From a dedicated Tazio website
He did not win as often as before, but he became more and more popular. In Turin, on September 3rd, he started the Coppa Brezzi driving a Cisitalia D46. He was in the lead at the end of the first lap. On the second one he passed in front of the pit area waving the steering wheel which had come off in his hands. He did another lap driving the steering column but then he had to stop for the inevitable repairs. He started again and ended the race ranking 13th. The story went around the world and added popularity to his already formidable myth. "Without steering wheel"
Imagine this occurring today!
Legendary Tazio Nuvolari
Started by
mhferrari
, Dec 02 2000 02:21
45 replies to this topic
Advertisement
#2
Wolf
-
- 7,883 posts
- Joined: June 00
Member
Posted 02 December 2000 - 02:35
Mhferrari, how about this? BTW, I don't think the steering wheel was detachable. 
#3
mhferrari
-
- 3,238 posts
- Joined: August 00
Member
Posted 02 December 2000 - 02:38
I was trying to get the exact picture, but couldn't. I don't think it was detachable either.
#4
Wolf
-
- 7,883 posts
- Joined: June 00
Member
Posted 02 December 2000 - 02:44
And how about his last Mille Miglia? That is the stuff you'll never see again...
#5
mhferrari
-
- 3,238 posts
- Joined: August 00
Member
Posted 02 December 2000 - 02:51
And at that age, if a driver could have half the heart today, it would add a lot of excitement.
#6
Dennis David
-
- 2,482 posts
- Joined: March 99
Member
Posted 02 December 2000 - 06:50
Just got my Grill Badge from the Tazio Nuvolari Museum and will be displaying it with honour.
#7
jk
-
- 1,750 posts
- Joined: November 00
Member
Posted 02 December 2000 - 15:30
What happened in his last Mille Miglia?
#8
mhferrari
-
- 3,238 posts
- Joined: August 00
Member
Posted 02 December 2000 - 17:31
He built up a real good lead in an Alfa 166S, I believe, but his car failed him. That's how good he was.
#9
Timm
-
- 123 posts
- Joined: September 00
Member
Posted 02 December 2000 - 20:18
I'm was reading a small history of the '36-'38 Cork road Races and was stunned to see that Nuvolari was entered one year but didn't compete due to injury.
I was telling my friend (we're both Irish) and told him the story of how one of his competitors claimed he was the devil. Can anyone tell the full story of this incident? is it true that Nuvolari used to go through corners with 100% W.O.T?
I was telling my friend (we're both Irish) and told him the story of how one of his competitors claimed he was the devil. Can anyone tell the full story of this incident? is it true that Nuvolari used to go through corners with 100% W.O.T?
#10
oldtimer
-
- 1,291 posts
- Joined: October 00
Member
Posted 02 December 2000 - 21:07
Timm, please explain the W.O.T. However, I can tell a story about Nuolari's cornering style. He was driving in the Tourist Trophy on the Dunrod circuit, in an MG, 193?. "Fraid I don't have any historical details and this may be one of those 'Nuvolari myths'. The circuit is pure road racing, stone bridges, kerbs, manhole covers etc. This was Nuvolari's first drive in an MG, which would have been one of those small-engined jobbies, probably supercharged. During practice, TN was explaining that he was taking a particularly difficult (read 'dangerous' in today's racing world) corner in 3rd gear. This struck one of the English drivers as a little outrageous, so he went out to see for himself. When he returned to the pits, he reported that, yes, you could take the corner in 3rd. He then added, "If you like driving like that."
This was the era of riding mechanics. After a pit stop (or even a road-side stop, all part of the scene), there was time to be made up. So Nuvolari pushed his mechanic's head down below the top of the scuttle to reduce the drag and was off in his furious way. Each time they passed a car, Nuvolari would stick an upraised thumb under the mechanic's nose to indicate things were going well. I think they went on to win.
Pity the mechanic couldn't post his story!
This was the era of riding mechanics. After a pit stop (or even a road-side stop, all part of the scene), there was time to be made up. So Nuvolari pushed his mechanic's head down below the top of the scuttle to reduce the drag and was off in his furious way. Each time they passed a car, Nuvolari would stick an upraised thumb under the mechanic's nose to indicate things were going well. I think they went on to win.
