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2005 AQUA championship

Started by scheivlak , Jul 11 2005 11:33

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32 replies to this topic

#1 scheivlak

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 11:33

Let's have a look at the 2005 standings of Border Reiver's brainchild, the AQUA (Atlas Quite Unreasonable Alternative) championship, using the highest finish as the defining result and after that the number of highest finishes as a tiebreaker.
See for 2004: http://forums.atlasf...&highlight=AQUA

How does it stand now?

1. Alonso 5x1st
2. Raikkonen 3x1st
3. M Schumacher 1x1st, 2x2nd
4. Fisichella 1x1st, 1x4th, 1x5th, 2x6th
5. Montoya 1x1st, 1x4th, 1x5th, 1x6th
6. Barrichello 2x2nd, 2x3rd
7. Trulli 2x2nd, 1x3rd, 2x5th
8. Heidfeld 2x2nd, 1x3rd, 1x6th
9. Webber 1x3rd, 2x5th
10. Monteiro 1x3rd, 2x10th :drunk:

11. Wurz 1x3rd

12. R Schumacher 2x4th, 1x5th
13. Coulthard 2x4th, 1x6th
14. Button 1x4th, 1x5th
15. Massa 1x4th, 1x7th
16. Villeneuve 1x4th, 1x8th
17. Karthikeyan 1x4th, 1x11th
18. Albers 1x5th, 1x11th
19. de la Rosa 1x5th
20. Friesacher 1x6th
21. Klien 1x7th
22. Liuzzi 1x8th
23. Sato 1x11th

Interesting to see if Alonso keeps this one.

#2 scheivlak

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 11:38

2005 AQUA WCC:

1. Renault 6x1st
2. McLaren 4x1st
3. Ferrari 1x1st
4. Williams 2x2nd, 2x3rd
5. Toyota 2x2nd, 1x3rd
6. Jordan 1x3rd :drunk:

7. Red Bull 2x4th, 1x6th
8. Sauber 2x4th, 1x7th
9. BAR 1x4th
10. Minardi 1x5th

#3 howardt

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 11:46

Hey that's not bad, y'know.
If I had to build a completely subjective list of the teams' & drivers' relative performance, it would actually be pretty close to that, apart from the anomalies caused by Indy.

Although I (and HSJ is with me on this ;-) would say that Mclaren are quicker than Renault. Their 2nd place in AQUA is a reflection of their reliability, not speed.

Be interesting to match this up to the real championships at the end of the season.

#4 scheivlak

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Posted 25 July 2005 - 09:30

Revised standings after the German GP:

1. Alonso 6x1st
2. Raikkonen 3x1st
3. M Schumacher 1x1st, 2x2nd
4. Montoya 1x1st, 1x2nd
5. Fisichella 1x1st, 2x4th
6. Barrichello 2x2nd, 2x3rd
7. Trulli 2x2nd, 1x3rd, 2x5th
8. Heidfeld 2x2nd, 1x3rd, 1x6th
9. Button 1x3rd, 1x4th :up:

10. Webber 1x3rd, 2x5th
11. Monteiro 1x3rd, 2x10th
12. Wurz 1x3rd
13. R.Schumacher 2x4th, 1x5th
14. Coulthard 2x4th, 1x6th
15. Massa 1x4th, 1x7th
16. Villeneuve 1x4th, 1x8th
17. Karthikeyan 1x4th, 1x11th
18. Albers 1x5th, 1x11th
19. de la Rosa 1x5th
20. Friesacher 1x6th
21. Klien 1x7th
22. Liuzzi 1x8th
23. Sato 1x11th
24. Doornbos 1x18th

WCC:

1. Renault 7x1st
2. McLaren 4x1st
3. Ferrari 1x1st
4. Williams 2x2nd, 2x3rd
5. Toyota 2x2nd, 1x3rd
6. BAR 1x3rd, 1x 4th, 1x5th :up:

7. Jordan 1x3rd, 1x 4th, 2x10th
8. Red Bull 2x4th, 1x6th
9. Sauber 2x4th, 1x7th
10. Minardi 1x5th

#5 scheivlak

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Posted 01 August 2005 - 10:20

Update after the Hungarian GP:

