Formula One's Nuclear future

A large amount of time, effort and money has already been expended on Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems (KERS) in F1, a technology which is capable of nothing more than improving the efficiency with which the chemical energy possessed by fossil fuels is utilised in the propulsion of a wheeled vehicle. F1 should be thinking more radically. Specifically, F1 should be thinking about replacing chemical energy sources with nuclear energy sources. Whilst sustainable and controllable nuclear fusion is still beyond our capabilities, there is no reason why F1 couldn't move to nuclear fission power.

Each car, I propose, should be powered by a small fission reactor, rather like those in nuclear submarines, but lighter and smaller. Such a reactor would be no heavier than a conventional internal combustion engine. Whilst some might argue that a nuclear pile in the rear of a 200mph projectile is a recipe for disaster, nothing could be further from the truth. The neutrons emitted by the fission reaction can be absorbed by a material such as boron, and the gamma rays can be absorbed by a shield made from a high atomic number metal, such as tantalum. Both materials are sufficiently light to add a negligible amount of weight. The only remaining hazard then arises from the fission products in the reactor, and the danger of releasing these products into the environment in the event of a crash. To mitigate against this, nuclear fuel-cycle pit-stops will become necessary: mechanics donned in full protective clothing will remove the fuel rods from the car, insert a new batch, and send the car on its way. The pits and paddock will, of course, need to be decontaminated and decommissioned after every Grand Prix, but this is a small price to pay to infinitesimally reduce global CO2 emissions.

Nice joke

They're okay in Subs because of weight, weight of radiation defence.

The idea is again being researched for aircraft, if then Aerospace finds a sensible solution, maybe the Auto industry could, but I highly doubt.

Hydrogen is the way forward.

This could be the base for an engine: http://en.wikipedia....i/Project_Pluto . Then races could be held across whole countries, so no more bickering between tracks.

It's actually perfectly possible, I expect the reason it's not done is environmentalists would have a fit and the cars would not make the right noise.

What's so funny about this? Probably the pit-stops option seems a little far fetched,but I've always considered this an eventuality,although not in our own lifetimes.

Originally posted by BRK
What's so funny about this? Probably the pit-stops option seems a little far fetched,but I've always considered this an eventuality,although not in our own lifetimes.

A nuclear plant is a steam plant. A uranium fed kettle. It just wont work on a 600kg car.

Toshiba, in fact, have been working on what they call micro-reactors, for commercial sale:

http://www.nextenerg...ear-12.17b.html

Fission or fusion?

Ridiculousness of the 'nuclear' idea aside, why do people think that KERS is only useful for petrol/diesel automobiles?

I mean, would this 'nuclear F1 car' not still have brakes that waste energy?

Would there be a penalty for chaing the nuclear engine more than once every ten years?

Originally posted by Gordon McCabe
A large amount of time, effort and money has already been expended on Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems (KERS) in F1, a technology which is capable of nothing more than improving the efficiency with which the chemical energy possessed by fossil fuels is utilised in the propulsion of a wheeled vehicle. F1 should be thinking more radically. Specifically, F1 should be thinking about replacing chemical energy sources with nuclear energy sources. Whilst sustainable and controllable nuclear fusion is still beyond our capabilities, there is no reason why F1 couldn't move to nuclear fission power.

Each car, I propose, should be powered by a small fission reactor, rather like those in nuclear submarines, but lighter and smaller. Such a reactor would be no heavier than a conventional internal combustion engine. Whilst some might argue that a nuclear pile in the rear of a 200mph projectile is a recipe for disaster, nothing could be further from the truth. The neutrons emitted by the fission reaction can be absorbed by a material such as boron, and the gamma rays can be absorbed by a shield made from a high atomic number metal, such as tantalum. Both materials are sufficiently light to add a negligible amount of weight. The only remaining hazard then arises from the fission products in the reactor, and the danger of releasing these products into the environment in the event of a crash. To mitigate against this, nuclear fuel-cycle pit-stops will become necessary: mechanics donned in full protective clothing will remove the fuel rods from the car, insert a new batch, and send the car on its way. The pits and paddock will, of course, need to be decontaminated and decommissioned after every Grand Prix, but this is a small price to pay to infinitesimally reduce global CO2 emissions.

