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Imola '63 - Jim Clark and the track

Started by unrepentant lurker , Apr 17 2002 20:12

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41 replies to this topic

#1 unrepentant lurker

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Posted 17 April 2002 - 20:12

Season F1 posted a video clip of Jim Clark at Imola in 1963. It's a non-championship race, I assume, or maybe even F2.

As you might imagine the track has changed a bit since then and I didn't recognize most of it, except the start finish straight. Does anyone have a map of the track as it existed in those days.

Anyone interested in downloading the clip will find it here: Epoca. There are a few other nice clips on that page. There is also another page that will interest people here: Tribute Clips. There are a few tribute clips to some drivers, but the only real nice one is the Nuvolari clip.

WARNING: This server is very slow, so a download manager really helps out. You will also need WinRAR, which is free I think. Also, and audio will be in Italian.

#2 Vitesse2

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Posted 17 April 2002 - 21:47

AFAIK the circuit layout was substantially the same as today. You can find a "pre-variante" map at Darren's site and a bit of history here:

http://www.autodromo...nav-uk.asp?id=1

It seems there's been a lot of development since 1963, which may be why it was unfamiliar. In those days Imola (AKA Castellacis) was primarily a motorbike circuit.

#3 maxim

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Posted 17 April 2002 - 22:18

Try here for any past & present's trackmap:
http://www.racingcircuits.net/

#4 unrepentant lurker

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Posted 18 April 2002 - 00:09

Thanks for the links. It looks like a fantastic track pre chicanes.

There is a sequence from 1:40 - 2:00 that I thought might have been Villeneuve (different name then obviously) but I guess it must be Aqua Mineralli.

A seperate sequence from 2:10 shows the area where Variante Alta is now. I think the building in the background is still there, but closer to the track now.

#5 Bernd

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Posted 18 April 2002 - 00:29

Fantastic this particular race has had my interest ever since I dug up this Programme cover for it and submitted it to the Programme Covers Project.

Posted Image

I know that it was a somewhat poorly attended Non-Championship Formula 1 Race and that Jimmy did his usual romping away victory routine but that is all I know about it. If anyone can point me to a race report and full results I'd be very grateful.

#6 sat

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Posted 18 April 2002 - 04:02

21.4.1963 16:00 GP Imola/Coppa d'Oro/Trofeo Shell
50x5,017 km=250,85 km
ST13/CL9 Grid 3_2_3
Pole on left
1.- Lotus 25/R5-Climax FVMV V8 - Jim Clark - GB - Team Lotus- 50 - 1:34:07,400 - 159,9 km/h/1. - 01:48,300
2. - Lotus 24/950-BRM V8- Jo Siffert - CH - Scuderia Filipinetti- 50 - 1:35:23,800/4. - 01:53,600
3. - Lola T4-Climax FVMV V8 - Bob Anderson - GB - Bob Anderson - 49/6. - 01:57,100
4. - Brabham BT2/FJ-5-62-Ford Classic Holbay - Jo Schlesser - F - 49/7. - 01:58,300
5. - Cooper T51/F2-13-59-Maserati - Carlo Mario Abate - I - Scuderia Centro Sud - 49/12. - 2:01,800
6. - Porsche 718/201 - Carel G. de Beaufort - NL - Scuderia Filipinetti (Ecurie Maarsbergen) - 48/8. - 01:59,300
7. - Porsche 718/202? - Jack Fairman - GB - Scuderia Filipinetti (Ecurie Maarsbergen) - 47/9. - 1:59,300
8. - Lotus 18-Climax 4 - Ernesto Prinroth - I - 41/10. - 02:00,900
9. - Lotus 25/R3-Climax FVMV V8- Trevor Taylor - GB - Team Lotus - 36/2. - 01:50,800
Not classed:
Cooper-Climax FVMV V8 - Jo Bonnier - S - R.R.C. Walker Racing Team - 21 - Oil line - 3. - 1:51,800
Lotus 24-Climax FVMV V8 - Bernard Collomb - F - 20 - ignition - 11. - 02:01,300
Cooper T51-Maserati - Lorenzo Bandini - I - Scuderia Centro Sud - 8 - Engine - 5. - 01:54,800
Lotus-Climax 4- Gaetano Starabba - I - 6- ? - 13. - 02:09,300
Lotus-Climax 4- Giancarlo Baghetti - I - Scuderia Filipinetti - 0 - ? - 01:54,800
DNQ
Lotus 18/373-Climax 4 or BRM?- Günther Seiffert - CH- Autosport Team Wolfgang Seidel - 02:09,300
In entry list only
ATS - Phil Hill - USA
Heinz Schiller - CH
Porsche 718 - Herbert Müller - CH - Scuderia Filipinetti (Ecurie Maarsbergen)
Lucien Bianchi - B
Emeryson-Climax 4 - Tony Settember - USA
Ferrari - John Surtees - GB
Ferrari X
Lotus 24/946-BRM V8 - Wolfgang Seidel - D - Autosport Team Wolfgang Seidel

