Prince Bira

I need infornation and pics about Prince Bira, and I think this is a place to find those, so please, help.
P.S Any web pages you know, please tell URL.

Thanks

Walrus,

Motorsport Magazine published a thorough article about Prince Bira in their August 1999 issue. I scanned this article, and with the help of the Atlas F1 people, here it is for you to read.

(Since the pages are rather big, I present to you the thumbnails here. Click on each thumbnail to get the big image of each page)

Page 1:


Page 2:


Page 3:


Page 4:


Page 5:


As for Bira's records of F1 participation, you can look at this page on Forix.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Rainstorm


[This message has been edited by Rainstorm (edited 03-30-2000).]

How does this sort of thing get on with copyright?

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

Prince Bira was a great driver. Does anyone have a sign by him? I search since a long time for it but never found it. Now, for first it would also help me if I have only a scan.
Raimund

Thanks alot! That really helps me out!

Bira is one of those folks that just keeps popping up when you examine the racing of that time. It is fascinating to realize how many Maserati telaio he raced....

------------------
Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps

Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…

Deep pockets! Has any one read "The Prince and I"?

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Regards,

Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david

Life is racing, the rest is waiting

Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/

Would you have any stories from 30s and 40s?
Statics pre-war? Forix has just the official things so it`s not helping? The article was really good, by the way.

You may enjoy this anecdote, an extract from my book on Fangio:

'The round-the-houses race at San Remo [in 1949] was familiar territory for Fangio: “In practice I had quite a struggle with Bira, and Bira made fastest lap in practising on the Friday, although I beat that on the Saturday and set up the best time.” There was only one problem: his Maserati engine lost oil pressure. Fangio himself inspected the failed connecting-rod bearing, polished away the scoring of the rod journal and meticulously fitted a new bearing before going to bed at one in the morning.

'In both of the two San Remo heats Fangio rocketed off and led all the way through. “Bira made the fastest lap,” said Fangio of the very experienced Siamese prince who was driving a similar car and whom he defeated by a minute on aggregate time. In the Temporada races [in Argentina] Bira had driven to conserve his Maserati far from home. “Bira in Europe was not the Bira we had seen in Argentina. In Europe he had a big reputation and he hadn’t achieved it by going slowly, you may be sure.”'

So we have the word of Fangio that Bira was no slowcoach! But for him as for other private teams the cars were driven with some care to keep down the cost of racing. Did Bira ever have a proper works drive? One in which he could really push the car? I don't think so!


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Karl Ludvigsen


[This message has been edited by karlcars (edited 04-12-2000).]

Walrus : Leif has a short bio on the prince at http://www.kolumbus....snellman/d1.htm

This also includes his results between 1935 and 1939.

Darren Galpin's site (http://www.silhouet....en/archive.html) also mentions:
21 July 1946 I Grand Prix des Nations : 6th (ERA B-Type 'R2B')
8 May 1947 I JCC Jersey Road Race : outside top 6, but scored pole (Maserati 4CL)
21 August 1947 IX British Empire Trophy : 5th (Maserati 4CL)
7 September 1947 XVII Gran Premio d'Italia : retired (Maserati)
29 April 1948 II JCC Jersey Road Race : 4th (Maserati 4CL 1584)
2 October 1948 British Grand Prix : 5th (Maserati 4CL 1532)
3 April 1949 San Remo Grand Prix : 2nd (Maserati 4CLT/48)
28 April 1949 JCC Jersey Road Race : 4th (Maserati 4CLT/48)
7 May 1949 Grand Prix du Rousillon : 2nd (Maserati 4CLT/48)
14 May 1949 British Grand Prix : No top 6 (Maserati 4CLT/48)
3 July 1949 Grand Prix de Suisse : 5th (Maserati 4CLT/48)
10 July 1949 Albi Grand Prix : 2nd (Maserati 4CLT/48)
17 July 1949 Grand Prix de France : 2nd (Maserati 4CLT/48)
31 July 1949 Zandvoort Grand Prix : 3rd (Maserati 4CLT/48)
20 August 1949 BRDC International Trophy : 6th (Maserati 4CLT/48)
11 September 1949 Gran Premio d'Italia : 3rd (Maserati 4CLT/48)
25 September 1949 Masaryk (Czech) Grand Prix : no top 6 (Maserati 4CLT/48)

Marcel Schot: Funny, when I looked at that site I noticed, that I`ve seen the site before, maybe a whole year ago, the first site I visited in hunger for knowledge of the racing in Nuvolari`s time (Only name I knew then), and my, that`s a good site. And Karl thank you too.

