I am Trying to Find any Information regarding my uncle
Back in 1962-64 he raced under the name Franz Muller
His real name was Roman Dirschl his mother my grand mother had forbid
My uncle from racing so he used Franz Muller so she would not find out
The mystery is I think it was round 1964 in Oct I was 11 years then I was told that my
Uncle was killed when he blew a front tire and hit a tree
It was not till last night that three seems to be a mystery here
I talked to my mom and she insist this is what happen but it would not be the first time she lied to me. last night I was on the
Lola web site and found documentation showing Franz Muller bought one of 12 Lolas MK5A that were built in 63 s it showed his names and also as Roman Dirschl and gave the chassis # as BRJ61 then I went to the Lola chassis register and it show NOW a Lola MK5A Chassis BRJ 61 as Now owned my a John Pete Ball and the car is in the usa in running shape and This is my Mystery I was told then and now that the car had exploded in to a fire ball so how can this car still be around If this is the case then what did happened My other uncle many years ago told me that It was in my best interest NOT to know what happen and his last words were what it seams is not as it was I did not understand this till last night when I found that the car is still around
Sadly he past some years ago and took his secret to the grave and my mom will not tell me
I would love to hear form any one that knew my uncle and what is the big mystery that happen in 1964 I really need to know the truth
Norm Reynolds
e-mail ( n.Reynolds@verizon.net)
Franz Muller aka Roman Dirschl
Started by
Stingray66
, Nov 02 2008 17:37
40 replies to this topic
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#2
David McKinney
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Posted 02 November 2008 - 17:49
My records show that Roman Dirschl/Franz Muller raced BRJ61 in 1963, but that someone else raced it in 1964
If D/M's accident was in 1964, it was presumably not in the Lola 5A
If D/M's accident was in 1964, it was presumably not in the Lola 5A
#3
fines
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Posted 02 November 2008 - 18:10
The Lola was a Formula Junior, Dirschl raced an F3 Lotus in '64.
#4
Stingray66
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Posted 02 November 2008 - 18:14
Thanks The problem I am Not to sure of the year he was killed AI all was thought it was 63 and by what you are saying then it must of been 63 I was only 11 years old then and today my mom WILLL not talk about so I am guesssing it was 64 so most likly from what you are saying it was 63 but I do know for years that somthing is just not right I know it was a Lola and on the Loal web site it on;ly shows BRJ-61 as the car he had Thank you for the replly after alll these years I need to know the truth
Norm
Norm
#5
Stingray66
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Posted 02 November 2008 - 18:18
Hi Machael and thanks for the infomation this is something I did not know of the lotus by the way did you know him Thanks Norm
#6
fines
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Posted 02 November 2008 - 18:24
To be clear: the accident happened in the autumn of 1964, there's absolutely no doubt, and I just picked out an old magazine of the day and it specifically mentions that he was driving a Lotus! I'll translate: "After setting a new lap record, he left the perfectly straight road - probably because of a front tyre blow-out - and impacted a tree side-on at full speed. He died instantly." Nothing that would suggest any mystery, I'm sorry!
P.S. I didn't know him, I was born in 1967!;)
P.S. I didn't know him, I was born in 1967!;)
#7
Stingray66
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Posted 02 November 2008 - 18:57
THank 's Michale This DOES answer a lot you do not know how much this means to me by the way what was the magazine was it in maybe I can find one Oh by the way does it say were this happen the faimly did not know about the Lotus my mom and every knew about the LoLa but the lotus is something we did not know about
Michale thank you with this NEW information it really helps Thanks Norm
Michale thank you with this NEW information it really helps Thanks Norm
#8
sat
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Posted 02 November 2008 - 19:01
Fatal accident was on 27.9.1964 in Portoroz (YU), car was Lotus 31-Ford
#9
Stingray66
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Posted 02 November 2008 - 19:09
Many many Thanks Norm
#10
eukie
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Posted 03 November 2008 - 15:22
Here's the sad news from german magazine "auto, motor und sport" 21/1964, October 17:
#11
r.atlos
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Posted 03 November 2008 - 23:30
To my knowledge, there has only been one Lola Mk5 in Germany. Roman's car disappeared after the 1963 season and the only Mk5 that re-surfaced in 1964 has been the car of US-Captain Thomas Bunn, living and working at the Spangdahlem airbase at the time.
Bunn used to race it with a Mantzel-tuned DKW engine and offered it for sale in October 1964 when returning to the US. I definately know that one of his two engines went into a sports car project at the end of 1964.
As we did not see any Mk5 during 1965 in Germany I suppose that Bunn has in the end decided to take the car with him. This might be the link to that Mk5 with Roman's chassis number currently in the US.
Bunn used to race it with a Mantzel-tuned DKW engine and offered it for sale in October 1964 when returning to the US. I definately know that one of his two engines went into a sports car project at the end of 1964.
As we did not see any Mk5 during 1965 in Germany I suppose that Bunn has in the end decided to take the car with him. This might be the link to that Mk5 with Roman's chassis number currently in the US.
#12
Stingray66
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Posted 04 November 2008 - 03:02
HI Thanks for all of the good information In all these years after his crash we all thought he was driving the LoLa Must have been the best secret NO family members Knows nothing of the lotus 34 I know it is showing he had a Lotus 31 but I found out it was the more powerful 34 The sad part is the Yugoslavia govrnenment Told my mom ( his sister) back in 64 that They thought that some one had shot out the tires and that this was no accident Well after leaning about the Lotus I check on the web site and found that the Lotus 34
came with Dunlop tires and it said that the type 34 was to powerful for the Dunlops and when you would hammer it the tires would shred so it is my belief that there was no bullet it was just faulty tires that had been the cause of this accident This has put my mom at ease some what after all these years
Now we are trying to find more info on the LoLa it would seem that my uncle still owned the car at the time of his crash so we would like to find a history on what happen to this car I did find out that this year at the Sonoma California wine country classic a LoLa MK5a chassis # BRJ 61 came it sixth on that race so it still running It shows the owner as Pete Ball out of Dallas Tx in the us we would just like to find out the history on this car IT was in Regenburg Germany so how did it end in the usa and who sold it as no one at this time in my family knows nothing about the LoLa We are all shocked that this car is still around
Also I want to thank every one here for all your help it has helped more than you know
Norm Reynolds
n.reynolds@verizon.net
came with Dunlop tires and it said that the type 34 was to powerful for the Dunlops and when you would hammer it the tires would shred so it is my belief that there was no bullet it was just faulty tires that had been the cause of this accident This has put my mom at ease some what after all these years
Now we are trying to find more info on the LoLa it would seem that my uncle still owned the car at the time of his crash so we would like to find a history on what happen to this car I did find out that this year at the Sonoma California wine country classic a LoLa MK5a chassis # BRJ 61 came it sixth on that race so it still running It shows the owner as Pete Ball out of Dallas Tx in the us we would just like to find out the history on this car IT was in Regenburg Germany so how did it end in the usa and who sold it as no one at this time in my family knows nothing about the LoLa We are all shocked that this car is still around
Also I want to thank every one here for all your help it has helped more than you know
Norm Reynolds
n.reynolds@verizon.net
#13
RAP
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Posted 04 November 2008 - 08:16
It was NOT a Lotus 34, which was the Indianapolis car, but a 31, the Formula 3 car. As regards the history of the Lola I suggest you email Duncan Rabagliati at the Formula Junior Historic Racing Association formulajunior@blueyonder.co.uk who may be able to help.