1. Alonso 6x1st
2. Raikkonen 4x1st
3. M Schumacher 1x1st, 3x2nd
4. Montoya 1x1st, 1x2nd
5. Fisichella 1x1st, 2x4th
6. Barrichello 2x2nd, 2x3rd
7. Trulli 2x2nd, 1x3rd, 1x4th
8. Heidfeld 2x2nd, 1x3rd, 2x6th
9. R.Schumacher 1x3rd, 2x4th
10. Button 1x3rd, 1x4th
11. Webber 1x3rd, 2x5th
12. Monteiro 1x3rd, 2x10th
13. Wurz 1x3rd
14. Coulthard 2x4th, 1x6th
15. Massa 1x4th, 1x7th
16. Villeneuve 1x4th, 1x8th
17. Karthikeyan 1x4th, 1x11th
18. Albers 1x5th, 1x11th
19. de la Rosa 1x5th
20. Friesacher 1x6th
21. Klien 1x7th
22. Liuzzi 1x8th, 1x9th
23. Sato 1x8th, 1x11th
24. Doornbos 1x18th

WCC:

1. Renault 7x1st
2. McLaren 5x1st
3. Ferrari 1x1st
4. Toyota 2x2nd, 2x3rd, 3x4th
5. Williams 2x2nd, 2x3rd, 2x5th
6. BAR 1x3rd, 1x 4th, 2x5th
7. Jordan 1x3rd, 1x 4th, 2x10th
8. Red Bull 2x4th, 1x6th
9. Sauber 2x4th, 1x7th
10. Minardi 1x5th

Still open! A move forward for Ralf and Toyota.

#6 scheivlak

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 20:46

Getting closer in both championships......

1. Alonso 6x1st
2. Raikkonen 5x1st
3. M Schumacher 1x1st, 3x2nd
4. Montoya 1x1st, 1x2nd
5. Fisichella 1x1st, 3x4th
6. Barrichello 2x2nd, 2x3rd
7. Trulli 2x2nd, 1x3rd, 1x4th
8. Heidfeld 2x2nd, 1x3rd, 2x6th
9. R.Schumacher 1x3rd, 2x4th
10. Button 1x3rd, 1x4th
11. Webber 1x3rd, 2x5th
12. Monteiro 1x3rd, 2x10th
13. Wurz 1x3rd
14. Coulthard 2x4th
15. Massa 1x4th, 1x7th
16. Villeneuve 1x4th, 1x8th
17. Karthikeyan 1x4th, 1x11th
18. Albers 1x5th, 1x11th
19. de la Rosa 1x5th
20. Friesacher 1x6th
21. Klien 1x7th
22. Sato 1x8th, 1x9th, 1x11th
23. Liuzzi 1x8th, 1x9th
24. Doornbos 1x13th

WCC:

1. Renault 7x1st
2. McLaren 6x1st
3. Ferrari 1x1st
4. Toyota 2x2nd, 2x3rd, 3x4th
5. Williams 2x2nd, 2x3rd, 2x5th
6. BAR 1x3rd, 1x 4th, 3x5th
7. Jordan 1x3rd, 1x 4th, 2x10th
8. Red Bull 2x4th, 1x6th
9. Sauber 2x4th, 1x7th
10. Minardi 1x5th

#7 ensign14

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 21:33

Far more interesting than the REAL points race, n'est-ce pas?

#8 BorderReiver

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 00:40

I'm really, really, really chuffed you are keeping this idea alive Scheivlak. Keep up the excellent work.

As for this years AQUA race, it's very exciting, and I suspect, at the years end, we might well have a different AQUA champion to the Official WDC. Which, looking as the results historically, seems to suggest a talent sometimes loses out in the "official" standings.

#9 lukywill

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 06:27

so far i read 6 for alonso and 5 for kimi. 6 > 5

#10 scheivlak

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 23:17

Originally posted by BorderReiver
I'm really, really, really chuffed you are keeping this idea alive Scheivlak. Keep up the excellent work.

As they say, it's my pleasure!

#11 100cc

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 03:07

Originally posted by lukywill
so far i read 6 for alonso and 5 for kimi. 6 > 5

stating the obvious. :confused:

#12 The Fazz

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 05:31

Looks like Kimi will be the easy winner of the AQUA championship, and Montoya will overhaul Schumi and perhaps even run Alonso close.

#13 mark f1

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 12:37

Originally posted by The Fazz
Montoya will overhaul Schumi and perhaps even run Alonso close .

So you're saying that Montoya may win another 5 races this year, with 5 races left to run...hmmm.. :confused:

#14 scheivlak

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Posted 04 September 2005 - 14:49

Little update -
It's between Fernando and Kimi, nothing's decided yet.
WCC is even closer now.