Pity the mechanic couldn't post his story!
#11
Wolf
-
- 7,883 posts
- Joined: June 00
Member
Posted 02 December 2000 - 23:39
As I recall, from Moss & our Dennis, in his last Mille Miglia he was also plagued by mechanical failures (broken bonnet and a spring, broken seat- he was driving sitting on a sack of oranges!), the man himself was deathly sick, and still leading the race- untill the brakes went. And how about him catching Varzi in Mille Miglia, driving without headlights- not to be spotted by the man in front of him.
#12
Timm
-
- 123 posts
- Joined: September 00
Member
Posted 03 December 2000 - 00:28
W.O.T = Wide Open Throttle
#13
fines
-
- 9,647 posts
- Joined: September 00
Member
Posted 03 December 2000 - 13:17
That's a myth. At the MM drivers were started at intervals, so they wouldn't actually fight for track position.Originally posted by Wolf
And how about him catching Varzi in Mille Miglia, driving without headlights- not to be spotted by the man in front of him.
#14
Ray Bell
-
- 80,270 posts
- Joined: December 99
Member
Posted 03 December 2000 - 14:06
The intervals were only a minute, and if you wanted to be sure to beat someone, it was a really good idea to be right on their tail (if it was the car that started in front of you) or ahead by over a minute... there was some necessary passing.
If Varzi knew ie was there, he might have put on a burst that enabled him to win.
If Varzi knew ie was there, he might have put on a burst that enabled him to win.
#15
mhferrari
-
- 3,238 posts
- Joined: August 00
Member
Posted 03 December 2000 - 17:48
Well it is much more possible than today to go through a turn with full throttle, because the courses had a lot of fast sweeping turns. If anybody could take turns at full throttle it would be him. But I am not so sure...
#16
oldtimer
-
- 1,291 posts
- Joined: October 00
Member
Posted 04 December 2000 - 03:45
This from the Pirelli Album of Motor Racing Heroes by John Surtees. 'Amongst others, Enzo Ferrari has given a written account of Nuvolari's technique on a bend. From what I can understand by reading between the lines, and from my own experience of driving some of the cars of the thirties, it seems that Nuvolari was one of the first genuinely to use the throttle to to steer his car. An inbuilt characteristic of these cars was a natural understeer. Nuvolari would counteract this - as Enzo Ferrari describes it - by 'smashing his foot down on the gas' and keeping it flat on the floor, setting up a four-wheel drift at a corner which would leave him perfectly placed with power fully applied for the exit.'
From the same book, and definitely another age. 'In the 1947 Mille Miglia, Nuvolari drove an open 1500cc Cisitalia. He was in the lead in torrential rain until ignition troubles forced him to slow down. He finished 2nd to a 2.9l Alfa driven by Biondetti who commented, 'I didn't win. I merely finished first."'
To say that after a 1000 mile drive says an awful lot...
From the same book, and definitely another age. 'In the 1947 Mille Miglia, Nuvolari drove an open 1500cc Cisitalia. He was in the lead in torrential rain until ignition troubles forced him to slow down. He finished 2nd to a 2.9l Alfa driven by Biondetti who commented, 'I didn't win. I merely finished first."'
To say that after a 1000 mile drive says an awful lot...
#17
Michael Müller
-
- 1,181 posts
- Joined: November 00
Member
Posted 04 December 2000 - 10:23
Oh, no, mhferrari! First of all it was no Alfa, it was a Ferrari 166 Spyder Corsa, to be exactly # 010I, and your “race description” is much too short! Wolf, slightly better, but still does not tell the whole story. Text hereafter is from my electronic archive, unfortunately I forgot to make a note on source.
Only World War II could temporarily halt Nuvolari’s racing exploits. However, shortly after the fighting stopped he returned to racing at the age of 53. In a minor race he had the steering wheel come off his car yet managed to return to the pits holding the wheel in one hand and the steering column with the other. He continued to win but age and sickness from acute asthma, the result of years of inhaling exhaust fumes would finally take their toll.