#14
David McKinney
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Posted 04 November 2008 - 09:21
I have Dieter Mantzel's name alongside BRJ61 in 1964
#15
r.atlos
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Posted 04 November 2008 - 10:43
There has been, indeed, some confusion around the Lotus type number. I think to remember that it had been called a "34" in some German magazines and that's probably how the confusion has crept in. Nevertheless, it has clearly been a "31".
As to the Lola Mk.5: Wolf-Dieter Mantzel has raced a Mk5-DKW in one race only, if I recall it correctly - and Thomas Bunn was not there that day. Thus, it might well be the same car. May be ordered by Mantzel for tax reasons and "loaned" to Thomas Bunn ?
As to the Lola Mk.5: Wolf-Dieter Mantzel has raced a Mk5-DKW in one race only, if I recall it correctly - and Thomas Bunn was not there that day. Thus, it might well be the same car. May be ordered by Mantzel for tax reasons and "loaned" to Thomas Bunn ?
#16
David McKinney
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Posted 04 November 2008 - 14:05
I don't have Mantzel doing any race in a Mk5, but do have him in a Mk5A (they were different modelsOriginally posted by r.atlos
As to the Lola Mk.5: Wolf-Dieter Mantzel has raced a Mk5-DKW in one race only, if I recall it correctly - and Thomas Bunn was not there that day. Thus, it might well be the same car. May be ordered by Mantzel for tax reasons and "loaned" to Thomas Bunn ?
)It could have been the way you suggested, or Bunn could have lent his car to Mantzel in return for services rendered. Or they could be different cars
#17
Stingray66
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Posted 04 November 2008 - 15:05
ok now I am really confused it was when I WAS ON THE LOTUS WEB SITE AND IT SHOWS THAT FRANZ MULLER ON HAVEING A 34 lotus GUESS IT COULD BE A TYPO now
the question about the tires
there are is No saffety report about the 31 haveing tires problem as the 34 so now I am back to where I started from I still need to belive that it all happen bacuse fauty tires and not a bullet and why does Lottus registy show him haveing a 34 to it made sense reading a reort about the 34 having problems with tires that could not stsand up to the power of the 34s power last night I read a report that Jim clark in 64 ran a Lotus 34 in the Indianapolis came out of turn four
and hammer it he said the he saw the tries just came apart and he ended up kisssing the wall
I really need to know in my heart that this was the case
there is no report the the 31 was
hving problems with tries I liked the LoLa web site some one took the time and scaned all the original douments so I could see that Franz Muller bought a mk5a LoLa how mush he paid for it and the chassis number of BRJ 61
ON the Lotus only show that it was 34 Lotus
so now mystery countinues
PS I just e-mailed email Duncan Rabagliati in hope to findd out more out
Thanks for all your help
Norm
the question about the tires
there are is No saffety report about the 31 haveing tires problem as the 34 so now I am back to where I started from I still need to belive that it all happen bacuse fauty tires and not a bullet and why does Lottus registy show him haveing a 34 to it made sense reading a reort about the 34 having problems with tires that could not stsand up to the power of the 34s power last night I read a report that Jim clark in 64 ran a Lotus 34 in the Indianapolis came out of turn four
and hammer it he said the he saw the tries just came apart and he ended up kisssing the wall
I really need to know in my heart that this was the case
there is no report the the 31 was
hving problems with tries I liked the LoLa web site some one took the time and scaned all the original douments so I could see that Franz Muller bought a mk5a LoLa how mush he paid for it and the chassis number of BRJ 61
ON the Lotus only show that it was 34 Lotus
so now mystery countinues
PS I just e-mailed email Duncan Rabagliati in hope to findd out more out
Thanks for all your help
Norm
#18
fines
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Posted 04 November 2008 - 17:28
Forget the Lotus 34, Dirschl never drove such a car, that's a completely different league!
As for the tyres, don't forget we're talking 1964 here, he may have driven several races or even a complete season on one set of tyres, and by year's end they may well have been knackered. We don't need a bullet to explain the blow-out! A ridiculous story, if you ask me.
As for the tyres, don't forget we're talking 1964 here, he may have driven several races or even a complete season on one set of tyres, and by year's end they may well have been knackered. We don't need a bullet to explain the blow-out! A ridiculous story, if you ask me.
#19
Stingray66
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Posted 04 November 2008 - 21:13
bullet to explain the blow-out! A ridiculous story, if you ask me.
