Kimi vs. Massa scoreboard vol. 2

CORRECTION TO POLL. OPTION 1 SHOULD BE: Massa has learned from his mistakes and beats Kimi convincingly!

In 2007 it turned out that Kimi beat Massa in the end, although it looked quite even for lot of the season and Massa had dominated winter tests.

Massa was still the jungleboy, hoping for better luck, or rather better driving management from his part. Kimi seems to turn out with solid results, even when he wasnt meant to.

Now that their second season together is getting closer, it's time to get this thread going again and predict. Dont hold your thoughts, write them, so that those can be used against you at the end of the season.

Will Kimi's gained experience with Ferrari and his attitude of never throwing in the tovel count again? Or will Massa have learnt from his mistakes and polished his skills?

WTF? ..

I voted..

"It'll be close fight, but Kimi is the one who deliveres in the end, team orders would apply again."

I think we should wait at least 3 month for this thread

Eventual percentage prediction:

1. 23 %
2. 45 %
3. 24 %
4. 8 %

Ok, a useless post but had to do it anyway.

not again such a bashing thread

Come on Micra, we're on holidays.

Kimi dominates, South/Middle/Latin or even plain Americans have not been successfull in winning the WDC since errr 1991 ;)

Last season Kimi came to Massa's team and won. In 2008 he will know the Bridgestones, he will know the team and the people and he'll have the confidence of champion. Based on these factors it will not be really close between FM and KR.

I genuinely thought that Kimi would dominate Felipe last year, however the fiery Brazilian proved me wrong and at the same time, I had to change some of my opinions on Kimi.

However, I do feel that 2008 will be the year that Kimi will simply run away from Felipe and if Ferrari produce a great car, the rest of the field.

My reasons, there will be no issues about the team understanding him and vice versa, he will understand the tyres and the car much better. Plus, they can use his input to setup the car more for him, he didn't have that privilege last year as McLaren held him back far too long.

On raw pace, I believe he is better both in qualifying and in race pace but Massa could definitely beat him in qualifying. Kimi was poor in qualifying this year but look back to previous years and Kimi would often be the fastest over a single lap. Race pace is no concern, he is very consistent and can pull out hotlaps when needed.

The TC argument doesn't really interest me, Felipe has been a racer since an early age and driven without TC for a very long time. The only thing I see happening is that he will make more mistakes than Kimi, just like he did in 2006.

Good luck to both Kimi and Felipe, hopefully they will keep fighting at the top.

I am a Kimi fan but am not bothered to see Felipe win, as long as both give 100% and given every opportunity to race I am fine with it.

Even by the end of the season, it was pretty close between Massa and Kimi. Certainly there was nothing between them in the last two dry races of the season. I would expect this closeness to continue into 2008 - if Massa has a little more luck and removes his (slight but significant) propensity for silly mistakes, he'll be a title contender if the car's capable.

Why do you guys force something that could be enjoyable, to becoming unenjoyable? Why do you help promote the ridiculous theory that your teammate is your enemy?

What will happen is that both guys will have a great time racing each other as well as the other 20 drivers on the grid, trying to maximize their score each race and be in the fight for the championship right up to the final race. And I am going to enjoy watching the events unfold.

Terrible poll. The only pro-Massa option is tied to him winning the championship. You know this will end up a +3000 post thread, and you decide to kick it off with a half arsed poll? Shouldn't your last anti-Brasil thread have taught you to stop and think? I ain't voting.

Hammy will win the championship, with FA runner-up.

BTW mika_k10 Hammy never said "I'm cooler than kimi", that was a headline invented by planet F1

Now KR will not be a new driver at Ferrari, and that removes the small edge FM had in early 2007. The removal of TC might also hurt Felipe more than Kimi. However, FM has shown, that he is a very capable time-trialist and I expect, that the qualifications will stay very even between KR and FM. If FM can qualify constantly ahead of KR, then the better race pace of Kimi will be nullified. Still I think, that Felipe has to drive closer to his absolute maximum than Kimi and this will produce some costly errors, which will turn the power of balance to KR. Kimi will be ahead of Felipe in the final points table, but KR's big dominance would be a small surpise to me.

With no traction control, no launch control, and possibly no tire warmers; I don't think grid position will determine the order of the first lap.

who really cares anymore? Not only is this thread ridiculously premature but, in all honesty, I'm looking forward to watching fireworks at Renault and possibly McLaren next year. This pairing will suddenly become boring for many reasons.

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Why do you guys force something that could be enjoyable, to becoming unenjoyable? Why do you help promote the ridiculous theory that your teammate is your enemy?

Originally posted by Yellowmc
I genuinely thought that Kimi would dominate Felipe last year, however the fiery Brazilian proved me wrong and at the same time, I had to change some of my opinions on Kimi.

However, I do feel that 2008 will be the year that Kimi will simply run away from Felipe and if Ferrari produce a great car, the rest of the field.

My reasons, there will be no issues about the team understanding him and vice versa, he will understand the tyres and the car much better. Plus, they can use his input to setup the car more for him, he didn't have that privilege last year as McLaren held him back far too long.