His last Mille Miglia, in 1948, was a defining moment in his illustrious career as it was clear to all this would be his last. A drive in a new Cisitalia had been arranged, however the car was damaged before the race and it looked as if Nuvolari would be sidelined before the race even began. Capitalizing on the moment, Enzo Ferrari had on hand a "spare" Tipo 166 Spyder Corsa and quickly arranged for Nuvolari to drive it. In a strange twist of fate, the actual owner Prince Igor Troubetskoy could not make the race as he had to travel on short notice to Paris to attend to his ill wife, Barbara Hutton.
.jpg)
Driving the Prince’s Ferrari he soon found himself where he belonged, in the lead. Though Nuvolari was very sick, coughing and spitting blood he was still able to open an incredible 29-minute lead over the next closest competitor! Driving in the only manner that he knew, flat out on the edge, he left parts of his car all along the Italian countryside. The Prince’s Ferrari slowly came apart loosing first the hood and then a front fender. Soon the driver's seat came loose and was shortly replaced with a sack of oranges and still he drove on. Knowing that he was dying and that this might be his last chance for a victory he would not, could not quit. When he reached Maranello his appearance shocked Enzo Ferrari, who begged him to quit even at the cost of denying Ferrari his first Mille Miglia victory. Some thought that he was on a suicide mission to die at the wheel of a race car rather than in a hospital. Finally with the brakes on his car failing while still leading the race the rear suspension upright cracked. He had driven the little Ferrari as fast as he could, as long as he could, and had it not failed nothing on this earth could have taken this last great victory from his grasp. His race over he stopped his car by the side of the road, exhausted he was lifted from his car by a local priest and put to bed.
It was several days later that Prince Troubetskoy learned that it was his own Ferrari the Nuvolari had been given for his ride in the Mille Miglia. The Prince was even more shocked when he was informed that he was being publicly thanked for kindly giving Nuvolari what was expected to be his last ride in the Mille Miglia. The Prince never forgave Ferrari for his indiscretion and even after the Ferrari Factory refurbished his car he remained bitter.
Sadly the 1948 Mille Miglia turned out to be Nuvolari’s last major race .. This man of small physical stature had the heart of a giant. Those who competed with him on the tracks of Europe knew that they would not see his likes again. It was said that Nuvolari had wanted to die in the sport that he loved so much. This wish was denied and on August 11th, 1953, 9 months after suffering a paralyzing stroke he passed away. As was his wish he was buried in his race uniform, consisting of his famous yellow jersey and blue trousers. The Italian nation and the world of motor sports continues to mourn the death of the greatest driver the world would ever see!
[p][Edited by Michael Müller on 12-11-2000]
Only World War II could temporarily halt Nuvolari’s racing exploits. However, shortly after the fighting stopped he returned to racing at the age of 53. In a minor race he had the steering wheel come off his car yet managed to return to the pits holding the wheel in one hand and the steering column with the other. He continued to win but age and sickness from acute asthma, the result of years of inhaling exhaust fumes would finally take their toll.
His last Mille Miglia, in 1948, was a defining moment in his illustrious career as it was clear to all this would be his last. A drive in a new Cisitalia had been arranged, however the car was damaged before the race and it looked as if Nuvolari would be sidelined before the race even began. Capitalizing on the moment, Enzo Ferrari had on hand a "spare" Tipo 166 Spyder Corsa and quickly arranged for Nuvolari to drive it. In a strange twist of fate, the actual owner Prince Igor Troubetskoy could not make the race as he had to travel on short notice to Paris to attend to his ill wife, Barbara Hutton.
Driving the Prince’s Ferrari he soon found himself where he belonged, in the lead. Though Nuvolari was very sick, coughing and spitting blood he was still able to open an incredible 29-minute lead over the next closest competitor! Driving in the only manner that he knew, flat out on the edge, he left parts of his car all along the Italian countryside. The Prince’s Ferrari slowly came apart loosing first the hood and then a front fender. Soon the driver's seat came loose and was shortly replaced with a sack of oranges and still he drove on. Knowing that he was dying and that this might be his last chance for a victory he would not, could not quit. When he reached Maranello his appearance shocked Enzo Ferrari, who begged him to quit even at the cost of denying Ferrari his first Mille Miglia victory. Some thought that he was on a suicide mission to die at the wheel of a race car rather than in a hospital. Finally with the brakes on his car failing while still leading the race the rear suspension upright cracked. He had driven the little Ferrari as fast as he could, as long as he could, and had it not failed nothing on this earth could have taken this last great victory from his grasp. His race over he stopped his car by the side of the road, exhausted he was lifted from his car by a local priest and put to bed.