Yes I would thnk so but this is what the yugslavia govenment told my mom witch made it seem much worse
My question has allway been did they find or have a bullit the ansewer was NO but for my mom it has all way real hard why would some one want him dead to this day I do not know where they came up with this
I have been an atuo mechainc all my life so trust be I know what you are saying about the tires
tiers back in 64 were nothing like we have today
for me I am at rest that the tires on his car were ethere Faulty warn out or there was something on the track and he ran over it and the tire blew
I know the type 31 ran a Cosworth - Ford 109E engine the car of the crash as I have been told had a It had a 425bhp Ford quad cam DOHC V8 engine. This is were I got the 34 form
Turst me I am not trying to start any thing here I DID NOT SEE THE Car (to young at the time)This what people that did are telling who know maybe the engines were switched IT been 40 years so I think we will never know for sure
I am just having a hard time geting the bullet thing out of moms head for the life of me I do not know were they came up with this
and Thanks for all the help I am getting here
Norm Reynolds
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#20
David McKinney
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Posted 04 November 2008 - 23:36
Someone (not me) should be able to provide evidence of where the Lotus 34s were in 1964 - I'm sure there wouldn't have been any in Yugoslavia - if only because there was no formula for them to race to
#21
Stingray66
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Posted 05 November 2008 - 04:34
OK I just got a conformation that in 1964 Franz Muller had a lotus 34 NOT a 31 also Lotus has also confimed that on thier recourds it show Franz muller in a lotus 34 and not a 31
also I found this race in XXVII Internationales ADAC-Eifelrennen 1964
Nürburgring Südschleife, Adenau, Germany that also show it as a 34 lotus
Formula 3
12 laps x 7747 m = 92.964 km Pole Position: --- Fastest lap: Jean-Claude Franck, 3'22.7"
Pos Cla. # Driver, Nationality Entrant Car - Engine Time, Laps Reason Out
1 1 21 Jean-Claude Franck, B Paul Swaelens Cooper T72 - BMC 41'25.0"
2 2 23 John Ampt, AUS Team Alexis Alexis Mk 5 - Ford 41'28.9"
3 3 60 Jonathan Williams, GB Anglo-Swiss Racing Team Lotus 31 - Ford 42'01.8"
4 4 48 Josef Hecht, D Josef Hecht Lola Mk 3 - Ford 43'45.6"
5 5 64 Alain Jamar, B Belgian Racing Team Cooper T65 - Ford 44'23.5"
6 6 34 John Harwood, GB Arthur Mallock U2-3 - Ford
7 7 50 Otto Lux, D Otto Lux Lotus 18 - Ford
8 8 53 Rolf Scheel, Rolf Scheel Cooper T59 - DKW
9 9 65 Theo Harzheim, D Theo Harzheim Cooper - Ford
10 10 61 Piers Courage, GB Anglo-Swiss Racing Team Lotus 31 - Ford
11 11 35 Georges Ansermoz, CH Ecurie Leman Lotus 22 - Ford
12 DNF 20 Jacques Bernusset, B Paul Swaelens Cooper T72 - BMC
13 DNF 30 Chuck Jones Chuck Jones Lola - Ford
14 DNF 31 Willy Vroomen, B Willy Vroomen Lova - DKW
15 DNF 40 Vincenzo d'Arrigo Starke Racing Team Cooper T52 - DKW
16 DNF 41 Albert Achinger Albert Achinger Lotus 20 - Ford
17 DNF 43 Roland Binder, D Roland Binder Lotus 27 - Ford
18 DNF 44 Kurt Demen Kurt Demen Lotus 18 - Ford
19 DNF 49 Dieter Lanzerath, D Dieter Lanzerath Lotus 20 - Ford
20 DNF 51 "Franz Müller" (Roman Dirschl), D "Franz Müller" Lotus 34 - Ford
21 DNF 52 Dieter Noisternig Dieter Noisternig Elva -
22 DNF 54 Josef Schnitzer, D Josef Schnitzer Lola - Ford
23 DNF 55 Ernst Schubert Ernst Schubert Black Widow -
24 DNF 63 Paul Deetens, B Belgian Racing Team Cooper T72 - Ford
25 DNA 24 George Smith, USA Team Alexis Alexis - Ford
26 DNA 25 Gabriel Aumont, F Automobiles Gabriel Aumont Aumont - Panhard
27 DNA 26 Jean Muller, F Automobiles Gabriel Aumont Aumont - Panhard
28 DNA 27 --- Automobiles Gabriel Aumont Aumont - Panhard
29 DNA 28 Fritz Heini, CH Formel Rennsport Club Cooper T65 - Ford
30 DNA 29 Peter Revson, USA Revson Racing Cooper T72 (T67 ?) - BMC
31 DNA 32 Jens-Christian Legarth, DK Jens-Christian Legarth Lotus 22 - Ford
32 DNA 33 David Coode, GB David Coode Penny - Ford
33 DNA 36 Harald Limberger, D Renngemeinschaft Berlin Cooper - Ford
34 DNA 37 Joachim Münchow, D Renngemeinschaft Berlin Cooper T52 - Ford
35 DNA 38 Günter Schramm, D Renngemeinschaft Berlin Cooper T59 - Ford
36 DNA 39 Rudolf Thurner, D Isar Racing Team Cooper-Mitter - DKW
37 DNA 42 Peter Biberger Peter Biberger Eigenbau - DKW
38 DNA 45 Claus Dörmer, D Claus Dörmer Melkus - Wartburg
39 DNA 46 Peter Garske Peter Garske Eigenbau - DKW
40 DNA 47 Wolfgang Gras Wolfgang Gras Lola
41 DNA 56 Walter Treser Walter Treser Lotus-Mitter - DKW
42 DNA 57 Richard Weber, D Isar Racing Team Lotus 18 - DKW
43 DNA 58 Eddie Fletcher, GB Overland Executive London Brabham BT2 - BMC
44 DNA 59 Georges Rossetti, CH Georges Rossetti Lotus 20 - Ford
45 DNA 62 John Peterson, USA Peterson Racing Organisation Brabham BT6 - Ford
Formula 2 Index
Formula 2 1964 Index
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also I found this race in XXVII Internationales ADAC-Eifelrennen 1964
Nürburgring Südschleife, Adenau, Germany that also show it as a 34 lotus
Formula 3
12 laps x 7747 m = 92.964 km Pole Position: --- Fastest lap: Jean-Claude Franck, 3'22.7"
Pos Cla. # Driver, Nationality Entrant Car - Engine Time, Laps Reason Out
