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Rally of the 1000 lakes.

Started by Fatgadget , Jul 30 2008 19:28

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51 replies to this topic

#1 Fatgadget

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 19:28

I believe this is the only rally Seb Loeb hasn't as yet won in his illustrious career ? Given that he won Rally GB last year after umpteen attempts, this surely is his year in Finland or have I just put the bok on him :lol:

I so love those committed flat-out jumps into a blind crest in Finland. :love:

#2 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 19:38

Suzuki Impreza jump

#3 Fatgadget

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 19:47

That I am afraid is contrived. So artificial. I am talking about real jumps. Jumps like the one Markus did a couple of years ago and his co-driver was winded to the extent he had to drive without pace notes until the following stage.! :up:

.......co-drivers are a mandatory sack of spuds anyway!

#4 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 19:54

I know, it's a built jump, but it is a rally car. :up:

#5 Atreiu

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 20:33

I really hope Loeb wins against Fords tactics.
5 wins out of 8 rallies and still not the leader, the F1 point system definitely does not work for WRC.

#6 Makarias

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 20:48

Points system discussions are just tiresome...
The old points system they used all the way until 1996:
http://en.wikipedia....pionship_season
was in terms of points proportions almost identical with the current one. Where do we have a thread for bemoaning the uselessness of the WRC outcomes for 1979-1996?

#7 Atreiu

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 21:06

We don't, I was simply pointing something out.

#8 sterling49

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 21:15

Originally posted by Fatgadget
That I am afraid is contrived. So artificial. I am talking about real jumps. Jumps like the one Markus did a couple of years ago and his co-driver was winded to the extent he had to drive without pace notes until the following stage.!

Look at this film of 1973, I remember reading about it, Mikkola's co driver broke his back when landing!!! Look at around 7.36s, another incredibly high flyer was Jussi Kynsilehto driving a works Escort RS1600 in '73/'74, I can't remember if he finished the event though........

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

#9 Fatgadget

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 21:29

Originally posted by whitewaterMkII
I know, it's a built jump, but it is a rally car.

Sorry but I don't think that sort of contrived thing is exclusive to a rally car. I remember watching Antero Laine in an RS Escort it was way back early 80s absolutely committed..a blind jump and then an Escort sized bridge . :eek:

He got it slightly wrong and his Escort was left firmly lodged across the bridge parapets with seemingly minimal damage

Anyhoo kindly excuse the rose-tinted reminisces.I am looking forward to a ding dong between Seb, the Fords and Petter!

#10 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 21:33

Originally posted by whitewaterMkII
Suzuki Impreza jump

where is the suzuki part?

#11 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 21:43

Originally posted by MikeTekRacing

where is the suzuki part?

My bad...
Typing at work and not concentrating on either

#12 J

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 19:07

Not much confindece in Hirvonen handling the pressure of being the pre-rally favourite. Latvala is under instructions to make it to the day three, and looked very nervous on the stage 1.

This might be Loebs year..

-J

#13 Fatgadget

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 20:59

Title of thread was a bit tongue stuck firmly in cheek.after a few sherbets :blush:

Maybe the mods can merge this with the current one J initiated.... Cheers.

#14 Fatgadget

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 21:19

Originally posted by sterling49

Look at this film of 1973, I remember reading about it, Mikkola's co driver broke his back when landing!!! Look at around 7.36s, another incredibly high flyer was Jussi Kynsilehto driving a works Escort RS1600 in '73/'74, I can't remember if he finished the event though........

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Awesome. Made the hairs on the back of neck tingle..Seriously. :love:

#15 sterling49

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 21:38

Originally posted by Fatgadget

Awesome. Made the hairs on the back of neck tingle..Seriously.

I still have not been to this rally, I must make the pilgrimage one summer..... :up:

#16 J

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Posted 01 August 2008 - 07:34

Latvala out, and Loeb leads.

-J

#17 Fatgadget

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Posted 01 August 2008 - 16:44

After SS6

1. Sebastien Loeb Citroen 43:07.1
2. Mikko Hirvonen Ford +9.1
3. Dani Sordo Cirtoen +32.2
4. Gigi Galli Ford +36.5
5. Henning Solberg Ford +42.0
6. Urmo Aava Citroen +44.8
7. Andres Mikkelsen Ford +50.7
8. Petter Solberg Subaru +56.5
9. Chris Atkinson Subaru +1:11.5
10. Toni Gardemeister Suzuki +1:37.5

I have a good feeling about Loeb on this rally. :up:

Should that be the case that will make him the second non Nordic driver to have a look at the winners rostrum-yes?