It was several days later that Prince Troubetskoy learned that it was his own Ferrari the Nuvolari had been given for his ride in the Mille Miglia. The Prince was even more shocked when he was informed that he was being publicly thanked for kindly giving Nuvolari what was expected to be his last ride in the Mille Miglia. The Prince never forgave Ferrari for his indiscretion and even after the Ferrari Factory refurbished his car he remained bitter.
Sadly the 1948 Mille Miglia turned out to be Nuvolari’s last major race .. This man of small physical stature had the heart of a giant. Those who competed with him on the tracks of Europe knew that they would not see his likes again. It was said that Nuvolari had wanted to die in the sport that he loved so much. This wish was denied and on August 11th, 1953, 9 months after suffering a paralyzing stroke he passed away. As was his wish he was buried in his race uniform, consisting of his famous yellow jersey and blue trousers. The Italian nation and the world of motor sports continues to mourn the death of the greatest driver the world would ever see!
[p][Edited by Michael Müller on 12-11-2000]
#18
fines
-
- 9,647 posts
- Joined: September 00
Member
Posted 04 December 2000 - 21:15
Wow, Barbara Hutton was Troubetskoy's wife? Anyone knows the offspring of another liaison of this woman, with a Danish (or Hungarian or whatever) aristocrat? Ten points to the first correct answer...
#19
jarama
-
- 1,129 posts
- Joined: September 00
Member
Posted 04 December 2000 - 22:10
Michael,
did include his race uniform the famous tortoise symbol, I suppose?
did include his race uniform the famous tortoise symbol, I suppose?
Advertisement
#20
David McKinney
-
- 14,156 posts
- Joined: November 00
Member
Posted 04 December 2000 - 22:26
How does Count von Haugwitz Reventlow sound?
And wasn't she also married at one time to 'Dominican playboy' Porfirio Rubirosa, who raced - and I use the word advisedly - Ferraris in the mid 50s?
And wasn't she also married at one time to 'Dominican playboy' Porfirio Rubirosa, who raced - and I use the word advisedly - Ferraris in the mid 50s?
#21
Michael Müller
-
- 1,181 posts
- Joined: November 00
Member
Posted 04 December 2000 - 23:04
Fines, with which money do you think a whiterussian emigrant with - formerly - empty pockets could run a team like the Scuderia Inter?
Jarama, most probably yes.
David, Reventlow - and the Hutton tradition of spending money for racing goes on ....!
By the way, here another photo of Tazio at the 1948 Mille Miglia, bonnet and left front fender already missing ...
.jpg)
[p][Edited by Michael Müller on 12-11-2000]
Jarama, most probably yes.
David, Reventlow - and the Hutton tradition of spending money for racing goes on ....!
By the way, here another photo of Tazio at the 1948 Mille Miglia, bonnet and left front fender already missing ...
[p][Edited by Michael Müller on 12-11-2000]
#22
fines
-
- 9,647 posts
- Joined: September 00
Member
Posted 04 December 2000 - 23:24
David, Michael: Sorry, no points yet - I wanted the name of the offspring! 
David, which nationality was the count?
And Michael, I always thought the "Prince" title was a fake, wasn't it?
David, which nationality was the count?
And Michael, I always thought the "Prince" title was a fake, wasn't it?
#23
Michael Müller
-
- 1,181 posts
- Joined: November 00
Member
Posted 04 December 2000 - 23:38
Fines, no, Troubetskoy really was a prince. He was related to the Romanov tsar family (don't know exactly how), and his family had to leave Russia after the October revolution more or less with empty hands.
