McLaren insider regrets Alonso exit
Started by
pjabyrne
, Nov 19 2007 18:59
118 replies to this topic
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#2
mclarensmps
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Posted 19 November 2007 - 19:02
Yeah... this McLaren guy totally knows how well Alonso would perform as a team leader because he's spent years with him when he was a #1 driver...
#3
Atreiu
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Posted 19 November 2007 - 19:08
Not thread worthy, IMO.
#4
Big Block 8
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Posted 19 November 2007 - 19:16
"Carlos Miquel quotes an unnamed technician..."
That's not too impressive to be honest.
That's not too impressive to be honest.
#5
pjabyrne
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Posted 19 November 2007 - 19:21
Originally posted by Atreiu
Not thread worthy, IMO.
Not thread worthy? Fair enough, you probably have a point.
However why do people here act as if each new thread started contributes to global warming, the melting of the ice caps and world doom???
We end up with long meandering threads where the original point is lost and where even if you do make a point it's likely to be hidden on page ...23?
#6
Buttoneer
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Posted 19 November 2007 - 19:26
Just made a small amendment...Originally posted by pjabyrne
However why do people here act as if each new thread started contributes to global warming, the melting of the ice caps and world doom???
We end up with long meandering threads where the original point is lost and where even if you do make a point it's likely to be hidden among the Jerez '97, rascasse, Hungary or another 'gate' posts?
#7
Ricardo F1
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Posted 19 November 2007 - 19:33
I'm a McLaren outsider and I regret Alonso leaving too. It's crap they couldn't sort it out. 
#8
PiquetPete
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Posted 19 November 2007 - 19:41
Originally posted by pjabyrne
Not thread worthy? Fair enough, you probably have a point.
However why do people here act as if each new thread started contributes to global warming, the melting of the ice caps and world doom???
We end up with long meandering threads where the original point is lost and where even if you do make a point it's likely to be hidden on page ...23?
I agree with you - there are some right old misery guts on this forum that love to put people down and are overly serious about a few cars chasing each other round a track! Its should be fun and entertaining not gloom laden!
Anyway - can't wait for Nelsinho to further dent old Fernandos reputation further next season!
#9
Atreiu
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Posted 19 November 2007 - 19:46
Originally posted by pjabyrne
Not thread worthy? Fair enough, you probably have a point.
However why do people here act as if each new thread started contributes to global warming, the melting of the ice caps and world doom???
We end up with long meandering threads where the original point is lost and where even if you do make a point it's likely to be hidden on page ...23?
Because they do contribute to the decay of our world. Evil threads!
Serious, I posted that because an 'insider' can be just about anybody or nobody. Not to mention the statement is at the same time obvious and meaningless. It's obvious a pilot like Alonso is missed at any team, nobody ever wanted things at McLaren to get so bad so quick for them to depart. At the same time it's meaningless because it really adds nothing to what was, what is and what might be.
All in all, it's comparable to me saying Force India could use a guy like Schumacher, duh.
Anyhow, chill, no biggie. It's the off season, teams have begun testing and we don't know where Alonso will drive next year, so there are a lot more silly statements to be made and eventually debated all around.
;)
#10
wrighty
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Posted 19 November 2007 - 20:21
Originally posted by Ricardo F1
I'm a McLaren outsider and I regret Alonso leaving too. It's crap they couldn't sort it out.
they couldn't sort it out because the Asurian God seemed to think he'd go there and the place would fall over backwards to make him their sole focus.....unlucky
#11
COUGAR508
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Posted 19 November 2007 - 22:00
It is just disappointing that a way could not be found to ensure that a driver of Alonso's undoubted quality stayed at McLaren. But it would seem that he functions best as the undisputed number one driver in a team.
#12
as65p
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Posted 19 November 2007 - 22:40
Originally posted by COUGAR508
It is just disappointing that a way could not be found to ensure that a driver of Alonso's undoubted quality stayed at McLaren. But it would seem that he functions best as the undisputed number one driver in a team.
That's true for every driver on the grid. The question is rather how they'll react if they can't have it.
I've said it before, let's just wait a few years and then see who's worse. Considering that Hamilton did a pretty convincing primadonna act in his 5th GP already, I'd say he has even greater "potential" than Alonso ;).
Of course, if he stays at McLaren for life we might never know...
#13
Melbourne Park
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Posted 19 November 2007 - 22:53
I've always said that a #1 driver provides more for the team. The only problem is handling the #2 driver's ego and all the rest of that.