On raw pace, I believe he is better both in qualifying and in race pace but Massa could definitely beat him in qualifying. Kimi was poor in qualifying this year but look back to previous years and Kimi would often be the fastest over a single lap. Race pace is no concern, he is very consistent and can pull out hotlaps when needed.

The TC argument doesn't really interest me, Felipe has been a racer since an early age and driven without TC for a very long time. The only thing I see happening is that he will make more mistakes than Kimi, just like he did in 2006.

Good luck to both Kimi and Felipe, hopefully they will keep fighting at the top.

These are my predictions/sentiments too, saves me the typing-I could not really warm up to any of the poll options, though, that's why I didn't vote.

What do Massa and jungleboy have to do with each other?


It will be close again and can go either way. I think the first 4 or 5 races will be crucial to determine how the season will develop. Will Ferrari be dominant? Will both cars be perfectly reliable? Will Raikkonen get a distinct edge in qualifying?

Honestly, there are simply to many unanswered questions to make any prediction better than a simple guess.

my biggest knock against Massa is he has not shown very good race-craft. His wins come from the pole (where he decisively beat Kimi this year) or not at all. I don't expect Kimi to be as weak in qualifying in '08, so I predict the reigning WDC to tally at least 20 points above Felipe.

Kimi WILL NOT dominate Massa if he isn't favoured. If they are given equal status (unlike this season), then Massa will not lose out.

Originally posted by SchumiF1
Kimi WILL NOT dominate Massa if he isn't favoured. If they are given equal status (unlike this season), then Massa will not lose out.

These Schufocos make me laugh Next you will say Schumi had equal status with his teammates

Originally posted by man from martinlaakso
Now KR will not be a new driver at Ferrari, and that removes the small edge FM had in early 2007. The removal of TC might also hurt Felipe more than Kimi. However, FM has shown, that he is a very capable time-trialist and I expect, that the qualifications will stay very even between KR and FM. If FM can qualify constantly ahead of KR, then the better race pace of Kimi will be nullified. Still I think, that Felipe has to drive closer to his absolute maximum than Kimi and this will produce some costly errors, which will turn the power of balance to KR. Kimi will be ahead of Felipe in the final points table, but KR's big dominance would be a small surpise to me.

If, If, If... guys... seat back, enjoy a beer and wait until half of next season.... till there it is only a futile exercise of bs....

Cheers

Originally posted by Yellowmc
I genuinely thought that Kimi would dominate Felipe last year, however the fiery Brazilian proved me wrong and at the same time, I had to change some of my opinions on Kimi.

However, I do feel that 2008 will be the year that Kimi will simply run away from Felipe and if Ferrari produce a great car, the rest of the field.

My reasons, there will be no issues about the team understanding him and vice versa, he will understand the tyres and the car much better. Plus, they can use his input to setup the car more for him, he didn't have that privilege last year as McLaren held him back far too long.

On raw pace, I believe he is better both in qualifying and in race pace but Massa could definitely beat him in qualifying. Kimi was poor in qualifying this year but look back to previous years and Kimi would often be the fastest over a single lap. Race pace is no concern, he is very consistent and can pull out hotlaps when needed.

The TC argument doesn't really interest me, Felipe has been a racer since an early age and driven without TC for a very long time. The only thing I see happening is that he will make more mistakes than Kimi, just like he did in 2006.

Good luck to both Kimi and Felipe, hopefully they will keep fighting at the top.

I am a Kimi fan but am not bothered to see Felipe win, as long as both give 100% and given every opportunity to race I am fine with it.

I agree with your post, although regarding TC I thought it interesting that Massa wasn't very enthusastic about lack of TC, while KR seemed much more positive. I mean their comments after first testing without TC. Not that I can be bothered to find quotes.

Too early for this thread, I think.

Originally posted by micra_k10
Next you will say Schumi had equal status with his teammates

He pretty much did, although there's slightly more to it than just that. Not that you would understand.

SchumiF1, are you same guy as in f1network.net?

Originally posted by Cinquecento
Terrible poll. The only pro-Massa option is tied to him winning the championship. You know this will end up a +3000 post thread, and you decide to kick it off with a half arsed poll? Shouldn't your last anti-Brasil thread have taught you to stop and think? I ain't voting.

Yes, Where is the "Massa dominates Kimi" option?

Originally posted by Yellowmc
I genuinely thought that Kimi would dominate Felipe last year, however the fiery Brazilian proved me wrong and at the same time, I had to change some of my opinions on Kimi.

However, I do feel that 2008 will be the year that Kimi will simply run away from Felipe and if Ferrari produce a great car, the rest of the field.

My reasons, there will be no issues about the team understanding him and vice versa, he will understand the tyres and the car much better. Plus, they can use his input to setup the car more for him, he didn't have that privilege last year as McLaren held him back far too long.

On raw pace, I believe he is better both in qualifying and in race pace but Massa could definitely beat him in qualifying. Kimi was poor in qualifying this year but look back to previous years and Kimi would often be the fastest over a single lap. Race pace is no concern, he is very consistent and can pull out hotlaps when needed.

The TC argument doesn't really interest me, Felipe has been a racer since an early age and driven without TC for a very long time. The only thing I see happening is that he will make more mistakes than Kimi, just like he did in 2006.

