Melbourne Grand Prix faces axe

From news.com.au :

"MELBOURNE'S Formula One Grand Prix appears doomed, with F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone claiming that he and the sport's teams and sponsors want to quit Melbourne."

Full articale can be seen HERE.

I didn't open the link, but I suppose we could read this as "Bernie wants more money and threatens to take his business elsewhere". Am I wrong?

Well, it`s the time for Mr E`s annually rant - more dough, more ho!

Let me summarise :

Australia is financially bad for us. If you have a night race it would be good for us, and we might not go away.

Wah wah wah.

etc.

Let them take it elsewhere. Same with the British GP, let them race around in the desert with no scenary at all. Do those idiots know how slow these cars are going to look on a tilke track with 1 mile straights with no background for any sort of visual scale?? They are half wits and i am looking forward to the 16 race Dubai F1 Series Season in 2009 with all 200 of their fans in the grand stands. Another thing... doesnt it get stupidly cold at night in the desert?

Adelaide proved it could do night racing with the lemans 24hrs.

Adelaide actually care about F1 unlike Melbourne

Adelaide circuit was always better anyway.

A South Australian Govt could probably get away with spending tax payers money on a race if it was for nothing else but to spite the Victorians.

The Adelaide Grand Prix was always one of the fans and drivers favourite events. If Victoria can't be stuffed sorting things out I hope to heck South Aus and Adelaide step up to take care of things properly like they did from 85-94.

Most likely the GP will be moved to Middle East where some dictator is willing to fill Bernie´s pockets in order to polish their national image. Needless to say, we can expect Tilke-designed track and empty grandstands.

Yeah, I hear Bur...sorry Myanmar... are looking for some good PR at the moment, an F1 race would sure fit the bill.

Although I hope that Australia keeps a F1 race, I do hope that Bernie get's his way regarding the night race.
I prefer my racing at convenient times ;)

I prefer my racing at convenient times

Try being in the part of the world where we see around 80% of all F1 racing at inconvenient times - then remind me why we need to increase this to 85% ?

Honestly, you don't know how good you've got it!

Having said that, night racing seems likea fun idea to me.

I wish Bernie would just shut the hell up sometimes. I like him, for the most part, but the guy has gotten fanatically greedy.

The amount of money he charges just to put on a Grand Prix makes him a ludicrous amount of profit - if he halved his asking figure, he'd probably still make a metric tonne of money, whilst allowing circuits to stage a race without bleeding cash all over the place.

Sometimes that guy seems to be 100% in touch with what Formula 1 is. Then at other times - like this - he seems so far removed it's unreal.

Originally posted by kar
Adelaide proved it could do night racing with the lemans 24hrs.

Adelaide actually care about F1 unlike Melbourne

Adelaide circuit was always better anyway.

A South Australian Govt could probably get away with spending tax payers money on a race if it was for nothing else but to spite the Victorians.

The Adelaide Grand Prix was always one of the fans and drivers favourite events. If Victoria can't be stuffed sorting things out I hope to heck South Aus and Adelaide step up to take care of things properly like they did from 85-94.

The adelaide track is too dangerous for current F1.

I say if bernie wants to move our grand prix somewhere else then fine. I'll live. but this is just his usual bullshit talk.

He wont get any more money than the standard fee + 10% every year. That's all we can afford. bernie will settle for a night race but that will depend on costings for the lighting system. There was that lighting test at Calder Park a few months ago that was apparantly very successful. It really wouldn't surprise me if bernie gets his wish within a year or two.

I don't see what the issue is.

Formula 1 is a business and Bernie is making sensible business decisions.

Tell Bernie to jam it up his ass sideways.

If it leaves Aus then so be it, sun will shine and life will go on, no great loss at all

Originally posted by Mat


The adelaide track is too dangerous for current F1.

The circa 1994 one is certainly. But if they can race in singapore, melbourne, valencia etc, they certainly can bring the old adelaide circuit up to modern safety standards.

