Does anyone know, or have an opinion, as to whether the 1916 Universal Trophy Race at Uniontown Speedway (board track) is, or should be considered, a Championship event for that year?
1916 Championship Season (USA) - Uniontown Speedway
Started by
LaRacasse
, Dec 02 2005 05:27
46 replies to this topic
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#2
Darren Galpin
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Posted 02 December 2005 - 08:19
The events for the 1916 AAA National Championship Trail were as follows:-
Metropolitan Trophy, Sheepshead Bay
Indianapolis 300 miles, Indianapolis
Chicago Speedway
Des Moines Speedway
Twin City Motor Speedway
Omaha Speedway
Montamarathon and Potlach Trophy, Tacoma
International Sweepstakes, Cincinnati Motor Speedway
Indianapolis 100 miles, Indianapolis
Astor Cup, Sheepshead Bay
Chicago Speedway
Harkness Trophy, Sheepshead Bay
Vanderbilt Cup, Santa Monica
Ascot Derby, Ascot Park
The Universal Trophy Race wasn't a championship event, although it may have been to the same standard. Do you mind posting what information you have on this event and where you found it at all?
Metropolitan Trophy, Sheepshead Bay
Indianapolis 300 miles, Indianapolis
Chicago Speedway
Des Moines Speedway
Twin City Motor Speedway
Omaha Speedway
Montamarathon and Potlach Trophy, Tacoma
International Sweepstakes, Cincinnati Motor Speedway
Indianapolis 100 miles, Indianapolis
Astor Cup, Sheepshead Bay
Chicago Speedway
Harkness Trophy, Sheepshead Bay
Vanderbilt Cup, Santa Monica
Ascot Derby, Ascot Park
The Universal Trophy Race wasn't a championship event, although it may have been to the same standard. Do you mind posting what information you have on this event and where you found it at all?
#3
Kvadrat
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Posted 02 December 2005 - 09:07
Which organization sanctioned the race?
#4
LaRacasse
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Posted 02 December 2005 - 10:05
I live near where the Uniontown Speedway was constructed, and it has been a matter of folklore around here for years. The first event at the track was in December of 1916. Three drivers (one person was a riding mechanic) were killed. I do not have much particular info. about the 1916 race otherwise. I believe it is true that this was not a points-paying event, even though in subsequent years it was. Would it be correct, therefore, to call it a National Non-Championship Event? I am fairly certain that many of the top drivers of the day competed in it.
I am not certain what organization, if any, sanctioned the 1916 race, although later races were santioned by the AAA.
My hope is to determine the precise location of the track, and have a historical marker placed there. Also, I am hoping to get those drivers who were killed greater recognition, and, of course, it would have aided me in doing so if the race had been a Championship event.
I will attempt to post more info. later.
I am not certain what organization, if any, sanctioned the 1916 race, although later races were santioned by the AAA.
My hope is to determine the precise location of the track, and have a historical marker placed there. Also, I am hoping to get those drivers who were killed greater recognition, and, of course, it would have aided me in doing so if the race had been a Championship event.
I will attempt to post more info. later.
#5
Gerr
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Posted 02 December 2005 - 17:24
Seems to me that it would be difficult to have two championship races (thousands of miles apart) the same week-end. Ascot being November 30th. All the top teams were in SoCal for the earlier Santa Monica races, anyway.
December in Pa. seems a bit dodgy for weather as well. I think snow and frost would be the norm and according to Brown's "American Speedways" the first scheduled race (11/25/16) was rained out.
Anyone have this lady's Uniontown book ?
http://www.shorepubl....com/about.html
December in Pa. seems a bit dodgy for weather as well. I think snow and frost would be the norm and according to Brown's "American Speedways" the first scheduled race (11/25/16) was rained out.
Anyone have this lady's Uniontown book ?
http://www.shorepubl....com/about.html
#6
gerrit stevens
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Posted 02 December 2005 - 20:17
I have taken a quick look in Dave Wallen's board track book.
Originally there was an annual hillclimb in Uniontpown since 1913. Five days before the 1916 event would have been held this event was cancelled because the Highway Department banned the closing of the road for a race. Charlie Johnson however wasn;t about to let racing get away that easily. He raised $ 100,000 to have Jack Prince build a board speedway. Just before the end of the year the track was ready. The AAA sanctioned the however it was too late for championship listing.
Practice and races were several times postponed because of rain and there were also several fatal accidents. On the first day of practice (Monday before Thanksgiving Day) a National driven by Charles Heist crashed killing riding mechanic Frank Bush instantly. The driver only lived a few hours longer.
The race was scheduled for Thanksgiving Day however rain again caused postponement.
On Saturday December 2 the race was finally held. The weather on race day was perfect and attendance figure was given as 25,000 but some estimates run as high as double that.
The first race was a Dealers, increased from 40 to 50 laps (56.25 miles) and was won by I.P. Fetterman in a Peerless.
There were 11 Indianapolis cars and drivers for the main event including Ralph DePalma (Mercedes), John DePalma (JJR Special), Art Klein (Premier), Louis Chevrolet (Frontenac), Hughie Hughes (Duesenberg).
Quotation from "Board Tracks".
"The 100 lap main event was a battle between Louis Chevrolet, Ralph DePalma and Dave Lewis (Olsen-Duesenberg) trading the lead and making the spectators glad they'd been patient. John DePalma dropped out and, at 75 laps, Hughie Hughes either ran into the inside rail or stalled on the banking, depending upon whose account you believe. He and his mechanic were safe and Hughes walked to the press box near the starting line. The timber structure held 20 reporters and about 100 other people. Hughes had turned his back to the action for a moment to talk to his car owner, J.E. Joskins of Chicago, when Frank Galvin lost control of his Premier while fourth.
The Indianapolis-built copy slid in an arc toward the press stand and knocked is to kindling. The Dublin-born Galvin nailed the English-born Hughie, who had survived two mishaps of his own that week. Hughes was dragged over a hundred feet under the Premier and was dead at the scene, along with riding mechanic Gaston Weigle. Galvin died the next day and one of the spectators succumbed shortly after.