1 1 21 Jean-Claude Franck, B Paul Swaelens Cooper T72 - BMC 41'25.0"
2 2 23 John Ampt, AUS Team Alexis Alexis Mk 5 - Ford 41'28.9"
3 3 60 Jonathan Williams, GB Anglo-Swiss Racing Team Lotus 31 - Ford 42'01.8"
4 4 48 Josef Hecht, D Josef Hecht Lola Mk 3 - Ford 43'45.6"
5 5 64 Alain Jamar, B Belgian Racing Team Cooper T65 - Ford 44'23.5"
6 6 34 John Harwood, GB Arthur Mallock U2-3 - Ford
7 7 50 Otto Lux, D Otto Lux Lotus 18 - Ford
8 8 53 Rolf Scheel, Rolf Scheel Cooper T59 - DKW
9 9 65 Theo Harzheim, D Theo Harzheim Cooper - Ford
10 10 61 Piers Courage, GB Anglo-Swiss Racing Team Lotus 31 - Ford
11 11 35 Georges Ansermoz, CH Ecurie Leman Lotus 22 - Ford
12 DNF 20 Jacques Bernusset, B Paul Swaelens Cooper T72 - BMC
13 DNF 30 Chuck Jones Chuck Jones Lola - Ford
14 DNF 31 Willy Vroomen, B Willy Vroomen Lova - DKW
15 DNF 40 Vincenzo d'Arrigo Starke Racing Team Cooper T52 - DKW
16 DNF 41 Albert Achinger Albert Achinger Lotus 20 - Ford
17 DNF 43 Roland Binder, D Roland Binder Lotus 27 - Ford
18 DNF 44 Kurt Demen Kurt Demen Lotus 18 - Ford
19 DNF 49 Dieter Lanzerath, D Dieter Lanzerath Lotus 20 - Ford
20 DNF 51 "Franz Müller" (Roman Dirschl), D "Franz Müller" Lotus 34 - Ford
21 DNF 52 Dieter Noisternig Dieter Noisternig Elva -
22 DNF 54 Josef Schnitzer, D Josef Schnitzer Lola - Ford
23 DNF 55 Ernst Schubert Ernst Schubert Black Widow -
24 DNF 63 Paul Deetens, B Belgian Racing Team Cooper T72 - Ford
25 DNA 24 George Smith, USA Team Alexis Alexis - Ford
26 DNA 25 Gabriel Aumont, F Automobiles Gabriel Aumont Aumont - Panhard
27 DNA 26 Jean Muller, F Automobiles Gabriel Aumont Aumont - Panhard
28 DNA 27 --- Automobiles Gabriel Aumont Aumont - Panhard
29 DNA 28 Fritz Heini, CH Formel Rennsport Club Cooper T65 - Ford
30 DNA 29 Peter Revson, USA Revson Racing Cooper T72 (T67 ?) - BMC
31 DNA 32 Jens-Christian Legarth, DK Jens-Christian Legarth Lotus 22 - Ford
32 DNA 33 David Coode, GB David Coode Penny - Ford
33 DNA 36 Harald Limberger, D Renngemeinschaft Berlin Cooper - Ford
34 DNA 37 Joachim Münchow, D Renngemeinschaft Berlin Cooper T52 - Ford
35 DNA 38 Günter Schramm, D Renngemeinschaft Berlin Cooper T59 - Ford
36 DNA 39 Rudolf Thurner, D Isar Racing Team Cooper-Mitter - DKW
37 DNA 42 Peter Biberger Peter Biberger Eigenbau - DKW
38 DNA 45 Claus Dörmer, D Claus Dörmer Melkus - Wartburg
39 DNA 46 Peter Garske Peter Garske Eigenbau - DKW
40 DNA 47 Wolfgang Gras Wolfgang Gras Lola
41 DNA 56 Walter Treser Walter Treser Lotus-Mitter - DKW
42 DNA 57 Richard Weber, D Isar Racing Team Lotus 18 - DKW
43 DNA 58 Eddie Fletcher, GB Overland Executive London Brabham BT2 - BMC
44 DNA 59 Georges Rossetti, CH Georges Rossetti Lotus 20 - Ford
45 DNA 62 John Peterson, USA Peterson Racing Organisation Brabham BT6 - Ford
Formula 2 Index
Formula 2 1964 Index
Previous Race
Next Race
#22
Stingray66
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Posted 05 November 2008 - 05:13
another race showing lotus 34 at
XXVII Internationales ADAC-Eifelrennen 1964
Nürburgring Südschleife, Adenau, Germany
April 26 12 laps x 7747 m = 92.964 km Pole Position: Fastest Lap: Jean-Claude Franck, 3'22.7"
Pos Cla. # Driver, Nationality Entrant Car - Engine Time, Laps Reason Out
1 1 21 Jean-Claude Franck, B Paul Swaelens Cooper T72 - BMC 41'25.0"
2 2 23 John Ampt, GB Team Alexis Alexis Mk 5 - Ford/Cosworth 41'28.9"
3 3 60 Jonathan Williams, GB Anglo-Swiss Racing Team Lotus 31 - Ford 42'01.8"
4 4 48 Josef Hecht, D Josef Hecht Lola Mk 3 - Ford 43'45.6"
5 5 64 Alain Jamar, B Belgian Racing Team Cooper T65 - Ford 44'23.5"
6 6 34 John Harwood, GB Arthur Mallock U2 Mk 3 - Ford
7 7 50 Otto Lux, D Otto Lux Lotus 18 - Ford
8 8 53 Rolf Scheel, D Rolf Scheel Cooper T59 - DKW
9 9 65 Theo Harzheim, D Theo Harzheim Cooper T56 - Ford
10 10 61 Piers Courage, GB Anglo-Swiss Racing Team Lotus 31 - Ford
11 11 35 Georges Ansermoz, CH Ecurie Lèman Lotus 22 - Ford
12 DNF 20 Jacques Bernusset, B Paul Swaelens Cooper T72 - BMC
13 DNF 30 Chuck Jones Chuck Jones Lola - Ford
14 DNF 31 Willy Vroomen, B Willy Vroomen Lova - DKW
15 DNF 40 Vincenzo d'Arrigo Starke Racing Team Cooper T52 - DKW
16 DNF 41 Albert Achinger, D Albert Achinger Lotus 20 - Ford
17 DNF 43 Roland Binder, D Roland Binder Lotus 27 - Ford
18 DNF 44 Kurt Demen, D Kurt Demen Lotus 18 - Ford
19 DNF 49 Dieter Lanzerath, D Dieter Lanzerath Lotus 20 - Ford
20 DNF 51 "Franz Müller" (Roman Dirschl), D "Franz Müller" Lotus 34 - Ford
21 DNF 52 Dieter Noisternig, D Dieter Noisternig Elva
22 DNF 54 Josef Schnitzer, D Josef Schnitzer Lola - Ford
23 DNF 55 Ernst Schubert, D Ernst Schubert Black Widow
24 DNF 63 Paul Deetens, B Belgian Racing Team Cooper T72 - Ford
25 DNA 24 George Smith, USA Team Alexis Alexis - Ford
26 DNA 25 Gabriel Aumont, F Automobiles Gabriel Aumont Aumont - Panhard
27 DNA 26 Jean-Pierre Muller, F Automobiles Gabriel Aumont Aumont - Panhard
28 DNA 27 --- Automobiles Gabriel Aumont Aumont - Panhard
29 DNA 28 Fritz Heini, CH Formel Rennsport Club Cooper T65 - Ford
30 DNA 29 Peter Revson, USA Revson Racing Cooper T72 (T67 ?) - BMC
31 DNA 32 Jens-Christian Legarth, DK Jens-Christian Legarth Lotus 22 - Ford
32 DNA 33 David Coode, GB David Coode Penny - Ford
33 DNA 36 Harald Limberger, D Renngemeinschaft Berlin Cooper - Ford
34 DNA 37 Joachim Münchow, D Renngemeinschaft Berlin Cooper T52 - Ford