Originally posted by kar
Adelaide proved it could do night racing with the lemans 24hrs.

Adelaide actually care about F1 unlike Melbourne

Adelaide circuit was always better anyway.

A South Australian Govt could probably get away with spending tax payers money on a race if it was for nothing else but to spite the Victorians.

The Adelaide Grand Prix was always one of the fans and drivers favourite events. If Victoria can't be stuffed sorting things out I hope to heck South Aus and Adelaide step up to take care of things properly like they did from 85-94.

I agree with everything you say, Melbourne does not deserve the Grand Prix, Adelaide was great as the whole city got behind it. But i guess i might be a little bias as i was there at the last one in '95 and it was the best party of my life

Originally posted by jez33
I don't see what the issue is.

Formula 1 is a business and Bernie is making sensible business decisions.

He is making sensible short-term business decisions. More-money-to-me-NOW. Moving F1 away from places where it is popular, to places where F1 is not nor will be popular hurts the sport in the long run.

Originally posted by ozone
From news.com.au :

"MELBOURNE'S Formula One Grand Prix appears doomed, with F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone claiming that he and the sport's teams and sponsors want to quit Melbourne."

Full articale can be seen HERE.

BE is a flacid old ****.

I feel bad that F1 has to be dragged through the **** as a result of this assholes greed.... More and more it just comes off too me much like the American OW scene - like a drug addict that must hit rock bottom until someone realizes what to do to properly build the series out.

I seriously hope that more tracks basically agree to NOT do business with BE - ala Tony George. Even if that is at the expense of seeing many good friends, eating well and drinking all the while enjoying the sounds and cars at the USGP.

Originally posted by EvilPhil II
Let them take it elsewhere. Same with the British GP, let them race around in the desert with no scenary at all. Do those idiots know how slow these cars are going to look on a tilke track with 1 mile straights with no background for any sort of visual scale?? They are half wits and i am looking forward to the 16 race Dubai F1 Series Season in 2009 with all 200 of their fans in the grand stands. Another thing... doesnt it get stupidly cold at night in the desert?

I WOULD LOVE to see BE bet the farm on the Middle East, let it run off as a fad for 3 years and then come back to nothing but former core tracks which would then dictate to BE what's going to be paid to run their tracks.

Originally posted by Mat


The adelaide track is too dangerous for current F1.

What track isn't?

As a Melbournian, I'll be glad to see the Vic government stop lining Bernie's pockets.

Just Bernie being Bernie: GP chairman

Originally posted by kar
The circa 1994 one is certainly. But if they can race in singapore, melbourne, valencia etc, they certainly can bring the old adelaide circuit up to modern safety standards.

The 94 version will be almost identical to any current version. There are homes, offices, pubs, primary schools all around the track. Apart from the park section there is no room to move. It is impossible to create more run off.

Melbourne has plenty of run-off.

Singapore i havent seen much of, but for it to be approved it will be more like Melbourne than Monaco.

Originally posted by Spunout
Most likely the GP will be moved to Middle East where some dictator is willing to fill Bernie´s pockets in order to polish their national image. Needless to say, we can expect Tilke-designed track and empty grandstands.

If that's the the case I wouldn't mind my circuit being used, of course only after I got paid for it.
hehe

http://forums.autosp...&threadid=99319

Originally posted by Atreiu



If that's the the case I wouldn't mind my circuit being used, of course only after I got paid for it.
hehe

http://forums.autosp...&threadid=99319

Add 5-6 more chicanes and who knows...;)

Is this so all the people in Europe dont have to wake up at some stupid hour to watch a gp....pffft get a life bernie you old ****.

We have to watch basically all of them at a ****ed hour.

No loss IMO if they dont have an Australian GP. Melbourne is one of the worst tracks.

Originally posted by Spunout
Most likely the GP will be moved to Middle East where some dictator is willing to fill Bernie´s pockets in order to polish their national image. Needless to say, we can expect Tilke-designed track and empty grandstands.