#24
jarama
-
- 1,129 posts
- Joined: September 00
Member
Posted 05 December 2000 - 00:00
The story about Troubetskoy's family seems similar to that about the De Bagration's, related by Felix Muelas on the thread "Jorge de Bagration".
#25
David McKinney
-
- 14,156 posts
- Joined: November 00
Member
Posted 05 December 2000 - 06:22
Fines
OK then, Lance Reventlow
OK then, Lance Reventlow
#26
David McKinney
-
- 14,156 posts
- Joined: November 00
Member
Posted 05 December 2000 - 06:23
Fines
OK then, Lance Reventlow
and I think his father was Danish
OK then, Lance Reventlow
and I think his father was Danish
#27
Yves
-
- 183 posts
- Joined: October 00
Member
Posted 05 December 2000 - 10:49
Great thread, Tazio is definitevely my heroe ;)
What about Neubauer's relation of first common race with Nuvolari and Varzi ? Neubauer has not always related the real truth
Neubauer says it was at Alessandria during the Coppa Bodino 1930. At the last lap, Varzi managed to throw Tazio's Alfa out with a direct contact on his rear wheel ?
He also says that such "direct" elimination" of competitor was usual in italian racing at that time
and Nuvolari didn't complain about Varzi behaviour but at the opposite congratulate him for his win !
What must we think about that ?
Y.
What about Neubauer's relation of first common race with Nuvolari and Varzi ? Neubauer has not always related the real truth
Neubauer says it was at Alessandria during the Coppa Bodino 1930. At the last lap, Varzi managed to throw Tazio's Alfa out with a direct contact on his rear wheel ?
He also says that such "direct" elimination" of competitor was usual in italian racing at that time
and Nuvolari didn't complain about Varzi behaviour but at the opposite congratulate him for his win !What must we think about that ?
Y.
#28
Ray Bell
-
- 80,270 posts
- Joined: December 99
Member
Posted 05 December 2000 - 12:45
Maybe Michael Schumacher studied the Neubauer book when he was with Mercedes....
#29
fines
-
- 9,647 posts
- Joined: September 00
Member
Posted 05 December 2000 - 21:34
Proclaiming the World Championship leader with ten points after round one, David McKinney!!! 
#30
mhferrari
-
- 3,238 posts
- Joined: August 00
Member
Posted 05 December 2000 - 23:52
His driving shirt, had a T with an N over it, so it was encorporated with each other. This I noticed on the Speedvision show, The Silver Arrows of Zwickau (pardon me for the poor German spelling), which is about Auto Union, albeit in the 1930s.
#31
mhferrari
-
- 3,238 posts
- Joined: August 00
Member
Posted 05 December 2000 - 23:56
Pardon me again, I forgot of the driver input, I would say Nuvolari took a lot of turns without braking, he probably used the best throttle modulation (in easier words, control)and wrestled the control like a gorilla.
#32
oldtimer
-
- 1,291 posts
- Joined: October 00
Member
Posted 06 December 2000 - 04:37
Surtees book gives a postscript to Michael Muller's wonderful account of the 1948 effort. Apparently, Enzo commented to Nuvolari, "Don't worry, we shall win next year. The reply was,"At our age, there aren't many days like this left".
Thanks all for the pics, which were all new to me. I DO hope we are going to see some of the little man making the Auto Union look so large
Thanks all for the pics, which were all new to me. I DO hope we are going to see some of the little man making the Auto Union look so large
#33
Michael Müller
-
- 1,181 posts
- Joined: November 00
Member
Posted 06 December 2000 - 10:28
Okay Oldtimer, here they are:
First 3 are from Donington 1938, the other 2 from Monza same year.
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
I also found something about the MG, it was a Magnette, and the event was in fact the Tourist Trophy 1933.
First 3 are from Donington 1938, the other 2 from Monza same year.
I also found something about the MG, it was a Magnette, and the event was in fact the Tourist Trophy 1933.
#34
Ray Bell
-
- 80,270 posts
- Joined: December 99
Member
Posted 06 December 2000 - 10:55
Meant to post about this at the time, yes it was the Tourist Trophy, a one-off drive for Tazio and there's some interesting stuff about the car, which came to Australia but I've forgotten, something about bigger fuel tanks etc.