The race wasn't stopped and Louis Chevrolet's Frontenac took the checkered flag after an hour, 14 minutes and 12.20 seconds leading Ralph DePalma and Klein."
Gerrit Stevens
Originally there was an annual hillclimb in Uniontpown since 1913. Five days before the 1916 event would have been held this event was cancelled because the Highway Department banned the closing of the road for a race. Charlie Johnson however wasn;t about to let racing get away that easily. He raised $ 100,000 to have Jack Prince build a board speedway. Just before the end of the year the track was ready. The AAA sanctioned the however it was too late for championship listing.
Practice and races were several times postponed because of rain and there were also several fatal accidents. On the first day of practice (Monday before Thanksgiving Day) a National driven by Charles Heist crashed killing riding mechanic Frank Bush instantly. The driver only lived a few hours longer.
The race was scheduled for Thanksgiving Day however rain again caused postponement.
On Saturday December 2 the race was finally held. The weather on race day was perfect and attendance figure was given as 25,000 but some estimates run as high as double that.
The first race was a Dealers, increased from 40 to 50 laps (56.25 miles) and was won by I.P. Fetterman in a Peerless.
There were 11 Indianapolis cars and drivers for the main event including Ralph DePalma (Mercedes), John DePalma (JJR Special), Art Klein (Premier), Louis Chevrolet (Frontenac), Hughie Hughes (Duesenberg).
Quotation from "Board Tracks".
"The 100 lap main event was a battle between Louis Chevrolet, Ralph DePalma and Dave Lewis (Olsen-Duesenberg) trading the lead and making the spectators glad they'd been patient. John DePalma dropped out and, at 75 laps, Hughie Hughes either ran into the inside rail or stalled on the banking, depending upon whose account you believe. He and his mechanic were safe and Hughes walked to the press box near the starting line. The timber structure held 20 reporters and about 100 other people. Hughes had turned his back to the action for a moment to talk to his car owner, J.E. Joskins of Chicago, when Frank Galvin lost control of his Premier while fourth.
The Indianapolis-built copy slid in an arc toward the press stand and knocked is to kindling. The Dublin-born Galvin nailed the English-born Hughie, who had survived two mishaps of his own that week. Hughes was dragged over a hundred feet under the Premier and was dead at the scene, along with riding mechanic Gaston Weigle. Galvin died the next day and one of the spectators succumbed shortly after.
The race wasn't stopped and Louis Chevrolet's Frontenac took the checkered flag after an hour, 14 minutes and 12.20 seconds leading Ralph DePalma and Klein."
Gerrit Stevens
#7
1920sracing
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Posted 03 December 2005 - 04:00
Darren's listing of races for 1916 is correct. See page 228 of Ralph De Palma, Gentleman Champion which has a list and the points earned at each race by individual drivers.
#8
LaRacasse
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Posted 03 December 2005 - 04:21
Thanks everyone. You have all offered a lot of great information.
Two more questions: What is a "Dealers"?; and, would it be appropriate, after everything we know, to call the main 1916 Uniontown race (Universal Trophy Race), a National Non-Championship Event?
I'd appreciate any thoughts.
Two more questions: What is a "Dealers"?; and, would it be appropriate, after everything we know, to call the main 1916 Uniontown race (Universal Trophy Race), a National Non-Championship Event?
I'd appreciate any thoughts.
#9
HDonaldCapps
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Posted 03 December 2005 - 17:39
Thanks to Phil Harms, I have a copy of the "1916 Automobile Contests" booklet that the AAA Contest Board issued at the end of the 1916 season. The Uniontown event was certainly not a round in that year's National Championship.
Here is what the AAA Contest Board reported on the event:
Sanction no. 996
Uniontown Speedway, Uniontown, Penn., Dec. 2nd, 1916
One and On-eighth Mile Board Speedway
Promoter: Uniontown Speedway Association (C.W. Johnson, President)
Referee and A.A.A. Representative, F.H. Rosoboro
Starter, John D. Aitken; Assistant, Jno. L. Cadwalder
Timers, A.M. Crichton, Chief; Wallace Miller, T.E. Zinn
Scorers, E.E. Porter, Chief; E.S. Arrford, J.W. Nichols
Technical Committee, W.R. Strickland, Chief; John C. Donohue, Jos. Cronick, Bert Abel
Manager of Event, Neil Whalen
Class E Under 301 cubic inches
Distance: 100 laps, 112.5 miles
Frontenac Special, Louis Chevrolet, 1:14:12.2, 90.97 mph
Premier Special, Dave Lewis, 1:16:36.2
Mercedes Special, De Palma, 1:17:56.4
Crawford Special, Barney Newgard, 1:25:00.0
Olsen Special, McBride, 1:25:18.0 -- "Milton MacBride" (Registation No. 300) ???
Pugh Special, Meyer, running, 95 laps -- Henry A. (No. 443) or Herbert E. (No. 429) or James A. (No. 416) ???????
Ogren Special, Mason, running, 92 laps -- John F., Jr. (No. 137) or J.W. (No. 546) ???
