amazing to later realize that he did something like that.
Stirling Moss always seemed to be in a hurry, yet still seemed to find the time to talk with people. And to do no end of great things for kids. I got to sit in his Cooper on the grid at Brands Hatch for an F2 race in 1959!
I had a nice talk at Torino in 1955 with Alberto Ascari. Boy, was I the envy of all my friends at school after that!
I saw Graham Hill work a crowd with such skill that it left me wondering why he was not in politics... He had them -- and me! -- completely under his spell.
However, the two that are tops in my book are Bruce McLaren and Richard Petty. I related some time ago about how McLaren helped me save face in an embarrassing situation in early 1959 -- and then actually remembered me for the next several seasons in the paddock or pits I visited! Fan for Eternity after that!
Say what you will, but to see Petty sitting for literally hours and signing autographs and just talking with fans and listening to the fans as well, was one of the reasons I have stayed with racing (in whatever form) for all these many years. I have to add Kyle Petty to this as well. After he and I sat and chatted about GP racing back in the mid-80's, a Fan Forever. Kyle isn't having much luck these days, but he is someone that I greatly admire as a Person. We both had the same trainer when we got 'busted' up. I was always fascinated how much of what he did for others was Genuine, not PR -- it is easy to see the difference when you hang around long enough.
Eddie Sachs spoke at my High School in the early 60's -- I think it was 1962. He stayed around and spoke to everyone that waited for him after his presentation. He made lots of fans that day, including me.
However, the person that was the biggest surprise to me in a positive way was one of those I least expected to be friendly at first -- Alan Kulwicki. A super person and a sharp wit as well. My daughter flipped over him and she generally could care less about such folks.
Stirling Moss always seemed to be in a hurry, yet still seemed to find the time to talk with people. And to do no end of great things for kids. I got to sit in his Cooper on the grid at Brands Hatch for an F2 race in 1959!
I had a nice talk at Torino in 1955 with Alberto Ascari. Boy, was I the envy of all my friends at school after that!
I saw Graham Hill work a crowd with such skill that it left me wondering why he was not in politics... He had them -- and me! -- completely under his spell.
However, the two that are tops in my book are Bruce McLaren and Richard Petty. I related some time ago about how McLaren helped me save face in an embarrassing situation in early 1959 -- and then actually remembered me for the next several seasons in the paddock or pits I visited! Fan for Eternity after that!
Say what you will, but to see Petty sitting for literally hours and signing autographs and just talking with fans and listening to the fans as well, was one of the reasons I have stayed with racing (in whatever form) for all these many years. I have to add Kyle Petty to this as well. After he and I sat and chatted about GP racing back in the mid-80's, a Fan Forever. Kyle isn't having much luck these days, but he is someone that I greatly admire as a Person. We both had the same trainer when we got 'busted' up. I was always fascinated how much of what he did for others was Genuine, not PR -- it is easy to see the difference when you hang around long enough.
Eddie Sachs spoke at my High School in the early 60's -- I think it was 1962. He stayed around and spoke to everyone that waited for him after his presentation. He made lots of fans that day, including me.
However, the person that was the biggest surprise to me in a positive way was one of those I least expected to be friendly at first -- Alan Kulwicki. A super person and a sharp wit as well. My daughter flipped over him and she generally could care less about such folks.
#10
33 route d'orleans
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Posted 23 April 2001 - 19:41
Trying to say the following with the 123 english words I know is not easy.
Fortunately it'll be short. I saw Carlos Reutemann, who was told to be rough sometimes, at the Race of Champions at Brands Hatch in 1974. The man put his hand right on my belly, without a word.
Must this fact be considered as nice ?
Fortunately it'll be short. I saw Carlos Reutemann, who was told to be rough sometimes, at the Race of Champions at Brands Hatch in 1974. The man put his hand right on my belly, without a word.
Must this fact be considered as nice ?
#11
Barry Boor
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Posted 23 April 2001 - 21:57
Surely I am not the only person to have spoken to Dan Gurney and found him humble and friendly................? He thanked ME for my support through the years! Now that's CLASS! 
#12
David J Jones
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Posted 23 April 2001 - 22:42
Innes Ireland, Alan Stacey, a third Team Lotus member? and Chris Bristow whose autographs I collected in May 1960 at the International Trophy.
The Team Lotus drivers were most accomodating - I only went after Innes's but he insisted I had the others as well.
Shortly after Stacey and Bristow died at Spa..
I wish I still had the programme!!
The Team Lotus drivers were most accomodating - I only went after Innes's but he insisted I had the others as well.
Shortly after Stacey and Bristow died at Spa..
I wish I still had the programme!!
