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Will Mclaren Sabotage Alonso?


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Poll: Will Mclaren Sabotage Alonso? (179 member(s) have cast votes)

  1. Yes (73 votes [40.78%])

    Percentage of vote: 40.78%

  2. No (106 votes [59.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 59.22%

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#1 RTX

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 04:48

Things between Alonso and Mclaren are clearly bad and he will probably leave the team next year. His emails were part of the case that incriminated the team and brought the guilty verdict. Hamilton is the golden child and has been part of the team for a decade. With all this in mind I cant see the team allowing under any circumstances Alonso leaving the team with the No1. They will want Hamilton to win the WC and I think they will ensure this by sabotaging Alonsos car sometime in the next 4 races. I expect him to DNF soon. Its just the way it has to be for Mclaren. Its called payback.

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#2 klover

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 04:53

Alonso fans are preparing the excuses already :lol:

#3 cordell777

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 04:55

Originally posted by RTX
Things between Alonso and Mclaren are clearly bad and he will probably leave the team next year. His emails were part of the case that incriminated the team and brought the guilty verdict. Hamilton is the golden child and has been part of the team for a decade. With all this in mind I cant see the team allowing under any circumstances Alonso leaving the team with the No1. They will want Hamilton to win the WC and I think they will ensure this by sabotaging Alonsos car sometime in the next 4 races. I expect him to DNF soon. Its just the way it has to be for Mclaren. Its called payback.

Ney, no need to sabotage Alonso's car. Hamilton will do the job on the track if necessery :);)

#4 RTX

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 04:59

Originally posted by cordell777

Ney, no need to sabotage Alonso's car. Hamilton will do the job on the track if necessery :);)


Hamilton is clearly untouchable by the sports regulators and they clearly want him to win which means he could take Alonso out on track and escape punishment. But if Alonso is involved in any incident with Hamilton no matter how innocently like a genuine racing incident and Hamilton loses out, he will be sanctioned without doubt. Thats obvious and im sure Hamilton knows this.

#5 Ricardo F1

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 05:07

Please stop this idiotic level of paranoia. Alonso will have the same car he's had all season long - the same one that Hamilton is driving. Who knows, maybe McLaren and Bridgestone will arrange for another tyre failure to aid Alonso's hopes. Or maybe McLaren will fuel Hamilton five extra laps at Spa just in case of safety car deployment. Alonso is behind Hamilton in the WDC because Hamilton has driven better. Alonso's experience SHOULD allow him to overhaul that between now and the end of the season, he'll be a 3 time WDC and all the conspiracy theorists around here will no doubt say he won against all odds. :rolleyes:

#6 Mauseri

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 05:10

They will screw him and leave Spa.

#7 RTX

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 05:16

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
Please stop this idiotic level of paranoia. Alonso will have the same car he's had all season long - the same one that Hamilton is driving. Who knows, maybe McLaren and Bridgestone will arrange for another tyre failure to aid Alonso's hopes. Or maybe McLaren will fuel Hamilton five extra laps at Spa just in case of safety car deployment. Alonso is behind Hamilton in the WDC because Hamilton has driven better. Alonso's experience SHOULD allow him to overhaul that between now and the end of the season, he'll be a 3 time WDC and all the conspiracy theorists around here will no doubt say he won against all odds. :rolleyes:


Are you denying there is a motive for Mclaren to sabotage Alonso? Are you denying they would prefer Hamilton to win the WC? You cant deny these two facts so then my question is far from paranoia. Its a total possibility and far from idiotic.

#8 RiDE

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 05:22

Nope.

#9 jigc

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 05:24

i think yes.
they had done this at monza which ran the engine at limit, thus 0.3 faster.
next race, the engine only can last 0.7 race. let see. :)

#10 ViMaMo

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 05:30

Originally posted by RTX


Hamilton is clearly untouchable by the sports regulators and they clearly want him to win which means he could take Alonso out on track and escape punishment. But if Alonso is involved in any incident with Hamilton no matter how innocently like a genuine racing incident and Hamilton loses out, he will be sanctioned without doubt. Thats obvious and im sure Hamilton knows this.


How did Alonso win at Monza? Acc to you I think : " Even though Mclaren provided him an inferior car with inferior strategy, Alonso used his experience and talent to beat Lewis running a better car and a better strategy. "

#11 RTX

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 05:33

Originally posted by vivian


How did Alonso win at Monza? Acc to you I think : " Even though Mclaren provided him an inferior car with inferior strategy, Alonso used his experience and talent to beat Lewis running a better car and a better strategy. "


You dont seem to understand what im saying. They obviously didnt sabotage him at Monza. They just need to do it once and his WC will be over so with 4 races to go I think they will. And I dont mean strategy I mean car breaking down.