Ogren Special, Otto Henning, running, 87 laps
Olsen Special, Bert Watson, running, 81 laps
Premier Special, Frank Galvin, wrecked, 77th lap
J.J.R. Special, John De Palma, out, 74th lap
Hoskins Special, Hughie Hughes, wrecked, 64th lap
Crawford Special, C.R. "Art" Klein, out, 19th lap
A "Dealers" race is exactly what it says it is, a race sponsored by the various local automobile dealers. The full results for that event:
48 laps, 54 miles
Class D
Peerless Special, I.P Fetterman, 40:18.0, 80.39 mph
Murray Special, Fred McCarthy, 40:19.0
Haynes Special, H.L. Robinson, running, 46 laps
Pathfinder Special, A. Hughson, out, 31st lap
Haynes Special, J.E. Conway, on fire, 30th lap
Besides Uniontown, there were a number of other major or national events not included on the National Championship Trail for 1916. If we consider a "national" or "major" as one of 100 or more miles, there were a number of events which were excluded from the NTC. Here are some of them:
5 March: Ascot, 100 miles, Class D
8 April: 276.895 miles, Corona, Class D
16 April: Ascot, 150 miles, Class D
29 April: Fresno, 301.4 miles, Class E under 301
7 May: Bakersfield, 100 miles, Class D
22 June: Galesburg, 100 miles, Class E under 451
4 July: Visalia, 151.2 miles, Class D
4 July: Hibbing, 99.44 miles, Class D
8 July: Grand Rapids, 100 miles, Class E under 451
22 July: Kansas City, 99 miles, Class E under 301
7 October: Dodge City, 150 miles, Class D
13 November: Douglas to Phoenix, 273 miles, Class D
30 November: Phoenix, 100 miles, Class D
Here is what the AAA Contest Board reported on the event:
Sanction no. 996
Uniontown Speedway, Uniontown, Penn., Dec. 2nd, 1916
One and On-eighth Mile Board Speedway
Promoter: Uniontown Speedway Association (C.W. Johnson, President)
Referee and A.A.A. Representative, F.H. Rosoboro
Starter, John D. Aitken; Assistant, Jno. L. Cadwalder
Timers, A.M. Crichton, Chief; Wallace Miller, T.E. Zinn
Scorers, E.E. Porter, Chief; E.S. Arrford, J.W. Nichols
Technical Committee, W.R. Strickland, Chief; John C. Donohue, Jos. Cronick, Bert Abel
Manager of Event, Neil Whalen
Class E Under 301 cubic inches
Distance: 100 laps, 112.5 miles
Frontenac Special, Louis Chevrolet, 1:14:12.2, 90.97 mph
Premier Special, Dave Lewis, 1:16:36.2
Mercedes Special, De Palma, 1:17:56.4
Crawford Special, Barney Newgard, 1:25:00.0
Olsen Special, McBride, 1:25:18.0 -- "Milton MacBride" (Registation No. 300) ???
Pugh Special, Meyer, running, 95 laps -- Henry A. (No. 443) or Herbert E. (No. 429) or James A. (No. 416) ???????
Ogren Special, Mason, running, 92 laps -- John F., Jr. (No. 137) or J.W. (No. 546) ???
Ogren Special, Otto Henning, running, 87 laps
Olsen Special, Bert Watson, running, 81 laps
Premier Special, Frank Galvin, wrecked, 77th lap
J.J.R. Special, John De Palma, out, 74th lap
Hoskins Special, Hughie Hughes, wrecked, 64th lap
Crawford Special, C.R. "Art" Klein, out, 19th lap
A "Dealers" race is exactly what it says it is, a race sponsored by the various local automobile dealers. The full results for that event:
48 laps, 54 miles
Class D
Peerless Special, I.P Fetterman, 40:18.0, 80.39 mph
Murray Special, Fred McCarthy, 40:19.0
Haynes Special, H.L. Robinson, running, 46 laps
Pathfinder Special, A. Hughson, out, 31st lap
Haynes Special, J.E. Conway, on fire, 30th lap
Besides Uniontown, there were a number of other major or national events not included on the National Championship Trail for 1916. If we consider a "national" or "major" as one of 100 or more miles, there were a number of events which were excluded from the NTC. Here are some of them:
5 March: Ascot, 100 miles, Class D
8 April: 276.895 miles, Corona, Class D
16 April: Ascot, 150 miles, Class D
29 April: Fresno, 301.4 miles, Class E under 301
7 May: Bakersfield, 100 miles, Class D
22 June: Galesburg, 100 miles, Class E under 451
4 July: Visalia, 151.2 miles, Class D
4 July: Hibbing, 99.44 miles, Class D
8 July: Grand Rapids, 100 miles, Class E under 451
22 July: Kansas City, 99 miles, Class E under 301
7 October: Dodge City, 150 miles, Class D
13 November: Douglas to Phoenix, 273 miles, Class D
30 November: Phoenix, 100 miles, Class D
#10
LaRacasse
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Posted 04 December 2005 - 04:48
Thanks Mr. Capps. I appreciate being able to learn from you and the others who have contributed to this discussion. Where does one get a copy of the AAA booklet you have referred to? -- it must be a great resourse.
Also, if it had been up to you, would you have included Uniontown and the other "national" races you mention in the Championship? I know this calls for an outright opinion.
Also, if it had been up to you, would you have included Uniontown and the other "national" races you mention in the Championship? I know this calls for an outright opinion.
#11
HDonaldCapps
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Posted 05 December 2005 - 05:24
The only event that is obvious by its omission is the Corona race. That the event was not included in the National Championhsip Trail events for 1916 is something of a curiosity since the site was under consideration at various times for the Vanderbilt Cup and/or Grand Prize events. However, the decision was made to begin the NTC with the Sheepshead Bay event and end it was the Ascot Park event and that is that.
As for a copy of the "1916 Automobile Contests," the IMRRC at Watkins Glen has a copy of the one that I have. The real question is whether or not Phil had such booklets for other years and I think that he did....
As for a copy of the "1916 Automobile Contests," the IMRRC at Watkins Glen has a copy of the one that I have. The real question is whether or not Phil had such booklets for other years and I think that he did....