#13
Buford
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Posted 23 April 2001 - 23:08
A bit off topic but since autographs came up I have one few people have, I bet. It was a blisteringly hot day in May, 1961. My brother and I were walking along the garage area fence with our autograph books at IMS. I was 13, my brother 10. I heard my name being called and I looked to our left and saw one of the fathers from our Quarter Midget club frantically waving to follow him. We ran after him and it was oppressively hot and we were sweating. and wondering why we were doing this. We ran about a block out into the parking area behind the Tower Terrace, and there in a little clearing among the parked cars was a 4 door sedan with all the doors open, and a small group of people standing around outside. The father who had led us there, still puffing said, "There is a driver in the back seat of that car I know you want to get in your autograph books."
We crossed the clearing and I noticed the people were all looking at us, and smiling. I had no idea what was going on. There in the back seat we found a tiny, shriveled up old man. He was as old as old could be, in my 13 year old eyes. But I knew who he was immediately. He signed our autograph books with a hand that was shaking so much, I felt bad for having troubled him. One of the people standing there said, "He is passing the torch", and everybody smiled. I didn't know what that meant. He spelled my name wrong, but I didn't care. I was thrilled to be in his presence and to have met him.
The little old man died a short time later. I think it was only a couple of months. But 40 years later I am still thrilled at having met him and I still have that autograph book. I don't look at it much. It makes me sad to see the names of all the drivers who died too soon, and so horribly. But wherever I look at (or think about) that one page with the shaky autograph obtained from that little old man, I smile. It was one of the highlights of my entire life, even now, 40 years later.
The little old man's name was Ray Harroun. Winner of the 1911 Indianapolis 500.
We crossed the clearing and I noticed the people were all looking at us, and smiling. I had no idea what was going on. There in the back seat we found a tiny, shriveled up old man. He was as old as old could be, in my 13 year old eyes. But I knew who he was immediately. He signed our autograph books with a hand that was shaking so much, I felt bad for having troubled him. One of the people standing there said, "He is passing the torch", and everybody smiled. I didn't know what that meant. He spelled my name wrong, but I didn't care. I was thrilled to be in his presence and to have met him.
The little old man died a short time later. I think it was only a couple of months. But 40 years later I am still thrilled at having met him and I still have that autograph book. I don't look at it much. It makes me sad to see the names of all the drivers who died too soon, and so horribly. But wherever I look at (or think about) that one page with the shaky autograph obtained from that little old man, I smile. It was one of the highlights of my entire life, even now, 40 years later.
The little old man's name was Ray Harroun. Winner of the 1911 Indianapolis 500.
#14
Ray Bell
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Posted 24 April 2001 - 03:00
You, of all people, Buford, are never off topic...
I was never an autograph hound, though I did get a few at times... Frank Matich, Brian Muir... they were the standouts. But I loved spending a little time chatting with the drivers. McLaren was one so easy to talk to, would like to have seen Timmy Mayer come back the following year, but I feel that our conversation wasn't totally what he wanted to be doing (you never felt like that with Bruce)... Surtees was a stressed man when I spoke to him, Hailwood past his stresses and very easygoing, I got off on the wrong foot with David Walker, so he was pretty angry...
But Buford has touched me with his experience... like my meeting such a minor player as Ken McKinney, the realisation that it was all so long ago...
My brother did chase an autograph for me, the only serious hunting I've done being to get as many AGP winners as possible to autograph the 50-Race History book.. When he went to England in 1987 (I'm sure I've mentioned this before...) he called on Arthur Waite, winner of the first AGP in 1928.
Knocking on the door resulted in an old woman coming out... and after an initial exchange about the purpose of his visit... "He won a car race in Australia many years ago..." she retorted:
"And haven't we all heard about it!"
Somewhere there's a photo of him with the book...
I was never an autograph hound, though I did get a few at times... Frank Matich, Brian Muir... they were the standouts. But I loved spending a little time chatting with the drivers. McLaren was one so easy to talk to, would like to have seen Timmy Mayer come back the following year, but I feel that our conversation wasn't totally what he wanted to be doing (you never felt like that with Bruce)... Surtees was a stressed man when I spoke to him, Hailwood past his stresses and very easygoing, I got off on the wrong foot with David Walker, so he was pretty angry...
But Buford has touched me with his experience... like my meeting such a minor player as Ken McKinney, the realisation that it was all so long ago...
My brother did chase an autograph for me, the only serious hunting I've done being to get as many AGP winners as possible to autograph the 50-Race History book.. When he went to England in 1987 (I'm sure I've mentioned this before...) he called on Arthur Waite, winner of the first AGP in 1928.