Well, dictators have been quite well known for sctratching each other`s backs in the past haven`t they?

Just another thought... why on earth is our esteemed friend Mr. Ecclestone committed to bringing Formula 1 to "new markets" where the majority of the population cannot even afford to buy a motorsport magazine, let alone even the most basic of motor cars?

Originally posted by jondon


Well, dictators have been quite well known for sctratching each other`s backs in the past haven`t they?

As long as things don´t go further than that...

http://images.washti...105544-6377.jpg

And who can forget this...uh, "special" moment

http://estaticos02.c...158158877_0.jpg



Not to suggest any of these people qualify as dictators, of course

Originally posted by Mat


The adelaide track is too dangerous for current F1.

I haven't looked at it, but how safe is Monaco? The drivers also say they love Monaco because its a street circuit and more fun to drive. And its their heads that are at risk. IF Adelaide is serious, they should put a bid together. It seems from radio talk in Melbourne, the government is tired here, and they must find it difficult to make a strong bid to keep the race. So another Aussie city should get their acts together and put on a night race.

Melbourne looses 35 million per year by having the GP. But it also has a major event, that pulls in vast sums itself, and it has profound marketing benefits as well. But our government is under pressure in other areas, such as its failure to invest in water infrastructure. When residents have their gardens threatened (we are not allowed now to water our lawns) then residents of the "garden city" attack the government for poor resource allocation. The government is getting tired here, having been in power for several years, if they choose not to have a night race, it shows to me another example of their inability to get things done.

The main problem is with Bernie´s fee etc it is practically impossible to organize an F1 race without huge losses. British GP is losing money. French GP is losing money. The list goes on and on. How profitable can all these new GPs be? They spend loads of money for building huge Tilkedromes and VIP facilities in the middle of nowhere, then organize races for half-empty grandstands. Not exactly great business plan, I´d say. The catch is, some countries are willing to pay the bills. Mostly countries that want to "polish" their national image by filling Mr. Ecclestone´s pockets.

Originally posted by Riker!
Is this so all the people in Europe dont have to wake up at some stupid hour to watch a gp....pffft get a life bernie you old ****.

We have to watch basically all of them at a ****ed hour.

No loss IMO if they dont have an Australian GP. Melbourne is one of the worst tracks.

Allthough I also think not having an Australian GP would be a great loss, I do think Bernie has a point.

The fact that people in the Americas and Australia have to watch F1 at "stupid" hours is not of any interest to F1.
The real money is coming from people, companies, sponsors, TV-stations, viewers that are located in GMT +3 or -3 hours.

And selfish as it might be, I live in that timezone hence kudos to Bernie because of not having to get up for the start of the season in the middle of the night.

The timing for this is quite good. A few days ago Mr. Brumby said that if Victoria didn't dredge Port Phillip Bay, it may turn into a backwater like Adelaide, loosing events and people. I wonder if this is the first sign of the transformation ;)

Originally posted by ozone


Try being in the part of the world where we see around 80% of all F1 racing at inconvenient times - then remind me why we need to increase this to 85% ?

Honestly, you don't know how good you've got it!

Having said that, night racing seems likea fun idea to me.

Yeah, I love lunch an evening races as much as the next guy but I already get 13-14 of those. It seems childish to hope you guys get screwed EVEN more.

Plus there's something quite special about dragging myself out of bed at 3am for the first race of the year.

Originally posted by Spunout
The main problem is with Bernie´s fee etc it is practically impossible to organize an F1 race without huge losses. How profitable can these new GPs be? They spend loads of money for building huge Tilkedromes and VIP facilities in the middle of nowhere, then organize races for half-empty grandstands. The catch is, some countries are willing to pay the bills. Mostly countries that want to "polish" their national image.

I guess the reason they are not attended is because of high ticket prices!