#12
HDonaldCapps
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Posted 05 December 2005 - 20:51
After thinking about it, I went back and looked at all the events that the AAA Contest Board records as being run specifically as 'Class E and under 301 cubic inches,' the "formula" for 1916:
13 May -- Sheepshead Bay Speedway, Coney Island Cup, 20 miles
13 May -- Sheepshead Bay Speedway, Queens Cup, 50 miles
13 May -- Sheepshead Bay Speedway, Metroploitan Cup, 150 miles
30 May -- Indianapolis Motor Speedway, International Sweepstakes, 300 miles
30 May -- Olympic Park, 3 miles (Newark, NJ)
30 May -- Elmira, 3 miles (Elmira, NY; at night)
4 June -- Tacoma Automobile Speedway, 19.398 miles
11 June -- Speedway Park, 300 miles
17 June -- Olympic Park, 3 miles (night)
24 June -- Des Moines Auto Speedway, 150 miles
24 June -- Des Moines Auto Speedway, 50 Miles
26 June -- Des Moines Auto Speedway, 50 miles
26 June -- Des Moines Auto Speedway, 20 miles
26 June -- Des Moines Auto Speedway, 10 miles
26 June -- Des Moines Auto Speedway, 5 miles
4 July -- Twin City Motor Speedway, 150 miles
4 July -- Olympic Park, 3 miles
4 July -- Elmira, 3 miles (afternoon)
4 July -- Elmira, 3 miles (night)
8 July -- Sioux City Motor Speedway, 10 miles
8 July -- Sioux City Motor Speedway, 20 miles
15 July -- Omaha Auto Speedway, 150 miles
15 July -- Omaha Auto Speedway, 50 miles
22 July -- Kansas City Motor Speedway, 99 miles
5 August -- Tacoma Automobile Speedway, Montamarathon Trophy, 290.97 miles
18 August -- Flemington Fair Grounds, 3 miles
19 August -- Speedway Park, 20 miles, Heat No. 1
19 August -- Speedway Park, 20 miles, Heat No. 2
19 August -- Speedway Park, 20 miles, Heat No. 3
19 August -- Speedway Park, 20 miles, Heat No. 4
19 August -- Speedway Park, 20 miles, Heat No. 5
19 August -- Speedway Park, 50 miles, Final Heat
4 September -- Cincinnati Motor Speedway, 300 miles
4 September -- Pulaski Fair Grounds Track, 3 miles (Pulaski, PA)
4 September -- Bennings Race Track, 5 miles
9 September -- Indianapolis Motor Speedway, 20 miles
9 September -- Indianapolis Motor Speedway, 50 miles
9 September -- Indianapolis Motor Speedway, 100 miles
29 September -- Trenton Fair Grounds Track, 5 miles, Heat No. 1
29 September -- Trenton Fair Grounds Track, 5 miles, Heat No. 2
30 September -- Sheepshead Bay Speedway, Astor Cup, 250 miles
1 October -- Fresno District Fair Track, 10 miles, Heat No. 1 (Standing Start)
1 October -- Fresno District Fair Track, 10 miles, Heat No. 2 (Rolling Start)
1 October -- Fresno District Fair Track, 10 miles, Heat No. 3 (Flying Start)
7 October -- Giants Despair Mountain Hill Climb, 6000 feet
14 October -- Speedway Park, 250 miles
28 October -- Sheepshead Bay speedway, Harkness Trophy, 100 miles
11 November -- Canfield Fair Grounds Track, 5 miles (Canfield, OH)
16 November -- Santa Monica, Vanderbilt Cup Race, 294.035 miles
30 November -- Ascot One Mile Speedway, 150 miles
2 December -- Uniontown Speedway, 112.5 miles
18 November -- Santa Monica, ACA Grand Prize, 403.248 miles, Class D
In 1916, the AAA Contest Board stated that Class D was "non-stock, Free-for-All," and was "Open to any gasoline car which complies with the definition of a 'motor car'." Whereas Class E was for "special events."
13 May -- Sheepshead Bay Speedway, Coney Island Cup, 20 miles
13 May -- Sheepshead Bay Speedway, Queens Cup, 50 miles
13 May -- Sheepshead Bay Speedway, Metroploitan Cup, 150 miles
30 May -- Indianapolis Motor Speedway, International Sweepstakes, 300 miles
30 May -- Olympic Park, 3 miles (Newark, NJ)
30 May -- Elmira, 3 miles (Elmira, NY; at night)
4 June -- Tacoma Automobile Speedway, 19.398 miles
11 June -- Speedway Park, 300 miles
17 June -- Olympic Park, 3 miles (night)
24 June -- Des Moines Auto Speedway, 150 miles
24 June -- Des Moines Auto Speedway, 50 Miles
26 June -- Des Moines Auto Speedway, 50 miles
26 June -- Des Moines Auto Speedway, 20 miles
26 June -- Des Moines Auto Speedway, 10 miles
26 June -- Des Moines Auto Speedway, 5 miles
4 July -- Twin City Motor Speedway, 150 miles
4 July -- Olympic Park, 3 miles
4 July -- Elmira, 3 miles (afternoon)
4 July -- Elmira, 3 miles (night)
8 July -- Sioux City Motor Speedway, 10 miles
8 July -- Sioux City Motor Speedway, 20 miles
15 July -- Omaha Auto Speedway, 150 miles
15 July -- Omaha Auto Speedway, 50 miles
22 July -- Kansas City Motor Speedway, 99 miles
5 August -- Tacoma Automobile Speedway, Montamarathon Trophy, 290.97 miles
18 August -- Flemington Fair Grounds, 3 miles
19 August -- Speedway Park, 20 miles, Heat No. 1
19 August -- Speedway Park, 20 miles, Heat No. 2
19 August -- Speedway Park, 20 miles, Heat No. 3
19 August -- Speedway Park, 20 miles, Heat No. 4
19 August -- Speedway Park, 20 miles, Heat No. 5
19 August -- Speedway Park, 50 miles, Final Heat
4 September -- Cincinnati Motor Speedway, 300 miles
4 September -- Pulaski Fair Grounds Track, 3 miles (Pulaski, PA)
4 September -- Bennings Race Track, 5 miles
9 September -- Indianapolis Motor Speedway, 20 miles
9 September -- Indianapolis Motor Speedway, 50 miles
9 September -- Indianapolis Motor Speedway, 100 miles
29 September -- Trenton Fair Grounds Track, 5 miles, Heat No. 1
29 September -- Trenton Fair Grounds Track, 5 miles, Heat No. 2
30 September -- Sheepshead Bay Speedway, Astor Cup, 250 miles
1 October -- Fresno District Fair Track, 10 miles, Heat No. 1 (Standing Start)
1 October -- Fresno District Fair Track, 10 miles, Heat No. 2 (Rolling Start)
1 October -- Fresno District Fair Track, 10 miles, Heat No. 3 (Flying Start)
7 October -- Giants Despair Mountain Hill Climb, 6000 feet
14 October -- Speedway Park, 250 miles
28 October -- Sheepshead Bay speedway, Harkness Trophy, 100 miles
11 November -- Canfield Fair Grounds Track, 5 miles (Canfield, OH)
16 November -- Santa Monica, Vanderbilt Cup Race, 294.035 miles
30 November -- Ascot One Mile Speedway, 150 miles
2 December -- Uniontown Speedway, 112.5 miles
18 November -- Santa Monica, ACA Grand Prize, 403.248 miles, Class D
In 1916, the AAA Contest Board stated that Class D was "non-stock, Free-for-All," and was "Open to any gasoline car which complies with the definition of a 'motor car'." Whereas Class E was for "special events."