35 DNA 38 Günter Schramm, D Renngemeinschaft Berlin Cooper T59 - Ford
36 DNA 39 Rudolf Thurner, D Isar Racing Team Cooper-Mitter - DKW
37 DNA 42 Peter Biberger, D Peter Biberger Eigenbau - DKW
38 DNA 45 Claus Dörmer, D Claus Dörmer Melkus - Wartburg
39 DNA 46 Peter Garske, D Peter Garske Eigenbau - DKW
40 DNA 47 Wolfgang Gras, D Wolfgang Gras Lola
41 DNA 56 Walter Treser, D Walter Treser Lotus - DKW/Mitter
42 DNA 57 Richard Weber, D Isar Racing Team Lotus 18 - DKW
43 DNA 58 Eddie Fletcher, GB Overland Executive London Brabham BT2 - BMC
44 DNA 59 Georges Rossetti, CH Georges Rossetti Lotus 20 - Ford
45 DNA 62 John Peterson, USA Peterson Racing Organization Brabham BT6 - Ford
XXVII Internationales ADAC-Eifelrennen 1964
Nürburgring Südschleife, Adenau, Germany
April 26 12 laps x 7747 m = 92.964 km Pole Position: Fastest Lap: Jean-Claude Franck, 3'22.7"
Pos Cla. # Driver, Nationality Entrant Car - Engine Time, Laps Reason Out
1 1 21 Jean-Claude Franck, B Paul Swaelens Cooper T72 - BMC 41'25.0"
2 2 23 John Ampt, GB Team Alexis Alexis Mk 5 - Ford/Cosworth 41'28.9"
3 3 60 Jonathan Williams, GB Anglo-Swiss Racing Team Lotus 31 - Ford 42'01.8"
4 4 48 Josef Hecht, D Josef Hecht Lola Mk 3 - Ford 43'45.6"
5 5 64 Alain Jamar, B Belgian Racing Team Cooper T65 - Ford 44'23.5"
6 6 34 John Harwood, GB Arthur Mallock U2 Mk 3 - Ford
7 7 50 Otto Lux, D Otto Lux Lotus 18 - Ford
8 8 53 Rolf Scheel, D Rolf Scheel Cooper T59 - DKW
9 9 65 Theo Harzheim, D Theo Harzheim Cooper T56 - Ford
10 10 61 Piers Courage, GB Anglo-Swiss Racing Team Lotus 31 - Ford
11 11 35 Georges Ansermoz, CH Ecurie Lèman Lotus 22 - Ford
12 DNF 20 Jacques Bernusset, B Paul Swaelens Cooper T72 - BMC
13 DNF 30 Chuck Jones Chuck Jones Lola - Ford
14 DNF 31 Willy Vroomen, B Willy Vroomen Lova - DKW
15 DNF 40 Vincenzo d'Arrigo Starke Racing Team Cooper T52 - DKW
16 DNF 41 Albert Achinger, D Albert Achinger Lotus 20 - Ford
17 DNF 43 Roland Binder, D Roland Binder Lotus 27 - Ford
18 DNF 44 Kurt Demen, D Kurt Demen Lotus 18 - Ford
19 DNF 49 Dieter Lanzerath, D Dieter Lanzerath Lotus 20 - Ford
20 DNF 51 "Franz Müller" (Roman Dirschl), D "Franz Müller" Lotus 34 - Ford
21 DNF 52 Dieter Noisternig, D Dieter Noisternig Elva
22 DNF 54 Josef Schnitzer, D Josef Schnitzer Lola - Ford
23 DNF 55 Ernst Schubert, D Ernst Schubert Black Widow
24 DNF 63 Paul Deetens, B Belgian Racing Team Cooper T72 - Ford
25 DNA 24 George Smith, USA Team Alexis Alexis - Ford
26 DNA 25 Gabriel Aumont, F Automobiles Gabriel Aumont Aumont - Panhard
27 DNA 26 Jean-Pierre Muller, F Automobiles Gabriel Aumont Aumont - Panhard
28 DNA 27 --- Automobiles Gabriel Aumont Aumont - Panhard
29 DNA 28 Fritz Heini, CH Formel Rennsport Club Cooper T65 - Ford
30 DNA 29 Peter Revson, USA Revson Racing Cooper T72 (T67 ?) - BMC
31 DNA 32 Jens-Christian Legarth, DK Jens-Christian Legarth Lotus 22 - Ford
32 DNA 33 David Coode, GB David Coode Penny - Ford
33 DNA 36 Harald Limberger, D Renngemeinschaft Berlin Cooper - Ford
34 DNA 37 Joachim Münchow, D Renngemeinschaft Berlin Cooper T52 - Ford
35 DNA 38 Günter Schramm, D Renngemeinschaft Berlin Cooper T59 - Ford
36 DNA 39 Rudolf Thurner, D Isar Racing Team Cooper-Mitter - DKW
37 DNA 42 Peter Biberger, D Peter Biberger Eigenbau - DKW
38 DNA 45 Claus Dörmer, D Claus Dörmer Melkus - Wartburg
39 DNA 46 Peter Garske, D Peter Garske Eigenbau - DKW
40 DNA 47 Wolfgang Gras, D Wolfgang Gras Lola
41 DNA 56 Walter Treser, D Walter Treser Lotus - DKW/Mitter
42 DNA 57 Richard Weber, D Isar Racing Team Lotus 18 - DKW
43 DNA 58 Eddie Fletcher, GB Overland Executive London Brabham BT2 - BMC
44 DNA 59 Georges Rossetti, CH Georges Rossetti Lotus 20 - Ford
45 DNA 62 John Peterson, USA Peterson Racing Organization Brabham BT6 - Ford
#23
Stingray66
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- 19 posts
- Joined: November 08
New Member
Posted 05 November 2008 - 05:20
There is no dought that Franz Muller was driving a lotus 34 in 1964
XIII Trierer Flugplatzrennen 1964
Flugplatz Trier, Germany
Pos Cla. # Driver, Nationality Entrant Car - Engine/Tuner Time, Laps Reason Out
1 1 209 "Franz Müller" (Roman Dirschl), D "Franz Müller" Lotus 34 - Ford 27
2 2 195 Dieter Lanzerath, D Dieter Lanzerath Lotus 20 - Ford 27
3 3 201 Otto Lux, D Otto Lux Lotus 20 - Ford/Holbay 27
4 4 197 Roland Binder, D Roland Binder Lotus 27 - Ford
5 5 200 Walter Treser, D Walter Treser Lotus - DKW/Mitter
6 6 159 Theo Harzheim, D Theo Harzheim Cooper T56 - Ford
7 7 196 Kurt Dernen, D Kurt Dernen Lotus 18 - Ford
8 8 199 Josef Schnitzer, D Josef Schnitzer Lola - Ford
9 DNF 202 Rolf Scheel, D Rolf Scheel Cooper T59 - Ford
10 DNA 14 Werner Schiffers, D Rhein-Ruhr Racing Team Porsche-Eigenbau - DKW
11 DNA 193 Hans-Dieter Dechent, D Scuderia Lufthansa Brabham BT9 - Ford
12 DNA 194 Claus Dörmer, D Claus Dörmer Melkus - Wartburg
13 DNA 198 Tommy Bunn Continental American Racing Team Lola Mk 5 - DKW
14 DNA 203 Dieter Noisternig, D Dieter Noisternig Elva
Formula 2 Index
Formula 3 1964 Index - Europe
Formula 3 1964 Index - Great Britain
Formula 3 1964 Index - World
Previous Race
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XIII Trierer Flugplatzrennen 1964
Flugplatz Trier, Germany
Pos Cla. # Driver, Nationality Entrant Car - Engine/Tuner Time, Laps Reason Out