1. Alonso 6x1st
2. Raikkonen 5x1st
3. Montoya 2x1st
4. M Schumacher 1x1st, 3x2nd
5. Fisichella 1x1st, 1x3rd
6. Barrichello 2x2nd, 2x3rd
7. Trulli 2x2nd, 1x3rd, 1x4th
8. Heidfeld 2x2nd, 1x3rd, 2x6th
9. R.Schumacher 1x3rd, 2x4th
10. Button 1x3rd, 1x4th
11. Webber 1x3rd, 2x5th
12. Monteiro 1x3rd, 2x10th
13. Wurz 1x3rd
14. Coulthard 2x4th
15. Massa 1x4th, 1x7th
16. Villeneuve 1x4th, 1x8th
17. Karthikeyan 1x4th, 1x11th
18. Albers 1x5th, 1x11th
19. de la Rosa 1x5th
20. Friesacher 1x6th
21. Klien 1x7th, 3x8th
22. Pizzonia 1x7th
23. Sato 1x8th, 1x9th, 1x11th
24. Liuzzi 1x8th, 1x9th
25. Doornbos 1x13th

WCC:

1. Renault 7x1st, 4x2nd
2. McLaren 7x1st, 2x2nd
3. Ferrari 1x1st
4. Toyota 2x2nd, 2x3rd, 3x4th
5. Williams 2x2nd, 2x3rd, 2x5th
6. BAR 1x3rd, 1x 4th, 3x5th
7. Jordan 1x3rd, 1x 4th, 2x10th
8. Red Bull 2x4th, 1x6th
9. Sauber 2x4th, 1x7th
10. Minardi 1x5th

#15 MrAerodynamicist

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Posted 05 September 2005 - 18:49

IMO this should be titled ATSA - Atlas Total Superior Alternative. I've long held the view that a most wins system is the only one that correctly reflects that motorsport is about. Historically, the F1 points system has always been such that two seconds is worth more than a single win. Poppycock. The Holy Grail of racing, and the point of getting out of bed on Sunday, is to win.

Take Oliver Panis' Monaco '96 win. To me that is not only the peak of his F1 career, it eclipses the entire sum of the rest.

An added bonus would be that there's almost no circumstance when it's better to cruise for a position than to at least have an attempt at racing the guy in front. Obviously you don't want to try too hard and get a DNF, but getting that extra position is always going to be so darn valuable (even if it's just the difference between 8th and 7th)

To respond to a very old comment (in the '03 thread)

Originally posted by BorderReiver
I have to say I loathe this system, winning is important of course, but sometimes people fight the hardest races of their lives and only manage a second. Ivan Capelli's amazing work with Leyton House springs to mind. .

But Capelli would not have gone unrewarded under the Most Wins system. Instead of being ranked 7th at season end, his 1x2nd + 1x3rd would have ranked him 6th. (Mansell would have been the real winner, his 2x2nd would have jumped him from 9th to 4th)

#16 scheivlak

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 19:20

Kimi Raikkonen has leveled the score in wins this season.
Both Kimi and Fernando have 6 wins. Alonso now only leads because of his 5 second places, but the momentum seems to be with Kimi.
Some minor changes below: Button and Jacques moved up a bit.

1. Alonso 6x1st, 5x2nd
2. Raikkonen 6x1st, 1x2nd
3. Montoya 2x1st
4. M Schumacher 1x1st, 3x2nd
5. Fisichella 1x1st, 1x3rd
6. Barrichello 2x2nd, 2x3rd
7. Trulli 2x2nd, 1x3rd, 1x4th
8. Heidfeld 2x2nd, 1x3rd, 2x6th
9. Button 2x3rd
10. R Schumacher 1x3rd, 2x4th
11. Webber 1x3rd, 1x4th
12. Monteiro 1x3rd, 1x8th
13. Wurz 1x3rd
14. Coulthard 2x4th
15. Villeneuve 1x4th, 1x6th
16. Massa 1x4th, 1x7th
17. Karthikeyan 1x4th, 2x11th
18. Albers 1x5th, 1x11th
19. de la Rosa 1x5th
20. Friesacher 1x6th
21. Klien 1x7th, 3x8th
22. Pizzonia 1x7th, 1x15th
23. Sato 1x8th, 1x9th, 1x11th
24. Liuzzi 1x8th, 1x9th
25. Doornbos 2x13th

A fourth McLaren win in a row now also means that McLaren is leading the AQUA WCC!

1. McLaren 8x1st
2. Renault 7x1st
3. Ferrari 1x1st
4. Toyota 2x2nd, 2x3rd, 3x4th
5. Williams 2x2nd, 2x3rd, 1x4th
6. BAR 2x3rd
7. Jordan 1x3rd
8. Red Bull 2x4th, 1x6th, 4x7th
9. Sauber 2x4th, 1x6th, 1x7th
10. Minardi 1x5th

#17 Menace

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 19:23

Thank you scheivlak. :up:

#18 scheivlak

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 07:32

Raikkonen's 2nd place didn't help him much; if Fernando wins in Japan he's the 2005 AQUA WDC. OTOH if Kimi wins there, Alonso has to win in China to become champion.
So the suspense remains!