#18 J

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Posted 01 August 2008 - 20:55

14.4 seconds now. I will be very suprised if Loeb doesn´t win.

-J

#19 DoubleWDC

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Posted 01 August 2008 - 22:14

The level of talent in rally at present is hopeless. Journeymen driver like Latvala & Hirvonen would never have gotten factory drives 10-20 years ago. Now only Loeb and perhaps Solberg are good. This rally will be easily won by Loeb. I predict Hirvonen will give up or crash.

#20 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 00:34

Originally posted by DoubleWDC
The level of talent in rally at present is hopeless. Journeymen driver like Latvala & Hirvonen would never have gotten factory drives 10-20 years ago. Now only Loeb and perhaps Solberg are good. This rally will be easily won by Loeb. I predict Hirvonen will give up or crash.

Latvala won in Sweden on merit. But yes Hirvonen is more Gardemeister than Makkinen.

The previous Subaru lacked downforce and power, so the new model should be much more competitive.

Why shouldn't Loeb win when driving the most powerful rally car with the best suspension, most optimal weight distribution and highest level of downforce with best aerodynamic efficiency? Ford scrimp and save to make a car on a shoestring that would be 80-85% as optimal as the C4 and the free spending French team.

#21 Atreiu

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 00:39

Loeb certainly deserves a dog of a car and Citroen don't deserve someone of his caliber. It's just all wrong...

#22 J

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 15:42

Latvala is not ready yet, but at least he has the speed. Hirvonen has been a disappointed. IMHO Not fast enough to be team leader, not consistent enough to be a safe number two.

-J

#23 Pikku Pakkanen

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 16:48

Loeb was caught speeding last Wednesday in Keuruu. 101 km/h when the limit was 60 km/h.

He was given special permission to drive in the Rally Finland, but he will lose his driving license temporarily starting Monday. That should mean he will miss at least the next two rallies.

Somehow I don't believe he will miss any rallies because of this.

#24 DoubleWDC

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 17:13

Originally posted by Pikku Pakkanen
Loeb was caught speeding last Wednesday in Keuruu. 101 km/h when the limit was 60 km/h.

He was given special permission to drive in the Rally Finland, but he will lose his driving license temporarily starting Monday. That should mean he will miss at least the next two rallies.

Somehow I don't believe he will miss any rallies because of this.

Loeb should pay for his reckless driving on public roads. :mad:

Since it was 60km/h road it means it was a small road and doing over 100 is really bad.

#25 jokuvaan

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 17:21

In Finland, 60km/h limit could be on a very long and normal wide road, with very few or no intersections and 15meter visibility on both sides of the road.

Only thing 60km/h really usually tells is that you are in a city or village near-by area.

#26 J

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 17:25

Originally posted by Pikku Pakkanen
Loeb was caught speeding last Wednesday in Keuruu. 101 km/h when the limit was 60 km/h.

He was given special permission to drive in the Rally Finland, but he will lose his driving license temporarily starting Monday. That should mean he will miss at least the next two rallies.

Somehow I don't believe he will miss any rallies because of this.

If this is true, it is very strange that he didn´t lose his licence on the spot, as the law says. It would be his second ticket on this rally too. I believe one competitor lost his licence for speeding during the practice, and was unable to take part in the rally.

-J

#27 J

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 17:28

Just got a confirmation for this. Three competitors have already lost their licences, and were unable to compete. One of them for excatly for the same offence as Loeb (41kmh over the limit).

-J

#28 DoubleWDC

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 17:42

Originally posted by J

If this is true, it is very strange that he didn´t lose his licence on the spot, as the law says.
-J

Indeed. You lose the license and are only allowed to move the car to where you were going so that it doesn't cause you extra trouble.

#29 DoubleWDC

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 17:46

Originally posted by jokuvaan
In Finland, 60km/h limit could be on a very long and normal wide road, with very few or no intersections and 15meter visibility on both sides of the road.

Only thing 60km/h really usually tells is that you are in a city or village near-by area.

Yes it could and on countryside which Keuruu is part of it could be a twisty road cutting through a village with very little visibility together with bends and hills.