#7 Barry Boor

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Posted 18 April 2002 - 06:24

The 'old' Imola circuit map on Darren's site came from my Autosport Directory 1955. This book has provided quite a few old circuit plans for Darren's super site.

Here is the text that accompanies the Imola map:

"The new Italian permanent Autodromo di Imola, inaugurated in June 1954 with an international sports car race, is 3.12 miles long, and contains many fast curves, in Bremgarten style, and no straights worthy of the name.

It is formed by riverside roads, connecting with others within the public park of the town of Castellaccio, near Bologna. Stands and other circuit amenities are modern; the surface is smooth, the corners kerbed and the organizers, the A C I di Bologna, clearly intend that Imola will become a premier Italian racing venue."

Well it did, but it took an awfully long time to happen.

#8 Vitesse2

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Posted 18 April 2002 - 10:59

There is a report of sorts in the Formula 1 Record Book, but all it adds to the result above is that Bonnier was in second place when his engine blew and that Taylor had gearbox trouble, accounting for his lowly placing. However, he did set fastest lap, 1min 48.3 sec = 103.62mph.

It also lists the start numbers, but if you have the programme presumably you already have those Bernd?

#9 Bernd

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Posted 18 April 2002 - 11:37

Thanks for the results guys.

Vitesse2 I don't have the Programme only the cover!

#10 Vitesse2

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Posted 18 April 2002 - 13:03

Just found a full report by DSJ in the June 1963 Motor Sport. This was the first motor race at Imola since 1956. There is also a track map which shows slight variations from Darren's in the section after Tosa.

Clark pulled out 2 seconds a lap from the start, but Taylor pulled into the pits at the end of lap 2. By the time he got going again, he was ten laps down. He then did one more lap and pitted again. However, the gearbox still wasn't working properly (selector problem) and after another four laps he came in once more. This time they got it right and when he emerged he settled into some fast lappery, although he was still changing gear "carefully".

Bonnier was running in second, with Siffert keeping him in sight. Bandini was fourth, but soon to retire. Fairman's grid time was apparently set by de Beaufort, by the way.

Most of the interest was midfield with Anderson initially holding off a gaggle of cars while he got to grips with his "new" V8 engine. Rather than struggle with the car and battle with them as well, he let them all by, but once he had the measure of the car he repassed Prinoth, Abate, Schlesser and de Beaufort by lap 17 and inherited third place when Bonnier retired.

Abate and Schlesser scrapped throughout, with the Frenchman in front for some time, but with much fist-waving from the Italian. Schlesser was blue-flagged and let the Cooper through, but the effort must have been too much, since Jo later repassed it! That was really the only battle left after half distance as everyone else was circulating alone.

Nevertheless, the drivers seem to have liked the circuit and DSJ said that "everyone hopes it will not be seven years before it is used again". Well, he was wrong there ....

Clark received a golden Shell emblem as winner of the race and also picked up all the prize money they had provided for the leader at every tenth lap - a profitable day for him and Lotus and worth the long trip from Pau - understandable that they didn't carry on down to Syracuse though, as it was only four days later and Aintree two days after that must have seemed far more important.

Entry list:
2 J. Surtees (Ferrari 156 V6) DNA Car not ready
4 J. Clark (Lotus 25-Climax V8)
6 T. Taylor (Lotus 25-Climax V8)
8 J.Bonnier (Cooper T60-Climax V8)
10 J.Siffert (Lotus 24-BRM V8)
12 C. de Beaufort (Porsche 718 F4)
14 J. Fairman (Porsche 718 F4)
16 P. Hill (ATS T100 V8) DNA Car not ready
18 R Anderson (Lola Mk4-Climax V8)
20 G. Baghetti (Lotus 21-Climax 4) DNQ
22 G. Seifert (Lotus 24-Climax V8) DNQ
24 A. Pilette (Lotus 18/21-Climax 4) Withdrawn
26 C. Abate (Porsche 718 F4) DNS No car - see 32
28 G. Starrabba (Lotus 18-Maserati 4)
30 L. Bandini (Cooper T53-Maserati 4)
32 W. Mairesse (Ferrari 156 V6) DNA Car not ready - entry taken over by Scuderia Centro-Sud
32 C. Abate (Cooper T51-Maserati 4)
34 J. Schlesser (Brabham BT2-Ford 4)
36 B. Collomb (Lotus 24-Climax V8)
38 E. Prinoth (Lotus 18-Climax 4)