Anyway, the Magnette was a supercharged 1087cc straight six, the sort of thing I'd love to see as a road car today.
Little jewels with a lot of grunt and a sharp exhaust note.
Anyway, the Magnette was a supercharged 1087cc straight six, the sort of thing I'd love to see as a road car today.
Little jewels with a lot of grunt and a sharp exhaust note.
#35
oldtimer
-
- 1,291 posts
- Joined: October 00
Member
Posted 06 December 2000 - 20:02
Thanks muchly, Michael. 3 of those are new to me. Love that Donington shot of him pearing out around the scuttle for a sight line. Also pleased to notice the mechanic in the MG ride could still muster a big smile after staring at the floorboards for so long! Or did he simply shut his eyes?
A technical detail about the MG lurking at the back of my head is that it had a pre-selector gearbox, the first that TN had ever driven.
A technical detail about the MG lurking at the back of my head is that it had a pre-selector gearbox, the first that TN had ever driven.
#36
Wolf
-
- 7,883 posts
- Joined: June 00
Member
Posted 08 December 2000 - 00:25
Oldimer, do you know hor these things (gear pre-selectors) worked?
Can anyone tell me more about abovementioned Ferrari 166SC (technical specs &c), or point me in the direction where I could find it (prefferably on the net)?
Can anyone tell me more about abovementioned Ferrari 166SC (technical specs &c), or point me in the direction where I could find it (prefferably on the net)?
#37
Ray Bell
-
- 80,270 posts
- Joined: December 99
Member
Posted 08 December 2000 - 00:51
Probably the best thing to do with this question, Wolf, is to take it to desmo on the Tech forum.
Briefly, the gearbox was an epicyclic arrangement with engagement by hydraulicly operated multi-plate wet clutches as used in the conventional epicyclic automatic transmissions of today.
The name 'pre-selector' comes from the method of changing gears, which is by moving the lever to the desired gear locations, then, when ready, depressing the clutch pedal.
I don't know how this function took place, but I do know that they were terribly heavy, in the British tradition, even though the housings were usually cast aluminium. They were robust, however, and popular with the Brits for competition cars right into the fifties.
Armstrong Siddeley cars were usually fitted with them.
Briefly, the gearbox was an epicyclic arrangement with engagement by hydraulicly operated multi-plate wet clutches as used in the conventional epicyclic automatic transmissions of today.
The name 'pre-selector' comes from the method of changing gears, which is by moving the lever to the desired gear locations, then, when ready, depressing the clutch pedal.
I don't know how this function took place, but I do know that they were terribly heavy, in the British tradition, even though the housings were usually cast aluminium. They were robust, however, and popular with the Brits for competition cars right into the fifties.
Armstrong Siddeley cars were usually fitted with them.
#38
oldtimer
-
- 1,291 posts
- Joined: October 00
Member
Posted 08 December 2000 - 02:15
Thanks for getting me off the hook, Ray. I've heard the words, but still don't understand about epicyclic gears and that other stuff. All I knew was the capacity to select a gear before using the clutch.
In the world of GP cars, the Lago-Talbots of the late '40s and early '50s were fitted with pre-selector gearboxes
In the world of GP cars, the Lago-Talbots of the late '40s and early '50s were fitted with pre-selector gearboxes
#39
Wolf
-
- 7,883 posts
- Joined: June 00
Member
Posted 08 December 2000 - 02:22
I'm in the same boat as you, oldimer. I saw a TV piece on german car collector having two Rileys with gear pre-selectors. One of them was supposed to belong to Mike Hawthorn, and the man himself had it rebuilt...
Advertisement
#40
Ray Bell
-
- 80,270 posts
- Joined: December 99
Member
Posted 08 December 2000 - 02:53
Epicyclic means that there is an outer gear and an inner gear, with planetary gears in a cage in between them, but beyond that you'll have to use your imagination. One way of getting practical experience with them is to tear a Sturmey Archer pushbike hub apart, they have one epicyclic gearset and by taking the drive from two different points achieve a low and a high ratio. Locking it up is direct drive for the third...