I am all for it !
I have a background in Nuclear Engineering
Where do I send my resume ?

shaggy

Originally posted by Gordon McCabe
Each car, I propose, should be powered by a small fission reactor

If you are going to dream, at the very least dream about fusion reactors. :

Originally posted by shaggy

I am all for it !
I have a background in Nuclear Engineering
Where do I send my resume ?

shaggy

Is the your Homer Simpson?

Originally posted by Gordon McCabe
Toshiba, in fact, have been working on what they call micro-reactors, for commercial sale:

http://www.nextenerg...ear-12.17b.html

Perfectly suitable for a race car...

Toshiba has developed a new class of micro size Nuclear Reactors that is designed to power individual apartment buildings or city blocks. The new reactor, which is only 20 feet by 6 feet, could change everything for small remote communities, small businesses or even a group of neighbors who are fed up with the power companies and want more control over their energy needs

Originally posted by Gordon McCabe
A large amount of time, effort and money has already been expended on Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems (KERS) in F1, a technology which is capable of nothing more than improving the efficiency with which the chemical energy possessed by fossil fuels is utilised in the propulsion of a wheeled vehicle. F1 should be thinking more radically. Specifically, F1 should be thinking about replacing chemical energy sources with nuclear energy sources. Whilst sustainable and controllable nuclear fusion is still beyond our capabilities, there is no reason why F1 couldn't move to nuclear fission power.

Each car, I propose, should be powered by a small fission reactor, rather like those in nuclear submarines, but lighter and smaller. Such a reactor would be no heavier than a conventional internal combustion engine. Whilst some might argue that a nuclear pile in the rear of a 200mph projectile is a recipe for disaster, nothing could be further from the truth. The neutrons emitted by the fission reaction can be absorbed by a material such as boron, and the gamma rays can be absorbed by a shield made from a high atomic number metal, such as tantalum. Both materials are sufficiently light to add a negligible amount of weight. The only remaining hazard then arises from the fission products in the reactor, and the danger of releasing these products into the environment in the event of a crash. To mitigate against this, nuclear fuel-cycle pit-stops will become necessary: mechanics donned in full protective clothing will remove the fuel rods from the car, insert a new batch, and send the car on its way. The pits and paddock will, of course, need to be decontaminated and decommissioned after every Grand Prix, but this is a small price to pay to infinitesimally reduce global CO2 emissions.

why not anti-matter propulsion?, which offers the highest density of energy on earth. This same technology is used in certain institutes for the treatment of cancer patients, so throw the whole 'green' label out the window, F1 would be saved as medical research!

Originally posted by PNSD
Hydrogen is the way forward.

As long as the hydrogen can be produced in a clean way.

I think if F1 goes much further down Mosely Avenue, we're liable to wind up with cars powered by little rodents running in 'exercise' wheels.

Originally posted by Craven Morehead
I think if F1 goes much further down Mosely Avenue, we're liable to wind up with cars powered by little rodents running in 'exercise' wheels.

Or carts suspended behind teams of panting 60-something year olds, being controlled by hookers with whips dressed in prison uniforms.

The amount of health and safety which accompanies anything nuclear (and I work on a nuclear licensed site so I know that which I speak of) makes such an idea totally implausible.

I mean look at Berilium ... the FIA banned that and it's only harmful if ingested as a particulate.

The thought of Nico Rosberg going up in a mushroom cloud after his latest shunt would be a bit dramatic.

there was a story in Analog back in the late '70s (I think) about a nuclear-powered racecar.

Originally posted by LostProphet
I mean look at Berilium ... the FIA banned that and it's only harmful if ingested as a particulate.

I'm not sure that the health reason that was given was the real reason that the FIA wanted it banned.

Originally posted by topski100




why not anti-matter propulsion?

yea and race in the stratosphere instead of f1 tracks. but then we have to keep the british gp so dont think that moseley will approve it. so no go.

why not anti-matter propulsion?

Nah, what we need is dilithium crystals. There seems to be a neverending supply of them on Rigel 7.

Originally posted by Rob


I'm not sure that the health reason that was given was the real reason that the FIA wanted it banned.

No, neither am I ...

But having put that down as the official reason (not "Because Mercedes engines were too good") it would be difficult to see the FIA turn around and ratify something more dangerous.