#11 Allen Brown

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Posted 18 April 2002 - 15:47

I'm interested it some of the views expressed here on the Centro Sud cars. Photographs show that Bandini was driving a 1961 F1 "lowline" Cooper (later called a T53) but I have also heard of a picture (unfortunately not seen with my own eyes) that shows Abate in a lowline as well, rather than the 1959/60 F2 Cooper (later called a T51). This is very odd as Centro Sud only had a single T53 in 1961. I'd love to know whether the picture just shows Abate using Bandini's car during practice.

'sat' above calls both cars T51s and gives a chassis number for the Abate car. Is that chassis number from one of the F1 Register books? If not, where is it from?

'Vitesse2' gives an entry list with Bandini in a T53 and Abate in a T51. Where is that entry list from? Motor Sport? Does Jenks use the terms 'T53' and 'T51'?

Allen

#12 Roger Clark

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Posted 18 April 2002 - 17:51

this is from Autosport and shows Abate alongside Pinroth. THere is no indication whether it is in practice or the race. THe chassis number sat quotes are in both Sheldon and Thompson's "Formula One Record Book". Jenkinson does not mention Cooper type numbers.

#13 Allen Brown

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Posted 18 April 2002 - 19:19

That's a lowline all right. So unless the only two pictures I know of whatever Abate was driving were both taken during practice (unlikely), Centro-Sud had two lowlines.

I just love a(nother) mystery

Allen

#14 Schummy

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Posted 18 April 2002 - 19:23

That pic in Roger's post seems to be taken at Acqua Minerale. The only other place I can quickly think about is Villeneuve, but the right hander seems to tight and apparently they are climbing (towards Variante-Alta zone?)

#15 Doug Nye

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Posted 18 April 2002 - 20:06

Or going round the other way.....? No evidence, just a 90 per cent buried memory in the dark recesses.........

DCN

#16 Barry Boor

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Posted 18 April 2002 - 20:09

I can't be sure, Dong, but I don't think so. My 1955 book shows anti-clockwise, and I can't see them changing twice. Once, maybe, but surely not twice?

#17 Vitesse2

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Posted 18 April 2002 - 20:20

Originally posted by Allen Brown
I'm interested it some of the views expressed here on the Centro Sud cars. Photographs show that Bandini was driving a 1961 F1 "lowline" Cooper (later called a T53) but I have also heard of a picture (unfortunately not seen with my own eyes) that shows Abate in a lowline as well, rather than the 1959/60 F2 Cooper (later called a T51). This is very odd as Centro Sud only had a single T53 in 1961. I'd love to know whether the picture just shows Abate using Bandini's car during practice.

'sat' above calls both cars T51s and gives a chassis number for the Abate car. Is that chassis number from one of the F1 Register books? If not, where is it from?

'Vitesse2' gives an entry list with Bandini in a T53 and Abate in a T51. Where is that entry list from? Motor Sport? Does Jenks use the terms 'T53' and 'T51'?

Allen

The brief report in the Thompson book says that Abate's car was a rebodied T51. As Roger says, no mention in Motor Sport.

#18 unrepentant lurker

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Posted 18 April 2002 - 20:43

Originally posted by Schummy
That pic in Roger's post seems to be taken at Acqua Minerale. The only other place I can quickly think about is Villeneuve, but the right hander seems to tight and apparently they are climbing (towards Variante-Alta zone?)

The portion in the video that is obviously Acqua Minerale is a lot tighter with lots of hay bales close up to the track. There is also a grandstand right on the inside of the corner.

The only thing I can think of is perhaps the approach to the start/finish straight, with the photographer standing opposite of the pits looking back towards the Rivazzas.

BTW, does anyone know who drove the #8 car. Its blue with a white stripe around the nose (US racing colors). I thought NART was the only US entrant in that era, and they were mostly racing in North America??

#19 Barry Boor

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Posted 18 April 2002 - 21:00

Sounds suspiciously like Rob Walker's colours to me.

Jo Bonnier driving tends to give the game away!

#20 Vitesse2

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Posted 18 April 2002 - 21:14

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Sounds suspiciously like Rob Walker's colours to me.