In the Wilson pre-selector boxes, which were very heavy despite alloy casings, there are hydraulic multi-plate oil-bathed clutches to take the drive, with power-robbing pumps to make these work, of course. The driver moves the lever to the position of the gear he wants next, and by some means (don't ask me!) the next depressing of the clutch pedal changes the box to that gear.
They were popular in Armstrong Siddeleys, and my brother has one in a 1938 Daimler, which he has taken apart.
When I was at school, one of the buses used on the run when the newer buses were out of action was equipped with one, but for the life of me I can't remember what make of bus it was... obviously British. When it was really bad, a wartime Chev was used, and the driver used to let me change gears in that for him. Joy!
I'll start a new thread with a story from my Newsletter which encompasses these gearboxes - at the beginning. It's an interesting story, anyway, as told by a real oldtimer, as you'll see...[p][Edited by Ray Bell on 12-08-2000]
In the Wilson pre-selector boxes, which were very heavy despite alloy casings, there are hydraulic multi-plate oil-bathed clutches to take the drive, with power-robbing pumps to make these work, of course. The driver moves the lever to the position of the gear he wants next, and by some means (don't ask me!) the next depressing of the clutch pedal changes the box to that gear.
They were popular in Armstrong Siddeleys, and my brother has one in a 1938 Daimler, which he has taken apart.
When I was at school, one of the buses used on the run when the newer buses were out of action was equipped with one, but for the life of me I can't remember what make of bus it was... obviously British. When it was really bad, a wartime Chev was used, and the driver used to let me change gears in that for him. Joy!
I'll start a new thread with a story from my Newsletter which encompasses these gearboxes - at the beginning. It's an interesting story, anyway, as told by a real oldtimer, as you'll see...[p][Edited by Ray Bell on 12-08-2000]
#41
oldtimer
-
- 1,291 posts
- Joined: October 00
Member
Posted 08 December 2000 - 02:54
Totally off topic, but mention of the Hawthorn Riley couldn't pass without noting that he wore a tweed jacket when racing it. Pretty creased at the arms with all the action.
Nothing to do with our hero, unless you remember that JMH sometimes used to make SM pedal pretty hard (English understatement).
Nothing to do with our hero, unless you remember that JMH sometimes used to make SM pedal pretty hard (English understatement).
#42
Michael Müller
-
- 1,181 posts
- Joined: November 00
Member
Posted 08 December 2000 - 09:58
Originally posted by Wolf
Can anyone tell me more about abovementioned Ferrari 166SC (technical specs &c)
In order to comment the 1948 Spyder Corsa, one has to go back to 1947 or even earlier. The first Ferrari engine started on the drawing board of Gioachino Colombo as 1500 cc V12 as early as end of 1945. These key figures were fixed by Enzi Ferrari’s request for a 12-cylinder engine (he admired the Packard V12), and the actual voiturette formula with 1500 cc supercharged engines. The first 2 cars had been finished by May 1947, both 1.5 litre atmospherical V12, one as full-bodied roadster (# 01C), the other as spyder with cycle wings (# 02C). The engine, which was a all-new construction, initially was a desaster. The first prototype in 1946 produced only 60 hp @ 5600 rpm on the testbed, and when revved, it broke. Development continued, and when introducing the tipo 125 in 1947 118 hp @ 6800 rpm were claimed by Ferrari, although I don’t believe the actual engines produced more than 100 hp.
The 125 was a pure competition car entered in the 1500 cc sports car class with drivers like Cortese, Farina, and of course Nuvolari during 1947.
The “125” (1500 cc) engine size was chosen to use it also for GP racing by fitting a supercharger, but in atmosperical specification the engine was simply not competitive, as Ferrari was more interested in overall victories instead of class wins, so the engine was enlarged to 1900 cc (tipo 159), with power output rising to 125 hp @ 7000.