Montoya's victory almost assures him of 3rd in this championship; no changes behind him.
Behind the top three anybody can still end up 4th.

1. Alonso 6x1st, 5x2nd
2. Raikkonen 6x1st, 2x2nd
3. Montoya 3x1st
4. M Schumacher 1x1st, 3x2nd
5. Fisichella 1x1st, 1x3rd
6. Barrichello 2x2nd, 2x3rd
7. Trulli 2x2nd, 1x3rd, 1x4th
8. Heidfeld 2x2nd, 1x3rd, 2x6th
9. Button 2x3rd
10. R Schumacher 1x3rd, 2x4th
11. Webber 1x3rd, 1x4th
12. Monteiro 1x3rd, 1x8th
13. Wurz 1x3rd
14. Coulthard 2x4th
15. Villeneuve 1x4th, 1x6th
16. Massa 1x4th, 1x7th
17. Karthikeyan 1x4th, 2x11th
18. Albers 1x5th, 1x11th
19. de la Rosa 1x5th
20. Friesacher 1x6th
21. Klien 1x7th, 3x8th
22. Pizzonia 1x7th, 1x15th
23. Sato 1x8th, 1x9th, 1x11th
24. Liuzzi 1x8th, 1x9th
25. Doornbos 2x13th

McLaren are very close to winning the WCC. Renault has to win the remaining GPs. If McLaren ends up second in both races, third places will decide - and that can go either way depending of how the teams score in Japan and China.
Anybody else can still get third in the AQUA WCC!

1. McLaren 9x1st
2. Renault 7x1st
3. Ferrari 1x1st
4. Toyota 2x2nd, 2x3rd, 3x4th
5. Williams 2x2nd, 2x3rd, 1x4th
6. BAR 2x3rd
7. Jordan 1x3rd
8. Red Bull 2x4th, 1x6th, 4x7th
9. Sauber 2x4th, 1x6th, 1x7th
10. Minardi 1x5th

#19 lukywill

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 16:12

Originally posted by scheivlak
if Fernando wins in Japan he's the 2005 AQUA WDC. OTOH if Kimi wins there, Alonso has to win in China to become champion.
So the suspense remains!

very interesting.
i´ll bet jpm will win susuka and that china will decide the aWDC.

#20 ensign14

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 16:48

Can someone pass this thread to Fernando? :lol:

#21 scheivlak

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 12:57

With a dramatic last lap pass Kimi Raikkonen took the lead in the 2005 AQUA Championship!
Now Fernando simply has to win in China to claim the title.

Mark Webber gains a spot as well.

1. Raikkonen 7x1st
2. Alonso 6x1st
3. Montoya 3x1st
4. M Schumacher 1x1st, 3x2nd
5. Fisichella 1x1st, 1x2nd
6. Barrichello 2x2nd, 2x3rd
7. Trulli 2x2nd, 1x3rd, 1x4th
8. Heidfeld 2x2nd, 1x3rd, 2x6th
9. Button 2x3rd
10. Webber 1x3rd, 2x4th, 2x5th
11. R Schumacher 1x3rd, 2x4th, 1x5th
12. Monteiro 1x3rd, 1x8th
13. Wurz 1x3rd
14. Coulthard 2x4th
15. Villeneuve 1x4th, 1x6th
16. Massa 1x4th, 1x7th
17. Karthikeyan 1x4th, 2x11th
18. Albers 1x5th, 1x11th
19. de la Rosa 1x5th
20. Friesacher 1x6th
21. Klien 1x7th, 3x8th
22. Pizzonia 1x7th, 1x15th
23. Sato 1x8th, 1x9th, 1x11th
24. Liuzzi 1x8th, 1x9th
25. Doornbos 2x13th

WCC:

McLaren wins the 2005 WCC title!
Between Toyota and Williams it's even closer now, while Red Bull Racing gained another 6th place.

1. McLaren 10x1st
2. Renault 7x1st
3. Ferrari 1x1st
4. Toyota 2x2nd, 2x3rd, 3x4th
5. Williams 2x2nd, 2x3rd, 2x4th
6. BAR 2x3rd
7. Jordan 1x3rd
8. Red Bull 2x4th, 2x6th
9. Sauber 2x4th, 1x6th
10. Minardi 1x5th

#22 BorderReiver

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 13:43

Well, it looks very much like we might be getting our first "changed" result since the late 1980s. Interesting . . . . .