#14
EVO2
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Posted 19 November 2007 - 23:01
Looks like Alonso will be back at Renault after all.
But is he worth having with all that primadonna baggage ?
After all it's certain that HK will leave the team as he has made it abundantly clear he expects equal treatment and an opportunity to compete for the WDC.
If ever there was a case of a driver saying "Ron, here I am, come and sign me" this is it !
So, who will Briatori get to sit in the other car ? Obviously nobody with urgent ambition.
Oh, and Renault's lawyers better write into Alonso's contract that he doesn't get a laptop nor a mobile phone or at least he's barred from using email and text messaging.
And the second driver's contract better say he must always ensure his car remains 2 tenths slower than Alonso at all times.
Is that any way to run a RACING team ?
But is he worth having with all that primadonna baggage ?
After all it's certain that HK will leave the team as he has made it abundantly clear he expects equal treatment and an opportunity to compete for the WDC.
If ever there was a case of a driver saying "Ron, here I am, come and sign me" this is it !
So, who will Briatori get to sit in the other car ? Obviously nobody with urgent ambition.
Oh, and Renault's lawyers better write into Alonso's contract that he doesn't get a laptop nor a mobile phone or at least he's barred from using email and text messaging.
And the second driver's contract better say he must always ensure his car remains 2 tenths slower than Alonso at all times.
Is that any way to run a RACING team ?
#15
Tenmantaylor
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Posted 19 November 2007 - 23:26
Newshock: Alonso performs better when he is favoured. If not, he claims the opposite must be taking place.
#16
Suntrek
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Posted 19 November 2007 - 23:36
Originally posted by EVO2
Looks like Alonso will be back at Renault after all.
But is he worth having with all that primadonna baggage ?
After all it's certain that HK will leave the team as he has made it abundantly clear he expects equal treatment and an opportunity to compete for the WDC.
If ever there was a case of a driver saying "Ron, here I am, come and sign me" this is it !
So, who will Briatori get to sit in the other car ? Obviously nobody with urgent ambition.
Oh, and Renault's lawyers better write into Alonso's contract that he doesn't get a laptop nor a mobile phone or at least he's barred from using email and text messaging.
And the second driver's contract better say he must always ensure his car remains 2 tenths slower than Alonso at all times.
Is that any way to run a RACING team ?
Don't worry, somehow I think Renault will survive the horrible setback of having Alonso back in the team.
#17
as65p
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Posted 19 November 2007 - 23:50
Originally posted by EVO2
Looks like Alonso will be back at Renault after all.
But is he worth having with all that primadonna baggage ?
After all it's certain that HK will leave the team as he has made it abundantly clear he expects equal treatment and an opportunity to compete for the WDC.
....
But is it worth it for McLaren to go through all this again, assuming that HK is indeed as fast or, heaven forbid, faster than Hamilton? What if Heikki behaves awkwardly, like insisting on such stuff as previously agreed team strategies?
Is that any way to run a RACING team ?
Ask Ron...;)
#18
RSNS
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 03:00
Originally posted by pjabyrne
Not thread worthy? Fair enough, you probably have a point.
However why do people here act as if each new thread started contributes to global warming, the melting of the ice caps and world doom???
We end up with long meandering threads where the original point is lost and where even if you do make a point it's likely to be hidden on page ...23?
I find it is thread worthy and I agree that the current trend of not starting threads makes reading some posts rather awkward. Perhaps there is a technical reason, but barring that and accepting that 'double threads' are silly, the current trend is perhaps too much of a good thing.
#19
Man of the race
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 08:22
Who is this engineer? Does he develop the steely toilet seats of Paragon?
Carlos Miquel could also quote, what an unnamed current McLaren team chief and an unnamed current McLaren fellow race driver have said about the input into the process.
I partly agree about the topic. Alonso should have tried to work it out instead of leaving, but not with demanding #1 status. He has skills, but to demand instant #1 does not do justice to those.
Carlos Miquel could also quote, what an unnamed current McLaren team chief and an unnamed current McLaren fellow race driver have said about the input into the process.
I partly agree about the topic. Alonso should have tried to work it out instead of leaving, but not with demanding #1 status. He has skills, but to demand instant #1 does not do justice to those.
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#20
femi
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 08:42
Originally posted by Ricardo F1
I'm a McLaren outsider and I regret Alonso leaving too. It's crap they couldn't sort it out.