#13
HistoricMustang
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Posted 06 December 2005 - 10:22
Originally posted by LaRacasse
My hope is to determine the precise location of the track, and have a historical marker placed there. Also, I am hoping to get those drivers who were killed greater recognition, and, of course, it would have aided me in doing so if the race had been a Championship event.
Hi Derek,
Any idea where the track was located in relationship to downtown?
A quick check on Google/Earth indicates and interesting feature south of town just off "Georges Fairchance Road - Highway 857".
If you are unable to locate the exact location or if it sits on private property and the owners are not interested in a marker, approach the local officials and have a historical marker placed downtown or in another "public" area. They should be receptive to that idea.
When we lose a driver (or mechanic) on track it matters not if it was a points event - they need to be identified and remembered.
Good Luck,
Henry
#14
LaRacasse
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Posted 06 December 2005 - 17:05
Thanks Henry:
I really appreciate the advice and encouragement you offered. I have a fairly good idea of where the track was, it is just a matter of being precise. It was located southeast of downtown Uniontown, along Route 40.
I am interested, however, in what you saw on Google Earth. Do you have the longitude and latitude coordinates of what you saw. If you do, I'll try to take a look at it as well. I want to explore any and all available leads to confirm my earlier research.
Thanks again.
I really appreciate the advice and encouragement you offered. I have a fairly good idea of where the track was, it is just a matter of being precise. It was located southeast of downtown Uniontown, along Route 40.
I am interested, however, in what you saw on Google Earth. Do you have the longitude and latitude coordinates of what you saw. If you do, I'll try to take a look at it as well. I want to explore any and all available leads to confirm my earlier research.
Thanks again.
#15
LaRacasse
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Posted 06 December 2005 - 17:14
Thanks and admiration also to Mr. Capps for the exhaustive information at his disposal.
#16
HistoricMustang
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Posted 06 December 2005 - 21:01
Originally posted by LaRacasse
Thanks Henry:
I really appreciate the advice and encouragement you offered. I have a fairly good idea of where the track was, it is just a matter of being precise. It was located southeast of downtown Uniontown, along Route 40.
I am interested, however, in what you saw on Google Earth. Do you have the longitude and latitude coordinates of what you saw. If you do, I'll try to take a look at it as well. I want to explore any and all available leads to confirm my earlier research.
Thanks again.
Sorry, but the "free" version of Google-Earth does not give coordinates.
Henry
#17
HDonaldCapps
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Posted 06 December 2005 - 21:28
Originally posted by LaRacasse
Thanks and admiration also to Mr. Capps for the exhaustive information at his disposal.
Only when I am back here in the States. I will be back in Kuwait this time next week and back to being without my research materials and library once more so I am using it while I can.
#18
LaRacasse
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Posted 07 December 2005 - 02:47
Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
Only when I am back here in the States. I will be back in Kuwait this time next week and back to being without my research materials and library once more so I am using it while I can.
I am guessing you are in the U.S. military. Thanks for the protection you and yours provide.
#19
fines
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Posted 14 January 2006 - 16:58
To whom? The Iraqis? Get off your high horse and go home...Originally posted by LaRacasse
I am guessing you are in the U.S. military. Thanks for the protection you and yours provide.
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#20
HDonaldCapps
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Posted 14 January 2006 - 18:35
Originally posted by fines
To whom? The Iraqis? Get off your high horse and go home...
I am not in the least amused.
#21
Hans Etzrodt
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Posted 14 January 2006 - 19:36
As long as I know Fines, he always got a kick out of provoking an argument by presenting us with his strange views, so this remark does not come as a surprise. He is of course entitled to his opinion.Originally posted by fines
To whom? The Iraqis? Get off your high horse and go home...
#22
HDonaldCapps
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Posted 15 January 2006 - 09:35
Since he is not only one of The Best in The Business and he is also as hard-headed as I am, so it is possible to not be amused with Michael, but not for more than a few minutes. Max. More like a minute.
#23
LaRascasse
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Posted 16 January 2006 - 20:40
I am sorry if I am responsible for a small controversy. My last post was meant for Mr. Capps, and not for public comment. As such, it should have been made in the form of a private message. Now that I am a more seasoned member of this forum, I recognize that my earlier statement was not an appropriate matter for what goes on here. I will add, however, that neither was Fines' inflammatory comment.
#24
fines
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Posted 28 January 2006 - 15:11
I know I'm touching a raw nerve there, but this war is not protecting a single soul in the world, actually it's putting many innocent American lives on the line. The only thing it protects is the business interests of the Bush family and their cronies. Perhaps more Americans (and people in other countries, too!) should start to believe the right people, not the ones that are using them. But then again, it's up to you what you want to believe. If you think it is right to die for them, then go ahead. But leave the Iraqis alone.
#25
LaRascasse
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Posted 30 January 2006 - 08:01
I appreciate and respect your opinions Michael. But, again, I do not think this is the place for these types of issues, especially in a thread dealing with the 1916 racing season in the U.S. While here, should we not focus on our common brotherhood, our shared interest in the history of motorsport? Surely there are numerous political forums in existence elsewhere if you wish to discuss Iraq.
#26
HDonaldCapps
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Posted 31 January 2006 - 19:29
Speaking of irritants.....