Good luck to both Kimi and Felipe, hopefully they will keep fighting at the top.

I am a Kimi fan but am not bothered to see Felipe win, as long as both give 100% and given every opportunity to race I am fine with it.

Couldn't of said it better.

Originally posted by metz

Yes, Where is the "Massa dominates Kimi" option?

This poll is adjusted the likely result in mind. If 1.5 options isnt enough for Massa go cry me a river.

By the way, I expect a repeat of the 2nd half of 2007: both right about even in qualifying, Kimi quicker in the races except for the odd round where Massa will be able to match him.

Originally posted by F1Champion


Couldn't of said it better.

Yes you could.

"Couldn't HAVE said it better."

(pet hate)

Originally posted by micra_k10

This poll is adjusted the likely result in mind.

(Sort of like the FIA);)

This ruling is adjusted to keep the liked results in mind.

I admit it though that there is a mistake in the options for pro-Massa. If you think he surely beats Kimi but still doesnt win championship, I hope you vote the first option anyway. That means, he dominates Kimi more or propably less.

Better option would be: "Massa has learned from his mistakes and beats Kimi convincingly!"

Originally posted by micra_k10
I admit it though that there is a mistake in the options for pro-Massa. If you think he surely beats Kimi but still doesnt win championship, I hope you vote the first option anyway. That means, he dominates Kimi more or propably less.

Better option would be: "Massa has learned from his mistakes and beats Kimi convincingly!"

What do you really think would be margin of difference between this current poll and that option? 3-4%?? More? Less??

Originally posted by Menace




What do you really think would be margin of difference between this current poll and that option? 3-4%?? More? Less??

About the margin my earlier percentage prediction differs from the current score.

It could turn out either way is what I said, cos it could. You never know what can happen in this game.

Voted "it can goe either way", because....it can go either way!;)

I think it's pretty clear (despite the end result of 2007) that this duo is very close and each driver has its strength (you could say Massa has some edge on qualies and Kimi on races, but this is way simplistic, imo).

I'm sure KR x FM 2008 will be another battle decided by small details. If one of them get 2 or 3 DNFs early in the season, for instance, and the championship is as tightly contested as it was in 2007, Ferrari may decide to back one driver (not with better equipment, I believe, but on choice of strategy).

Originally posted by micra_k10

This poll is adjusted the likely result in mind.

Well said.

Massa had experience of the Ferrari setup & car last season for the early parts which Kimi didn't have. He doesn't have that advantage anymore, and Kimi showed his class in the 2nd half of the season. I predict he will own Massa next season. Massa's racesuit will have an attachment for a leash on the neck.

Originally posted by Brian O Flaherty
Massa had experience of the Ferrari setup & car last season for the early parts which Kimi didn't have. He doesn't have that advantage anymore, and Kimi showed his class in the 2nd half of the season. I predict he will own Massa next season. Massa's racesuit will have an attachment for a leash on the neck.

funny....if not tragic

Originally posted by molive
Voted "it can goe either way", because....it can go either way!;)

I think it's pretty clear (despite the end result of 2007) that this duo is very close and each driver has its strength (you could say Massa has some edge on qualies and Kimi on races, but this is way simplistic, imo).

I'm sure KR x FM 2008 will be another battle decided by small details. If one of them get 2 or 3 DNFs early in the season, for instance, and the championship is as tightly contested as it was in 2007, Ferrari may decide to back one driver (not with better equipment, I believe, but on choice of strategy).

Molive... you should be banned from this board.... since when there is a place for well balanced oppinions here?

Cheers

Originally posted by speedmaster
Molive... you should be banned from this board.... since when there is a place for well balanced oppinions here?

Cheers

It's not lieing to not tell the whole truth. He forgot mentioning Kimi will surely be the winner in the end

Originally posted by micra_k10

It's not lieing to not tell the whole truth. He forgot mentioning Kimi will surely be the winner in the end

That remains to be seen...;)

Cheers, Merry Xmas and a great 2008 to all!

Massa will dominate Kimi next season.

Originally posted by kekekeke
Massa will dominate Kimi next season.

I would like to see that happen, but I seriously doubt it.

BTW: This your attempt to provoke is a rather see through one.

We'll see. At least the rapid kimi fanboys will have no excuses like "different team, different tyres, car not suited for him, etc" if he has a poor start to the season like last year. I wonder how they will try to justify his performances. Probably blame it on the ECU but wait, Massa in the same car is outperforming him!

Originally posted by kekekeke
Massa will dominate Kimi next season.

I don't know if Massa will dominate him, but I'm sure if given equal chances then he has a very good chance of beating Räikkönen. The Finn is good, but he's no superstar and he ain't better than Massa.

Originally posted by kekekeke
We'll see. At least the rapid kimi fanboys will have no excuses like "different team, different tyres, car not suited for him, etc" if he has a poor start to the season like last year. I wonder how they will try to justify his performances. Probably blame it on the ECU but wait, Massa in the same car is outperforming him!

Hopefully we'll enjoy more of the rabid massa fanboys suffering in 2008