#21
Owen
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 08:49
Originally posted by COUGAR508
It is just disappointing that a way could not be found to ensure that a driver of Alonso's undoubted quality stayed at McLaren. But it would seem that he functions best as the undisputed number one driver in a team.
Yep.
That's a good summary of the whole sorry affair.
#22
vlcc
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 10:37
Originally posted by Atreiu
Not thread worthy, IMO.
not so sure..;)
#23
wj_gibson
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 10:53
I think that, as time passes, it will seem that McLaren's "people management" capacities, despite the grandiose claims frequently made by Dennis, Whitmarsh et al, have been proven to be severely lacking in 2007.
#24
vlcc
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 11:00
he really fcked up old ron this year.
he really did EVERYTHING wrong.
unlucky
he really did EVERYTHING wrong.
unlucky
#25
pingu666
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 13:25
sometimes i think macca are overmanged and try tobe too profesional...
#26
Buttoneer
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 13:33
Perhaps this "insider" one of those Alonso offered to pay whenever he beat lewis?
On a mroe serious note, there can be very few people within Mclaren who do not feel some regret that the two parties could not work it out between them and come to an understanding. Regardless of whose 'fault' the breakdown was, the whole team could have been one of the all-time classic pairings. In the end it will go down in history for all the wrong reasons.
What's not to regret?
On a mroe serious note, there can be very few people within Mclaren who do not feel some regret that the two parties could not work it out between them and come to an understanding. Regardless of whose 'fault' the breakdown was, the whole team could have been one of the all-time classic pairings. In the end it will go down in history for all the wrong reasons.
What's not to regret?
#27
HSJ
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 13:57
Originally posted by Buttoneer
Regardless of whose 'fault' the breakdown was, the whole team could have been one of the all-time classic pairings.
I never thought it would work. After McL signed FA, I thought it was a mistake, for both parties. I thought it would be an ever worse match than McLaren-JPM, and it turns out I was right. Even JPM lasted longer at McLaren. I think people were not realistic: they tried to idealize both McLaren and FA and thus think it would work. But in the real world there was little chance of it working out in the long run.
#28
jigc
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 15:22
ha, mclaren will struggle soon 
#29
geGR
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 16:18
Originally posted by Man of the race
Alonso should have tried to work it out instead of leaving, but not with demanding #1 status. He has skills, but to demand instant #1 does not do justice to those.
Fully agree. It is still not clear to me whether "the whole team was against him" or this unhealthy atmosphere "was mostly created by Alonso himself due to the fact he wasn't getting the No1 status he demanded". Either way, I believe he could hardly have handled whatever imaginary or real hurdles were thrown into his path in a more immature way (and we also have his conduct during the last races with Renault last year to back this). In short, although of course only a true insider can truly know what exactly was going on, I tend to think the blame for this "divorce" rests mainly on Alonso's shoulders...
#30
SlateGray
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 16:58
Originally posted by EVO2
Looks like Alonso will be back at Renault after all.
But is he worth having with all that primadonna baggage ?
After all it's certain that HK will leave the team as he has made it abundantly clear he expects equal treatment and an opportunity to compete for the WDC.
If ever there was a case of a driver saying "Ron, here I am, come and sign me" this is it !
So, who will Briatori get to sit in the other car ? Obviously nobody with urgent ambition.
Oh, and Renault's lawyers better write into Alonso's contract that he doesn't get a laptop nor a mobile phone or at least he's barred from using email and text messaging.
And the second driver's contract better say he must always ensure his car remains 2 tenths slower than Alonso at all times.
Is that any way to run a RACING team ?
Worked for Schumacher and Ferrari
#31
Atreiu
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 17:22
That's called taking a step back to go two foward.
Renault were not ready for the transition to Bridgestones and losing Alonso at the same time. So now they 'reassemble' so in the future they be able to move on without traumas when Alonso leaves again. In the meantime, they can give the 2nd seat to Piquet and prepare him for the future too, provided he is good enough (and I do think so).
As for Kovalainen, if he remains, he better shut up and drive because it won't be easy riding along Alonso in Alonso's team. If he leaves, then I don't know...
Renault were not ready for the transition to Bridgestones and losing Alonso at the same time. So now they 'reassemble' so in the future they be able to move on without traumas when Alonso leaves again. In the meantime, they can give the 2nd seat to Piquet and prepare him for the future too, provided he is good enough (and I do think so).
As for Kovalainen, if he remains, he better shut up and drive because it won't be easy riding along Alonso in Alonso's team. If he leaves, then I don't know...