Knocking on the door resulted in an old woman coming out... and after an initial exchange about the purpose of his visit... "He won a car race in Australia many years ago..." she retorted:
"And haven't we all heard about it!"
Somewhere there's a photo of him with the book...
#15
dbw
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Posted 24 April 2001 - 03:15
the year was 1991...the featured "marque" at the monterey historic races was sr. fangio....we were all pretty awe struck and watched the great one from a polite distance.as his entourage neared where we were pitted[believe me they were on their way to Somewhere Important and we just happened to be on the route]he spotted my wife and my daughter[both pretty blondes,one half the age of the other] and the man himself broke ranks and made a beeline for the girls...he was charming beyond imagination and the gals got wonderful autographs not quite knowing who the gentleman was...as he turned to resume his duties our eyes met and i swear his charm for the women turned to a steely glare that said "i am the master and you know it." whatta cool guy.
#16
Ray Bell
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Posted 24 April 2001 - 03:43
Did you tell your wife that story?
I forgot to mention a few... Graham Hill, it goes without saying, though he didn't have the personal touch of McLaren... Jackie Stewart was never in that league, though I'm sure he made a lot of good friends around the world, and Mike would probably tell a story or two about him.
Denny Hulme, truly the bear, the friendly disposition you'd expect of him. Frank Gardner was always fairly available, John Cannon very open and talkative...
The only time I met Moss and Phil Hill to talk to them was much later, and they were good, like a team together, really. I got Phil's autograph ten races later than Stirling's because he really made that race, even though he never would have won it.
I forgot to mention a few... Graham Hill, it goes without saying, though he didn't have the personal touch of McLaren... Jackie Stewart was never in that league, though I'm sure he made a lot of good friends around the world, and Mike would probably tell a story or two about him.
Denny Hulme, truly the bear, the friendly disposition you'd expect of him. Frank Gardner was always fairly available, John Cannon very open and talkative...
The only time I met Moss and Phil Hill to talk to them was much later, and they were good, like a team together, really. I got Phil's autograph ten races later than Stirling's because he really made that race, even though he never would have won it.
#17
Gil Bouffard
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Posted 24 April 2001 - 05:12
The Maestro, Stirling Moss, Phil Hill and Dan Gurney were always impressive in their interest in the "common fan."
dbw, So you were at Monterey when I put together the tribute to Phil Hill and had Phil surrounded by Denise McCluggage, Frolian Gonzalez, Stirling Moss, Juan Fangio II, The Maestro, Jack Brabham, Dan Gurney and Danny Sullivan for the presentation.
There was a story told by Kyle Petty about when he was a young squirt. He was impatiently waiting for his father to stop signing autographs and kept pestering him to leave. Richard continued signing until all were satisfied. When they were alone Richard informed young Kyle that the reason they lived like they did and were doing so well was because of the fans. He explained that the fans paid his salary and he owed it to them to sign autographs.
During the first NSACAR race at Sears Point, (CA), I was collecting autographed team hats for the cancer patients at Stanford Children's Hospital (staying away from the tobacco folks). Richard was walking through the garage area when I told him of my task. He pulled a red sharpie out of his driving suit pocket and got an STP hat and signed it right away. And by the way, said. "Thank you." A class act as on that weekend were Neil Bonnet, Davey Allison, Mark Martin, Darrel Waltrip, Geoff and Brett Bodine, Kyle Petty and Bill Elliott.
The reaso I did this was because my wife worked on the Oncology Ward at Stanford Children's Hospital and I just wanted to do something nice for the kids.
Gil Bouffard
dbw, So you were at Monterey when I put together the tribute to Phil Hill and had Phil surrounded by Denise McCluggage, Frolian Gonzalez, Stirling Moss, Juan Fangio II, The Maestro, Jack Brabham, Dan Gurney and Danny Sullivan for the presentation.
There was a story told by Kyle Petty about when he was a young squirt. He was impatiently waiting for his father to stop signing autographs and kept pestering him to leave. Richard continued signing until all were satisfied. When they were alone Richard informed young Kyle that the reason they lived like they did and were doing so well was because of the fans. He explained that the fans paid his salary and he owed it to them to sign autographs.
During the first NSACAR race at Sears Point, (CA), I was collecting autographed team hats for the cancer patients at Stanford Children's Hospital (staying away from the tobacco folks). Richard was walking through the garage area when I told him of my task. He pulled a red sharpie out of his driving suit pocket and got an STP hat and signed it right away. And by the way, said. "Thank you." A class act as on that weekend were Neil Bonnet, Davey Allison, Mark Martin, Darrel Waltrip, Geoff and Brett Bodine, Kyle Petty and Bill Elliott.
The reaso I did this was because my wife worked on the Oncology Ward at Stanford Children's Hospital and I just wanted to do something nice for the kids.