The Tilkedrome monopoly is just another example of the way the FIA operates, there seems to be a special deal going on IMO, but we do not know what it is. I do know that the tracks look much the same. When watching a race, its not easy to know anymore where the race is. Is that Shanghai, or Turkey? Or where is it? I can tell Monaco straight away!

Why not have some low speed street circuit races?

The way its going with F1, anything is possible. I remember when Jordan got Vodafone involved in F1, and a huge sponsorship deal was made. Then at the last second, Ferrari got the sponsorship, sealing the doom of Jordan, but the Ferrari became a Vodafone. Then a a few years later, the McLaren is now a Vodafone. The sponsors don't much care which team they use as long as its in the public eye.

Maybe the FIA should build a big Tilke track designed to change the shape of the track. And then race 3 to 5 races in a row at that track, but switch the track around every race. And re-sign the track, so that it looks different. Build a few sets of pits, and have plastic trees and plants that look like they are from which race its supposed to be. One week its plastic palm trees, then next its oak trees. Heck why not just use holograms layed on top of the broadcast image. It might even be more authentic than today's events anyway, since the tracks they use seem quite sterile, European tracks. They seem to have simply transplanted them into various country's city backblocks with hardly any connection to the nation and peoples that may even - who knows? - live somewhere near the new transplanted track.

Originally posted by Melbourne Park


I haven't looked at it, but how safe is Monaco? The drivers also say they love Monaco because its a street circuit and more fun to drive. And its their heads that are at risk. IF Adelaide is serious, they should put a bid together. It seems from radio talk in Melbourne, the government is tired here, and they must find it difficult to make a strong bid to keep the race. So another Aussie city should get their acts together and put on a night race.

Melbourne looses 35 million per year by having the GP. But it also has a major event, that pulls in vast sums itself, and it has profound marketing benefits as well. But our government is under pressure in other areas, such as its failure to invest in water infrastructure. When residents have their gardens threatened (we are not allowed now to water our lawns) then residents of the "garden city" attack the government for poor resource allocation. The government is getting tired here, having been in power for several years, if they choose not to have a night race, it shows to me another example of their inability to get things done.

The government rakes in billions by screwing Victorians with hefty and uncalled for speeding fines and excessive stamp duty on housing. Not to mention the billions they make on gaming machine revenue. I think its more a case of mis-management (ie. hosting other events at the same time as the GP) than anything - aswell as mismanagement in other areas like water and road infrastructure.

Still as Mat said its Bernie being Bernie and will depend on what happens re: the night scenario. We'll just wait and see.

Also as a Melbournian i'd hate to see it go (especially to a country with no f1 history) but I'll live aswell. I would love to see it return to Adelaide but sadly that wont happen either.

i believe if melb loses the GP, then aus does - taking it other cities is not an option.

i don't think it would be missed down here: TV scheduling suggests the other races don't rate, and MW might be out of the sport by 2011 so no jingoistic marketing leverage.

Originally posted by gerry nassar


The government rakes in billions by screwing Victorians with hefty and uncalled for speeding fines and excessive stamp duty on housing. Not to mention the billions they make on gaming machine revenue. I think its more a case of mis-management (ie. hosting other events at the same time as the GP) than anything - aswell as mismanagement in other areas like water and road infrastructure.

Agree about stamp duty - if it was removed, there would be no tax on moving one's home. That would result in people living closer to their work and schools, and hence a lot of load on the road system would be taken off. Also taxes on new housing are very high.

I suspect though that the GP adds lots of value overall. But some of those benefits will only become obvious several years after the GP is gone. And then it will be too late. To keep the GP it requires vision, not only by the government, but also on an evening track.

Originally posted by Melbourne Park
I haven't looked at it, but how safe is Monaco? The drivers also say they love Monaco because its a street circuit and more fun to drive. And its their heads that are at risk. IF Adelaide is serious, they should put a bid together. It seems from radio talk in Melbourne, the government is tired here, and they must find it difficult to make a strong bid to keep the race. So another Aussie city should get their acts together and put on a night race.