#32
Buttoneer
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 17:49
Is that because one of them was not Kimi Raikkonen?Originally posted by HSJ
I never thought it would work.
#33
Mauseri
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 18:18
Obviously. Kimi is the most adaptable driver andwill drive fast almost anything!Originally posted by Buttoneer
Is that because one of them was not Kimi Raikkonen?
Unlike Alonso who couldnt beat littl Louis.
#34
britishtrident
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 20:40
Originally posted by micra_k10
Obviously. Kimi is the most adaptable driver andwill drive fast almost anything!
It took Kimi half a season before he was regularly out performing Massa who lets face is just a typical Ferrari number two. However once Kimi settled in he was remarkably consistent --- which he also had been at McLaren when they gave him a a car that held together to the end of the race.
As to Alonso at Renault if HK stays HK will out perform him, Alonso has lost it he started to unravel at the back end of the 2006 season. Remember China 2006 ? Alonso he was moaning Renault weren't giving him enough support.
While it looks like poor Fissy is stuck with Alonso again BUT ALONSO STILL HASN'T SIGNED --- money issue ? I suspect he hasd been offered a lot less (1/5th or 1/10th ?) than McLaren were paying ?
#35
HSJ
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 20:46
Originally posted by Buttoneer
Is that because one of them was not Kimi Raikkonen?
How original of you. Well, you can believe whatever you like. Fact is that I thought it would not work. You can check my posts on that topic when FA's McL contract was made public.
#36
AyePirate
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 21:55
Originally posted by SlateGray
Worked for Schumacher and Ferrari
Schumacher never said an ill word about his team or its partners in public.
#37
Mauseri
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 22:03
It's dissappointing Alonso realised that before long he would be in the shadows of Lewis... he wasnt prepared to become a number two and ran away.Originally posted by COUGAR508
It is just disappointing that a way could not be found to ensure that a driver of Alonso's undoubted quality stayed at McLaren. But it would seem that he functions best as the undisputed number one driver in a team.
#38
EVO2
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 22:48
"Worked for Schumacher and Ferrari"Is that any way to run a RACING team ?
My point entirely : Ferrari has been a much more exciting team to watch this year with two excellent drivers allowed to race each other. No real racing fan can have been pleased to see good drivers like Eddie Irvine and Rubeno ordered to pull over to let Michael Schumacher past.
Schumacher's achievements would be even more impressive had they been achieved without team orders.
If he doesn't gets his own way and has to fight for every point, so will Alonso's.
Knowing Ron Dennis' long term commitment to equal treatment, Alonso was never going to be happy at McLaren.
I doubt whether many at McLaren are genuinely sad to see him leave the team.
#39
Kilomeister
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 22:55
Originally posted by micra_k10
Obviously. Kimi is the most adaptable driver andwill drive fast almost anything!
I'm always slightly baffled by those who claim that Alonso has somehow been 'found out' by not beating Lewis Hamilton over the course of last season.
Let's face it, Lewis Hamilton is no ordinary rookie. He is clearly a very special talent. And I take the view that Alonso is a special driver as well (as is Kimi Raikkonen).
The fact that Alonso accumulated an equal number of points to Hamilton (and broadly matched him on pace) in a season in which he rarely drove to his potential, made a number of uncharacteristic errors, was clearly unhappy and had a relationship with his team that had almost completely broken down towards the end of the season, suggests that Alonso must have something going for him.
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#40
Will
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 23:13
Originally posted by as65p
But is it worth it for McLaren to go through all this again, assuming that HK is indeed as fast or, heaven forbid, faster than Hamilton? What if Heikki behaves awkwardly, like insisting on such stuff as previously agreed team strategies?
I personally feel that providing both Lewis and Heikki develop their technical abilities over the winter a Hamilton-Kovalainen partnership may well be very productive. Although ambitious enough to push Lewis, Heikki seems a reasonably relaxed personality that should help Lewis to lighten up a little and Heikki is also unlikely to be as paranoid and confrontational as Alonso, given that he coped very well with a difficult start to the season.
#41
DLaw
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 23:28
Well said Kilomeister.
Alonso has to be one tough sob to finished out the season and still performing under the circumstances. This is a guy who fought the mighty Schumacher mano a mano and came out on top for two years.
If Ron has been less incestous, McLaren would have both championships in the bag.
Why in the world he poached all these great drivers, Kimi, JPM, then Alonso and not take advantage their full potential is beyond me?
Spare me all these labeling about being a whiner, blackmailer, paronoid...blah blah blah.