Gil Bouffard
#18
Ray Bell
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Posted 24 April 2001 - 05:24
Whose hat was most popular?
That would be telling....
That would be telling....
#19
pancho
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Posted 24 April 2001 - 07:29
I assume by using the term 'charmers' we mean 'non-prima donnas', in which case I'd go for Black Jack, Bruce Mclaren, Chris Amon. Must be an Antipodian thing. These guys are down to earth and not full of bull***t. For the same reason I like Dick Johnson and AJ Foyt. They can be tough cookies but I bet they wouldn't turn their noses up at the common fan. BTW, Innes Ireland also falls into this mould.
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#20
Gary Davies
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Posted 24 April 2001 - 15:10
In, I think, 1986, I had the opportunity of talking with Thierry Boutsen in the pits at Adelaide. A thoroughly charming, thoughtful and self effacing man.
Slightly off thread, I recall being charmed to read, somewhere, that Elio de Angelis was the only F-1 driver of the then current crop with whom it was possible to spend a whole evening of interesting converstion without once touching on racing.
Slightly off thread, I recall being charmed to read, somewhere, that Elio de Angelis was the only F-1 driver of the then current crop with whom it was possible to spend a whole evening of interesting converstion without once touching on racing.
#21
Gil Bouffard
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Posted 24 April 2001 - 15:15
You want to know something?.....Too bad, I'm gonna tell you anyway.
I have stood in line with Alain Prost, Rene Arnoux, and Jean Pierre Jarier and never thought to ask them for their autographs. Of course they would have wet on my legs if they had turned around. But we were all at the same trough at the same time. I've escorted Bob Wollek, Manfred Winkelhock, Klaus Ludwig, Elio De Angelis and Nelson Piquet among others. Bob Bondurant has owed me a Helicopter ride for ten years. I've sat on the dais with Jackie Stewart. Eaten lunch with Bernard Cahier and never thought to ask any of them for an autograph.
I do, however, own a copy of FANGIO, with the Maestro's personal greeting. I also have personally signed photos on my office walls from Phil Hill, Dan Gurney, Stirling Moss, Derek Hill, Deborah Gregg and Lyn St. James, Michael and Jeff Andretti.
It is a perception thing. In each case where I have an autograph, I have done something for the person in the picture.
Gil
I have stood in line with Alain Prost, Rene Arnoux, and Jean Pierre Jarier and never thought to ask them for their autographs. Of course they would have wet on my legs if they had turned around. But we were all at the same trough at the same time. I've escorted Bob Wollek, Manfred Winkelhock, Klaus Ludwig, Elio De Angelis and Nelson Piquet among others. Bob Bondurant has owed me a Helicopter ride for ten years. I've sat on the dais with Jackie Stewart. Eaten lunch with Bernard Cahier and never thought to ask any of them for an autograph.
I do, however, own a copy of FANGIO, with the Maestro's personal greeting. I also have personally signed photos on my office walls from Phil Hill, Dan Gurney, Stirling Moss, Derek Hill, Deborah Gregg and Lyn St. James, Michael and Jeff Andretti.
It is a perception thing. In each case where I have an autograph, I have done something for the person in the picture.
Gil
#22
borsari
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Posted 24 April 2001 - 19:10
I think that for all their personality traits that make them great race drivers aside, most of the drivers are like normal people. and how they react to each fan is a bit different, if you get them in a good mood, they are happy to talk to you and sign autographs. if you find them in circumstances where all is not well, they don't have enough time for you and can be curt. I can use Moss as an example of that.
Dan Gurney has always been friendly to me, and there is only one driver who did not give me an autograph, and he was never a big star either, Jonathan Williams back in the late 60's.
I would imagine that being asked for an autograph is a bit like a moquito bite . . . the first one doesn't bother you too much, but the 100000000th is a bit nerve wracking.
Vals:yawn:
Dan Gurney has always been friendly to me, and there is only one driver who did not give me an autograph, and he was never a big star either, Jonathan Williams back in the late 60's.
I would imagine that being asked for an autograph is a bit like a moquito bite . . . the first one doesn't bother you too much, but the 100000000th is a bit nerve wracking.
Vals:yawn:
#23
Buford
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Posted 24 April 2001 - 20:15
"But we were all at the same trough at the same time"
Maybe this needs a new thread. I TOOK A PEE NEXT TO...
But anyway, I took a pee next to Andy Granatelli once. Boy that was ugly. Not one of my favorite racing related memories.
Maybe this needs a new thread. I TOOK A PEE NEXT TO...
But anyway, I took a pee next to Andy Granatelli once. Boy that was ugly. Not one of my favorite racing related memories.