#12 armchair expert

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 05:41

No way. If they sabotage Alonso and Hamilton also has a DNF, it brings Ferrari back in the picture. Ron will never allow this to happen.

#13 ViMaMo

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 06:20

Originally posted by RTX


You dont seem to understand what im saying. They obviously didnt sabotage him at Monza. They just need to do it once and his WC will be over so with 4 races to go I think they will. And I dont mean strategy I mean car breaking down.



Acc to you they have been screwing Alonso the whole season, why didnt they do it at Monza? Why didn't they give him a inferior equip or strategy in Monza?

You are spinning a new story on how Alonso may lose the championship, but what about the conspiracy theory you have been running the whole season. That did not hold good at Monza.

Why didnt they screw Alonso at Monza? If they had, Alonso could have finished 3rd (behind Raikonnen) and had 85 points. 7 points deficit than the 4 point deficit.

If Alonso had the race like Lewis at Monza; you would have blasted Mclaren for a lousy strategy, a crap car and a great overtaking from Alonso to take the 2nd place from Raikonnen. !!!!!

#14 prettyface

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 06:29

I hope they don't. Clearly there isn't a relationship anymore, outside of the minimum necessary for functioning; and if he's really leaving after this season McLaren won't like to see Alonso taking the WDC with him.

Hamilton makes a much more charismatic champion; both for McLaren and Bernie. Anyone denying this is blind.

Alonsos' paranoia is going to go into overdrive these last four races. I hope it's not justified.

#15 Julli

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 06:29

Now that the WCC is out of the guestion, they should. FA has been so ungrateful that he deserves the boot from the team. Bring the chaos season to the chaos finish it deserves. FA getting the boot from McLaren.

Julli

#16 RTX

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 06:32

Originally posted by armchair expert
No way. If they sabotage Alonso and Hamilton also has a DNF, it brings Ferrari back in the picture. Ron will never allow this to happen.


Ferrari will most likely be out of the running by the final race so that would be a consideration.

#17 RTX

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 06:35

Originally posted by vivian



Acc to you they have been screwing Alonso the whole season, why didnt they do it at Monza? Why didn't they give him a inferior equip or strategy in Monza?

You are spinning a new story on how Alonso may lose the championship, but what about the conspiracy theory you have been running the whole season. That did not hold good at Monza.




I havent been running a conspiracy theory all season. You just make that up that. Sabotaging will only be used as a last resort so no need to do it at Monza, but I can feel it coming.

#18 LeD

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 06:39

I can feel something coming too - and much more satisfying than your ridiculous conspiracy theory.....

[/Heads off to loo with newspaper under arm]

#19 Tigershark

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 06:46

Nah, Dennis has proven in the past that his team can manage two drivers fighting for the championship. :up:

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#20 Rogue

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 06:53

Personally, I wouldn't blame McLaren if they did (not saying that I want to see them do it though). Alonso's behavior this year has created the negative situation that he finds himself in with the team, and he is taking no positive steps to improve things for himself.

A truly great driver is a complete package. As far as I am concerned Alonso has failed the team building test dramatically in the last two seasons. He may be more or less a match for anyone else on track, but off it even Hamilton in his rookie year is kicking his arse.

Cheers

#21 prettyface

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 07:01

Originally posted by Rogue
A truly great driver is a complete package. As far as I am concerned Alonso has failed the team building test dramatically in the last two seasons. He may be more or less a match for anyone else on track, but off it even Hamilton in his rookie year is kicking his arse.


Agree that Hamilton has won the political war; but Alonso's "team building", whatever that's supposed to mean, worked perfectly at Renault. Maybe he simply wasn't allowed to implement his vision at McLaren :)

#22 clampett

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 07:06

As much as Fisi was sabotaged in Renault in 2005-06.

#23 tidytracks

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 07:12

100% Yes

If not, Alonso wins the crown, goes back to Renault with the number 1 on his car, and McLaren start 2008 at the far end of the pitlane with #22 and #23...

#24 Rogue

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 07:13

"Team building" in terms of truly great drivers consistently showing an ability to get a team to rally around them and support their cause, and this can apply whether you are talking about a driver arriving at a new team and pulling them across to his cause, or maintaining support throughout a competitive threat situation.

Where I think Alonso has failed this is in dealing with a rookie driver inexperienced in such matters this year, and in more or less turning negative on his own team last year while things got messy against Ferrari/Schumacher. His constant sniping against his own people isn't the stuff of a natural leader, its the stuff someone struggling with lack of maturity and/or skills to deal with his situation.

