Midgets Doodlebugs Thunderbugs

No, not insects, cars.

Since we've allowed a rally thread on TNF due to occasional participation by GP drivers, I thought a query on midgets might also pass.

After all, Jack Brabham came from the small dirt ovals, as did a number of the starters at the Indy 500 during the years it qualified for the world championship.

So, can anyone help with information on midget car racing in Britain duirng the 1930s?

That includes cars built by Jean Reville (Englishman of French descent), and also the 4wd Skirrows.

Reville, who settled in Australia in the late 1930s, after racing here, said he started building and racing his (ugly) cars in England in the very early 1930s, years before the Americans say the sport officially began, in 1933.

Drivers who came from England to race in Australia included Jean Reville, Ralph Secretan, and Bud Stanley.

At the time, it was claimed that Secretan had raced extensively at Brooklands - but you can't believe too much of what you read in a speedway programme. Any further information on this would be helpful.

Two English-built Skirrows came to Australia (different models, at different times) during the 1930s.

In the USA the cars were called Midgets, in England - among other things, I believe - Doodlebugs, in Australia they started as Midgets, very quickly were renamed Speedcars. Sometimes the term Thunderbugs also was used.

Any help with information would be greatly appreciated.

The sport didn't catch on in a big way in Britain, I believe because the speedway solo organisers opposed it on all fronts - afraid the cars might steal their thunder.

Post WWII a troupe of US midgets made a tour and drew good crowds, but again, the sport did not take off in the UK.

This include roadsters, the first cousins of the midgets?

Barry; Seems to me we were in touch regarding 1930s midget racing in England. Did I send you some material and some photo or is this another thing that I forgot to do? I do have a couple of dozen midget photos from England and this includes the 1948 "invasion" by the US midgets.

Don Capps referred to midgets as the first cousins to roadsters. This is certainly not true in the US but I've heard just a bit of information that in England the midgets could have evoloved from some small roadsters that were raced on the cinder speedway bike tracks. Hopefully this thread will turn up some information on this sort of thing

http://www.atlasf1.c...t=Palace midget

Well, Don, that was one way of luring you out of the mists.... ..... and I cannot thank you enough for the books on the Roadsters, which were, well, Roadsters....

Well, we achieved something here; we got Don Radbruch back onto The Nostalgia Forum!

Yes, Don, you did remember to send that material and it is much appreciated. But, like Oliver Twist, I want more.

Since I last had contact with you I have seen a letter from a historian, quoting Jean Reville - and with photocopies of dated "evidence" - saying he was building and racing midgets in the UK long before they were supposedly "invented" in the USA in 1933.

Of course, there also is evidence that midget-like cars (but not so-named, apparently) raced in the USA before that "official" start in 1933.

I thought that while all these keen TNF researchers were looking for GP material of the era, they might stumble across some important information on these cars, or their drivers.

Likewise for evidence that Ralph Secretan did, or did not, race at Brooklands.

And anything on Tom Sulman, an Australian who raced a couple of different self-made cars on British dirt tracks in that era, including his famous Sulman Singer. I would like to know how he and his cars fitted into this midget racing story. And, to qualify this for TNF, Tom raced a GP Maserati in Australia in the 1950s - a 4CL, was it?

And then there was Bill Reynolds, an Englishman who brought a Skirrow midget to Australia in the late 1930s. Not long before he died, in the 1970s, Bill told me he had started on motorcycles at Brooklands. I would be interested to know any of his history in the UK before departing for Australia (where he stayed for the rest of his life, incidentally). And to keep the GP connection
going, Bill did quite a bit of road racing in Australia as well as speedway. His mounts included a Cooper Mk IV JAP, which I believe was just like the one in which GP star Raymond Sommer was killed at Cadours in 1950. And, for that matter, like the car Harry Schell raced in the Monaco GP of, hmmm, what year was that again?

We have had an influx of new people here in recent times, also, which opens up the chances somewhat (I hope).

I can only try.

PS Don, don't tell the story about how Frank 'Satan' Brewer said he had a feel of Lana Turner's breasts when she presented him with a trophy on that 1948 tour of England. I don't think you're allowed to talk about such things on TNF.

Barry and others;

No, I won't mention Frank Brewer's non-racing relationship with Lana Turner. Rosie Roussel, who was on the 1948 midget tour of England, remembers that Lana had no time for the "common folks" and was interested only in herself.

The early (1910s) "midgets" were called "Cycle Cars" or, in one case, "Junior Automobiles". They were powered by motorcycle engines and, for the most part, had motorcycle wheels and tires. A few had wheels more fitting to the later midgets and I guess these could be called midgets. The cycle cars mostly appear in support events for championship races. If they had seperate races of their own this has, thus far, been lost to history. The cycle cars just did not catch on and disappered sometime before around 1920.

How about in Europe? Did any cycle cars show up there and perhaps provide training for future GP drivers?

Barry, with the diverse interests and knowledge of TNF, I join you in hoping all sorts of things will show up on this tread

Photocopying phool that I am, I have an article by R.E.P. Secretan on Midget Racing In England from National Auto Racing News, Feb. 24, 1938.

From the full-page article: "...four years ago a mechanic named Ted Andrews built for the 1935 British champ, Jean Reville, the first English midget racer. This was a front wheel drive and performed well with a small J.A.P. motor. He also laid out and built the first four wheel drive doodle which, due to its owner's absence in Australia, never actually competed, however."

There's much more. 1937 champions were: Midland champion, W. Mackereth; Southern champion, Spike Rhiando (Spike! you're legit!); and official speedway champion of Great Britain, Victor Paterson, captain of the London League team.

Will try to get a clear copy of the article made this weekend and off to you soon.
Brian Pratt
Burnaby, BC, Canada
p.s., no mention of Secretan and Brooklands.