#24
Barry Boor
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Posted 24 April 2001 - 20:17
Hey, I can enter this one. I stood next to a small boy in the Gents at Oulton Park in 1967. His name was Geoff and his Dad is Jack, who was World Champion - thrice!
#25
Rob Ryder
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Posted 24 April 2001 - 20:30
British GP 1976 at Brands... between Mario Andretti and Ronnie Peterson
;)
;)
#26
Gil Bouffard
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Posted 24 April 2001 - 22:56
I knew I could get you guys started! There is also the story of Paul Newman complaining that he couldn't go to the loo without someone with a camera or a piece of paper following him.....
Gil
#27
Ray Bell
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Posted 24 April 2001 - 23:10
Any of you blokes read or heard Frank Gardner's story about 'Mumbles'?
And the giant Tongan on the temporary dunny at Wigram?
I guess over the years I've pissed next to most of them... not a memory to hold onto... but maybe not as bad as Granatelli. Did he fart, too, Buford?
And the giant Tongan on the temporary dunny at Wigram?
I guess over the years I've pissed next to most of them... not a memory to hold onto... but maybe not as bad as Granatelli. Did he fart, too, Buford?
#28
Buford
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Posted 24 April 2001 - 23:25
I guess over the years I've pissed next to most of them... not a memory to hold onto... but maybe not as bad as Granatelli. Did he fart, too, Buford?
Oh thank God no. But the problem was he was very short and round and the urinal was kind of high. So he had to fish down below this enormous belly to find the item, and then had to kind of lean back and stand up on tippie toes and... oh it is too horrible to think about...
Oh thank God no. But the problem was he was very short and round and the urinal was kind of high. So he had to fish down below this enormous belly to find the item, and then had to kind of lean back and stand up on tippie toes and... oh it is too horrible to think about...
#29
Ray Bell
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Posted 24 April 2001 - 23:39
Hmmm... yes, there've been times I've found myself a bit short for the architecture, but not that bad...
Buford... you keep 'em coming... I can't wait till you qualify for the Paddock Club!
And I've got to be there when you talk to Mike...
Buford... you keep 'em coming... I can't wait till you qualify for the Paddock Club!
And I've got to be there when you talk to Mike...
#30
Buford
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Posted 24 April 2001 - 23:56
What's the paddock club?
#31
Ray Bell
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Posted 25 April 2001 - 00:13
Probably beneath your dignity, but it's another forum on the Atlas F1 board... where the general discussion takes place, with nary a hint of racing, but all with hangers-on from around here... a good place to amuse yourself while you wait for Nostalgia to take a turn...
When can we get together with Mike?
By the way, I've been sending your various posts far and wide to help attract a few new ones to this forum, hope you don't mind...
Especially the Clark thread stuff, and the Harroun one...
When can we get together with Mike?
By the way, I've been sending your various posts far and wide to help attract a few new ones to this forum, hope you don't mind...
Especially the Clark thread stuff, and the Harroun one...
#32
Buford
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Posted 25 April 2001 - 00:30
Oh sorry for the ignorance. I was afraid you had to wear a tie. I haven't looked at that forum. I have had a request to post some of my extremely controversial posts from Speednet somewhere here but haven't gotten around to it. Maybe that would be the place. Then there will be less warm fuzzies.
The two most controversial were titled
"Theory Of The Pompous Ass "
where I explained to the IRL weenies that in the racing world, as opposed to your office or factory, it is OK to be a pompous ass as long as you have earned it.
and "Racing Is Just A Dick Measuring Game Using Neat Toys" where I explained how racing people are not necessarily mentally healthy or normal people, and are motivated by insecurities and fear above all else.
Those posts have been widely distributed and talked about and mostly the racing people said I had really nailed it, and the fans were outraged, saying I was denigrating their heroes and blah, blah, blah.
I'd like to meet with Mike or anybody else until everybody gets pissed at me. I live in Las Vegas. Great place to visit and live. Get in touch if you are coming to the last resting place of the wild frontier.
The two most controversial were titled
"Theory Of The Pompous Ass "
where I explained to the IRL weenies that in the racing world, as opposed to your office or factory, it is OK to be a pompous ass as long as you have earned it.
and "Racing Is Just A Dick Measuring Game Using Neat Toys" where I explained how racing people are not necessarily mentally healthy or normal people, and are motivated by insecurities and fear above all else.
Those posts have been widely distributed and talked about and mostly the racing people said I had really nailed it, and the fans were outraged, saying I was denigrating their heroes and blah, blah, blah.
I'd like to meet with Mike or anybody else until everybody gets pissed at me. I live in Las Vegas. Great place to visit and live. Get in touch if you are coming to the last resting place of the wild frontier.