Jo Bonnier driving tends to give the game away!

That and the fact that Bonnier is number 8 on the entry list^^

#21 Allen Brown

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Posted 18 April 2002 - 21:23

Originally posted by Vitesse2
The brief report in the Thompson book says that Abate's car was a rebodied T51. As Roger says, no mention in Motor Sport.

Thanks Vitesse. I'd read Thompson's account and thought he was struggling to reconcile the same photograph. Fitting a T53 body on a T51 must be just about impossible, the frames were so different. They must have had another T53 frame or had done massive surgery to the T51.

Doug - you know Coopers far better than me. Could a T51 be turned into a T53? Would Centro-Sud have had that level of expertise?

Allen

PS On the occasion of my 500th post, I'd just like to say: why doesn't it show the number of posts alongside the posters name any more? I'd been looking forward to this magical moment and there's nothing here to show that it's happened.

#22 Schummy

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Posted 18 April 2002 - 22:36

Well, we can give you a Ferrari 500 Testa Rossa, a Mercedes 500 or a Fiat 500 (your choice)

If I was Arafat I would do :kiss:

If I was from F1-Live: :mad:

If I was Heidfeld: :love:

If I was Prost: :cry:

(not related)

If I was Kimi: (-_-) (no reaction)

If I was Ron I would think you cheated the numbers

If I was Verstappen: :stoned:

(spinning, spinning, no related)

But seriously, congratulations! :up:

#23 Doug Nye

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Posted 19 April 2002 - 07:36

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Fitting a T53 body on a T51 must be just about impossible, the frames were so different. They must have had another T53 frame or had done massive surgery to the T51. Doug - you know Coopers far better than me. Could a T51 be turned into a T53? Would Centro-Sud have had that level of expertise?

As long as you leave sufficient airspace inside a body to fit the frame you could mount a T53 lookalike body - or a Lotus 25 lookalike body for that matter - on a London bus chassis, it's all imply a matter of dimension. The T51 had a more compact yet taller frame than the T53 but the differences are greater in visual proportion than in actual physical dimension - apart (importantly) for height.

Centro Sud were absolutely capable of having any kind of aluminium shell bashed out to their requirements at any time.

The Italian panel bashing industry was the most diverse, most capable and most active in the world with the exception that they did not discover 'the English wheel' for fashioning multi-curvature panels until very late in the piece, and until then they hand-hammered curves instead - traditionally into the concave crown of an iron-hoop bound tree stump. The trade/craft/skill had been passed down from mediaeval armour manufacturers - literally hundreds of years old.

'Auto Italiana' carries pix of both the Abate and Bandini Cooper cars - both looking T53-ish but one looks less convincing than the other. I will try to scan the pix and send them on to you for your own assessment, but it's a bit of a struggle to lump a hefty hard-bound volume onto my scanner and to scan these pix successfully.

Stand by one...

DCN

#24 Terry

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Posted 21 April 2002 - 21:15

A friend alerted me of this discussion. I own and restored a Cooper T-53 lowline that was originally a Centro Sud Cooper Maserati. I do not believe that it is F1/13/61 which was equipped with a 1 1/2 liter Maserati engine for the F-1 series. That car is claimed by Freddy Streun in Bern, Switzerland but I do not personally know its provenence.

My car was sold into the US by Scuderia Centro Sud to the well known collector, Robert Sutherland of Denver, Colorado in October of 1972. It was delivered with a well worn and almost certainly wrong chassis plate identifying the car as F1/12/59 [this does not match Cooper's numbering system and T-53's were not built in 1959]. Photos taken at the time indicate that various body and chassis modifications [also present on Freddy Streun's car] had been made by Centro Sud. It delivered with a Type 21 Colatti transaxel and a Maserati five speed shifter. The size of the transaxel suggests that a larger displacement engine than a 1 1/2 liter was originally fitted. The car was said to have been used as a school car by Centro Sud after it was retired from racing. An Alfa engine was in the car when imported into the US however there are many clues on the body and chassis that a Maserati engine was previously fitted.

The car remained in Sutherland's collection until I purchased it in 1995. He had Alf Francis start the restoration of the car in the mid-70s. Alf claimed that some of the welding on the rear of the chassis was his from the Rob Walker Team, however that was never substantiated. I have restored the car totally to Centro Sud color and specs. I had to use a 2 1/2 liter Coventry Climax engine due to the unavailability of a proper Maserati engine.