Then the FIA announced 2 new series for 1948, one was the European F2 championship, the other the “International Sports”. Both series were for 2 litre cars (with 500 cc s/c also allowed in F2). The F2 regulations required open-wheelers, but nothing was said about the number of seats, the International Sports series of course was for sports cars with fenders, lamps, and so on. Although # 02C in the meantime had been rebodied also with a full roadster body, Ferrari took up this idea again, and the famous Spyer Corsa was born. A hybrid, suitable for sports car events as well as F2 races, where simply the cycle fenders and the lamps had been removed. However, at events where a codriver was required, like the Mille Miglia and the Targa Florio, the SC was a rather uncomfortable car, as the 2 seats were cramped into a cockpit designed more for 1 ½ only.
Exactly the same car (# 010I) as driven by Tazio in the 1948 Mille Miglia below is shown in F2 specification, driven by Clemente Biondetti at the European GP at Bern 1948.
Over the winter 1947/48 the engine again was enlarged to the maximum allowed 2 litres, which was the birth of the tipo 166. Power figures vary depending on source, but probably was between 130 and 150 hp, depending on compression rate and used fuel, and it is also reported that there had been “good engines” and “less good ones”, with the latter ones probably assembled on Mondays.
7 cars were manufactured for the 1948 season, plus # 01C rebodied and renumbered. 2 cars were sold to the Besana brothers (# 002C and # 004C), 2 others to Scuderia Inter, a kind of joint venture of Price Igor Troubetskoy and Count Bruno Sterzi (# 006I and # 010I, which was the rebodied # 01C “grand mother”), one (# 016I) went to Luigi Chinetti, and the remaining # 008I, # 012I, and #014I used by the Scuderia Ferrari itself.
The cars had been very successful during the 1948 season, but nevertheless were only a provisional solution. During 1948 Ferrari developed the tipo 166 MM, a full bodied roadster for sports car events, and parallel the tipo 125/166 Corsa, a real monoposto eligible for F1 with a 1.5 litre supercharged engine, but also for F2 by swapping the engine against the 2 litre atmosperical version – a rather easy conversion as both engines had the same exterior measurements. Some 2 litre engines also had been fitted with a supercharger to run in a few Formula Libre events like the South American Temporada.
At the end of the 1948 season, the 166 SC’s of the Scuderia Ferrari and also that of the Grupo Inter had been sold to privateers, and up to the early 50s they could be spotted sporadically at some F2 races, the Mille Miglia, and some minor events like hill climbs. Very interesting point is that the tipo 166 SC probably was a very fruitful car, as out of the 8 cars built 9 have survived …!
#43
oldtimer
-
- 1,291 posts
- Joined: October 00
Member
Posted 08 December 2000 - 20:59
Thanks Michael for another great post.
A story from TN's childhood. He came from a wealthy family. and one day was kicked by one of the family's horse. Tazio's father threw a gold coin under the horse, and told his son it was his to keep should he retrieve it. The boy was immediately richer.
A story from TN's childhood. He came from a wealthy family. and one day was kicked by one of the family's horse. Tazio's father threw a gold coin under the horse, and told his son it was his to keep should he retrieve it. The boy was immediately richer.
#44
ghinzani
-
- 2,027 posts
- Joined: October 01
Member
Posted 18 June 2009 - 01:40
Did I read somewhere he wore overalls that were yellow on the top half and blue on the bottom? I often wondered if Brundles 1985 overalls were an homage to the great man or just a lucky coincidence?
#45
Tim Murray
-
- 24,608 posts
- Joined: May 02
Moderator
Posted 18 June 2009 - 09:01
Not overalls, I think, but his famous yellow jersey and blue trousers (see Michael Müller's post on Nuvolari's last Mille Miglia earlier in this thread).
#46
dretceterini
-
- 2,991 posts
- Joined: May 02
Member
Posted 18 June 2009 - 17:25
From the same book, and definitely another age. 'In the 1947 Mille Miglia, Nuvolari drove an open 1500cc Cisitalia. He was in the lead in torrential rain until ignition troubles forced him to slow down. He finished 2nd to a 2.9l Alfa driven by Biondetti who commented, 'I didn't win. I merely finished first."'
To say that after a 1000 mile drive says an awful lot...
The Cisitalia was only 1089cc and 60 horsepower, and would have won, if only the ignition wouldn't have been swamped by the downpour of rain.
