I've just been watching a video in which Fangio talks about his 'greatest race' (his words), the German GP of 57. He says that they had practiced pitstops previously and had them down to 30 seconds. However on this occasion, the stop took those 30 seconds plus ANOTHER 48. My question is : why??
The Fangio pitstop during the 1957 German GP
Started by
Gary C
, Jul 30 2001 00:56
19 replies to this topic
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#2
Graham Clayton
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Posted 30 July 2001 - 02:55
The story I have heard was that the Maserati pit-crew
has done something special to the "knock-off" wheel nut
so that they could be removed as quick as possible.
The mechanic hit the screw with a mallet or similar instrument.
The nut flew off the wheel, but then hit the pit lane
and ended up underneath Fangio's 250F. By the time
the mechanic had either fetched it or got a replacement
lug, the time for the stop had blown out.
Can anyone else confirm this?
has done something special to the "knock-off" wheel nut
so that they could be removed as quick as possible.
The mechanic hit the screw with a mallet or similar instrument.
The nut flew off the wheel, but then hit the pit lane
and ended up underneath Fangio's 250F. By the time
the mechanic had either fetched it or got a replacement
lug, the time for the stop had blown out.
Can anyone else confirm this?
#3
Milan Fistonic
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Posted 30 July 2001 - 09:55
Doug Nye in the History of the Grand Prix Car 1945-65 has the same story of the hub nut spinning beneath the car.
As to the actual time of the stop, Cyril Posthumus says the time Fangio was actually stationary "was variously reported as 56.0, 52.0, 54.0 and 53.6 seconds, but whichever the accurate one, it was an unconscionably long time for the Maserati mechanics to take."
As to the actual time of the stop, Cyril Posthumus says the time Fangio was actually stationary "was variously reported as 56.0, 52.0, 54.0 and 53.6 seconds, but whichever the accurate one, it was an unconscionably long time for the Maserati mechanics to take."
#4
Don Capps
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Posted 30 July 2001 - 12:49
I had wondered about this for years until I saw the video several years which show the pitstop as it happened. For some reason ths piece of film had rested out of the sight of many until relatively recently (about a decade ago). It clearly shows the machanic using the mallet to knock off the wheel nut. It can be seen bouncing under the car. The mechanic is obviously concentrating on getting the old wheel off and the new wheel on, which he does in good time, by the way. However, he then looks for the wheel nut and can't find it. It is now the typical Chinese Fire Drill which was typical of most pit stops in those days (outside of Alfa & Mercedes). The wheel nut is under the car, directly below the tank. Eventually, after a frantic search the wheel nut is found, put back on, hammered tight and Fangio is back on his way.
The time was about what was quoted, roughly 55 seconds. Obviously none of The Scribes saw the incident in its entirety or the participants were so addled perhaps even they didn't really know what happened. Except the rear tire changer. I have not seen the video in years, but I never thought to take a look and see who it was.
Whatever the case, he did not go into a total panic and did keep his cool and found the (a...) wheel nut and got Fangio back into the fray....
The time was about what was quoted, roughly 55 seconds. Obviously none of The Scribes saw the incident in its entirety or the participants were so addled perhaps even they didn't really know what happened. Except the rear tire changer. I have not seen the video in years, but I never thought to take a look and see who it was.
Whatever the case, he did not go into a total panic and did keep his cool and found the (a...) wheel nut and got Fangio back into the fray....
#5
Gary C
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Posted 30 July 2001 - 13:03
Fantastic ! Thank you Don!
#6
fines
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Posted 30 July 2001 - 15:15
Well, Behra's stop took even longer, according to "Das Auto", and Fangio's about ten seconds longer than needed because the Maestro was wiping the sweat from his face!?
#7
Dave Ware
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Posted 30 July 2001 - 16:17
I also saw the film Don refers to. Speedvision broadcast it sometime in the last year.
#8
Gary C
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Posted 30 July 2001 - 18:20
is there any way I can buy this piece of video commercially?
#9
Pablo Vignone
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Posted 19 October 2005 - 15:29
Does anybody knows the name of such mechanic?
#10
Mike Lawrence
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Posted 20 October 2005 - 03:06
Let us remember one thing and that Fangio built that pit stop into his race strategy and there had not been a scheduled pit stop in a Grand Prix for several years. Pit stops had been mainly about fuel up to the end of 1951. From the beginning of 1952 and the 2-litre Formula Two World Championship, cars mostly ran without stops for fuel and tyres.
Stirling Moss's 'splash and dash' during the 1957 British GP was actually due to anxiety. Someone may prove me wrong, but I think it was the only time a Vanwall refuelled during a race.
Fangio had worked out a strategy for the 1957 German GP, but the Maserati mechanics had been used to the more leisurely stops which happened in endurance races. The length of the pit stop was determined by how long it took to pour churns of fuel into a funnel and that tended to be a slow process. Maserati mechanics were asked to do something, change rear tyres and pour in fuel, which they had never been asked to do before as a team.
