Chequered (or Checkered, if you must!) Flag [merged]

Originally posted by jarama
bournenville, there are various threads in the history of TNF about the chequered flag. With the "Search BB" engine you can access to all of them. Carles.

Originally posted by bigears
I made a similar thread when I first joined up in this forum:

Click here...

Interesting contribution to this long-dormant topic - in which I've taken the opportunity to merge and tidy several older threads - from none other than HSH Prince Albert of Monaco, who claimed on Channel 4's introductory coverage of the GP that the chequered flag was invented by an official of the AC de Monaco.

Obviously previous contributions to this thread prove that to be unlikely, but I can believe it might have been used in the pre-Great War Monte Carlo Rallies.

As had been mentioned, a chequered flag was sometimes used to signal the finish of late 19th Century French cycle races, though maybe they used a tablecloth borrowed from a typical local bistro, and I've seen something much the same in early photos of speedboat races as well, but has anyone mentioned this one? Rather earlier than some of the dates suggested. It's the finish of the 1906 Vanderbilt Cup race.

I've had some difficulty posting this, Photobucket have made some changes, and although I usually managed to cope with the old system, this new one seems to have been made more complicated. Doesn't that always seem to be the way with these "improvements"? See my tagline.

Edited by kayemod, 28 May 2017 - 17:46.

Edited by 2F-001, 28 May 2017 - 19:20.

Doesn't that always seem to be the way with these "improvements"? See my tagline.

During the excruciatingly embarrassing session of fawning-over-the-Royals at the lunch table ...

Or 'lunch with the neighbours' as DC no doubt viewed it

1906 Glidden Tour.*

Alternative Facts running amok as usual or simply the usual failure to do any research?

*Fred R. Egloff, Origin of the Checker Flag: A Search for Racing's Holy Grail, Watkins Glen, New York: International Motor Racing Research Center, 2006.

I happened to read the little book, The Donington Grands Prix, which consisted mostly of reprints of the 4 programs ('35-'38)

Under Official Flag Signals, I found the following:

National Flag: Starting Flag

Yellow Flag: Stop instantly (35,36) / Red Flag: Signal for complete and immediate stop (37,38)

Chequered Flag over Competitor's number: Vehicle bearing that number has completed the course (35,36)

Green Flag: Race finished (35,36) / White Flag: Race finished (37,38)

So no chequered flag at the end  of the race, although it was known. and used. I suppose this is for handicap races or races with different distances per class.

Just an example of Great Britain in the mid thirties

I don't understand, Hank - that's exactly how the chequered flag was always used!?! Any car that completes the course gets the "checker", and when all the cars are home and dry, the green (or white) flag signals the end of the contest.

It says: over a competitor's number. that means it is not for everybody. And how do you do that with a close finish? Was it still common in those days that all cars had to finish the full distance, even when lapped (possibly more than once)?

Oh, and in 37/38 there is no chequered flag at all. 

Edited by Henk Vasmel, 29 May 2017 - 17:42.

The national flag was used by the Duke of Kent for the start and a big chequered flag (it looks about a yard square) was certainly waved at Nuvolari as he crossed the line at Donington in 1938. I have just checked some film of it.

Donington 1938 was actually the origin of the red/yellow oil flag, due to the infamous Robin Hanson incident which took out Hasse and seriously delayed Seaman. Race reports and subsequent discussions mention that yellow 'danger flags' were considered insufficient warning of the slippery conditions so (at least by his own account!) Sammy Davis suggested the new flag to the RAC Competition Committee, who approved it nationally and also put it forward to the CSI.

So that means that what was printed in the program was just sourced from somewhere, and the actual flags used were different. These days we have "THE RULES" and anyone who sees a transgression tries to profit. In these days Nuvolari would have been disqualified for taking the wrong flag. Fortunately those days were much friendlier. And more realistic.

It says: over a competitor's number. that means it is not for everybody.

And how do you do that with a close finish?

Was it still common in those days that all cars had to finish the full distance, even when lapped (possibly more than once)?

Oh, and in 37/38 there is no chequered flag at all.

1906 Glidden Tour.*

 

Alternative Facts running amok as usual or simply the usual failure to do any research?

 

*Fred R. Egloff, Origin of the Checker Flag: A Search for Racing's Holy Grail, Watkins Glen, New York: International Motor Racing Research Center, 2006.

Don't shoot the messenger.

http://www.vanderbil..._cup_race_video

I claim no knowledge at all of early US racing, but this seems like a fairly authorative source, unless of course you know better.

Regarding the use of the chequered flag with a number displayed, that would likely be because the race regulations allowed following drivers a limited amount of time to complete the full race distance after the race winner crossed the line in order to be classified. At Indianapolis at that time I think they were allowed half an hour? This would be unusual for Donington Park though, because they ran very few long scratch races with massed starts; more usually their longer distance races were 'hare and hounds' class handicaps, with starters released in batches according to engine size at pre-determined times. I guess Donington might have allowed fifteen minutes leeway in 1935, when Eccles/Fairfield were classified sixth, nearly 13 minutes behind Shuttleworth and ten minutes in 1936 when Austin Dobson was classified sixth, 9'38" behind Ruesch/Seaman. Ten minutes again in 1937, when Hasse was over eight minutes behind Rosemeyer, but the system changed to the one we know today in 1938 - that was the first time drivers who hadn't completed the full distance were classified as finishers. See also the results for the 1937 JCC 200 (15 minutes allowed) and 1939 Nuffield Trophy (all finishers still running were classified, no time allowance)

And we won't even get into the massed start credit lap system they used for the Tourist Trophy ...

The 1963 Armstrong 500, at Bathurst, had no outright winner, only class winners. When the leading car crossed the line, after completing 500 miles, a board displaying the words "RACE FINISHED" was held out.

Regarding the use of the chequered flag with a number displayed, that would likely be because the race regulations allowed following drivers a limited amount of time to complete the full race distance after the race winner crossed the line in order to be classified. At Indianapolis at that time I think they were allowed half an hour?

Edited by Michael Ferner, 30 May 2017 - 18:15.

Rosemeyer crossing the line, Donington 1937. Someone who appears to be another official is holding up a board ...

Rosemeyer crossing the line, Donington 1937. Someone who appears to be another official is holding up a board ...

 

...which would suggest that each finisher was shown the chequered flag individually?

1906 Glidden Tour.*

 

Alternative Facts running amok as usual or simply the usual failure to do any research?

 

*Fred R. Egloff, Origin of the Checker Flag: A Search for Racing's Holy Grail, Watkins Glen, New York: International Motor Racing Research Center, 2006.

Don't shoot the messenger.

 

http://www.vanderbil..._cup_race_video

 

I claim no knowledge at all of early US racing, but this seems like a fairly authorative source, unless of course you know better.

Because Egloff provided the sources for his research in the form of footnotes and an extensive bibliography, I was able to follow the path of his research and then understand how he came to his conclusions. (One might suggest, of course, that this is how such things are supposed to work.)

Likewise, I have found nothing credible in the many other theories (folklore, myths, fantasies) that have been suggested over the years that would lead me to cast any doubt on the veracity of Egloff's work.

Originally posted by GMACKIE
The 1963 Armstrong 500, at Bathurst, had no outright winner, only class winners. When the leading car crossed the line, after completing 500 miles, a board displaying the words "RACE FINISHED" was held out.

Ford, in their adverts after the race, altered the board to look like a chequered  flag. The organizers were not amused, as they never intended to have a 'outright winner'.