#23 santori

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 13:51

By European Championship rules of the 1930s, Alonso is leading with 46 points from Raikkonen with 53 (the fewer points being the better).

#24 BorderReiver

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 13:58

Originally posted by santori
By European Championship rules of the 1930s, Alonso is leading with 46 points from Raikkonen with 53 (the fewer points being the better).

How nice for him.

By the rule's I've just made up in my head Guiseppe Farina is still actually the reigning World Champion.

Both statements have no relevance at all to this thread.

#25 santori

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 14:03

It is as 'interesting' and has as much relevance to today's championship as the AQUA rules.

#26 BorderReiver

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 14:07

Originally posted by santori
It is as 'interesting' and has as much relevance to today's championship as the AQUA rules.

The AQUA system is one that only awards individual victory. The European Championship don't, IIRC they are based primarily round the reliability of the National Marques entered, in a far more liberal era of driver seating.

I'd ask you which is more relevant to a Driver's Championship.

#27 santori

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 14:12

The one which has been a driver's championship? But I don't want to get into an argument with you - yours are some of the most considered posts on the board.

#28 Dolph

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 16:13

Originally posted by santori
The one which has been a driver's championship? But I don't want to get into an argument with you - yours are some of the most considered posts on the board.

be a man, won't you :rolleyes:

#29 armonico

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 16:18

Originally posted by BorderReiver
Well, it looks very much like we might be getting our first "changed" result since the late 1980s. Interesting . . . . .

With the stewards interfering with the race, of course.

#30 BorderReiver

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 17:24

Originally posted by armonico

With the stewards interfering with the race, of course.

*yawns*

The fact is, if the McLaren wasn't so fragile Raikkonen would've wrapped up AQUA weeks ago, and perhaps be honing in on the official WDC too.

You go on pretending otherwise if you like.

#31 santori

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 17:56

Originally posted by Dolph

be a man, won't you

Most people here seem to take races for an excuse to be men. This morning I was convinced I'd just watched two of the best drives in one of the most exciting races which has been run while I've been watching F1 and I think now I'm going to slip in the tape and watch it again to remind myself of that.
Because these threads of people being men and shouting at each other that one or the other of Kimi or Fernando doesn't deserve the championship or victory or whatever are godawfully depressing.

#32 giddyup409

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Posted 16 October 2005 - 07:54

fred's gift to border reiver: 05 aqua championship

btw, is there any other championship you want fred to compete in?

#33 scheivlak

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Posted 16 October 2005 - 08:48

The 2005 AQUA Championship went down to the wire!
Fernando Alonso knew ;) that he just had to win, and win he did!

And so FA and KR ended both on 7 wins, but Fernando's 5 second places decided the championship. It must have been one of the closest AQUAs ever.

Congratulations to the most succesful driver of the year: Fernando Alonso!

There were some more late changes in the overall standings: Ralf, Felipe Massa and Christian Klien all moved up.

AQUA Championship 2005 Final standings:

1. Alonso 7x1st, 5x2nd
2. Raikkonen 7x1st, 3x2nd
3. Montoya 3x1st
4. M Schumacher 1x1st, 3x2nd
5. Fisichella 1x1st, 1x2nd
6. Barrichello 2x2nd, 2x3rd
7. Trulli 2x2nd, 1x3rd, 1x4th
8. Heidfeld 2x2nd, 1x3rd, 2x6th
9. R Schumacher 2x3rd, 2x4th
10. Button 2x3rd, 1x4th
11. Webber 1x3rd, 2x4th
12. Monteiro 1x3rd, 1x8th
13. Wurz 1x3rd
14. Coulthard 2x4th
15. Massa 1x4th, 1x6th, 1x7th
16. Villeneuve 1x4th, 1x6th, 1x8th
17. Karthikeyan 1x4th, 2x11th
18. Klien 1x5th, 1x7th
19. Albers 1x5th, 1x11th
20. de la Rosa 1x5th
21. Friesacher 1x6th
22. Pizzonia 1x7th, 1x15th
23. Sato 1x8th, 1x9th, 1x11th
24. Liuzzi 1x8th, 1x9th
25. Doornbos 2x13th

The AQUA WCC was out of reach for Renault.
Toyota just keeps Williams behind for 4th place.

1. McLaren 10x1st
2. Renault 8x1st
3. Ferrari 1x1st
4. Toyota 2x2nd, 3x3rd
5. Williams 2x2nd, 2x3rd
6. BAR 2x3rd
7. Jordan 1x3rd
8. Red Bull 2x4th, 1x5th
9. Sauber 2x4th, 1x6th
10. Minardi 1x5th

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