I do not believe all the hype which has sprung up about Fangio's drive. Of cpurse, he broke the lap record, but a lot of drivers did because the 'Ring had been partl;y resurfaced. Stirling has told me it was a great drive and my response was, 'How would you know? You never saw him after the first lap.'
In case anyone thinks I am merely in the business of dissing Fangio, lI have been known to say 'Moss For King' let me remind everyone that Fangio drove much of the race with his seat not properlly attached to the car. That part is not always recorded.
Stirling Moss's 'splash and dash' during the 1957 British GP was actually due to anxiety. Someone may prove me wrong, but I think it was the only time a Vanwall refuelled during a race.
Fangio had worked out a strategy for the 1957 German GP, but the Maserati mechanics had been used to the more leisurely stops which happened in endurance races. The length of the pit stop was determined by how long it took to pour churns of fuel into a funnel and that tended to be a slow process. Maserati mechanics were asked to do something, change rear tyres and pour in fuel, which they had never been asked to do before as a team.
I do not believe all the hype which has sprung up about Fangio's drive. Of cpurse, he broke the lap record, but a lot of drivers did because the 'Ring had been partl;y resurfaced. Stirling has told me it was a great drive and my response was, 'How would you know? You never saw him after the first lap.'
In case anyone thinks I am merely in the business of dissing Fangio, lI have been known to say 'Moss For King' let me remind everyone that Fangio drove much of the race with his seat not properlly attached to the car. That part is not always recorded.
#11
Doug Nye
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Posted 20 October 2005 - 09:04
Movie of the pit stop plainly shows the mechanic - whose name I will seek for you - who fitted the right rear wheel doing a shocked double-take as he looks round for the hub nut, which has flicked away underneath the car. Bertocchi himself described the sequence to me in considerable detail, two weeks before his tragic death. Just for once, contemporary photographic evidence supports his evidence completely.
DCN
DCN
#12
D-Type
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Posted 20 October 2005 - 13:10
Mike,
Reluctant as I am to disagree with a sage, in this case I have to. Scheduled pitstops were not that rare up to 1957. Take Reims 1953 where Gonzalez started on half tanks, ran away in the lead, made his pit stop (fuel and tyres?), restarted in 6th. and made it up to third and was closer to Fangio than JMF was to Hawthorn at the finish.
Reluctant as I am to disagree with a sage, in this case I have to. Scheduled pitstops were not that rare up to 1957. Take Reims 1953 where Gonzalez started on half tanks, ran away in the lead, made his pit stop (fuel and tyres?), restarted in 6th. and made it up to third and was closer to Fangio than JMF was to Hawthorn at the finish.
#13
David McKinney
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Posted 20 October 2005 - 13:26
OK, so that's two in four years ;)
There were others as well, but they were by no means commonplace
There were others as well, but they were by no means commonplace
#14
roger_valentine
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Posted 21 October 2005 - 06:37
Im glad to see that what could easily have turned out to be another GP myth has proved to be entirely true, and the actual time of the stop confirmed as well. Well done Don, Doug and others.
I was always suspicious about Fangio's "30 plus 48" claim, but as all the Fangio interviews I have seen have been either subtitled or dubbed into English, can anyone confirm that he actually said this, and did his figures ever change on subsequant re-tellings of the story?
I was always suspicious about Fangio's "30 plus 48" claim, but as all the Fangio interviews I have seen have been either subtitled or dubbed into English, can anyone confirm that he actually said this, and did his figures ever change on subsequant re-tellings of the story?
#16
kayemod
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Posted 02 February 2006 - 12:22
If you take into account the time lost in slowing down into the pits and accelerating away after the stop, Fangio's own estimate of "30 seconds plus another 48" probably wouldn't have been all that far out, if we are all agreed that the actual time stopped was a little under one minute. No pit lane speed limits in those days though, and no separate pit entry lane either. Was anyone ever sanctioned for what the stewards considered to be a recklessly fast pit stop entry or exit?
#17
Bjorn Kjer
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Posted 31 August 2007 - 17:59
Just wanted to tell that Fangios one championship was with Maserati AND Mercedes , and that Mark Donahues name is Donohue , and perhaps someone could use whats said here !
#18
Rosemayer
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Posted 31 August 2007 - 19:24
Should this not be merged with the other Fangio Thread?
Cheers Rosey
Cheers Rosey
#19
Ray Bell
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Posted 31 August 2007 - 21:24
Originally posted by Rosemayer
Should this not be merged with the other Fangio Thread?
To better show how long Mike's been pushing this little barrow?
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#20
Bjorn Kjer
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Posted 31 August 2007 - 22:14
Ehhh-hrmmmpppff!