Melbourne looses 35 million per year by having the GP. But it also has a major event, that pulls in vast sums itself, and it has profound marketing benefits as well. But our government is under pressure in other areas, such as its failure to invest in water infrastructure. When residents have their gardens threatened (we are not allowed now to water our lawns) then residents of the "garden city" attack the government for poor resource allocation. The government is getting tired here, having been in power for several years, if they choose not to have a night race, it shows to me another example of their inability to get things done.

Monaco is pretty unique, and we all know it would never be approved to race if it wasnt established as the jewel in the F1 crown.

I dont think the Adelaide govt are very keen on taking on the F1 event again, remember they have the Clipsal 500 which is a huge success. Ticket prices are reasonable and they get huge crowds. When you also look and see that dont have an exhorbitant fee that they have to pay FOM, they are probably running the Clipsal 500 at a profit. So why go for F1 when you surely wont make a profit? The only benefit is marketing and Adelaide had 10 years of that which they are still benefiting from.

It won't matter which Australian city hosts the F1, bernie wants the race to be at night. I would be surprised if there is not an announcement during or just after the GP this year.

Originally posted by Spunout
The main problem is with Bernie´s fee etc it is practically impossible to organize an F1 race without huge losses. British GP is losing money. French GP is losing money. The list goes on and on. How profitable can all these new GPs be? They spend loads of money for building huge Tilkedromes and VIP facilities in the middle of nowhere, then organize races for half-empty grandstands. Not exactly great business plan, I´d say. The catch is, some countries are willing to pay the bills. Mostly countries that want to "polish" their national image by filling Mr. Ecclestone´s pockets.

Agreed. I'd be surprised if any grand prix crcuit is making money out of their F1 event. It would be interesting if there was detaield info on this.

I can't add anything original, 'cause you anti-Ecclestone guys have said it all! Why the F1 team bosses continue to let him syphon off so much of their money is a complete mystery.

As long as Monaco is still in use for anything faster than billy-cart racing, these circuits are quite safe for F1 racing. R.I.P. F1 GPs at the Nurburgring (not to be confused with the 'Newburgring'), Ostereichring (not to be confused with its castrated and mis-named A1-Ring successor), Hockenheimring (without the chicanes), Paul Ricard (long circuit), Silverstone (pre-1975), etc.

Originally posted by Sébastien

And selfish as it might be, I live in that timezone hence kudos to Bernie because of not having to get up for the start of the season in the middle of the night.

Why does the Aussie GP have to be the first. Start the season with a night race in Malaysia, then hop over to Melbourne. Theres heaps of different ways they could run it but I think it all comes down to Bernie wanting the Aussie GP gone, and now he has found a excuse. It's toast.

Originally posted by Melbourne Park


I haven't looked at it, but how safe is Monaco? The drivers also say they love Monaco because its a street circuit and more fun to drive. And its their heads that are at risk. IF Adelaide is serious, they should put a bid together. It seems from radio talk in Melbourne, the government is tired here, and they must find it difficult to make a strong bid to keep the race. So another Aussie city should get their acts together and put on a night race.

Melbourne looses 35 million per year by having the GP. But it also has a major event, that pulls in vast sums itself, and it has profound marketing benefits as well. But our government is under pressure in other areas, such as its failure to invest in water infrastructure. When residents have their gardens threatened (we are not allowed now to water our lawns) then residents of the "garden city" attack the government for poor resource allocation. The government is getting tired here, having been in power for several years, if they choose not to have a night race, it shows to me another example of their inability to get things done.

With the exception of dredging the bay, and paying heaps of consultants, what have they actually done?? Kennett achieved heaps whilst in - not real popular always, but when people are getting things done that's always the case.