Perhaps these nuclear powered cars could have an anti matter recovery device, which enables each driver for move into Warp Factor 9 for 6.6 parsecs per lap. Or something...

Oh yeah.

So when 2 cars crash you can't have another GP in that location for 2.000 years.

Originally posted by Nitropower
Oh yeah.

So when 2 cars crash you can't have another GP in that location for 2.000 years.

Excellent, run the first nuclear powered races in Bahrain, Valencia and Shanghai.

Originally posted by potmotr


Is the your Homer Simpson?

Sadly, I have had to work with people like Homer

Originally posted by shaggy

Sadly, I have had to work with people like Homer

Donuts and overhwhelming incompetence?

How big would a 1 MW RTG be

Wouls a multi car crash result in critical mass?

KABOOOOM, there goes all F1s worries

Damn, I thought for a minute Mr. Bolshevik was back on the board.

Originally posted by potmotr


Excellent, run the first nuclear powered races in Bahrain, Valencia and Shanghai.

Don't forget to bring DC out of retirement too.

Cadillac WTF (yes, I shit you not, it's a 'WTF' )

There are, of course, some potential hazards associated with F1 cars powered by fission reactors, (as a number of contributors here have highlighted). Moreover, some development may still be required to produce fission reactors of the necessary size and weight.

However, there are also hazards associated with alternative technologies, such as KERS. Just imagine the consequences if that Japanese guy crashes his Williams down the pit-straight at Monaco, and an errant flywheel, spinning at 500,000,000 rpm, detaches itself from his car, and decapitates the extant members of the Grimaldi family. It would take at least a couple of weeks for Formula One's reputatation to recover from such an event.

Originally posted by Buttoneer
Cadillac WTF (yes, I **** you not, it's a 'WTF' )

All of the sudden Batmobiles seem obsolete... WTF indeed!

WTF

Originally posted by Buttoneer
Cadillac WTF (yes, I **** you not, it's a 'WTF' )

WTF, I bet it corners like a winnebago, just like every other American car.

Originally posted by Josta


WTF, I bet it corners like a winnebago, just like every other American car.

Judging by the clearance between wheel and arch, it's probably got the turning circle of a planetary orbit.

Originally posted by PNSD
They're okay in Subs because of weight, weight of radiation defence.

The idea is again being researched for aircraft, if then Aerospace finds a sensible solution, maybe the Auto industry could, but I highly doubt.

Hydrogen is the way forward.

Thats why I started a thread on Hydrogen and F1 last month.

Most people thought that a joke, but nuclear!!!!

Originally posted by Slartibartfast


Judging by the clearance between wheel and arch, it's probably got the turning circle of a planetary orbit.

Looking at the rears it's looks like someone bolted together a bunch of bicycle wheels.
The scariest thing about that is that GM must have put money into it, no wonder they are near bankrupt pissing away dollars on that thing.

[Strokey beard mode] hmm Nuclear powered land speed record attempt hmm [/Strokey beard mode]

(not that I have a beard)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliica

http://www.eliica.com/

4:40 onwards shows it in action

This car weighs 2400 kgs, can carry four passengers, can out accelerate a porsche, and can hit 370kmh.

It's pretty ugly, very radical, unrefined but most importantly, it actually works.
But to me, it's a testament to where motoring is heading.

...and it looks like a Nissan Micra from the front.

Interesting technology though. I'd be surprised if it cornered well but replace the tin top with a carbon fibre open-wheel chassis and the silent future of F1 beckons.

But...

I bet the teams would replace the batteries each and every race.

I'm sure it has heaps of faults, and yeah, I can see what you mean about the Nissan
I always thought it looked like a cross between a Toyota Estima, Renault Megane and Lady Penelope's car from The Thunderbirds "Yes M'lady"

(is it just me, is editing a prior post on this forum quite difficult?)

Originally posted by klyster
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliica

http://www.eliica.com/

4:40 onwards shows it in action

This car weighs 2400 kgs, can carry four passengers, can out accelerate a porsche, and can hit 370kmh.

It's pretty ugly, very radical, unrefined but most importantly, it actually works.
But to me, it's a testament to where motoring is heading.

Nice. Now, can I have a half (and remove a zero from the price)