Alonso has to be one tough sob to finished out the season and still performing under the circumstances. This is a guy who fought the mighty Schumacher mano a mano and came out on top for two years.
If Ron has been less incestous, McLaren would have both championships in the bag.
Why in the world he poached all these great drivers, Kimi, JPM, then Alonso and not take advantage their full potential is beyond me?
Spare me all these labeling about being a whiner, blackmailer, paronoid...blah blah blah.
#42
DLaw
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 23:29
Will,
All you are saying is to look for a #2 to support Lewis.
All you are saying is to look for a #2 to support Lewis.
#43
Melbourne Park
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 23:35
Originally posted by DLaw
Well said Kilomeister.
Alonso has to be one tough sob to finished out the season and still performing under the circumstances. This is a guy who fought the mighty Schumacher mano a mano and came out on top for two years.
If Ron has been less incestous, McLaren would have both championships in the bag.
Why in the world he poached all these great drivers, Kimi, JPM, then Alonso and not take advantage their full potential is beyond me?
Spare me all these labeling about being a whiner, blackmailer, paronoid...blah blah blah.
But MS was in a different team. FA fought the rookie Hamilton and was beaten. That doesn't mean that Hamilton is better than MS though.
#44
Asperon
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 23:41
Originally posted by Melbourne Park
But MS was in a different team. FA fought the rookie Hamilton and was beaten. That doesn't mean that Hamilton is better than MS though.
The claims of Hamilton 'beating' Alonso are truly funny and wreak of desperation. Its interesting that Dennis has had at his disposal the two best drivers of this generation and has been unable to win a WC with them, yet they have won WCs without him.
#45
Melbourne Park
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 23:46
Originally posted by Asperon
The claims of Hamilton 'beating' Alonso are truly funny and wreak of desperation. Its interesting that Dennis has had at his disposal the two best drivers of this generation and has been unable to win a WC with them, yet they have won WCs without him.
It could be because Ferrari and Renault made better cars in recent years. I think McLaren could have easily won this year. In fact the difference between the Ferrari was not large. And McLaren was fast a couple of years ago, but un-reliable.
This year, the McLaren was more reliable than the Ferrari.
So in some ways, McLaren has improved upon its previous weaknesses.
#46
DLaw
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Posted 21 November 2007 - 00:07
Yeah, and spare me the details about Alonso beaten by the rookie either.....wish all you want but that's not the case.
#47
Melbourne Park
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Posted 21 November 2007 - 00:26
Maybe - the thing for me was that Hamilton seemed quicker than the average rookie.Originally posted by DLaw
Yeah, and spare me the details about Alonso beaten by the rookie either.....wish all you want but that's not the case.
#48
nestor
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Posted 21 November 2007 - 01:03
Originally posted by Melbourne Park
But MS was in a different team. FA fought the rookie Hamilton and was beaten. That doesn't mean that Hamilton is better than MS though.
That doesn't mean that Hamilton is better than FA either .
#49
Melbourne Park
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Posted 21 November 2007 - 01:43
I agree. I enjoyed the experience of both of them together, because it revealed aspects of FA that I did not know before.Originally posted by nestor
That doesn't mean that Hamilton is better than FA either .
IMO Hamilton must get better though, and I think he might be an exceptional driver. But while his start in F1 has been exceptional, its just his first year and who knows, he might not progress, or he might be like Mark Webber and not get good cars. Or he might build a MS franchise with McLaren making top cars for years. We don't know, but for once its been fun watching the personality clashes at McLaren rather than just watching the boring on track processions.
#50
HSJ
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Posted 21 November 2007 - 06:17
Originally posted by HSJ
How original of you. Well, you can believe whatever you like. Fact is that I thought it would not work. You can check my posts on that topic when FA's McL contract was made public.
I suppose I should add this for you, Buttoneer: Kimi is hardly the only driver to have been a relatively good match for McLaren. DC was too, as was MH, AP, AS, and others. But it did seem to me like FA would not be. For me it seemed that way after seeing that JPM didn't quite fit in, and by his nature I thought JPM was still more of a "McLaren driver" than FA would be. Hence I expected that FA would not fit in, and that's the way it happened. Why exactly? We can debate that until the cows come home.
Originally posted by micra_k10
It's dissappointing Alonso realised that before long he would be in the shadows of Lewis... he wasnt prepared to become a number two and ran away.
This is quite possibly true as well. But I think FA would not have lasted very long at McLaren even with another teammate. Same for JPM btw.