1 1 209 "Franz Müller" (Roman Dirschl), D "Franz Müller" Lotus 34 - Ford 27
2 2 195 Dieter Lanzerath, D Dieter Lanzerath Lotus 20 - Ford 27
3 3 201 Otto Lux, D Otto Lux Lotus 20 - Ford/Holbay 27
4 4 197 Roland Binder, D Roland Binder Lotus 27 - Ford
5 5 200 Walter Treser, D Walter Treser Lotus - DKW/Mitter
6 6 159 Theo Harzheim, D Theo Harzheim Cooper T56 - Ford
7 7 196 Kurt Dernen, D Kurt Dernen Lotus 18 - Ford
8 8 199 Josef Schnitzer, D Josef Schnitzer Lola - Ford
9 DNF 202 Rolf Scheel, D Rolf Scheel Cooper T59 - Ford
10 DNA 14 Werner Schiffers, D Rhein-Ruhr Racing Team Porsche-Eigenbau - DKW
11 DNA 193 Hans-Dieter Dechent, D Scuderia Lufthansa Brabham BT9 - Ford
12 DNA 194 Claus Dörmer, D Claus Dörmer Melkus - Wartburg
13 DNA 198 Tommy Bunn Continental American Racing Team Lola Mk 5 - DKW
14 DNA 203 Dieter Noisternig, D Dieter Noisternig Elva
Formula 2 Index
Formula 3 1964 Index - Europe
Formula 3 1964 Index - Great Britain
Formula 3 1964 Index - World
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#24
Stingray66
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- 19 posts
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New Member
Posted 05 November 2008 - 05:37
DMV Avusrennen 1964
Avus, Berlin, Germany
June 28 10 laps x 8300 m = 83.0 km Pole Position: --- Fastest Lap: ---
Pos Cla. # Driver, Nationality Entrant Car - Engine/Tuner Time, Laps Reason Out
1 1 21 Hans-Dieter Dechent, D Scuderia Lufthansa Brabham BT9 - Ford 10
2 2 20 Hermann Dorner, D Scuderia Lufthansa Brabham BT9 - Ford 10
3 3 2 Paul Deetens, D Belgian Racing Team Cooper T72 - BMC 10
4 4 18 Dieter Lanzerath, D Dieter Lanzerath Lotus 20 - Ford 10
5 5 1 Alain Jamar, B Belgian Racing Team Cooper T67 - BMC 10
6 6 6 Roland Binder, D Roland Binder Lotus 27 - Ford
7 7 5 Rolf Scheel, D Rolf Scheel Cooper T59 - Ford
8 8 7 Max Harrieder, D Racing Team RBL Merlyn Mk 3 - Ford
9 9 17 Theo Harzheim, D Theo Harzheim Cooper T56 - Ford
10 10 11 Georgez Ansermoz, CH Ecurie Léman Lotus 22 - Ford
11 11 9 Karl Starke, D Starke Racing Team AU-Bode - DKW
12 DNF 15 Richard Höhfeld, D MRRC Höhreich Lola-Höhreich Eigenbau
13 DNF 13 Joachim Münchow, D Renngemeinschaft Berlin Cooper T56 - Ford
14 DNF 14 Harald Limberger, D Renngemeinschaft Berlin Cooper - Ford
15 DNF 19 Gabriel Aumont, F Automobiles Gabriel Aumont Aumont - Panhard
16 DNF 10 Vincenzo d'Arrigo Vincenzo d'Arrigo Cooper T52 - DKW
17 DNF 22 Jörgen Ellekaer, DK Jörgen Ellekaer Lotus 22 - Ford
18 DNA 3 Willy Vroomen, B Willy Vroomen Lova - DKW
19 DNA 4 "Franz Müller" (Roman Dirschl), D "Franz Müller" Lotus 34 - Ford
20 DNA 8 Ralph Buschaus de Laforest, F Racing Team RBL Merlyn Mk 7 - Ford
21 DNA 12 Günther Schramm, D Renngemeinschaft Berlin Cooper T59 - Ford/Holbay
22 DNA 16 Günther Hanneke, D Günther Hanneke Cooper - DKW
23 DNA 23 Richard Weber, D Isar Racing Team Lotus 18 - DKW
24 DNA 24 Robert Lamplough, GB Robert Lamplough Elva 300 - Ford
Formula 2 Index
Formula 3 1964 Index - Europe
Formula 3 1964 Index - Great Britain
Formula 3 1964 Index - World
Previous Race
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File created 2004-09-10
Avus, Berlin, Germany
June 28 10 laps x 8300 m = 83.0 km Pole Position: --- Fastest Lap: ---
Pos Cla. # Driver, Nationality Entrant Car - Engine/Tuner Time, Laps Reason Out
1 1 21 Hans-Dieter Dechent, D Scuderia Lufthansa Brabham BT9 - Ford 10
2 2 20 Hermann Dorner, D Scuderia Lufthansa Brabham BT9 - Ford 10
3 3 2 Paul Deetens, D Belgian Racing Team Cooper T72 - BMC 10
4 4 18 Dieter Lanzerath, D Dieter Lanzerath Lotus 20 - Ford 10
5 5 1 Alain Jamar, B Belgian Racing Team Cooper T67 - BMC 10
6 6 6 Roland Binder, D Roland Binder Lotus 27 - Ford
7 7 5 Rolf Scheel, D Rolf Scheel Cooper T59 - Ford
8 8 7 Max Harrieder, D Racing Team RBL Merlyn Mk 3 - Ford
9 9 17 Theo Harzheim, D Theo Harzheim Cooper T56 - Ford
10 10 11 Georgez Ansermoz, CH Ecurie Léman Lotus 22 - Ford
11 11 9 Karl Starke, D Starke Racing Team AU-Bode - DKW
12 DNF 15 Richard Höhfeld, D MRRC Höhreich Lola-Höhreich Eigenbau
13 DNF 13 Joachim Münchow, D Renngemeinschaft Berlin Cooper T56 - Ford
14 DNF 14 Harald Limberger, D Renngemeinschaft Berlin Cooper - Ford
15 DNF 19 Gabriel Aumont, F Automobiles Gabriel Aumont Aumont - Panhard
16 DNF 10 Vincenzo d'Arrigo Vincenzo d'Arrigo Cooper T52 - DKW
17 DNF 22 Jörgen Ellekaer, DK Jörgen Ellekaer Lotus 22 - Ford
18 DNA 3 Willy Vroomen, B Willy Vroomen Lova - DKW
19 DNA 4 "Franz Müller" (Roman Dirschl), D "Franz Müller" Lotus 34 - Ford
20 DNA 8 Ralph Buschaus de Laforest, F Racing Team RBL Merlyn Mk 7 - Ford
21 DNA 12 Günther Schramm, D Renngemeinschaft Berlin Cooper T59 - Ford/Holbay
22 DNA 16 Günther Hanneke, D Günther Hanneke Cooper - DKW
23 DNA 23 Richard Weber, D Isar Racing Team Lotus 18 - DKW
24 DNA 24 Robert Lamplough, GB Robert Lamplough Elva 300 - Ford
Formula 2 Index
Formula 3 1964 Index - Europe
Formula 3 1964 Index - Great Britain
Formula 3 1964 Index - World
Previous Race
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File created 2004-09-10
#25
David McKinney
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- 14,156 posts
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Member
Posted 05 November 2008 - 06:57
Whilst admiring the consistency of your belief, Dirschl's car was NOT NOT NOT a Lotus 34
What "Lotus records" show him in a 34?