....there is something on the 1916 championship in the article written by Bob Russo concerning the 1920 championship "controversy" (Bob Russo, "Perspective: The 1920 Championship," Indy Car Racing, January 1987, pp. 43-45) which from the first moment I read the article led me to conclude that once again, one should never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Other than leaving out the actual last round of the championship, the 1st Championship Award Sweepstakes at Ascot Speedway, Russo ignores the small problem that it was already established that only relief drivers -- those drivers who had not started the event -- could score points in championship events. Johnnny Aitken drive in relief in the Grand Prize event apparently because he wanted to win not just the race but a part of the prize money as well.
According to Russo, Richard Kennerdell, the chairman of the Contest Board, after being asked about what points Johnny Aitken would earn as a relief driver for Howdy Wilcox, said that all points would be awarded to Aitken, which -- with Resta out of the race -- would throw the championship to Aitken. Resta did not win the championship by Kennerdell caving into the pressure brought about by "...a storm of angry protests from other drivers and teams, causing Kennerdell to reverse himself." Rather, Aitken decided not to drive in the Ascot because the prize money being offered was "not sufficiently attractive" as the New York Times (21 November 1916, pg. 12) records the decision. With Aitken not participating, Resta withdrew as well.
Once more, thanks to articles such as the one by Russo, we must say, "Pity the Poor Historian!"
....there is something on the 1916 championship in the article written by Bob Russo concerning the 1920 championship "controversy" (Bob Russo, "Perspective: The 1920 Championship," Indy Car Racing, January 1987, pp. 43-45) which from the first moment I read the article led me to conclude that once again, one should never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Other than leaving out the actual last round of the championship, the 1st Championship Award Sweepstakes at Ascot Speedway, Russo ignores the small problem that it was already established that only relief drivers -- those drivers who had not started the event -- could score points in championship events. Johnnny Aitken drive in relief in the Grand Prize event apparently because he wanted to win not just the race but a part of the prize money as well.
According to Russo, Richard Kennerdell, the chairman of the Contest Board, after being asked about what points Johnny Aitken would earn as a relief driver for Howdy Wilcox, said that all points would be awarded to Aitken, which -- with Resta out of the race -- would throw the championship to Aitken. Resta did not win the championship by Kennerdell caving into the pressure brought about by "...a storm of angry protests from other drivers and teams, causing Kennerdell to reverse himself." Rather, Aitken decided not to drive in the Ascot because the prize money being offered was "not sufficiently attractive" as the New York Times (21 November 1916, pg. 12) records the decision. With Aitken not participating, Resta withdrew as well.
Once more, thanks to articles such as the one by Russo, we must say, "Pity the Poor Historian!"
#27
LaRascasse
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Posted 01 February 2006 - 19:38
I am not sure if I understand, Mr. Capps. If Aitken was ahead of Resta in points going into the last round, and neither driver competed in that last round, how is it that Resta was awarded the Championship Title in 1916?
#28
HDonaldCapps
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Posted 01 February 2006 - 20:26
Originally posted by LaRascasse
I am not sure if I understand, Mr. Capps. If Aitken was ahead of Resta in points going into the last round, and neither driver competed in that last round, how is it that Resta was awarded the Championship Title in 1916?
Aitken was leading Resta going into the last three events, all of which were in California. Resta won the Vanderbilt Cup with Aitken dropping out, putting him in the championship lead since Aitken retired form the race -- 4100 points to 3400. In the Grand Prize event both retired and even though Aitken drove in relief of Wilcox, he could not score points, leaving them 700 points apart -- with a race remaining, the event at Ascot which Russo either was unaware of somehow or chose to ignore.
There was discussion as to whether the Ascot race would be run as a 200-miler versus the scheduled 150 mile distance since the latter would only offer 600 points to the winner while the 200 mile distance would offer 700 points and an opportunity for Aitken to at least tie Resta. While the promoters wanted to let the drivers decide -- Kennerdell of the Contest Board leaving it up to the promoters, events took care of things. Resta's car could not be reapired in time for the event and Aitken didn't like the purse offered and so neither entered the last event of the championship at Ascot on 30 November.
In other words, Russo didn't know what he was talking about....
#29
LaRascasse
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Posted 01 February 2006 - 20:52
Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
it was already established that only relief drivers -- those drivers who had not started the event -- could score points in championship events.
If the above rule were in place, why did Aitken not receive all the points for winning the Grand Prize in relief of Wilcox? Because he had started the race in his own right?
#30
HDonaldCapps
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Posted 02 February 2006 - 06:58
[QUOTE]Originally posted by LaRascasse
If the above rule were in place, why did Aitken not receive all the points for winning the Grand Prize in relief of Wilcox? Because he had started the race in his own right? [/QUOTE]
If the above rule were in place, why did Aitken not receive all the points for winning the Grand Prize in relief of Wilcox? Because he had started the race in his own right? [/B][/QUOTE]
First of all, even had Aitken received any points for his effort with Wilcox, it would have only covered those laps he actually drove, which was rough about half of the distance, so he would still have emerged from the Grand Prize event behind Resta in the points. This would have narrowed the gap, but still left Aitken trailing by roughly half of the 700 points he was behind Resta on with one event left to go. I have no clue as to how Russo could have Aitken getting all the points for that drive. It seems very far-fetched for Kennerdell to have ever said such a thing.
Second, only a driver designated as a relief driver could collect points. A driver starting an event was bound to that entry and any subsequent efforts were, in effect, null and void.
Third, perhaps I was a tad hard on Russo, but his whole tale concerning both 1916 and 1920 just doesn't fit with what we have been able to dig out on these seasons and these races in particular. Nor does it help provide us with any more with any more understanding as to trying to pin down exactly why Means and Haresnape undertook such an effort in the first place.
Our knowledge of the first few decades of American racing can be very incomplete, inaccurate, and even mystifying at times. Our knowledge is often earned the old-fashioned way -- damned hard work at patiently pulling the bits and pieces of the puzzle together and sometimes having to wade through no end of myths and legends to find what might be the "truth."