In response to the possibility that the car was originally a T-51, I owned one of those also and we carefully compared the cars and looked for clues of alteration. We found none and also concluded that it would be a very difficult task. Everything on the car matches precisely with a T-53.

All of my research to date has caused me to conclude that there were two Centro Sud T-53's. I am anxious to find additional history of my car. Photos and additional information are available. Please contact me or post here.

#25 Allen Brown

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Posted 22 April 2002 - 04:35

Terry

I am delighted that you have found us. I have a page on the Cooper T53s on my site and I have been stuck on your car, which I guessed was the Sutherland car. It seems pretty clear from the conversation above that Centro-Sud had a second T53 at Imola and that appears to be the car you have now. I agree with you that it can't be a modified T51 and I hope we can figure out its exact origins.

I'll be in touch when I've marshalled everything I have.

Regards

Allen

#26 Barry Boor

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Posted 22 April 2002 - 06:17

Another triumph for the Nostalgia Forum :clap:

#27 Doug Nye

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Posted 24 April 2002 - 00:14

Originally posted by Doug Nye
I will try to scan the pix and send them on to you for your own assessment...Stand by one...

Here they are: Scuderia Centro-Sud Coopers, first at Imola 1963 in company with Lotus 24, Lotus 18 and Porsche 718:

Posted Image

Then Abate:

Posted Image

and then Abate and Bandini in the two T53P cars either genuine or look-alike(ish) at Syracuse 1963:

Posted Image

and:

DCN

#28 Allen Brown

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Posted 24 April 2002 - 07:07

Thanks Doug. These should be a huge help in determining which of the Centro-Sud lowlines ended up with Sutherland and which with Siffert.

Terry - could you post the pictures you have of the Cooper taken in 1972? Maybe we can spot a few common features.

I know someone in Switzerland who saw the Siffert/Streun car as recently as last Autumn and may be able to post some pictures of that car too.

Allen

#29 David McKinney

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Posted 24 April 2002 - 10:16

Those Abate photos worry me a little - the nose is certainly T53, but surely the depth of the centre section, ie the bit from the bottom of the windscreen to the underside of the car, is more T51 shape than T53? What we really need is a profile shot, preferably with rear bodywork as well, to confirm whether or not they might have doctored a T51

#30 Richard Neale

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Posted 02 May 2002 - 20:32

Terry ~
Many thanks for introducing me to this Forum ~ I can see from a quick browse that I recognise several of the contributors.

Woody :up:

#31 Allen Brown

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Posted 03 May 2002 - 14:47

Originally posted by David McKinney
Those Abate photos worry me a little - the nose is certainly T53, but surely the depth of the centre section, ie the bit from the bottom of the windscreen to the underside of the car, is more T51 shape than T53? What we really need is a profile shot, preferably with rear bodywork as well, to confirm whether or not they might have doctored a T51

David

Terry has sent me pictures of his car as it was in 1972 and of the Streun car and he'll be posting those here shortly. I'll be most interested in your views.

Allen

#32 Terry

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Posted 03 May 2002 - 15:55

Enclosed are photos of my T-53 as delivered to Bob Sutherland in l972 along with some in Alf Francis' shop somewhat later. I will try to caption most of the photos as to their significance. The later set are of Freddy Struen's car at various stages of restoration.

This photo is of the nose as delivered. Note the distictive air scoops Posted Image

This shows the opening for the exterior cooling tube used with the Maserati engine.
Posted Image

The next two show the Maserati five speed shifter in the cockpit.
Posted Image

Here the car is in Alf Francis' shop .
Posted Image

Here we see the Colatti box and note the five hole adjustable suspension pick up which seemed to be a Centro Sud modification.
Posted Image

Covered gas filler flap and cooling tube hole unique to Centro Sud.
Posted Image

The next two are from Alf Francis.
Posted Image

Again note the adjustable suspension.
Posted Image

The following photos are of Freddy Struens car.
Posted Image

#33 Allen Brown

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Posted 03 May 2002 - 19:21

OK all you Cooper experts. Here we have pictures of four Coopers: the Abate and Bandini cars in 1963 and the Sutherland/Terry Hefty and Fredy Streun cars some years later.

Is there enough information here to establish which car is which?
Can we show that the Sutherland/Hefty car and the Streun car are definitely ex-Centro-Sud?
Can we connect the Bandini car to the Sutherland/Hefty car?
Can we connect the Abate car to the Streun car?
Or the other way round?
Can we tell if these cars are all T53s or could be doctored T51s?

I'm no frame expert but I know we have some on TNF.