Marcel Schot: Funny, when I looked at that site I noticed, that I`ve seen the site before, maybe a whole year ago, the first site I visited in hunger for knowledge of the racing in Nuvolari`s time (Only name I knew then), and my, that`s a good site. And Karl thank you too.

Walrus

Attempting to build the complete racing record of Bira is a complex task.
Nonetheless, as a basic structure,there are three main items (digitalised, I mean) that you can have access to, and then you should put them together.
One is the Voiturette records that you can obtain from Leif's site. Those, apart from printed material, I have the sensation that you cannot find them anywhere else.
Then use the Forix (World Championship races) material.
And third, the non-championship races, from 1936 to 1955 you can obtain them by sending an email to any of us at 8W and we´ll send you a simple text file with the 72 items. It is a 4KB thing, but I have to admit that I am unable to guess how to post it here, and solution-man Racer.Demon should be sleeping right now...
:-)
Felix Muelas
The 8W Team
felix@the8wteam-racer.demon.nl

Of course a combination of The Racing Fifteen-Hundreds and Sheldon's volumes 3 to 6 will produce similar results. Against this option is the time it takes, but in favour is the fun you´ll get. You choose...

A recent thread about finding models of racing cars in the attic reminded me that I had an interview I had done in 1972 with Prince Birabongse Bhanubandh lurking in my files somewhere. I dug it out, and thought some of you might enjoy reading it.

Let me give the background first. To start with, I had at that point lived only in the U.S. I had traveled rather extensively in Europe, and when I did the interview in Bangkok, my new wife and I were taking a one-year trip around the world. Although I was a rabid motor racing fan, I had had access only to books and magazines then available in the States, which were not all that many at the time. There was, of course, no Internet. I knew a bit about Bira at the time of the interview from having seen him mentioned—it was hardly more than that—in various articles I had read. I didn’t know anything about Prince Chula, his cousin, except that Chula had set Bira up in racing.

At any rate, the purpose of my interview—as the piece itself shows—was to find out what it was like to rub elbows and bump wheels with the great drivers of the pre-war and immediate post-war period. Here was one of the few men alive who could tell me about it. I made contact with Bira through a well-connected American then living in Bangkok, and we met at a 5-star hotel on Silom Road, one of the city’s major thoroughfares, and spoke for about 45 minutes, and then he was off, leaving behind a rather disappointed young reporter. He hardly had anything at all to say about the drivers, or about racing in general. Looking at the story 30 years later, I guess I can say it was a bit of fun after all, but it didn’t seem so at the time, as the headline I put on it shows.

I never did sell the piece. My own newspaper (the Washington Star), to which I was sending feature stories as we moved around the world, was not at all interested. The sports page editor then was one of those extremely provincial Americans who once said to me—I’m not making this up—“If it doesn’t have a ball, it’s not a sport.” I sent it off to Road & Track but never heard back from them. I found the copy a couple of years back while rummaging through some boxes of old papers. I've inserted a couple of editor's notes into the original copy.

The story was written in February of 1972. Bira died of a heart attack in London in 1985.


A SHORT AND, ON THE WHOLE, RATHER DISAPPOINTING
CONVERSATION WITH ONE OF THE FEW GREAT
PRE-WORLD WAR II DRIVERS STILL ALIVE