History, despite what some may wish to think, rarely provides us with the cold, hard facts. Generally, it allows us to view some of the information which might, indeed, be factual, but we usually find that only by placing things in a broader (this being a very relative term) context and gaining some perspective by examining how it all "fits" do we begin to see the patterns emerge which then becomes a part of the "record" we know as history. All this is quite subjective, even though there is a healthy dose of objectivity in the process to keep us all aware of reading too much/little into something.
I have been more than a bit mystified as to what Russo used to process all this through. That is, even in 1986 there were those who had information that, perhaps, only came to many of the rest of us later on. Part of that information was that the final event of 1916 was the event at Ascot Speedway, won by Eddie Rickenbacher and not the ACA Grand Prize event. What always concerns me is that someone reads the Russo article and it becomes gospel (as it did) and we then have to struggle to set the record straight with the information that is more accurate. One of the reasons that I had in mind when we originally stood TNF up was this sharing of information so as to "set the record straight" in many cases when the accepted "record" seemed a bit questionable: Tripoli 1933 and the CSI Euro championship of 1939 being but two examples of this examining of the record that TNF has done.
I have a manuscript for the 1916 season that discussions with Phil Harms led to his providing me with some materials, the AAA Contest Board record book for 1916 and many articles from Motor West, that I have never done the final revisions to since I was still reworking the race reports and so forth and just flat never got it wrestled to the ground as I had intended. Maybe I finally need to finish the damn thing, or at least provide a consideration of the season so that others can go from there.
If the above rule were in place, why did Aitken not receive all the points for winning the Grand Prize in relief of Wilcox? Because he had started the race in his own right? [/QUOTE]
If the above rule were in place, why did Aitken not receive all the points for winning the Grand Prize in relief of Wilcox? Because he had started the race in his own right? [/B][/QUOTE]
First of all, even had Aitken received any points for his effort with Wilcox, it would have only covered those laps he actually drove, which was rough about half of the distance, so he would still have emerged from the Grand Prize event behind Resta in the points. This would have narrowed the gap, but still left Aitken trailing by roughly half of the 700 points he was behind Resta on with one event left to go. I have no clue as to how Russo could have Aitken getting all the points for that drive. It seems very far-fetched for Kennerdell to have ever said such a thing.
Second, only a driver designated as a relief driver could collect points. A driver starting an event was bound to that entry and any subsequent efforts were, in effect, null and void.
Third, perhaps I was a tad hard on Russo, but his whole tale concerning both 1916 and 1920 just doesn't fit with what we have been able to dig out on these seasons and these races in particular. Nor does it help provide us with any more with any more understanding as to trying to pin down exactly why Means and Haresnape undertook such an effort in the first place.
Our knowledge of the first few decades of American racing can be very incomplete, inaccurate, and even mystifying at times. Our knowledge is often earned the old-fashioned way -- damned hard work at patiently pulling the bits and pieces of the puzzle together and sometimes having to wade through no end of myths and legends to find what might be the "truth."
History, despite what some may wish to think, rarely provides us with the cold, hard facts. Generally, it allows us to view some of the information which might, indeed, be factual, but we usually find that only by placing things in a broader (this being a very relative term) context and gaining some perspective by examining how it all "fits" do we begin to see the patterns emerge which then becomes a part of the "record" we know as history. All this is quite subjective, even though there is a healthy dose of objectivity in the process to keep us all aware of reading too much/little into something.
I have been more than a bit mystified as to what Russo used to process all this through. That is, even in 1986 there were those who had information that, perhaps, only came to many of the rest of us later on. Part of that information was that the final event of 1916 was the event at Ascot Speedway, won by Eddie Rickenbacher and not the ACA Grand Prize event. What always concerns me is that someone reads the Russo article and it becomes gospel (as it did) and we then have to struggle to set the record straight with the information that is more accurate. One of the reasons that I had in mind when we originally stood TNF up was this sharing of information so as to "set the record straight" in many cases when the accepted "record" seemed a bit questionable: Tripoli 1933 and the CSI Euro championship of 1939 being but two examples of this examining of the record that TNF has done.
I have a manuscript for the 1916 season that discussions with Phil Harms led to his providing me with some materials, the AAA Contest Board record book for 1916 and many articles from Motor West, that I have never done the final revisions to since I was still reworking the race reports and so forth and just flat never got it wrestled to the ground as I had intended. Maybe I finally need to finish the damn thing, or at least provide a consideration of the season so that others can go from there.
#31
LaRascasse
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Posted 02 February 2006 - 22:43
I sure wish we had a time machine. Not only to watch the races, see the cars and meet the drivers, but to impress on these sanctioning folks to get their acts together.
Is Russo still around to explain himself? I am guessing he isn't. Perhaps someone, a relative, for instance, helped him to work on this stuff.
Is Russo still around to explain himself? I am guessing he isn't. Perhaps someone, a relative, for instance, helped him to work on this stuff.
#32
Jim Thurman
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Posted 03 February 2006 - 04:38
Interesting stuff Don. Thanks for posting it.
Despite Bob Russo's failings on this matter, on the other hand, his outstanding "Championship Trail" accounts in SpeedAge magazine offered details on 1950's era events one would not find in any newspaper.
And on a side note, has it ever been determined whether Johnny Aitken actually died from the Spanish Influenza or not?
Despite Bob Russo's failings on this matter, on the other hand, his outstanding "Championship Trail" accounts in SpeedAge magazine offered details on 1950's era events one would not find in any newspaper.
And on a side note, has it ever been determined whether Johnny Aitken actually died from the Spanish Influenza or not?
#33
HDonaldCapps
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Posted 03 February 2006 - 13:41
Jim,
You have hit an issue square on the head and the reason that I am so perplexed by Russo's article. Those Speed Age articles were well-written and have stood the test of time, so to speak. Such fundamental, basic errors are just somehow not what one would expect.
As for Aitken, let me do another look and see what I can find. I meant to go through some items on Aitken recently and just never got to it. This issue of the flu was one of them, although I am not certain as to what the newspapers might give as the cause versus what may have actually been the culprit.
Don
You have hit an issue square on the head and the reason that I am so perplexed by Russo's article. Those Speed Age articles were well-written and have stood the test of time, so to speak. Such fundamental, basic errors are just somehow not what one would expect.