Allen

#34 Doug Nye

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Posted 03 May 2002 - 21:06

As far as I can see definitive T53 frames, both of them. The point being that the restored car is definitive T53 now, but what was it like when it began restoration...???? How much did they start with?? Probably v.similar bunch of junk to Terry's 'as found'. The frame in Alf Francis' shop looks AOK to me. The body on Terry's car 'as found' resembles that on the Abate Imola car in some respects, under-nose intake, scuttle top duct etc. Interesting stuff...

If this is evidence that Centro Sud did indeed run two T53s whereas you can only trace one having gone to them Allen don't get into too much of a lurid mental oversteer...remember that SCS had available to them blokes who could run you up anything in welded tubes from a budgie cage to the Forth Bridge, as long as you felt it was worth digging in your pocket to pay them. And in any case a bare Cooper spare frame from Surbiton would not have cost much at all...and would have been much less trouble.

DCN

#35 Allen Brown

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Posted 03 May 2002 - 22:15

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Allen don't get into too much of a lurid mental oversteer...

I'm afraid my brain only gently understeers nowadays.

Originally posted by Doug Nye
SCS had available to them blokes who could run you up anything in welded tubes from a budgie cage to the Forth Bridge ... And in any case a bare Cooper spare frame from Surbiton would not have cost much at all ... and would have been much less trouble.

I agree - if the frame is AOK as you say, it would seem more likely that they bought a retired frame from Cooper or even second or third-hand frame to build up the second T53. Looking through the known T53s, all can still be accounted for by April 1963, with the exception of my purported "extra" Yeoman-Credit car, so an ex-works frame seems a distinct possibility. If it was from Cooper, they wouldn't have been building up new T53 frames in 1963 so there is always the chance it was a previously-used frame, maybe (very "maybe") even a 1960 works car? We still don't know where all of those went.

Were there any visible frame differences between the 1960 works cars and the 1961 production cars?

Allen

#36 Doug Nye

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Posted 04 May 2002 - 08:03

Coo blimey - make the questions easy......hold on a while...

DCN

#37 Terry

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Posted 06 May 2002 - 21:46

After tomorrow, I will be unavailable for two weeks. I will check in upon my return and address any questions that may have appeared in the interim. Thank you all for your interest and help.

Terry

#38 Terry

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Posted 09 July 2002 - 22:05

I was wondering if anyone had any new thoughts regarding the second Centro Sud T-53 after having a chance to review the photos that I supplied. If there are any questions or additional information or photos wanted I will be happy to supply what I can from the files on my car.

Allen, regarding your website listing the various T-53's I believe that you can safely combine the Sutherland car and the Hefty car as I can assure you that I did purchase my car from Bob Sutherland. I also feel that, from what has been presented, that my car is a Centro Sud T-53. I have to leave it to the experts to tell us more.

By the way, I will be running the car at the Historics and the Pre- Historics at Monterey in August .
If any of you are there, stop by, look the car over and say hello.

Regards to all, Terry

#39 Allen Brown

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Posted 10 July 2002 - 09:28

Terry

I did have some additional comments via email from Eric Perrin in Switzerland which I will post up. But you are right that I can now combine the Sutherland entry with yours. I also think it can be combined with my entry for 'the second C-S car'. Are you comfortable with that?

My site is overdue for an update - but it always is :

Allen

#40 pedro

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Posted 10 July 2002 - 17:50

I feel embarrassed interrupting this important discussion on Cooper identities to bring up some pedantic nonsense about spelling, but so far we’ve had Pinroth, Prinoth and Prinroth. Come on, guys - not good enough!

Incidentally, does anyone know what colour Mister Rinproth’s car was? (If I don’t ask, Barry Boor will).

And as photos of this Imola race seem to abound, does anyone have one of Starrabba’s Lotus-Maserati?

And finally, dragging myself back to the subject of Centro Sud, what is that mysterious ‘spare car’ entry for Abate – a Porsche 718? Did Centro Sud have a 718?

#41 fines

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9,647 posts
Joined: September 00

Posted 11 July 2002 - 15:36

Ernesto Prinoth, I think!

And about the spare car, I seem to remember Abate having a 718 of his own??

#42 Charles Helps

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383 posts
Joined: November 04

Posted 06 May 2006 - 13:07

Coys have a Cooper Maserati claimed to be chassis 12 and ex Scuderia Centro-Sud in their Legende et Passion sale at Monaco - is this one of the cars already mentioned in this thread? Just curious - I'm not about to bid for it!

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