Bangkok, February (1972)—At 58, he looks as if he could still jump into a formula car and turn a couple of fast laps. He bounds up the stairs like a man half his age, his eyes are sharp behind his glasses, his short body is trim and compact.
What an opportunity, to talk with one of the few great pre-World War II drivers still alive. What he must remember about those fantastic, howling machines (Vroom! Vroo-oom! Screee! Eeeeooowww!), and his contemporaries, men like Caracciola and Nuvolari and Von Brauchitz and Fagioli and…
Just a little prodding, to get him talking about the good old days.
“Nuvolari was my hero…Seaman was quite a driver, same as Ascari: he had a lot of flair…(He’s getting warmed up now)…I helped teach Moss. The pupils always beat their teachers…(Just sit back now and let him ramble on)…But all these names, they’re like old clouds to me…(Oops)…In fact, I’m not interested in racing anymore.”
So much for the good old days.
But he can’t have left it all behind. Something must be left. Surely he slips quietly behind the wheel of a fast touring machine every now and then and tears off through the countryside at 100 mph, reveling in the powerful throb of the engine and recapturing the past for just a moment.
“I have a Toyota Crown now. I drive it at 85 kph. In Bangkok, I let my driver drive.”
Okay, so much for fast touring cars. Prince Birabongse Bhanubandh, the only Asian ever to reach the top ranks on the international grand prix circuit, has other interests these days. The construction business. The oil business. Gliding (that’s something ). Yachting with his cousin, Prince (ed. note: now King ) Bhumibol Adulyadej of Thailand.
His attitude may be part put-on, of course. Bira seems a sly, impish sort, certainly lecherous (although he says he just looks now). And the satisfaction of being recognized shows through occasionally as he talks. But on the whole, he is remarkably lackadaisical about, even a bit bored with, his glamorous one-time career and what by any measure was an incredibly romantic era.
“At the age of 19, I went to watch racing at Brooklands. I saw a beautiful girl, Kay Peters, and she was a great racing driver. And so I said, ‘Well, my God, how could I make this girl?’ And the only way was to get near her. That’s how I was introduced into the racing game.”
His first car was a Riley Imp, he said, which went at the “great speed” of 105 mph. But he graduated quickly, first to an ERA (which he nicknamed “Romulus”), then to Ferrari, Masterati, BRM, BMW and Jaguar. He remembers the ERA most fondly.
“It’s like anything else,” he said, “when you do it for the first time, it’s a thrill.”
“It was my 21st birthday, and the car was given to me by my cousin, Prince Chula. It arrived at my birthday party in London. The next day we went to Dieppe, and tested it the following morning. What a thrill! Four-thirty, get up; five, on the road; five-thirty, going 135 miles per hour.”
He was never one of the really greats, of course, but he did his share of winning. His first win was at Monte Carlo in 1935, when he took the 1 ½ -liter supercharged voiturette class, and he went on to win three more races in a row.
“That hit the headlines,” he said, with what seemed like a gleam in his eye—but then the put-down again. “It would have hit the headlines the same if I was killed, but I preferred to win races. If you win races, you win a lot of girls.”
He won, by his own reckoning, “countless” girls, and a good many more races as well. He won the British Gold Star three years running. “I was the first guy to win the hat trick. After the third win, the British Racing Drivers Club decided they couldn’t have a foreigner doing this, so they cut me out.”
Bira drove again after WWII, racking up a few points (ed. note: 8 points, 1950-‘54 ) in the modern championship, and he went out in style, winning the non-championship 1955 New Zealand Grand Prix. "I woke up the next morning,” he recalled, “and said to myself, well, what are we doing here? Cups, girls, cars—maybe you’re dead the next day. And I quit the next day.”
He now lives in Bangkok, where he is considered something of a black sheep in the royal family. Perhaps for this reason, he avoids court life as much as possible. “I go to see the King, have dinner with him sometimes. There’s too much hubbub there. I try to keep quiet.”
Rather dull, for one of the few great pre-World War II drivers still alive. But wait: here’s something else. Last year he went to California’s Ontario International Raceway to watch a race. He was impressed.
“It’s fantastic,” he said, his eyes gleaming once more. “In the old days, we never raced on big tracks like this. This Ontario, it was something out of this world.
“The only criticism I have is that from the point of view of the spectator, you don’t know who the driver is. We used to sit up about four or five feet above the ground. The nicest thing about Ontario is that there’s a bar behind, you can get drunk.”
He said he hung around the pits, though. Did he enjoy meeting the current generation of great drivers? He ran into Dennis Hulme, the 1967 world champion. “Hulme embraced me,” Bira said with a laugh. “He said, ‘Are you the Bira that I was watching from outside the fence when you won the New Zealand Grand Prix?’ I said, ‘Yes. Who are you?’ He said, ‘I’m the world champion.’”
Aw, come on, Prince: you didn’t know who Denny Hulme was?
“Well, I had heard of him.”
Right.
Perhaps I’ll look up Fangio if I’m ever in Argentina. Maybe he likes to talk about the good old days, and his contemporaries, Ascari and Farina, Hawthorn and Collins and Musso, and those fantastic, howling machines (Squeeeeee! Whomp, whomp! Waaaahhhhh!)…and the glamor of it all and…

###

Barry Kalb

Very nice! Thank you, Barry!