What "Lotus records" show him in a 34?
#26
RAP
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- 704 posts
- Joined: December 03
Member
Posted 05 November 2008 - 08:09
Stingray
This information comes from http://www.formula2.net/F364_E7.htm and, I'm afraid is simply wrong. One of the problems of the internet is its lack of "quality control". I know you don't want to accept this but consider please.
The races you quote were all Formula 3 races which at the time was for racing cars up to 1000cc with production car engines. A Lotus 34 was an Indianapolis formula car with a 4200cc V8 engine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_34.
This information comes from http://www.formula2.net/F364_E7.htm and, I'm afraid is simply wrong. One of the problems of the internet is its lack of "quality control". I know you don't want to accept this but consider please.
The races you quote were all Formula 3 races which at the time was for racing cars up to 1000cc with production car engines. A Lotus 34 was an Indianapolis formula car with a 4200cc V8 engine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_34.
#27
Stingray66
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- 19 posts
- Joined: November 08
New Member
Posted 05 November 2008 - 20:52
HI I first want to express that I am Not here to start any problems or fights
I am just trying to find the history of my uncle
All these years it was thought he was killed in his LoLa only to find that the car as of today is still up and running . It was here that I learned of the lotus
And then the car has a major mystery all of the 1964 race results for formula 3 shows the car as a lotus 34 witch from what I am finding out was a little over kill
The only problem is I have a confirm account of the car that crash in to the tree that day and the person is really sure that there was a V8 in that car Now I did not see this (to young back in 64 I was only 11 years old) So I have a question Would it be possible
To take a lotus 31 and drop in the type 34 big block V8n in a lotus 31
The reason is I found out last night two months before his last race he had pulled the engine out of a brand new lotus to modify it for what all I can find out was to get more power out of the car he was complaining that it was not fast enough
Please under stand I do understand that a lotus 34 in the races he was running would have been to much car for the track but my uncle did do some nuty things’ before so this would sure sound like something he would have done
Now a 2nd question did they have inspection back in those days at the track and if so and some one brings in a type 31 with a type 34 engine would they not flag the car why was he aloud to run this car There has all way been some mystery around his death and now between the Lola and the lotus I really do not know what was going on back then . It been well over forty years and I would love to talk to some one that was there and knew my uncle But the realty is it been way to long ago and I think I will never find the answer
Thanks Norm
I am just trying to find the history of my uncle
All these years it was thought he was killed in his LoLa only to find that the car as of today is still up and running . It was here that I learned of the lotus
And then the car has a major mystery all of the 1964 race results for formula 3 shows the car as a lotus 34 witch from what I am finding out was a little over kill
The only problem is I have a confirm account of the car that crash in to the tree that day and the person is really sure that there was a V8 in that car Now I did not see this (to young back in 64 I was only 11 years old) So I have a question Would it be possible
To take a lotus 31 and drop in the type 34 big block V8n in a lotus 31
The reason is I found out last night two months before his last race he had pulled the engine out of a brand new lotus to modify it for what all I can find out was to get more power out of the car he was complaining that it was not fast enough
Please under stand I do understand that a lotus 34 in the races he was running would have been to much car for the track but my uncle did do some nuty things’ before so this would sure sound like something he would have done
Now a 2nd question did they have inspection back in those days at the track and if so and some one brings in a type 31 with a type 34 engine would they not flag the car why was he aloud to run this car There has all way been some mystery around his death and now between the Lola and the lotus I really do not know what was going on back then . It been well over forty years and I would love to talk to some one that was there and knew my uncle But the realty is it been way to long ago and I think I will never find the answer
Thanks Norm
#28
fines
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- 9,647 posts
- Joined: September 00
Member
Posted 05 November 2008 - 21:29
It will in all probability be VERY difficult to find a conclusive answer as to the cause of the accident, but be advised to accept that most people on this board have a vastly greater knowledge of motor racing (and some other things besides...) than the average internet (im)poster and/or www site host.
There is absolutely not the slightest doubt that your uncle did NOT drive a Lotus 34, or any other Lotus with a Ford DOHC Indy engine, he most certainly did have NO reason whatsoever nor any opportunity to purchase such an engine, and it would have been ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE to fool even the most moronic scrutineer and run a V8 racing engine in a Formula Three event!!!!
Unless you simply accept these very basic truths, you will not get anywhere with your research, believe me!
There is absolutely not the slightest doubt that your uncle did NOT drive a Lotus 34, or any other Lotus with a Ford DOHC Indy engine, he most certainly did have NO reason whatsoever nor any opportunity to purchase such an engine, and it would have been ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE to fool even the most moronic scrutineer and run a V8 racing engine in a Formula Three event!!!!
Unless you simply accept these very basic truths, you will not get anywhere with your research, believe me!