Bye Bye GP

updated story - Melbourne wants F1 GP to stay: Walker

The current SA government wouldn't have a hope in hell of negotiating the race to move to Adelaide. I remember several years ago Rann went over to see Bernie in London to test the waters and got chewed up and spat out in apparently about 5 minutes. He was still red faced when he got back to Adelaide. Imagine fresh faced fluffy little lamb vs battle scarred, half starved hyena.

As a melbournian, I'd love to see it stay here and evolve but if Bernie wants to be an arsehole, then he can take it. As much as I'd love to see a night race here, I don't think it will ever happen. Alot of obstacles to get over before it even remotely becomes a possibility.

One place I'd love to see it go is Surfers Paradise. Particularly in its heydey, IndyCars on the Gold Coast is an absolute blast and the party atmosphere while its on is something that Melbourne just can't replicate. What would be better than having the biggest racing series in the world there? I'm not sure whether its possible or not but I'd certainly be attending every year whereas with the GP in Melbourne now, I've sort of lost interest. Been for many years but it seems to be lacking something these days. :

Originally posted by former champ
As a melbournian, I'd love to see it stay here and evolve but if Bernie wants to be an arsehole, then he can take it. As much as I'd love to see a night race here, I don't think it will ever happen. Alot of obstacles to get over before it even remotely becomes a possibility.

One place I'd love to see it go is Surfers Paradise. Particularly in its heydey, IndyCars on the Gold Coast is an absolute blast and the party atmosphere while its on is something that Melbourne just can't replicate. What would be better than having the biggest racing series in the world there? I'm not sure whether its possible or not but I'd certainly be attending every year whereas with the GP in Melbourne now, I've sort of lost interest. Been for many years but it seems to be lacking something these days. :

For sure they could put it on. But would they pay the price?

I like street circuits. I'd love to see Sydney do it, and have the cars blast over the Harbour Bridge, and then come back using their amazing tunnels! What a blast that would be! Not much overtaking under ground, but that would suit modern F1 perfectly. And who knows after the hybrid power boost over the bridge, there might be a braking spot where overtaking could even maybe happen.

Still street circuits are scary and dangerous, afterall despite the drivers mostly loving Monaco, they are too dangerous elsewhere. Which is something I don't understand. Imagine a night race in Sydney, and they could do the fireworks during the race!

Originally posted by Melbourne Park
For sure they could put it on. But would they pay the price?

I like street circuits. I'd love to see Sydney do it, and have the cars blast over the Harbour Bridge, and then come back using their amazing tunnels! What a blast that would be! Not much overtaking under ground, but that would suit modern F1 perfectly. And who knows after the hybrid power boost over the bridge, there might be a braking spot where overtaking could even maybe happen.

Still street circuits are scary and dangerous, afterall despite the drivers mostly loving Monaco, they are too dangerous elsewhere. Which is something I don't understand. Imagine a night race in Sydney, and they could do the fireworks during the race!

I guess that's the one issue, the pricing. I really have no idea if they would pay it, I'm guessing at this stage that would be a no but that's purely a guess. I'm pretty confident that it would be huge though, for one you would get alot of people going there purely on the basis that it would be a huge party carnival, like what the Clipsal 500 is in Adelaide or the IndyCars at Surfers. That would almost guarantee great ticket sales and its something that the F1 race here suffers from. I've seen they have made a few changes this year to try and attract the younger, vibrant type and it may boost sales in the short term. The fact is though the F1 race here just does not have the same vibe and never will. That alone will mean they won't generate the ticket sales they really wish for.

As for the rest of your post Melbourne Park, I love street circuits, I will be doing the Monaco Grand Prix sometime very soon and any street circuits are definetly welcome from me. That idea regarding Sydney is a fascinating one.

Originally posted by former champ
As for the rest of your post Melbourne Park, I love street circuits, I will be doing the Monaco Grand Prix sometime very soon and any street circuits are definetly welcome from me. That idea regarding Sydney is a fascinating one.

Unrealistic though, because the New South Wales Government is broke. They are driving people out of the State because of they are restricting new development land.