#33
Wolf
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Posted 25 April 2001 - 00:35
Well, two more posts and this 'New' in Your title will dissapear and You become of age to enter in there. All You have to do upon becoming eligibile for joining PC is E-mail PitBabe with Your request.
I thought You'd want to know...;)
I thought You'd want to know...;)
#34
Ray Bell
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Posted 25 April 2001 - 00:36
Wonder where Mike is? He hasn't posted in a while, I don't think...
Really miss his insight....
Really miss his insight....
#35
deangelis86
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- 365 posts
- Joined: November 00
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Posted 25 April 2001 - 12:28
>Slightly off thread, I recall being charmed to read, somewhere, >that Elio de Angelis was the only F-1 driver of the then current >crop with whom it was possible to spend a whole evening of >interesting converstion without once touching on racing. [/B][/QUOTE]
Absolutely correct. This was one of the main reasons why the De Angelis/Rosberg friendship was so strong during the 80's, the ability to spend long periods of time in each others company without talking shop.
One of Elio's best points was that he had a multitude of other talents and interests, as has been discussed previously on these forums he was a pianist of near concert level.
At Silverstone in 1985 when I had to open the Silverstone Scrutineering bay's gates for the morning drivers briefing, the only driver to say a "thank you" was...yup you guess it, Elio.
- He was a man of great culture.
Absolutely correct. This was one of the main reasons why the De Angelis/Rosberg friendship was so strong during the 80's, the ability to spend long periods of time in each others company without talking shop.
One of Elio's best points was that he had a multitude of other talents and interests, as has been discussed previously on these forums he was a pianist of near concert level.
At Silverstone in 1985 when I had to open the Silverstone Scrutineering bay's gates for the morning drivers briefing, the only driver to say a "thank you" was...yup you guess it, Elio.
- He was a man of great culture.
#36
Ray Bell
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- 80,227 posts
- Joined: December 99
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Posted 26 April 2001 - 16:50
Originally posted by Buford
...in the back seat we found a tiny, shriveled up old man. He was as old as old could be, in my 13 year old eyes. But I knew who he was immediately. He signed our autograph books with a hand that was shaking so much, I felt bad for having troubled him. One of the people standing there said, "He is passing the torch", and everybody smiled. I didn't know what that meant. He spelled my name wrong, but I didn't care. I was thrilled to be in his presence and to have met him...
I was looking tonight for some information about David Bruce-Brown, and I thought the Peter Helck book would be a good place. I want to know where he came from, but it doesn't say anything... anyone know?
Anyway, to get to the point, I came to a bit about the Harroun win at Indy... no wonder he was old in 1961... he'd retired from racing before that Indy race anyway!
"Harroun, the 1910 AAA Champion, was dragged from retirement to drive a Marmon of his own design, a 6-cylinder special of 477 cubic inches with a long narrow body - Indy's first single seater! Upon its being protested, he rigged a mirror just in front of the steering wheel - another first - and now with this means of visibility was allowed to roll. A shrewd observer of his rivals during practice, Harroun concluded that the car to beat was not among the foreign marques - Mercedes, Fiat or Benz - but Mulford's 544-Lozier."
It goes on to describe much of the race, mentioning particularly Bruce-Brown's 'furious climb to the top'. Then an accident and subsequent swerving to avoid a riding mechanic lying on the track led to the electric timing system being abandoned or damaged.
Now, here's something interesting: Harroun then handed the car to Patschke, who drove for 100 miles with the instruction that he should 'stick close to the Lozier'... which he did.
When the flag came down, the order was declared as being Harroun, Mulford and Bruce-Brown, on the track again after damaging a wheel.
But Mulford's men protested, and the implication from the book is that Marmon was a local product and the Lozier was not... that maybe Harroun didn't win at all. The protest did result in reducing the four-lap margin to one lap.
Riding mechanics were mandatory from 1912 to 1923. Marmon rested on their laurels, the Arabic Harroun retired from racing for good.
#37
A3
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- 32,104 posts
- Joined: February 00
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Posted 26 April 2001 - 20:20
Thanks Ray for posting the link to this thread. I'm amazed by all the stories and but I'm going to read some more in here if i can find the time.
#38
SteveB2
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- 228 posts
- Joined: November 99
Member
Posted 26 April 2001 - 21:17
Ray,
The book Joe always quotes from, Tim Considine's "American Grand Prix something or other mumblmumblemumble " has a pretty good write up on Bruce-Brown. I'll check it when I get home this evening. I'm pretty sure he was from a very wealthy family from Long Island. When I read about him I was surprised noone has ever made a movie about him.