One question, though: was he really barred from BRDC Gold Star competition?

I don't know, and I'm not sure from this distance how I'd find out. Maybe one of the UK-based TNFers would know.

Barry

Originally posted by fines
One question, though: was he really barred from BRDC Gold Star competition?

When? http://kanchanapisek...3/pe045_01.html

Originally posted by bkalb
I saw a beautiful girl, Kay Peters, and she was a great racing driver.

I enjoyed reading your article. Quite a lot in fact. Thanks.

Would this have been Kay Petre by chance?

Hermann Lang, I suppose, must be adjudged European Champion, and Johnny Wakefield is the BRDC Road Racing star man and Ian Connell the Track star winner - at least moral winners.

The Motor, September 12th 1939.

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Is there really any need for this

I'm afraid you've lost me here Ray.

Dennis, I'm sure he was referring to Kay Petre (see below from the Brooklands web site). I wasn't in a position to do the normal fact-checking at the time I wrote the piece, and relied on what Bira had told me. You'll note she was married, by the way: Bira never said whether he had any luck with her.


Kay Petre was the daughter of a well to do Canadian barrister who had clients both in England and South Africa which is why the family settled in England leading to Kay visiting Brooklands.

Her husband bought her a Wolseley Hornet in which she competed, having had a white leather jacket and helmet tailor mad to get into the swing of things. When she was successful the press went wild, identifying some glamour and style amongst the normal oil and grime of serious motor racing. Consequently she was always featured in the newspapers, no doubt the more so because she was petite an only 4ft 10in. tall as well as pretty.

She moved on to an Invicta, a Bugatti and ultimately the ex-Cobb 10½ litre Delage in which she held the womens’ Outer Circuit lap record of 129.58 m.p.h. from from 26th October 1934 until she lost it to Gwenda Stewart on the 3rd August 1935, took it back the same day at 134.75 and then promptly lost it again to Gwenda Stewart driving the Derby Miller three days later at 135.95 m.p.h., a figure that was never bettered.

She was well known as a member of the Austin team in which she drove the side valve car and in which she had a serious accident when Reg Parnell came up too fast behind her, braked, lost speed and slid down the banking, clipped the tail of her car which then crashed heavily. She was badly injured and rushed to Weybridge hospital. After a period of convalescence she returned to Brooklands early in 1938 and practised in a Riley but she could not whip up any enthusiasm and never raced again. She felt so discouraged by the episode that it was a long time before anyone could get her to talk about racing again. She was engaged to do the fabric designs for Alec Issigonis’ mini in the sixties and she also worked as a journalist.

I've always wondered what was the significance to Bira of the White Mouse branding of his team. I think it was an interesting touch.

In her autobiography Ceril Birabongse says that it was Chula's nickname - 'Nou', Siamese for little mouse. The mouse was painted on Bira's cars to indicate Chula's involvement.

Originally posted by Tim Murray
In her autobiography Ceril Birabongse says that it was Chula's nickname - 'Nou', Siamese for little mouse. The mouse was painted on Bira's cars to indicate Chula's involvement.

Thanks Tim. You have jogged my memory as I now recall reading or hearing this before.

Just another fact lost in the vast jumble of my memory.

Barry, thank you for your most interesting post.

I have several old buddies with whom I raced 40-odd years ago. While they don't mind talking about "back then", some have no real interest in the current motorsports scene. It's as though they lost all interest once they quit driving.

Not me: I'm as rabid a fan as ever, even though I haven't turned a wheel in anger in ages.

Slightly OT, but in line with this general thread of discussion: 20-odd years ago, there was a dentist whose name escapes me. IIRC, he was from Oregon. Ran in SCCA Nationals for only one year (?). Showing enormous talent, he decisively won the very quick Formula B Runoffs at Road Atlanta, then promptly quit racing. Said he just wanted to see if he could do it. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

What was the relationship between Prince Bira and the lead character in the book Anna and the King of Siam, which was the basis of the movie, The King and I.

Grandson.

Bira's father was HRH Prince Bhanurangsri Bhanubandh, son of King Mongkut and Queen Debsirindra and full brother of King Chulalongkorn.

"The Prince and I" by Princess Ceril, page 11

That took longer to type than to find, since the book was on my desk!