#30 J

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 19:16

According to the MTV3 Loeb might be under investigation for service park irregularities. I really do hope that this rally won´t be decided by some silly things..

Basically the issue seems to be that Loeb got lost when trying to leave the fueling area and drove into a ditch. He needed outside assistance to get the car off from the ditch, and according to the rules that was a no no. The question seems to be was he still at the fueling area or had he already left it?

Here´s the video link: http://nettitv.mtv3....i?139365#139365

-J

#31 J

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 08:26

No penalty for Loeb. The car was deemed to have been in "an unsafe position" so any help was OK.

-J

#32 DoubleWDC

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 09:21

Unsurprisingly Loeb won.

#33 Atreiu

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 11:01

Great. There are very few things left for him to conquer in WRC and this was one of them. :up:

What is Gronholm doing in his retirement?

#34 Makarias

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 11:06

Grönholm tried some rallycross four weeks ago.
European championship race in Sweden, against the very elite of the world on their home ground.
And he won, of course.

#35 Makarias

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 11:08

The final (Swedish commentary)

#36 Panch

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 14:57

Final results:

1. Sebastien Loeb Citroen 2.54.05,5
2. Mikko Hirvonen Ford +9,0
3. Chris Atkinson Subaru +3.17,0
4. Daniel Sordo Citroen +3.30,9
5. Henning Solberg Ford +3.57,7
6. Petter Solberg Subaru +4.04,1
7. Matti Rantanen Ford +6.11,1
8. Toni Gardemeister Suzuki +8.18,7
9. Matthew Wilson Ford +8.37,3
10. Conrad Rautenbach Citroen +10.30,9

Points:

1. Mikko Hirvonen 67
2. Sebastien Loeb 66
3. Chris Atkinson 37
4. Daniel Sordo 35
5. Jari-Matti Latvala 34
6. Petter Solberg 23
7. Henning Solberg 20
8. Gigi Galli 17
9. Matthew Wilson 12
10. Federico Villagra 8

Few crashes from a rally:

http://www.mtv3.fi/u.../2008/08/682690

#37 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 15:16

Originally posted by Panch
Final results:

1. Sebastien Loeb Citroen 2.54.05,5
2. Mikko Hirvonen Ford +9,0
3. Chris Atkinson Subaru +3.17,0
4. Daniel Sordo Citroen +3.30,9
5. Henning Solberg Ford +3.57,7
6. Petter Solberg Subaru +4.04,1
7. Matti Rantanen Ford +6.11,1
8. Toni Gardemeister Suzuki +8.18,7
9. Matthew Wilson Ford +8.37,3
10. Conrad Rautenbach Citroen +10.30,9

Points:

1. Mikko Hirvonen 67
2. Sebastien Loeb 66
3. Chris Atkinson 37
4. Daniel Sordo 35
5. Jari-Matti Latvala 34
6. Petter Solberg 23
7. Henning Solberg 20
8. Gigi Galli 17
9. Matthew Wilson 12
10. Federico Villagra 8

Few crashes from a rally:

http://www.mtv3.fi/u.../2008/08/682690

points system is truly a joke for Hirvonen to be leading Loeb.

#38 J

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 17:37

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever

points system is truly a joke for Hirvonen to be leading Loeb.

We knew that, just like we knew that the running order FIAsco would be back, but FIA seems to know better..

-J

#39 Fatgadget

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 17:44

A big up to Loeb for finally getting this one :up:

Makes him the 2nd non Nordic driver after Carlos Sainz to back this rally.Magic.
Couple of wry observations ; Chris Atkinson! WoW :eek:

..Move over Petter.This Queensland banana is now top dog at Subaru. Daniel Sordo..WTF? :mad:

He is dog slow.Someone put young Rautenbach in that works C4.

And dont get me started on the point scoring system and why Ford didn't perform the same shenanigans they did in Turkey. :cat:

#40 santori

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 18:11

Solberg really has gone off the boil. Such a shame that he's been stuck in those cars. And a shame for Atkinson, because the new Subaru doesn't seem any more promising than its predecessor - a privateer Citroen or Ford might be better at this point.
The problem in the WRC isn't a lack of driving talent but a lack of cars. Although if the lack of cars continues, there'll be a lack of driving talent, too.