The book Joe always quotes from, Tim Considine's "American Grand Prix something or other mumblmumblemumble " has a pretty good write up on Bruce-Brown. I'll check it when I get home this evening. I'm pretty sure he was from a very wealthy family from Long Island. When I read about him I was surprised noone has ever made a movie about him.
#39
Ray Bell
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- 80,227 posts
- Joined: December 99
Member
Posted 26 April 2001 - 21:30
Yes, they got to that at Trackforum now... Eastside NY City, I think they came up with...
Certainly made his mark in the USGP, winning two in a row.
Certainly made his mark in the USGP, winning two in a row.
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#40
SteveB2
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- 228 posts
- Joined: November 99
Member
Posted 27 April 2001 - 02:24
Yup. New York's east side. And yes, two USGP's. 1910 in a Benz and 1911 in one of those great big type S74 Fiats (14 liters 
) He must have been one of the first motor racing icons. Perhaps Barney Oldfield was the first. (At least in the US).
) He must have been one of the first motor racing icons. Perhaps Barney Oldfield was the first. (At least in the US).
#41
Buford
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- 11,174 posts
- Joined: March 01
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Posted 27 April 2001 - 03:41
Timing problems in the 1911 Indy 500? Hmmm. Reminds me of a story a racing promoter told at a banquet I was at of a early 1950's stock car race he held in the US midwest. It has a 500 lapper, the big season ending race. It was in the fall and was very cold and windy. They had no real scoring system so to tell the number of laps run, his assistant put a piece of popcorn on the shelf in front of them every time the leader came by.
About a third of the way through the race, they were freezing their butts off and a big wind gust came through and blew all the popcorn away. So they said, "The hell with this", and went down in the car and turned on the heater for an hour or so. The assistant said, "How are we going to tell who won?"
He said, "We'll go up in about 20 minutes and watch for awhile and whoever seems to be running good, he's the winner." So they did that and nobody bitched. Nobody else, either in the crowd or the pits knew who the winner was either!
About a third of the way through the race, they were freezing their butts off and a big wind gust came through and blew all the popcorn away. So they said, "The hell with this", and went down in the car and turned on the heater for an hour or so. The assistant said, "How are we going to tell who won?"
He said, "We'll go up in about 20 minutes and watch for awhile and whoever seems to be running good, he's the winner." So they did that and nobody bitched. Nobody else, either in the crowd or the pits knew who the winner was either!
#42
dbw
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- 993 posts
- Joined: October 00
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Posted 27 April 2001 - 04:11
while i can't attest to racing drivers..i can tell you it was possible to have a 5 hour japanese dinner with henry manney and never hear a single word about motorsports but learn a lot about the backstage love life of certain russian dancers not to mention explicit anitomical details of a well known greek tycoon....well, maybe it was the sake......
#43
Ross Stonefeld
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- 70,106 posts
- Joined: August 99
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Posted 27 April 2001 - 06:23
I have signed two autographs in my glittering career, and I have to say I love it.
Both were at Daytona last july for the Grand-Am/NASCAR weekend of the PEpsi 400. NASCAR was doing their saturday night oval race and Grand-Am was on the road course. I was bumming around entertaining offers "wow thats cheap, but its still above zero"
Im chilling out at the hooters across the street from the track Thursday night when Dale Earnhardt Jr walks in. All the customers freaked out, except my table. I have never seen Hooters girls so mad in their life as all these guys got up to go see Dale Jr. I sat there nibbling on my friends and our server asked why I wasnt running over there. I said quite suavely with a little wink(hard to imagine I know) "im better than him" She, as all Hooters girls do, produced that look more commonly associated with their attemps at mental math. The girl sitting at my table explained quite simply that I was a junior rank driver. The Hooter seemed skeptical but after my friend's assurances she gradually warmed to the concept and since we left a rather small tip I decided to sign the menu. They probably just threw it away.