Oh, and if you need to know, Bira's father was the uncle of Prince Chakrabongse, Chula's father. In other words, Chula was Bira's father's great-nephew. So, I'd have thought that technically meant that Bira was actually Chula's uncle, although they're always described as cousins!

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Oh, and if you need to know, Bira's father was the uncle of Prince Chakrabongse, Chula's father. In other words, Chula was Bira's father's great-nephew. So, I'd have thought that technically meant that Bira was actually Chula's uncle, although they're always described as cousins!

What paths you lead us up, Vitesse!
Bira's father and Chula's grandfather were brothers. That made Bira and Chula first cousins, once removed - the removed signifies a generation gap - one remove for each generation.
http://www.myrelativ...efinitions.html
Chula was actually six years Bira's senior, since he was born when his father was 25 and Bira when his father was 55.

Originally posted by Felix Muelas
Attempting to build the complete racing record of Bira is a complex task.
Nonetheless, as a basic structure,there are three main items (digitalised, I mean) that you can have access to, and then you should put them together.
One is the Voiturette records that you can obtain from Leif's site. Those, apart from printed material, I have the sensation that you cannot find them anywhere else.
Then use the Forix (World Championship races) material.
And third, the non-championship races, from 1936 to 1955 you can obtain them by sending an email to any of us at 8W and we´ll send you a simple text file with the 72 items. It is a 4KB thing, but I have to admit that I am unable to guess how to post it here, and solution-man Racer.Demon should be sleeping right now...
:-)
Felix Muelas
The 8W Team
felix@the8wteam-racer.demon.nl

Of course a combination of The Racing Fifteen-Hundreds and Sheldon's volumes 3 to 6 will produce similar results. Against this option is the time it takes, but in favour is the fun you´ll get. You choose...

Felix, don´t forget, that "racing" is not limited to single seaters only:



Bira in the BMW 328, Tourist Trophy 1937.

So for a "complete racing record" you might also include this source into your list:

http://wsrp.wz.cz/

Originally posted by Kpy


What paths you lead us up, Vitesse!
Bira's father and Chula's grandfather were brothers. That made Bira and Chula first cousins, once removed - the removed signifies a generation gap - one remove for each generation.
http://www.myrelativ...efinitions.html
Chula was actually six years Bira's senior, since he was born when his father was 25 and Bira when his father was 55.

All a matter of interpretation! I acknowledge what you're saying there Chris, but I think I'm technically right as well! Let's agree to disagree ....

Originally posted by uechtel
Felix, don´t forget, that "racing" is not limited to single seaters only:

... and he also took part in quite a number of handicaps at Brooklands, Donington and Crystal Palace which don't figure in many racing records either.

Originally posted by Vitesse2


I think I'm technically right as well! Let's agree to disagree ....

Quite happy to agree to disagree amicably, Richard. But your uncle is a brother of one of your parents. Your uncle's son is your cousin, and your great-uncle's son is your cousin once removed, not your uncle.
Far more to the point - is the book worth the read? I can get it in France for about a tenner.

And Motorbooks have the paperback at 3.99!

Prince Chula wrote several books about the White Mouse stable and prewar racing. They regularly come up at the second booksellers.

I like these galleries taken from old films:

http://www.brookland...e/gallery20.htm
http://www.brookland...e/gallery21.htm
http://www.brookland...e/gallery22.htm
http://www.brookland...e/gallery23.htm
http://www.brookland...e/gallery24.htm
http://www.brookland...e/gallery25.htm
http://www.brookland...e/gallery26.htm
http://www.brookland...e/gallery53.htm

© The Brooklands Society (http://www.brooklands.org.uk)

Originally posted by Kpy


Far more to the point - is the book worth the read? I can get it in France for about a tenner.

The book is delightful/delicieux.

Many books about Bira by his cousin, Road Racing 1936, Wheels at Speed, Road Star Hat Trick and Blue and Yellow. Recently a book called "The Prince and I" by his widow, a good read from a different perspective.

The film "The King and I" is, of course, based on the original stage musical By Rogers and Hammerstein of the same name.

A delightful chap... one with a real taste for life, if we must believe what Tony Rudd wrote in "It was Fun !!!".
The lad semed to sleep together with his wife and a fiancee in the same bed.
I was born to be a Siamese prince, I feel it...