As for Aitken, let me do another look and see what I can find. I meant to go through some items on Aitken recently and just never got to it. This issue of the flu was one of them, although I am not certain as to what the newspapers might give as the cause versus what may have actually been the culprit.
Don
#34
Hans Etzrodt
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Posted 09 February 2006 - 05:07
Thanks for delivering the facts - Don. 
#35
HDonaldCapps
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Posted 09 February 2006 - 08:14
Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
Thanks for delivering the facts - Don.
I try.
#36
HDonaldCapps
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Posted 15 February 2006 - 19:28
Originally posted by Jim Thurman
And on a side note, has it ever been determined whether Johnny Aitken actually died from the Spanish Influenza or not?
The Los Angeles Times for 16 October 1918 states that Johnny Aitken died of pneumonia as a result of the influenza.
/////////// I checked and the Boston Globe, Chicago Tribune, and Washington Post for 16 October 1918 all agree with the LAT story. The Tribune had a nice write-up on Aitken, in fact.
#37
Jim Thurman
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Posted 22 February 2006 - 06:42
Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
The Los Angeles Times for 16 October 1918 states that Johnny Aitken died of pneumonia as a result of the influenza.
/////////// I checked and the Boston Globe, Chicago Tribune, and Washington Post for 16 October 1918 all agree with the LAT story. The Tribune had a nice write-up on Aitken, in fact.
Thanks Don. Another issue cleared up
#38
john glenn printz
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Posted 17 September 2006 - 15:21
The data on the 1916 AAA National Championship season contained in Bob Russo's article THE 1920 CHAMPION (INDY CAR RACING, Jan. 1987, pages 43-45) is culled from Peter Helck's excellent book THE CHECKERED FLAG, New York, 1961.
#39
HDonaldCapps
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Posted 17 September 2006 - 18:13
Originally posted by john glenn printz
The data on the 1916 AAA National Championship season contained in Bob Russo's article THE 1920 CHAMPION (INDY CAR RACING, Jan. 1987, pages 43-45) is culled from Peter Helck's excellent book THE CHECKERED FLAG, New York, 1961.
"Culled" might the operative term since it connotes a certain selectivity....
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#40
brickyard
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Posted 27 September 2006 - 18:41
Hi,
two small questions about 1916 season:
a) the first Chicago race (300 miles) was held on June 11th or 10th? I have on my records 10, also on CART's 1989 Media Guide, but in this thread I saw 11th...
b) if year's championship was for Class E cars, how the ACA Grand Prize was part of it since it was for Class D cars?
Thanks
two small questions about 1916 season:
a) the first Chicago race (300 miles) was held on June 11th or 10th? I have on my records 10, also on CART's 1989 Media Guide, but in this thread I saw 11th...
b) if year's championship was for Class E cars, how the ACA Grand Prize was part of it since it was for Class D cars?
Thanks
#41
HDonaldCapps
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Posted 27 September 2006 - 19:44
two small questions about 1916 season:
a) the first Chicago race (300 miles) was held on June 11th or 10th? I have on my records 10, also on CART's 1989 Media Guide, but in this thread I saw 11th...
b) if year's championship was for Class E cars, how the ACA Grand Prize was part of it since it was for Class D cars?
(a) It was held on the 11th. I can cite the AAA Automobile Contests (page 26) and the Atlanta Constitution, Boston Globe, Los Angeles Times, and New York Times all dated 12 June 1916.
(b) Pretty simple: the Contest Board placed on the championship calendar. It was that simple. The event was a part of the championship even though it was run under Class D. In reality, the differences between Classes D and E are less than meets the modern eye. From the 1916 Contest Rules (pages 12 & 13 in the 1916 Automobile Contests) :
Class D: Non-Stock Free-for-All
Open to any gasoline car which complies with the definition of a "motor car."
Class E: Special events
Special events other than those specified held in connection with any motor car meet or contest, and approved by the Contest Board.
#43
benjamin
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Posted 21 October 2006 - 18:54
Hello gentlemen, I would like to offer some info on the location of the track. The best way to find the old track is from the end of Devan ave. Make a right hand turn (south) at the end of Devan and you will see JFK elementary school. South of the school up on the hill is the old track. If one walks the old road around the track (now used as a ballfield) you will see the old hill climb that leads down to Craig lane. You may also see the old access road from rt40. Hope I helped.
#44
TStevens92
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Posted 02 November 2006 - 03:55
I searched for topo maps for the track a few weeks ago and meant to post one or two of them. It seems like the trackw as closer to town than it was Hopwood, but then again the topo map wasn't marked that well and not living in the area anymore, I've no clue where JFK school is. D'oh! Maybe when I travel up for Thanksgiving.
Tony
Tony
#45
LaRascasse
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Posted 06 November 2006 - 16:18
Benjamin, I believe you are somewhat off the mark. I believe that the area you are describing refers to a different track that existed in the 50's. It was the third different track in the area of Hopwood, and the latest.
The track referred to in this thread was further down route 40 towards the center of Hopwood.
The track referred to in this thread was further down route 40 towards the center of Hopwood.
#46
HistoricMustang
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Posted 05 May 2008 - 22:05
Originally posted by LaRascasse
Benjamin, I believe you are somewhat off the mark. I believe that the area you are describing refers to a different track that existed in the 50's. It was the third different track in the area of Hopwood, and the latest.
The track referred to in this thread was further down route 40 towards the center of Hopwood.
Based on information closer than I this is not the old board track but it is located north of Uniontown.
Henry
1937
This is all that I could find in Hopwood from 1937 that resembles a former track. I would not bet the house on it being a bed for the former board track. The one and one eight mile distance looks like a fit.
1937
#47
Phoenixent
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Posted 30 June 2008 - 05:02
Comparing the Map of Uniontown Speedwayfrom http://www.silhouet....s/uniontwn.html to Google Earth. I believe that I have located the old board track. The coordinates are 39°52'33.29"N , 79°42'26.62"W hope this helps you out. Good Luck.