The next day before one of the Grand-Am sessions I was hanging out in the garage area with Brian Redman (yeah, I had just stolen his autosport) and this guy was showing his young boys race cars, to guage interest in case they would want to bring them back for the Rolex 24. These kids were definately race fans after being in the garages for about 10 minutes, they had the "woah..." glaze in their eyes. One of them was able to determine from my posturing (and the "sponsor me please!" ballcap) that I was trying to do more than spectate. This young lad sneaked up next to me and politely asked if I was a racing driver I gave my best "hmmm, sorta" and as simply and briefly explained the financial aspect. He didnt care, he wanted my autrograph anyways. So I signed, on the waiver/disclaimer on the back of a ticket stub "Dear Chasen, thanks for asking for my first autograph, Ross Stonefeld" In the absolutely *worst* handwriting ive ever done to boot. I bet this kid, who was all of 7 had better penmanship than I. He was quite pleased, though I was more proud of my autograph than he was
There, another one of my self-promoting posts
Oh...I signed the wall at Siebkins once too
Both were at Daytona last july for the Grand-Am/NASCAR weekend of the PEpsi 400. NASCAR was doing their saturday night oval race and Grand-Am was on the road course. I was bumming around entertaining offers "wow thats cheap, but its still above zero"
Im chilling out at the hooters across the street from the track Thursday night when Dale Earnhardt Jr walks in. All the customers freaked out, except my table. I have never seen Hooters girls so mad in their life as all these guys got up to go see Dale Jr. I sat there nibbling on my friends and our server asked why I wasnt running over there. I said quite suavely with a little wink(hard to imagine I know) "im better than him" She, as all Hooters girls do, produced that look more commonly associated with their attemps at mental math. The girl sitting at my table explained quite simply that I was a junior rank driver. The Hooter seemed skeptical but after my friend's assurances she gradually warmed to the concept and since we left a rather small tip I decided to sign the menu. They probably just threw it away.
The next day before one of the Grand-Am sessions I was hanging out in the garage area with Brian Redman (yeah, I had just stolen his autosport) and this guy was showing his young boys race cars, to guage interest in case they would want to bring them back for the Rolex 24. These kids were definately race fans after being in the garages for about 10 minutes, they had the "woah..." glaze in their eyes. One of them was able to determine from my posturing (and the "sponsor me please!" ballcap) that I was trying to do more than spectate. This young lad sneaked up next to me and politely asked if I was a racing driver I gave my best "hmmm, sorta" and as simply and briefly explained the financial aspect. He didnt care, he wanted my autrograph anyways. So I signed, on the waiver/disclaimer on the back of a ticket stub "Dear Chasen, thanks for asking for my first autograph, Ross Stonefeld" In the absolutely *worst* handwriting ive ever done to boot. I bet this kid, who was all of 7 had better penmanship than I. He was quite pleased, though I was more proud of my autograph than he was
There, another one of my self-promoting posts
Oh...I signed the wall at Siebkins once too
#44
Tony Kingston
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- 77 posts
- Joined: April 01
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Posted 28 April 2001 - 21:04
I was never really an autograph hunter but one day in the nineties I took my family to the Gatcombe Park horse trials. While in the queue on one of the access roads I noticed Jackie Stewart knocking in fence poles. My observation was met with disbelief, why would a man of international fame and fortune be wielding a large hammer in the car park in the rain? My credibility as a celebrity spotter was only restored when I returned with the great man's signature.
#45
Don Capps
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- 5,933 posts
- Joined: May 99
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Posted 29 April 2001 - 02:44
dbw,
Sorry, but I had tears in my eyes when I read about your dinner with HNMIII -- I am not sure if they were from laughing or from rememberance, probably the former. Gawd, HNM was funny. Like you, I doubt if we ever mentioned racing in much more than passing or as a link to something else, but I never ceased to marvel at his ability to dance, tell a story, and impart all the sordid details of the lives of the rich and famous.
In fact, I still remember his first words to me: "And, Little Man, you are? Certainly you meant to be elsewhere...." (Or something VERY close to that.... I asked him if he knew Peter Ustinov...)
Sorry, but I had tears in my eyes when I read about your dinner with HNMIII -- I am not sure if they were from laughing or from rememberance, probably the former. Gawd, HNM was funny. Like you, I doubt if we ever mentioned racing in much more than passing or as a link to something else, but I never ceased to marvel at his ability to dance, tell a story, and impart all the sordid details of the lives of the rich and famous.
In fact, I still remember his first words to me: "And, Little Man, you are? Certainly you meant to be elsewhere...." (Or something VERY close to that.... I asked him if he knew Peter Ustinov...)
#46
dbw
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- 993 posts
- Joined: October 00
Member
Posted 29 April 2001 - 05:58
i don't want to turn this into a weepy HNM III thread but.....i first met the gentleman as the monterey historics in 1977 thru a mutual friend....as we walked by a particularly nasty looking black bugatti coupe he observed "it looks like herman munster ought to be driving that." i think that was the last car related comment i heard for the rest of the day....the japanese dinner came some time later after i had met his lovely wife ann...we even had him park his motorhome in our driveway for a few days while he was in the bay area on assignment for R&T....the backstage ballet stories were hilarious...we all knew of his high blood pressure but he steadfastly refused to take his meds...he was in good spirits the last time we saw him[ he was teaching my wife to make a rather potent version of a swiss cookie..basil lecherly??] and after his stroke my wife and i promised ann we'd visit him but we never managed....a great loss...it seems like only yesterday.
dbw
dbw