#29
Doug Nye
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- 11,535 posts
- Joined: February 02
Member
Posted 05 November 2008 - 22:17
Norm - please pay attention to Fines and Dave and RAP and the other posters here. The joint knowledge of racing, racing cars and the requirements of motor race organisers and scutineers - technical inspectors - is genuinely unsurpassed. The Lotus 34 was a monocoque-chassised car, with its fuselage skinned inside and out in sheet aluminium. It had huge fuel tankage. It was a big, hefty car (in relative terms).
In stark contrast the humble Lotus 31 was a multi-tubular Formula 3 car with relatively minimal fuel tankage. While the big 34 used a 4.2-litre Ford V8 engine the humble Formula 3 Type 31 used a 1-litre 4-cylinder in-line (most of the time). No Type 34 ran in 1-litre-limited Formula 3. We wish your researches well - and would not like to see you misled...as you have plainly been.
DCN
In stark contrast the humble Lotus 31 was a multi-tubular Formula 3 car with relatively minimal fuel tankage. While the big 34 used a 4.2-litre Ford V8 engine the humble Formula 3 Type 31 used a 1-litre 4-cylinder in-line (most of the time). No Type 34 ran in 1-litre-limited Formula 3. We wish your researches well - and would not like to see you misled...as you have plainly been.
DCN
#30
Stingray66
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- 19 posts
- Joined: November 08
New Member
Posted 06 November 2008 - 01:23
Ok I want to thank every one that has helped me Like I said before
I am not here to start any problems Life is way to short
I will take it as a lotus 31 I am just looking at the history of my uncles cars
I have alls way said if a car could only talk it would be interesting
You see I am on disability a sever head injury at my job was a fleet manager for DHL
So I spend my time reading up on old cars back in the 60s there was a Chevy dealership name Don Yenko most of the cars that he had built today are worth a lot of money so that opens the door for people trying to build fake one and pass them off as real
So me and others in the group have found and have all the VIN # of every car yenko built
We also have a records of all of the fake one that came along
What I am getting at I was not trying to upset any one and I was NOT looking in to this for any finical gains I just like the history of old cars just like I found his old LoLa and still running I just do not understand why there is so much confusing reports on this Lotus as a type 34 but for now I will put it to bed as type 31 because what I have read about the 34 was that this car was way to much car for the tracks that he was running and again thanks for all your help Norm
I am not here to start any problems Life is way to short
I will take it as a lotus 31 I am just looking at the history of my uncles cars
I have alls way said if a car could only talk it would be interesting
You see I am on disability a sever head injury at my job was a fleet manager for DHL
So I spend my time reading up on old cars back in the 60s there was a Chevy dealership name Don Yenko most of the cars that he had built today are worth a lot of money so that opens the door for people trying to build fake one and pass them off as real
So me and others in the group have found and have all the VIN # of every car yenko built
We also have a records of all of the fake one that came along
What I am getting at I was not trying to upset any one and I was NOT looking in to this for any finical gains I just like the history of old cars just like I found his old LoLa and still running I just do not understand why there is so much confusing reports on this Lotus as a type 34 but for now I will put it to bed as type 31 because what I have read about the 34 was that this car was way to much car for the tracks that he was running and again thanks for all your help Norm
#31
fines
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- 9,647 posts
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Member
Posted 06 November 2008 - 15:26
You are welcome, and sorry to hear about your disability.
#32
Hugo Boecker
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- 702 posts
- Joined: May 04
Member
Posted 07 November 2008 - 10:02
Why don't you look at this very well researched website about German-F3http://www.formel3guide.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=254&Itemid=231
You'll find always the Lotus 31. This site is based on original programms, entry lists press release and so on.
You'll find always the Lotus 31. This site is based on original programms, entry lists press release and so on.
#33
humphries
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- 931 posts
- Joined: February 03
Member
Posted 07 November 2008 - 12:17
Although I realise that we are talking about a mistaken number type I thought a tribute to Roman and pictures of "Franz Muller" in the rain at Mainz-Finthen and at Wunstorf might be more appropriate.
Copyright "Automobil" 1964.
John
#34
Stingray66
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- 19 posts
- Joined: November 08
New Member
Posted 07 November 2008 - 15:24
OH my god were did you find this I now have to find some one that read s german I have to say this is at lest to me is getting very intresting Thank you Norm
#35
Stingray66
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- 19 posts
- Joined: November 08
New Member
Posted 07 November 2008 - 15:37
Ok I am trying to trying to read some of this and NOW the mystery continues One part says Lotus F3 formula 3 and then it says formula 2 was this not two totally different type of race a cars???????
#36
r.atlos
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- 416 posts
- Joined: June 07
Member
Posted 07 November 2008 - 16:56
@Stingray66: The German text says that he was racing F3 and intended to move to F2 the following year .
#37
Stingray66
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- 19 posts
- Joined: November 08
New Member
Posted 08 November 2008 - 02:53
humphries Thank you very much for posting the pictures It really means a lot to me
thank you Norm
thank you Norm
#38
Stingray66
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- 19 posts
- Joined: November 08
New Member
Posted 07 February 2009 - 06:44
Hi I got a picture from some one that knew my uncle and sent me a picture a few moments before his crash
The picture showed it WAS a lotus 31 BUT it all so showed the left front tire side wall coming apart
I know I read it some where that lotus had a problem report about the dunlop tires they were useing but I just can not find it now
Here is a picture if you inlarge it you can see the tire coming apart and it seem that my uncle was looking at the tire
The picture showed it WAS a lotus 31 BUT it all so showed the left front tire side wall coming apart
I know I read it some where that lotus had a problem report about the dunlop tires they were useing but I just can not find it now
Here is a picture if you inlarge it you can see the tire coming apart and it seem that my uncle was looking at the tire
#39
adminj
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- 120 posts
- Joined: January 05
Member
Posted 09 February 2009 - 09:04
"Franz Müller´s" Lotus was wrong listed as a "34" in the starting list Norisring 1964, too. So I have to correct the results on my site now.
And here is a (low quality) scan of the starting grid 1964 (July 5th). From the left: Troberg, "Müller"/Dirschl, Dechent, Binder.
Jürgen
And here is a (low quality) scan of the starting grid 1964 (July 5th). From the left: Troberg, "Müller"/Dirschl, Dechent, Binder.
Jürgen
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#40
Stingray66
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- 19 posts
- Joined: November 08
New Member
Posted 21 February 2009 - 05:31
Found this video of a race in monaco gp in 1963 a little more than have way in you will see Franx Muller
my uncle
my uncle
#41
ReWind
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- 3,410 posts
- Joined: October 03
Member
Posted 21 February 2009 - 07:47
@Norm: Do you know the exact birth date of your uncle? If so, would you be so kind to tell?