About team budgets, here's a collection of quotes from someone who knows more than most: Forums:Rallye-info

#41 santori

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 18:18

Originally posted by Fatgadget
A big up to Loeb for finally getting this one Makes him the 2nd non Nordic driver after Carlos Sainz to back this rally.Magic.

And Didier Auriol! And Markko Martin if you count him as non-Nordic.

#42 Fatgadget

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 18:29

^^ Ooops! Kindly excuse the brain fart. Didier completely escaped my mind! :blush:

As for Marko, well geographically he is from the same neck of the woods as Finns, Swedes and Norwegians. That is my excuse and i am sticking to it!

#43 Pikku Pakkanen

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 09:29

Loeb was given a 7 week driving ban. He has a Swiss driving license, so it is now for the Swiss police to decide whether he can drive in the next two rallies.

Perhaps he can drive the stages while Daniel Elena drives on the public roads between stages.

#44 Fatgadget

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 13:38

Originally posted by Pikku Pakkanen
Loeb was given a 7 week driving ban. He has a Swiss driving license, so it is now for the Swiss police to decide whether he can drive in the next two rallies.

Perhaps he can drive the stages while Daniel Elena drives on the public roads between stages.

Years ago I remember a story about Hannu Mikkola being banned from driving in one country (cant remember which one) yet being able to in another. Quite how that worked I dunno. Maybe something to do with the pre-EU unified laws we have these days?

#45 TT6

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 08:09

Now the main shock is the fact that Loeb was allowed to drive in Finland after his speeding that happened well before the race.

You see, regularily if you're caught with such a severe speeding in Finland your driving license is confiscated instantly. Somehow Loeb escaped that and I think there will be some serious investigating over the matter among the police. One could well be asking why there was a delay of several days.

Funny thing is that some other not that well known rally drivers did indeed get what they deserved in the same event - right away. They couldn't race along.

#46 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 09:02

Originally posted by TT6
Now the main shock is the fact that Loeb was allowed to drive in Finland after his speeding that happened well before the race.

You see, regularily if you're caught with such a severe speeding in Finland your driving license is confiscated instantly. Somehow Loeb escaped that and I think there will be some serious investigating over the matter among the police. One could well be asking why there was a delay of several days.

Funny thing is that some other not that well known rally drivers did indeed get what they deserved in the same event - right away. They couldn't race along.

Were the guys who didn't race by any chance Finns?

#47 Pikku Pakkanen

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 09:54

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever

Were the guys who didn't race by any chance Finns?

No. They were Gabor Meyr, Andrea Cortinovis and Vytautas Baranauskas. Hungarian, Italian and Lithuanian. They lost their licenses straight away, but Loeb didn't. It's now a small scale scandal in Finland.

It must be said though, that the police can use common sense on the spot. Perhaps Loeb's driving just wasn't as dangerous. Maybe it was a big empty road with a short 60 km/h limit that he didn't notice.

#48 kismet

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 10:16

I remember reading some news item or other where someone or other explained that Loeb didn't lose his license on the spot because he was doing less than 50 km/h over the limit.

#49 TT6

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 12:29

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever
Were the guys who didn't race by any chance Finns?

They weren't but that wouldn't matter. Same legal rules and procedures apply to foreigners as well as finns.

Maybe the Loeb drivin just 41 km/h too much wasn't severe enough, that may explain the decision. It's pretty much thou and I don't think there exists such a "50 over limit and you're out, otherwise you're not" -rule. Sorry I can't check it out, I don't have Police officers hand book on traffic offences at hand right now...

#50 DoubleWDC

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 12:36

Originally posted by kismet
I remember reading some news item or other where someone or other explained that Loeb didn't lose his license on the spot because he was doing less than 50 km/h over the limit.

That's strange explanation. From personal experience I know that is not true or police have different rules for different people.

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Rally of the 1000 lakes.

#1 Fatgadget

#2 whitewaterMkII

#3 Fatgadget

#4 whitewaterMkII

#5 Atreiu

#6 Makarias

#7 Atreiu

#8 sterling49

#9 Fatgadget

#10 MikeTekRacing

#11 whitewaterMkII

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#13 Fatgadget

#14 Fatgadget

#15 sterling49

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#17 Fatgadget

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#22 J

#23 Pikku Pakkanen

#24 DoubleWDC

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#32 DoubleWDC

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