Most interesting! First time on TNF since 2001, I believe, and what do I see? This thread, started by me way back then. And Favourite Amon stories still going!! Which, Keir, is quite going-strong - Would have never believed if you`d said back then that he is going to post! Not directly, still.

I've never been able to read much about him. Does anyone have any anecdotes, or tell me what (if there is one) book I should get to read up on him and his career??

-Wheels at speed
-Road racing
-Road Star hat trick
-Blue and yellow
all by Prince Chula

-Bits and pieces
by Prince Bira

-The Prince and I
by Princess Ceril Birabongse

If after all of that you are not happy...!

Why not try "The Prince and I" by his former wife Ceril Birabongse. A nice book about Bira's life and racing.

A one-time lady friend of 'Bira's described him as being "sleek, glossy and completely adorable - rather like a seal". He wore prescription-lens goggles. He seemed to have very little technical appreciation of the cars he drove in races, but would spend simply ages ensuring his seating position, seat comfort and control positions were absolutely tailored to his preferences. Once he was comfy with every control falling instantly to hand or foot - he could drive very quickly and smoothly indeed. After the postwar split from his protective and highly efficient cousin Prince Chula he seems to have progressed from one financial disaster to another - and when his personal credit as a comparatively minor royal prince of the Thai court ran out, he had a really tough time. During the 1950s he seems to have been involved in a series of less-than-straightforward wheeler-deals with racing cars and other properties, not only in Thailand and the UK, but also throughout Europe, and in South America, Australia, and New Zealand. In later life he was constantly coming up with new-fangled money-making schemes, or becoming associated with those dreamed-up by other people who adopted him as their Internationally acceptable front man. Few, if any, proved successful for him.

During his Olympic yachting period representing Thailand he evidently had two wives. I cannot recall their names but they were something like 'Lom' and 'Lek', one indicating 'Heavy' and the other one 'Light'. Dependent upon the weather conditions and his racing yacht's rating requirements he would select one or the other (or neither) as members of his crew that day. He had a son by one of them when he was in relatively advanced old age. At one point in Thailand in the 1970s when interviewed by my pal David Weguelin he explained rather cryptically that "'Bira' is dead. He died a long time ago. You can call me 'Osca'...". His is a story still to be fully plumbed...and after his rather bitter and painful split from Chula's guardianship - and friendship - it is not by any means all roses.

DCN

thanks Doug, interesting stuff.............

I read this thread with some interest as Bira died or suffered a fatal heart attack or stroke on a district line tube train near Hammersmith that I used at the time, in 1984 I seem to recall.

His first wife Ceril lived on Lake Garda and was still there in the early 1990s.

I remember as a child going down to Rock in Cornwall with my parents to stay with Prince Chula and Bira. This was probably one of those country weekend parties that were popular at that time.
Prince Bira was very charming and spent some time with my sister and me, showing us the model room and, on one very memorable occasion, taking me on his lap while he drove one of the ERAs up and down the very long driveway. This was only possible as both he and I were quite small and I remember having to brace myself off his lap so he could use the pedals. What a wonderful introduction to the pre-war racing scene for me. I also remember there was a Maserati and a huge Rolls in the garage too.
They had a number of dogs which had free rein of the household and were always underfoot. There was even a "doggie bar" so named with a sign where the food and water was kept.
These are fragmented memories of course as I was only eight or nine years old at the time.
I have a photograph of the weekend guests posing for a group photo but have had no luck downloading onto this site so, if anybody can help me I'd be happy to post it.

Originally posted by Miles Fenton
.....I have a photograph of the weekend guests posing for a group photo but have had no luck downloading onto this site so, if anybody can help me I'd be happy to post it.

If you can't follow the instructions in the sticky thread at the top of the page, e.mail it to raybell@ramojan.com and I'll set it up for you...

Then we'll get into some serious questions about what you really remember!

Where,s this picture Miles.This could turn into a really good thread.Someone told me that towards the end of his life Bira was found sitting on the pavement selling his BRDC Gold stars etc.

Originally posted by Ted Walker
Where,s this picture Miles.This could turn into a really good thread.Someone told me that towards the end of his life Bira was found sitting on the pavement selling his BRDC Gold stars etc.

I heard that "He'd sell anything that wasn't nailed down, whether he owned it or not.." which goes with some of the earlier postings about his long history of "unusual" financial dealings.

Simon Lewis
Transport Books
www.simonlewis.com