Cheers

#25 Rogue

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 07:16

additionally, I would also have suggested to Alonso that he may have done himself a favour in taking a history lesson about McLaren with respect to implementing "his vision" before joining the team. McLaren were never going to go along with throwing their weight behind one guy completely, a la Ferrari/Schumacher, and he should have known this.

Cheers

#26 Fausta

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 07:22

I think forming solid opinions on the evidence we have is not very wise. We know very little about the relationships of everyone involved and it seems personal bias enters the typing frame more than any solid opinions built on sound evidence. I am not 100% pleased with the APPARENT bad behavior of Alonso and should it all be true I would be disappointed with him, but I would always support him. We have no idea what position he was in or what info he gave the FIA. Hopefully soon some non-speculated information will be forthcoming!

#27 airwise

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 07:30

Lewis is the only one of the two to have lost points in a race through car problems (Turkey). A problem for Fred would even things up and make things more even.

He should certainly beat Hamilton this weekend. His experience. His secrecy over setup and Lewis's efforts for the team off the circuit this week should result in a convincing win for Fred. I rather doubt there will be much of a celebration though.

#28 RTX

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 07:56

Originally posted by airwise
Lewis is the only one of the two to have lost points in a race through car problems (Turkey). A problem for Fred would even things up and make things more even.
.


You posted this in the full knowledge of Alonsos gearbox problem in France qualifying which cost him points. That is another example of how biased you are. Im wondering though, when you post things like this do you really expect people to not pick you up on it or dont you really care?

#29 airwise

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 08:11

Don't be so stupid Arrow. I ignored that and Lewis's wheel coming off at Nurburgring as they both happened in Q3.

Actually Lewis might well be marginal this weekend. He spent half the race at Monza tucked up behind Fred which probably didn't help a great deal with regards to cooling that Mercedes.

#30 as65p

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 08:14

Originally posted by airwise
...and Lewis's efforts for the team off the circuit this week should result in a convincing win for Fred


How does the italics part work (in your mind, at least - I'm just curious).

You think he can't handle spending a day sitting around in Paris, than fly 300km and drive free practice a day later?

#31 Suntrek

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 08:42

Originally posted by as65p


How does the italics part work (in your mind, at least - I'm just curious).

You think he can't handle spending a day sitting around in Paris, than fly 300km and drive free practice a day later?


He wasn't even spending the day in Paris, he was just there for show and photography and left after an hour or so.

On topic:

No. The same sabotaging theories were often heard regarding Fisi, especially in 2005. I didn't believe them then and I don't believe them now. No team with an inkling of self esteem would ever sabotage its own driver.

#32 Orin

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 08:56

What a dumb thread. McLaren will either support him to get the best result possible, or exclude him from races altogether. This childish 'conspiracy theory' stuff has been coming from Alonso supporters all season, lay off the American dramas. :down:

#33 Rogue

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 09:12

Actually, the thread was simply asking an either/or question, which you answered anyway. If it was dumb, why participate?

Cheers

#34 Suntrek

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 09:14

Originally posted by Julli
Now that the WCC is out of the guestion, they should. FA has been so ungrateful that he deserves the boot from the team. Bring the chaos season to the chaos finish it deserves. FA getting the boot from McLaren.

Julli


"Ungrateful" again. Why on earth is Alonso the only driver on the grid who has to be grateful ?? :drunk:

And for getting the boot - I think McLaren better hold onto him for dear life! He brings several fat sponsor cheques to them - and they'll be rather poor next season. But of course they can always get a pay driver instead.

#35 noikeee

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 09:14

If I read the verdict right, the amount of prize money they would win from the WCC points (if they hadn't been thrown out of the WCC) will be deducted from their fine. So it's still in the best interest of McLaren to gather as many points as possible.

Altho I don't doubt the atmosphere in the team will be (even more) annoying for Alonso from now on.

#36 Paul McLucas

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 09:28

Originally posted by paranoik0
If I read the verdict right, the amount of prize money they would win from the WCC points (if they hadn't been thrown out of the WCC) will be deducted from their fine. So it's still in the best interest of McLaren to gather as many points as possible.

Altho I don't doubt the atmosphere in the team will be (even more) annoying for Alonso from now on.


I don't think they will be scoring any more WCC points. I got the impression the credit is based on the number of points they have now.

#37 juandiego

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 09:37

Well, we really can not know it and we'll can't.
There's no need of an evident and noticeable sabotage. Just a tweak in the engine inyection mapping and he would be what they want slower, for instance.

IMO can not be denied that LH is of more interest than FA for McLaren, the F1 establishment, the media, financially to McLaren's sponsors, team affection, etc. And I don't know any company who doesn't favour its own interests.

On the other hand, the fair play has always been an important part of the sport, and given that McLaren currently is in the spotlight precisely by the contrary, they feel forced to opt for a fair play fight between the drivers. In Monza it was clear that Alonso had a perfect winning equipment though the fight with Ferrari for the WDC and WCC was still open whereas right now is virtually over.

Furthermore, Dennis is no more someone to be considered as fair player in spite of what he states of his supposed equal driver policy. There has been some examples during his term of office as McLaren director in which he has favoured one upon the other, and even with less reason than right now to favour LH. In this sense, I guess that the Arabs and Mercedes sharing will have something to say but don't know what.

My feeling is that YES, but I hope to be wrong.

#38 pedrovski

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 09:42

Well they dumped Montoya in a fit of pique when he said he was going to Nascar so mclaren being vindictive isn't entirely out of the question. But they can't afford something to happen to Lewis with Alonso not in the picture.

#39 noikeee

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 09:43

Originally posted by juandiego
financially to McLaren's sponsors


If the WCC points are irrelevant now, then this is probably the biggest reason why they wouldn't sabotage Alonso. McLaren has been getting a lot of negative press in Spain this season, I bet Vodafone and specially Banco Santander aren't too happy about it, and would be even less happy if any stories of Alonso being sabotaged reach the media and end up being true!

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#40 K-One

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 09:44

Originally posted by juandiego

My feeling is that YES, but I hope to be wrong.


Almost every Alonso fan has this feeling, 'cause it can't just be that someone is faster than holy Alonso sometimes. Sad, really

#41 se7en_24

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 09:48

Originally posted by RTX


You posted this in the full knowledge of Alonsos gearbox problem in France qualifying which cost him points. That is another example of how biased you are. Im wondering though, when you post things like this do you really expect people to not pick you up on it or dont you really care?

:lol: I love how you fail to ignore Lewis' problems a the Ring.

And you wonder why not one person gives you an ounce of credibility here, and why you are constantly banned for your trolling.

#42 juandiego

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 09:56

Originally posted by airwise
Lewis is the only one of the two to have lost points in a race through car problems (Turkey). A problem for Fred would even things up and make things more even.

Alonso has lost points because other reason that can not be ascribable as his fault. At Bahrain with a dodgy car, at Canada by a drive through, at France by a failure in qualification and the at least debatable penalty in Hungary.

#43 juandiego

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 09:59

Originally posted by se7en_24
:lol: I love how you fail to ignore Lewis' problems a the Ring.

But the fact is that Lewis was fourth at the end of the straight after the start, so the problem in qualification was not the key of the bad result but his spin out.

#44 juandiego

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 10:14

Originally posted by K-One


Almost every Alonso fan has this feeling, 'cause it can't just be that someone is faster than holy Alonso sometimes. Sad, really

I explained my point and you belittle my opinion because I am Alonso supporter so I could do the same about your opinion but it has no sense, IMO. Explain me, if you please, what part of my post you disagree with and why.
I agree that Lewis could be as fast (or faster) as Alonso many times but in general Alonso still has more qualities than Hamilton to win the WDC.

#45 K-One

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 10:15

Originally posted by juandiego

At Bahrain with a dodgy car


His only problem in Bahrain was that he was slower than Lewis, then trying blame some non-issue afterwards. Funny that he didn't mention any problems during quali, only after race

#46 K-One

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 10:20

Originally posted by juandiego

I agree that Lewis could be as fast (or faster) as Alonso many times but in general Alonso still has more qualities than Hamilton to win the WDC.


I agree on that fully and he will most likely win WDC, but they claim that they favour Lewis is just a poor excuse when he is loosing to Hamilton.

#47 ViMaMo

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 10:27

Alonso blackmailing Ron, now we can talk of sabotage. :down:

#48 juandiego

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 10:41

Originally posted by K-One
His only problem in Bahrain was that he was slower than Lewis, then trying blame some non-issue afterwards. Funny that he didn't mention any problems during quali, only after race

Sorry but it was clear that the car had some kind of problem. When breaking his car moved harshly from side to side especially the rear end. Remember too that he was overtaken by Hedifeld. He was slower even than the BMWs!!! Something that had not happened before and that has not happened after Bahrain. Strange, isn't it?

#49 Buttoneer

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 11:26

Dumb thread :down:

#50 juandiego

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 11:31

Originally posted by K-One


I agree on that fully and he will most likely win WDC, but they claim that they favour Lewis is just a poor excuse when he is loosing to Hamilton.

Actually, had not Alonso been forced to drive trough in Canada because of this stupid new rule about pitting when the safety car is deployed, and he woul be leading the WDC. In addition, it is a fact that McLaren has already favoured drivers upon their teammates, so why is it something to be ruled out so easily if even now there's more reasons to think that it may well be?